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Spring 2014 Tokyo MX, er, Anime |OT1.5| ORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORA

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Narag

Member
the "everyone wants his dick" is not that true . he has more than half the school that hate him ( for being a weed ) and aside from the tiny group of friend he has , nobody was nearly even close to him past friendship.
And no the girl with the ponytail in this episode doesn't count since she doesn't want his dick , just to recruit him for her cause.

I'll readily admit I missed the bracelet during the infodump (due to zoning out) but the visuals can't be denied even if they're not in line with the actual story which again makes it a fault of the adaptation if we're not meant to treat his interactions that way.

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Hell, the top three are from his POV. Third shot even apparently had some additional dialogue about his taking responsibility for the situation.
I guess this explains the VN bit too after looking at some fan translated material.
 
Confused how youre comparing him as the rival when the one behind the scene was doing all the strategizing and dueling...

All he did was help him pendulum summon which in this series is something that very few people know how to do including both the rival and our MC. Clearly the behind the scenes guy knows how it actually works for whatever reasons and helped the rival do it correctly because he couldn't possibly have known how to do it. After all the behind the scenes guy hired him to steal the cards not actually duel Yuya, the rival called an audible and decided to challenge him and take the cards for himself despite not knowing how they work. He's still/kaiba character in this story line behind the scenes guy is clearly the arc villain.
 

sonicmj1

Member
I haven't watched any more Mahouka, but I have one more question about the background.

Why is Tatsuya going to school? He clearly doesn't have anything he needs to learn. There's no way that magic school is mandatory, and even if it were, I'm sure the government would give him an exemption if he asked, given his feats in the intro to episode 1.
 

Jarmel

Banned
Haikyuu-4

I think this is the first sports anime I've ever watched and I'm enjoying the fuck out of this. The OST was pretty good this ep.
 

cnet128

Banned
Gokukoku no Brynhildr 4

Ahhhhh, that was a very nice way of resolving the cliffhanger from last episode.
I'd completely forgotten about the question of the enemy girl's second ability in the midst of all the other tantalising mysteries the series was teasing, and even if I had recalled it I doubt I would have been able to predict this, because who would have thought of the enemy's ability of all things coming to the rescue?

But her having the ability to turn back time actually makes perfect sense - it's a sufficiently broken power to explain why this girl's abilities are considered so much higher in rank than the other magic-users', and time manipulation isn't too much of a leap as an ability considering we already know someone who can see the future. Plus it even creates a clever solution to the other pressing question of how the hell they were going to avert Kana's vision of both of them dying when neither of them had any new information - by not averting it but then retconning those events straight out of the timeline. Well played all round!

Oh, and this solution also gave the MC the opportunity for a truly badass moment. Pity
the only person who remembers it died shortly afterwards
.

And now in this episode we have both an amazingly lewd hotspring scene (hot damn, Kazumi <3) and the introduction of a new magic-user whose powers are apparently even more broken than the last girl's. Can't wait to find out what those are!
 

Jintor

Member
The way Tatsuya says it is that if the people who aren't strong in magic use the excuse of equality.Then become blinded and try to completely change the system of creating top magicians for selfish reasons. Through those reasons they don't realize they are being manipulated by organizations like Blanche. Who has a perpetrator in the background that uses this excuse of equality in order to break down the military power of magicians for the country. Which will lead to an invasion of the country. And during this time magicians are held high since they are sole military power for nations, and if one nation loses it's power it will likely be invaded. Though discrimination is wrong you have to look in a wider perspective in that others may use those issues, in order to gain an advantage for manipulation through their emotions.

Fixed

Sounds a bit like mutant discrimination in Marvel, where the creators always try and relate it to racism but forget that, unlike people of different enthicities, mutants often legitimately have extremely destructive powers.

It's more like gun control, except the guns are people, which gets weird.
 
I haven't watched any more Mahouka, but I have one more question about the background.

Why is Tatsuya going to school? He clearly doesn't have anything he needs to learn. There's no way that magic school is mandatory, and even if it were, I'm sure the government would give him an exemption if he asked, given his feats in the intro to episode 1.

