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Space: The Final Frontier

What is Space-GAF's assessment of Robert Zubrin's Mars Direct plan?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Direct

Long story short, it's a plan that uses current technology to get people on Mars within about 15 years.

I saw a really cool documentary about it last weekend (The Mars Underground, you can watch the whole thing on Youtube). Cool movie but it was a huge bummer when it made me realize a manned trip to Mars will probably not happen in our lifetime. =\
 

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
The problem is our current technology to head out into space is based upon technology that is 50 years old.
 

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
Oh yeah. Going to take a photo of Venus, Mars and Saturn this evening. They've been in a pretty close cluster over the past few weeks in the southern hemisphere sky, with Mars and Saturn gradually dipping to the level that Venus has begun moving towards in the horizon an hour or so after the sun sets. The pictures may not be as spectacular as they would be elsewhere based upon my own camera specifications, but it is still a humbling experience.

I still remember whipping out my video camera with 70x optic zoom on Jupiter upon its opposition (closest approach from our planet) last year and seeing the four Galilean moons shining beside it. That was an experience I'll never forget.
 
Is Venus that bright yellow object that's been hanging around for the last couple of weeks?

upon writing this question i realised the answer is almost certainly yes...
 
Hey guys, quick question concerning SETI, I figure this would be a good place to ask, SETI has been around for a few decades now, what kind of progress has been made.

Obviously not in the sense of have we made contact, I know that answer, but how much of the sky have we surveyed, how many local star systems (relatively close ones) if any, do we have left... I'd just like to get a feel for what percentage have we surveyed and came up negative on.
 

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
Neverender said:
Is Venus that bright yellow object that's been hanging around for the last couple of weeks?

upon writing this question i realised the answer is almost certainly yes...
Yes. Everything is upside down for me so Venus sets in the western sky from the north, whereas (I believe), Venus sets in the western sky from the south for you guys in the northern hemisphere. The two brightest objects above it are Mars and Saturn respectively. Because of Venus' brightness, Mars only appears as dim as Saturn does.. otherwise you can usually tell where Mars is due to its dull red/orange hue and it tends to be a bit brighter than a majority of the stars in the sky.

The only other planet that tends to rival the brightness from Venus is Jupiter and that doesn't rise until 5-6 hours after Venus "sets" as of late.

innervision961 said:
Hey guys, quick question concerning SETI, I figure this would be a good place to ask, SETI has been around for a few decades now, what kind of progress has been made.

Obviously not in the sense of have we made contact, I know that answer, but how much of the sky have we surveyed, how many local star systems (relatively close ones) if any, do we have left... I'd just like to get a feel for what percentage have we surveyed and came up negative on.
SETI only sends out radiowaves from what I can recall and no real progess has been made outside of the Wow! signal. The problem with surveying space from our perspective is that the further you branch out from our planet, the more depth you come across which means that the direction you have projected towards becomes more narrow. The simple fact is that there is no real percentage of what we have covered because the vastness of space is much too daunting to our current technology; the only galaxy we can see from our naked eye is a single one (the closest to the Milky Way, the Andromeda) compared to the Hubble Deep Field which shows how many galaxies are contained within a tiny insignificant "black" section of our night sky.
 
speedpop said:
Yes. Everything is upside down for me so Venus sets in the western sky from the north, whereas (I believe), Venus sets in the western sky from the south for you guys in the northern hemisphere. The two brightest objects above it are Mars and Saturn respectively. Because of Venus' brightness, Mars only appears as dim as Saturn does.. otherwise you can usually tell where Mars is due to its dull red/orange hue and it tends to be a bit brighter than a majority of the stars in the sky.

The only other planet that tends to rival the brightness from Venus is Jupiter and that doesn't rise until 5-6 hours after Venus "sets" as of late.


.
Hmm that's good to know, I might take a look later. I'm in aus btw.
 
midnight in Finland, i'm thinking of going out to check out the Perseids. (fun fact: perse means ass in finnish). too bad i live in the most violent city... will probably get stabbed in 20 seconds as i step out from my flat. ohh well, for science!

last time i saw the Ass meteors properly was in 2004. it was completely mind-blowing. i chilled out in my parents' backyard in a hammock while listening to Godspeed You Black Emperor (perfect stargazing music), and counted close to a hundred meteors. some were so bright they lit up the whole night sky. fucking stunning.
 

noah111

Still Alive
Decided to make this quick video in Celestia, travelling around the galaxy and beyond. Nice earth dive near the end too. Flying and controlling speed isn't as easy as I make it look! :p

Some shots too, love this program;

4898673683_e70a3369f1_o.png


4898671953_60e16ff29a_b.jpg


4898671725_8f658a2e32_b.jpg


Europa/Io/Ganymede foreground Jupiter shots;

4898672213_3f72dfc9ec_b.jpg


4898672709_31ef7f8032_b.jpg


4899265460_0643ed639e_b.jpg


Definitely recommend it. Might be hard to comprehend/process how to work the program at first, bu once you do it's pretty awesome, if not just to fly around at lightspeed.
 

Melchiah

Member
astroturfing said:
midnight in Finland, i'm thinking of going out to check out the Perseids. (fun fact: perse means ass in finnish). too bad i live in the most violent city... will probably get stabbed in 20 seconds as i step out from my flat. ohh well, for science!

Helsinki? I live there, and in one of the most notorious neighborhoods, Kallio. Never had any problems during the two years I've lived there.
 

noah111

Still Alive
Naked Snake said:
Never heard of Celestia before... now that is the kind of thing to make me want to upgrade my computer.
Totally, best part is it doesn't require much. You can run it all great on a 1ghz/1gb ram laptop, just not with super hi res textures like that but still decent looking. I'd definitely recommend trying it out.
 

Melchiah

Member
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/08/24/when-worlds-really-do-collide/

When worlds really do collide!

When I was a kid, one of my favorite movies was "When Worlds Collide", about a rogue planet that collides with Earth, killing everyone (except for a few who escape on rockets).

Science fiction, right? Right?

Yeah, maybe not so much. It turns out, worlds really do collide. And we can see the shrapnel.

... ... ...

As the two stars orbit each other, they shed mass through a stellar wind, like the Sun’s solar wind. As they lose mass they get closer together, and that changes their gravitational effect on any planets that might orbit them (and we have detected planets orbiting tight binary stars). This shifts the planets’ orbits, and no good can come of that. In fact, as the orbits shift so much they can cross each other, and can cause the planets to collide.

The energy in such a collision would dwarf the sweatiest nightmares of any Hollywood writer — or religiously-motivated apocalyptic preacher, for that matter. The two planets, each massing sextillions of tons, would ram each other at speeds of 20 or more kilometers per second. The energy released would be trillions of times that of all our nuclear weapons combined.

What would that look like if you were standing on one of those planets?

Imagine: the twin suns, so close they appear to almost touch, set toward your western horizon. As dark rises to the East, so does the rim of a vast disk. After an hour, it clears the horizon: a disk of light in the heavens so bright you have to squint, and so big it spans half the sky. It’s a rogue planet, and only a year before it was barely more than a brilliant point of light in the sky. Now it looms so large you feel you could fall into it.

A strong earthquake shakes the ground as they have for the past few days; the result of the titanic tidal stress induced on your planet from the other’s gravity. On the other planet, with your naked eye, you can see networks of hundreds of massive cracks lit dull red from magma, the tides from your home world stressing and tearing apart the interloper. The disk grows as you watch, blotting out the majority of the sky by the time it sets a few hours later.

The suns rise, and happily you’re on the side of the planet facing away from the location where the two worlds will touch. You’re spared the actual sight of the catastrophe.

Not that it matters, really.