To be in close proximity to Miyuki since he's her guardian due to yotsuba guardian tradition, at least thats how I always understood it as after being current on the books
 
I'll readily admit I missed the bracelet during the infodump (due to zoning out) but the visuals can't be denied even if they're not in line with the actual story which again makes it a fault of the adaptation if we're not meant to treat his interactions that way.



Hell, the top three are from his POV. Third shot even apparently had some additional dialogue about his taking responsibility for the situation.

I guess this explains the VN bit too after looking at some fan translated material.

Wait so being embarassed = wanting his dick ?
The consellor ? She is not... she actually does that with anyone .... i won't go into spoiler why but i'll give you this one as a freebie if you want .
kendo girl ? she was complimented on and blushed as a result. Heck the entire conversation is clear on that point. How many times does : "she just want me to join the kendo club " must be said so that you forget about it. Her entire talk is about equality because of the discrimation on weeds besides she isn't even intrested romanticaly in the MC.
( she has someone else )
That scene ? a bit of fanservice that's all I don't even know where you managed to see something between the 2.
She hasn't done anything that even remotely look like she cares Worse
she actually support someone who actually cares that you missed
The sister ? Again untrue I have dozen of examples to prove my point , but that would be spoilers.
The sister is debatable and clearly the most that appears to want it but ...
that's hardly "everyone"
 

Jintor

Member
Seki-kun 09

Rumi being the know-it-all ojou-sama for an episode was a great twist. In general I'm finding that Seki-kun perhaps is paced too slowly for the amount of laughs it brings but this was a good episode
 

Narag

Member
The consellor ? She is not... she actually does that with anyone .... i won't go into spoiler why but i'll give you this one as a freebie if you want .

As a fresh viewer, I don't know she does to everyone so it's meaningless at this point. Her lone interaction is wanting the dude's dick.

kendo girl ? she was complimented on and blushed as a result. Heck the entire conversation is clear on that point. How many times does : "she just want me to join the kendo club " must be said so that you forget about it. Her entire talk is about equality because of the discrimation on weeds besides she isn't even intrested romanticaly in the MC.
( she has someone else )

Visuals say something entirely other than what the dialogue says. This is where the problem arises from those that know better and the viewer going in without and that becomes adaptation problem.

That scene ? a bit of fanservice that's all I don't even know where you managed to see something between the 2.
She hasn't done anything that even remotely look like she cares Worse
she actually support someone who actually cares that you missed

Looking at the LN, it was handled much better by her quietly walking away, embarrassed and with a bit of tears but pride intact rather than saying he should take responsibility or whatever. It may not ever go anywhere but the seed had been planted. To keep pulling the manga/LN card isn't really a good approach as I shouldn't have to rely on what's ostensibly reference material to make sense out of the show.

The sister ? Again untrue I have dozen of examples to prove my point , but that would be spoilers.
The sister is debatable and clearly the most that appears to want it but ...
that's hardly "everyone"

The sister actually does want his dick but it's turned into this running gag where he's entirely uninterested. It's like Pinky asking the Brain what they plan to do tonight or Eek the Cat asking "Really?" when told his girlfriend is fat.
shit cracks me up
 

wonzo

Banned
Puchimas!! 23

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Seems an empty wallet doesn't stop them from sourcing this one animation studio that really should be doing every ep.

Tonari no Seki-kun 17

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moral of the story: dont let seki look after kids
 

sonicmj1

Member
But don't you think your points here reinforce what I was saying? What I found interesting about the approach in the film is how little it comments, but rather simply shows characters being people. Is being friendzoned or ignored enough of a provocation for rape? Absolutely not. That's not acceptable, it's morally wrong, and in every civilized nation it is illegal. But that doesn't mean people don't do it, feeling justified. It could be a moment of weakness, it could be evil intent, it could be poor upbringing. Doesn't matter, there's no excuse for it, it's wrong. I don't think a show has to SAY it's wrong, especially if the audience are adults who can form their own opinions with their own life experience and moral compass. Is he shown to be a violent guy? No. Is he shown to be an obvious sexual deviant? No. But not all rapists are. Rapists, murderers, molesters, and various sorts of sick people don't come in one package. Often they are completely normal people on the outside, and sometimes they give in to temptation or they snap. Obviously there are also those who have clear warning signs, and commit premeditated acts, but not everyone is the same.

I don't think the show is making a social statement about women in particular either. In fact, I feel that Honneamise represents and showcases a lot of the worst in human society, and things which people don't like to think about much or see. The reaction to the rape scene clearly shows people don't want to see stuff like that, and it's a fair reaction. You shouldn't. The other is the lack of satisfaction the show gives anything at all. It's a story of unresolved things. The relationship is unresolved. The aftermath of the rape is unresolved. The political maneuverings amount to nothing. Even the "successful" launch of the ship is meaningless. No one expected it to succeed, and in the end no one cared. He got to make a transmission which vindicates his personal achievement, but that's about it. It probably inspires no one, it makes no difference in the world, and he's probably dead after that.

This lack of satisfaction and resolution is something I find really interesting because it can be seen as a warning to what happens in a world where apathy has taken over. The movie does not comment on this directly, just like it does not really comment on anything directly. But simply watching what they chose to show, that is the only conclusion I can come to. It shows a world which mirrors our own in many ways, but things here have gotten to a point where there really isn't much hope for those living in it. There isn't much of the future or positive progression in society, people are forced to rely entirely on their own initiative and set personal goals to get any sense of satisfaction, there is a terrible support system for people who feel lost, and all this leads the various people in the show to do the things they do. The politicians act against their own interests because change is more frightening. The engineers have more or less given up and take things one day at a time because no one else cares. The lonely fall towards the redemptive concepts of religion without benefiting from the community support which should come with it. I don't view the movie as "light-hearted" at all, even though the rape scene is probably the only physically dark moment in the film. The tone throughout is bleak, even though the protagonist is largely whimsy and care-free. The fact that such a society is seen by everyone as largely normal, and so they act normally in it, creates a really sick undertone.

Wings of Honneamise is a really interesting movie because there's a lot that can be read from it. Whether it was designed to be read a certain way or whether much of it was inspired by things in reality isn't as important, because by not saying anything explicit about what they show, it allows the audience the freedom to judge such a world and relate it to how we see our own world. I think that is far more valuable than a film which has a specific message telling people what they are seeing is right or wrong. We have enough of those sort of stories, the ones simply showing things as they are definitely hold my interest more. Probably why I'm a huge fan of Wong Kar Wai movies.

I was probing for a response of my own, but this contains almost all of what I want to say. I may have felt more hopeful about the ending than you did, because it read to me like a really optimistic look at the power of science and images to change people's hearts, but I also agree that the apathetic void in Honneamise's world gives the movie a disturbing tone for long stretches.

I think there can be a lot of power in just showing something wrong happening and then leaving it largely unaddressed at the end. In situations like this, I think of the workplace harassment episode in Hataraki Man, which made me really angry at the time I watched it, because the guy committing the harassment wasn't punished or reprimanded in any way. That was frustrating, but it also showed me ways that the harassment affects its victims that I couldn't have imagined before I saw the situation from that perspective. And that helps show why it's such a challenging problem to root out and deal with.

I don't think Honneamise is trying to make A Point about rape or women in general, but for better or worse, the aftermath of the attempt is handled in a very realistic manner, even if it's an unhealthy one. How that plays out says something about the woman's life and her faith, and about the lead's own selfishness. It's not the only way it could have happened, and it's not the way you'd want healthy people to do it, but it's effective for the beats it needs to hit, and it doesn't fall back to the standard reaction tropes that plague these kinds of scenes.
 
As a fresh viewer, I don't know she does to everyone so it's meaningless at this point. Her lone interaction is wanting the dude's dick.
She has one scene ..one scene !! Talk about getting to the conclusion fast.
Based on one scene from a character where you don't have any background yet and without any other context , your conclusion is absolute ?

I don't buy it.