When the shock wave from the collision finally reaches you, it marches across the landscape like a mighty god, like an angry god, like a hungry god, destroying everything underneath. What follows is an earthquake literally too large to measure: one that rips out the top hundred kilometers of the planet, totally removing the crust, and utterly wiping out billions of years of planetary and biological evolution.

It takes hours, but when it’s done, the two planets are gone. They are smashed, pulverized, surrounded by an expanding cloud of billions of gigatons of vaporized rock that’s sent sleeting out into space. Some time later, what’s left is a white-hot sphere — the merged remains of the cores of the two worlds — surrounded by glowing debris, boulders the size of moons, and enough dust to choke the entire planetary system for millions of years.This dust forms a disk around the star… and a few hundred light years away, we would see it as a blip of extra infrared light.

Perhaps this scenario lacks the hero-destroys-the-evil-villain of a good space opera, but it does have the advantage of being real. Still, "When Worlds Collide" was pretty close! And "Star Wars" had the right idea… but the wrong planet. Alderaan was Princess Leia’s home, which was utterly destroyed by the Death Star. Tatooine, however, was a planet orbiting two stars apparently in a close orbit… and now we know how that turns out.
 
Melchiah said:
Imagine: the twin suns, so close they appear to almost touch, set toward your western horizon. As dark rises to the East, so does the rim of a vast disk. After an hour, it clears the horizon: a disk of light in the heavens so bright you have to squint, and so big it spans half the sky. It’s a rogue planet, and only a year before it was barely more than a brilliant point of light in the sky. Now it looms so large you feel you could fall into it.

A strong earthquake shakes the ground as they have for the past few days; the result of the titanic tidal stress induced on your planet from the other’s gravity. On the other planet, with your naked eye, you can see networks of hundreds of massive cracks lit dull red from magma, the tides from your home world stressing and tearing apart the interloper. The disk grows as you watch, blotting out the majority of the sky by the time it sets a few hours later.

The suns rise, and happily you’re on the side of the planet facing away from the location where the two worlds will touch. You’re spared the actual sight of the catastrophe.

Not that it matters, really.

When the shock wave from the collision finally reaches you, it marches across the landscape like a mighty god, like an angry god, like a hungry god, destroying everything underneath. What follows is an earthquake literally too large to measure: one that rips out the top hundred kilometers of the planet, totally removing the crust, and utterly wiping out billions of years of planetary and biological evolution.
Harrowing =\
 
wow @ that video...

O________________________________________O indeed.

thanks for posting that, really reminds us how precious our existance is. any one of those could cause some serious devastation. good thing we have Jupiter to protect us with its powerful gravity.
 
astroturfing said:
wow @ that video...

O________________________________________O indeed.

thanks for posting that, really reminds us how precious our existance is. any one of those could cause some serious devastation. good thing we have Jupiter to protect us with its powerful gravity.
Your post reminds me of something. Jupiter has no surface and is entirely composed of varying densities of gas, right? Also, it doesn't have a real atmosphere to burn up space debris, correct? If those two things are true, then why don't asteroids and other objects simply pass "into" Jupiter...or something other than exploding upon impact?
 

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
So awesome.

abstract alien said:
Your post reminds me of something. Jupiter has no surface and is entirely composed of varying densities of gas, right? Also, it doesn't have a real atmosphere to burn up space debris, correct? If those two things are true, then why don't asteroids and other objects simply pass "into" Jupiter...or something other than exploding upon impact?
I've always wondered about this too, and the same situation with other gas giants. Most impacts seem to resemble a flash of light when they enter. It sounds stupid to say this, but it reminds me of the videos of lightning on Earth when viewed from orbit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo6LHljBKW8
 

Treo360

Member
abstract alien said:
Your post reminds me of something. Jupiter has no surface and is entirely composed of varying densities of gas, right? Also, it doesn't have a real atmosphere to burn up space debris, correct? If those two things are true, then why don't asteroids and other objects simply pass "into" Jupiter...or something other than exploding upon impact?

Because like many things it still has mass, and its Atmosphere is very real.
 