Visuals say something entirely other than what the dialogue says. This is where the problem arises from those that know better and the viewer going in without and that becomes adaptation problem.
I suggest to pay attention to the text, the dialog .. You're taking 1 part of the scene out of context of the rest to prove your point, ignoring .. well the entire point of the scene in question.
Looking at the LN, it was handled much better by her quietly walking away, embarrassed and with a bit of tears but pride intact rather than saying he should take responsibility or whatever. It may not ever go anywhere but the seed had been planted. To keep pulling the manga/LN card isn't really a good approach as I shouldn't have to rely on what's ostensibly reference material to make sense out of the show.
I'm sorry can i use Ln elements or not ? or just when it fit your opinion ?
What seed ? If that was a seed then everyone in every anime is doomed.
Girl in trouble , he help her , usual anime gimmick , they chat as if nothing happenned afterwards ( not even a blush ! or anything since ) .. what a seed indeed.
The sister actually does want his dick but it's turned into this running gag where he's entirely uninterested. It's like Pinky asking the Brain what they plan to do tonight or Eek the Cat asking "Really?" when told his girlfriend is fat.
shit cracks me up

Again regardless of what you want to believe on the sister or not , that's hardly "everyone"
 

Narag

Member
She has one scene ..one scene !! Talk about getting to the conclusion fast.
Based on one scene from a character where you don't have any background yet and without any other context , your conclusion is absolute ?

I don't buy it.

If a character was a total asshole in their lone scene in anything, we'd assume they were a total asshole. First impressions are everything and the counselor was presented as a sexual creature with obvious interest in the MC. If she changes, she changes. I don't know! It's not like anime isn't full of one dimensional gimmick characters so I don't understand why you think I should offer this show the benefit of the doubt. If I'm wrong, good, I like being wrong about superficially bad things!

I suggest to pay attention to the text, the dialog .. You're taking 1 part of the scene out of context of the rest to prove your point, ignoring .. well the entire point of the scene in
question.

It's arguably the most important part of a visual medium. Even in anime, body language has a place and it's not outside of the realm of reason to feel dialogue and visuals should be aligned. They're obviously not here. Watch it without sound if you don't believe me.

I'm sorry can i use Ln elements or not ? or just when it fit your opinion ?
What seed ? If that was a seed then everyone in every anime is doomed.
Girl in trouble , he help her , usual anime gimmick , they chat as if nothing happenned afterwards ( not even a blush ! or anything since ) .. what a seed indeed.

Yes, I sourced the LN to see what changes were made in that scene. That doesn't change the fact a show has an adaptation problem if one has to continually refer to it for the world building. I've no problem with you being all in on the multimedia aspect but you need to be aware not everyone will be and as a consequence, not everyone is going to perceive things as you do. I run into this all the time with my compilation movie fetish and often have to pull back and examine how well a plot element is set up on its own merit within rather than relying on my outside knowledge of the situation from viewing an expanded sequence of events in a tv series.

Again regardless of what you want to believe on the sister or not , that's hardly "everyone"

If I'd known you were going to get stuck on what's an obviously hyperbolic comment, I'd have never made it to begin with.
 
I hope that if it's localised and dub , it won't be as censored as the tv pokemon shows ..

i've stopped watching pokemon on Tv( dubbed ) is it still as censored as before ?

Or is this a thing of the past ?
 

Zeppeli

Banned
Does it still force you to sit through ads even with Plus?

It is Hulu

I hope that if it's localised and dub , it won't be as censored as the tv pokemon shows ..

i've stopped watching pokemon on Tv( dubbed ) is it still as censored as before ?

Or is this a thing of the past ?

The Origin was aimed at an older audience. It was already dubbed/localized and it wasn't censored. The TV anime is aimed at children.
 
If a character was a total asshole in their lone scene in anything, we'd assume they were a total asshole. First impressions are everything and the counselor was presented as a sexual creature with obvious interest in the MC. If she changes, she changes. I don't know! It's not like anime isn't full of one dimensional gimmick characters so I don't understand why you think I should offer this show the benefit of the doubt. If I'm wrong, good, I like being wrong about superficially bad things!
It's not about changing , it's about the fact that you don't know what she is like.You can't claim to grasp a character with only that much information. Yeah first impressions are important but they certainly aren't everything.