Extollere

Sucks at poetry
abstract alien said:
Your post reminds me of something. Jupiter has no surface and is entirely composed of varying densities of gas, right? Also, it doesn't have a real atmosphere to burn up space debris, correct? If those two things are true, then why don't asteroids and other objects simply pass "into" Jupiter...or something other than exploding upon impact?

An atmosphere is mostly just gas held to the surface by gravity. Jupiter has an atmosphere. Shit can get burned up in it.
 
speedpop said:
I've always wondered about this too, and the same situation with other gas giants. Most impacts seem to resemble a flash of light when they enter. It sounds stupid to say this, but it reminds me of the videos of lightning on Earth when viewed from orbit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo6LHljBKW8
They really do honestly. That whole situation always puzzled me but...

Treo360 said:
Because like many things it still has mass, and its Atmosphere is very real.
Extollere said:
An atmosphere is mostly just gas held to the surface by gravity. Jupiter has an atmosphere. Shit can get burned up in it.
...I guess we have our answer right here. I never knew Jupiter has a strong enough atmosphere to actually burn up anything and always thought that its impacts were some sort of reaction between chemicals in the actual layers. Thanks for the clarification, I love this stuff.
 

owlbeak

Member
What is the atmosphere composed of? More of less, Jupiter's composition is nearly an exact copy of the Sun. There is about 82 % hydrogen, 18 % helium and traces of nearly all other elements. Most of this is in the form of molecular compounds, ammonia, methane, molecular hydrogen and water. The upper areas of the zones are believed to be ammonia ice crystals. Liquid ammonia probably floats below that.

The entire atmospheric structure is about 1000 km thick, but there does not appear to be any distinct boundary between the atmosphere and what lies below. Apparently it just gets denser until it reaches a total liquid state.
The denser it gets, the hotter an object entering that atmosphere would become, and thus it burns up or explodes.
 

Melchiah

Member
http://www.news.com.au/technology/s...rce-of-100-bombs/story-e6frfro0-1225909999465
Sun storm to hit with 'force of 100m bombs'

AFTER 10 years of comparative slumber, the sun is waking up - and it's got astronomers on full alert.

This week several US media outlets reported that NASA was warning the massive flare that caused spectacular light shows on Earth earlier this month was just a precursor to a massive solar storm building that had the potential to wipe out the entire planet's power grid.

NASA has since rebutted those reports, saying it could come "100 years away or just 100 days", but an Australian astronomer says the space community is betting on the sooner scenario rather than the latter.

Despite its rebuttal, NASA's been watching out for this storm since 2006 and reports from the US this week claim the storms could hit on that most Hollywood of disaster dates - 2012.

Similar storms back in 1859 and 1921 caused worldwide chaos, wiping out telegraph wires on a massive scale.

The 2012 storm has the potential to be even more disruptive.

"The general consensus among general astronomers (and certainly solar astronomers) is that this coming Solar maximum (2012 but possibly later into 2013) will be the most violent in 100 years," astronomy lecturer and columnist Dave Reneke said.

"A bold statement and one taken seriously by those it will affect most, namely airline companies, communications companies and anyone working with modern GPS systems.

"They can even trip circuit breakers and knock out orbiting satellites, as has already been done this year."

Regardless, the point astronomers are making is it doesn't matter if the next Solar Max isn't the worst in history, or even as bad as the 1859 storms.

It's the fact that there hasn't been one since the mid-80s. Commodore had just launched the Amiga and the only digital storm making the news was Tetris.

No one really knows what effect the 2012-2013 Solar Max will have on today's digital-reliant society.

Dr Richard Fisher, director of NASA’s Heliophysics division, told Mr Reneke the super storm would hit like "a bolt of lightning”, causing catastrophic consequences for the world’s health, emergency services and national security unless precautions are taken.

US government officials earlier this year took part in a "tabletop exercise" in Boulder, Colorado, to map out what might happen if the Earth was hit with a storm as intense as the 1859 and 1921 storms.