It's arguably the most important part of a visual medium. Even in anime, body language has a place and it's not outside of the realm of reason to feel dialogue and visuals should be aligned. They're obviously not here. Watch it without sound if you don't believe me.
Sorry but watching an anime without sound would still allow me to read the subtitles.
Joke aside , even if my subtitles were"off" ..it would be like reading a book and ignoring everything except dialog , like the descriptions of the places ,the environnement , the world building ect ect , you know everything that helps to give context , so that readers can understand the intent of all parties involved.

And that's exactly what you've done here , ignoring context
Yes, I sourced the LN to see what changes were made in that scene. That doesn't change the fact a show has an adaptation problem if one has to continually refer to it for the world building. I've no problem with you being all in on the multimedia aspect but you need to be aware not everyone will be and as a consequence, not everyone is going to perceive things as you do. I run into this all the time with my compilation movie fetish and often have to pull back and examine how well a plot element is set up on its own merit within rather than relying on my outside knowledge of the situation from viewing an expanded sequence of events in a tv series.
It's a problem that exist in all mediums when you go from one format to another.
As i said several posts ago , mahouka has quite a big chunk of world building and terminologies to the point that the anime show production outputted several episodes to explain the basic terminology and dialog . Have you seen those ?
It's not the best way to do it if you want to present an information to a viewer but there are times where you can't do otherwise.

I actually understand that missing piece of information might lead to misconceptions.. that's to be expected. There is however nothing with providing the information missing if it help understanding. Ignoring this because "the anime didn't tell me " is rejecting willfully information for no good reason because i believe that for most people the point of anime is to enjoy it and if providing additionnal information helps , i'll do it.
If I'd known you were going to get stuck on what's an obviously hyperbolic comment, I'd have never made it to begin with.
Problem with that hyperbolic comment is that it's used often, and badly used given the context, not by you alone ... that's why i hope to clear this misunderstanding.
 

Narag

Member
It's not about changing , it's about the fact that you don't know what she is like.You can't claim to grasp a character with only that much information. Yeah first impressions are important but they certainly aren't everything.
They're all I have at the moment! Look at the people that wrote off Matsutaro because he was a dick in his introduction episodes. He might redeem himself in XX episodes down the road but the damage is done at this point.

Sorry but watching an anime without sound would still allow me to read the subtitles.
Joke aside , even if my subtitles were"off" ..it would be like reading a book and ignoring everything except dialog , like the descriptions of the places ,the environnement , the world building ect ect , you know everything that helps to give context , so that readers can understand the intent of all parties involved.

And that's exactly what you've done here , ignoring context

My takeaway would be the same if the book presented a scene of two young students, male and female, sitting together in a restaurant area away from everyone else, conversing with the girl often blushing and looking nervous in his presence, especially after he had just played hero.

Problem here, as I've said, is the visuals imply something the dialog doesn't. Maybe it's just pandering to the target market but when stuff isn't in sync, it's creates a sort of dissonance.

It's a problem that exist in all mediums when you go from one format to another.
As i said several posts ago , mahouka has quite a big chunk of world building and terminologies to the point that the anime show production outputted several episodes to explain the basic terminology and dialog . Have you seen those ?
It's not the best way to do it if you want to present an information to a viewer but there are times where you can't do otherwise.

Actually, no, I was unaware of the supplemental episodes. Surprised it wasn't thrown in like a short omake segment like others shows would do like Gunbuster's Science Lessons or Welcome to Lodoss Island! I could complain about it not being in one convenient package but that'd be pushing it if the production is making the effort though.

I actually understand that missing piece of information might lead to misconceptions.. that's to be expected. There is however nothing with providing the information missing if it help understanding. Ignoring this because "the anime didn't tell me " is rejecting willfully information for no good reason for most people the point of anime is to enjoy it and if providing additionnal information helps , i'll do it.

This is ultimately neither here nor there as I think we're basically arguing two different things. You're eager to explain why things are when it comes to the plot while I'm looking at it as an adaptation and why certain elements don't appear to be presented properly.


Problem with that hyperbolic comment is that it's used often, and badly used given the context, not by you alone that's why i hope to clear this misunderstanding.
Nah, it's all good!
 
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