The 1859 storm was of a similar size to that predicted by NASA to hit within the next three years – one of decreased activity, but more powerful eruptions.

NASA said that a recent report by the National Academy of Sciences found that if a similar storm occurred today, it could cause “$1 to 2 trillion in damages to society's high-tech infrastructure and require four to 10 years for complete recovery”.

Staff at the Space Weather Prediction Center in Colorado, which hosted the exercise, said with our reliance on satellite technology, such an event could hit the Earth with the magnitude of a global hurricane or earthquake.

... ... ...
 

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
I'd just like to advise people that the above article was posted on news.com.au with the headline of "End of times, Hollywood was right - 2012" before they changed it to something a bit more moderate after the lunch-break crowd stopped hitting the article.

Though that still doesn't excuse the fact that a geomagnetic storm with a huge magnitude that most astronomers and cosmologists seem to be predicting will definitely screw something up.
 

Orgun

Member
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_1747.html

477733main_image_1747_946-710.jpg


A Strange Ring Galaxy
Is this one galaxy or two? Astronomer Art Hoag first asked this question when he chanced upon this unusual extragalactic object. On the outside is a ring dominated by bright blue stars, while near the center lies a ball of much redder stars that are likely much older. Between the two is a gap that appears almost completely dark. How Hoag's Object formed remains unknown, although similar objects have been identified and collectively labeled as a form of ring galaxy. Genesis hypotheses include a galaxy collision billions of years ago and the gravitational effect of a central bar that has since vanished.

This image, taken by the Hubble Space Telescope in July 2001, reveals unprecedented details of Hoag's Object and may yield a better understanding. Hoag's Object spans about 100,000 light years and lies about 600 million light years away toward the constellation of the Snake (Serpens). Coincidentally, visible in the gap (at about one o'clock) is yet another ring galaxy that likely lies far in the distance.

Image Credit: NASA, R. Lucas (STScI/AURA)
 
I actually ran across this today while I was using Netflix on my 360. They've finally added the complete collection of Cosmos for instant play(even for parties on the 360). It's the absolute primer for anyone with interest in astronomy, heavenly bodies, and science in general.

I actually checked this series a little over a month ago and it was not available so I'm assuming that it's addition to instant play was pretty recent.

http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/Cosm...85d36_0_srl&strkid=419043578_0_0&trkid=438381
 

UrbanRats

Member
astroturfing said:
midnight in Finland, i'm thinking of going out to check out the Perseids. (fun fact: perse means ass in finnish). too bad i live in the most violent city... will probably get stabbed in 20 seconds as i step out from my flat. ohh well, for science!

last time i saw the Ass meteors properly was in 2004. it was completely mind-blowing. i chilled out in my parents' backyard in a hammock while listening to Godspeed You Black Emperor (perfect stargazing music), and counted close to a hundred meteors. some were so bright they lit up the whole night sky. fucking stunning.
Way to do it, man. :D
 

Staccat0

Fail out bailed
anybody reading the new MAry Roach book about space travel?
Its pretty sweet. I never thought about how difficult pooping in space would be
 
Ben2749 said:
Why does feeling so insignificant feel so damn good?

because realizing our insignificance actually makes us great. we can imagine a universe with our brains. and our brains have more neurons and synapses than a galaxy has stars... way more.

your brain interpreting this text right now has a more impressive structure than any galaxy. IMO.
 

Asbel

Member
Horsebite said:
The denser it gets, the hotter an object entering that atmosphere would become, and thus it burns up or explodes.
Yep, the comet explosion in Jupiter's atmosphere is also theorized to happen in Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_2009_impact
http://www.psi.edu/projects/siberia/siberia.html

Woah! Isn't the conventional thought that the bright light @ the center is a cluster of stars? if im right either both those galaxies are in transition or there is something keeping that ring of stars away from that mass.
The conservation of angular momentum I'd think. Same thing keeping Earth away from the sun and our galaxy from the super massive black hole in the middle.
 
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