Support NeoGAF

[Dragoon En Regalia]

I added to it, actually. What's wrong with it? I'm curious.

 

[Femmeworth]

Finally: what's the deal Femmeworth had with Sonoshee, again? She seemed to be a good female character, but I might have missed out on something, let alone that argumentation I ignored.

• "I'm only interested in racing."
  *falls in love with man*
• Daddy issues.
• Super girly.
• Flashback full of crying.
• Fanservice.
• Gets saved by JP.

There's probably more I'm forgetting. She was defined by her gender, pretty much.

If a female character has boobs bigger than an A cup, they must be fanservice characters and therefore sexist! That's all I was able to extract from it.

Do I actively call things in this thread sexist? No.

 

[cajunator]

I've got an idea for the title.

That movie is so very fucking awful.
I wanted to like it too

 

[duckroll]

I added to it, actually. What's wrong with it? I'm curious.

Because it is generally the complete opposite. On a movie production, especially one where a single director holds all the major roles and has a tight control on the entire production, delays can be squarely blamed on how that person handles the production and whether the vision is realistic to be realized in a given time frame. For Redline, Koike is not just the director, but he also did the storyboards, the character design, and actual animation. His supervision on the project extends to all aspects of the production, and the buck stops with him. If he gets all the praise for the quality of the project, he should also get all the blame for how long it took. David Fincher says the same thing, as a director with an amount of creative control, it is only fair that you take all the blame for something going bad, if you are prepared to take all the praise for doing a great job.

On a TV series, the production is generally very diversified. There are multiple production lines handling episodes simultaneously, each with their own unit directors, storyboarders, and animation directors. Individual episodes could have delays for production problems exclusive to the staff handling that episode, or it could be an indication of a larger problem with the entire project. Blaming just the overall animation director for it is silly, since he's hardly the one doing the most work to begin with. He isn't the one making the final call on the production either, nor the creative direction of the series. He isn't the director, he didn't storyboard anything, he hasn't been the animation director on a specific episode since episode 1, and he hasn't directed a single episode. Even if he is responsible for the delays on the production, it would be the fault of the director for not being in control of the situation. The buck does not stop at the animation director.

 

[Branduil]

Yeah, I had considered this. Not sure what other studio would be a likely candidate - I'd say Bones if they weren't doing Zetsuen. I guess we'll find out.

Maybe Production I.G.? Deadhouse?

 

[duckroll]

Maybe Production I.G.? Deadhouse?

Badhouse is a complete subsidiary of NTV now. There is no way they will ever work on a show which does not air on NTV or is not a movie bankrolled by NTV.

 

[Branduil]

Badhouse is a complete subsidiary of NTV now. There is no way they will ever work on a show which does not air on NTV or is not a movie bankrolled by NTV.

What is Magi airing on?

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Well: you're partly-correct, but I never blamed Koike for the whole thing (which I didn't clarify previously). There are other faults in Fujikoike that come down to different individuals. Koike still could have done his correction work better, though—some episodes look really-rough and rushed in areas. And that comes down to managing the episodic animation directors, too, because they manage the bulk of the work there.

So that makes more sense, really. Koike picked some inconsistent animation directors for each episode.

 

[duckroll]

What is Magi airing on?

If they are running an ad during Gundam AGE, it would have to be TBS/MBS.

Well: you're partly-correct, but I never blamed Koike for the whole thing (which I didn't clarify previously). There are other faults in Fujikoike that come down to different individuals. Koike still could have done his correction work better, though—some episodes look really-rough and rushed in areas.

Correction work takes time. There is no time to do much of it, because there is barely enough time for the animators to even make the episodes before they go on air. So whose fault is that?

 

[Branduil]

Any chance it could be a Brains Base production?

 

[Femmeworth]

That movie is so very fucking awful.
I wanted to like it too

I actually haven't watched it. *adds to Netflix queue*

 

[duckroll]

Any chance it could be a Brains Base production?

Not likely, since they're getting more crappy game tie-in work now: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...aga-game-gets-tv-anime-with-gintama-takamatsu

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

If they are running an ad during Gundam AGE, it would have to be TBS/MBS.



Correction work takes time. There is no time to do much of it, because there is barely enough time for the animators to even make the episodes before they go on air. So whose fault is that?

The producers for not giving the show what it needs to succeed anyway. Which includes more time in pre-production, better timing with episode director and script-writer contracts, etc.

 

[Branduil]

Not likely, since they're getting more crappy game tie-in work now: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...aga-game-gets-tv-anime-with-gintama-takamatsu

I'd say you gotta pay the bills somehow, but given Sengoku Collections' crappy sales, is that even true?

 

[duckroll]

The producers for not giving the show what it needs to succeed anyway. Which includes more time in pre-production, better timing with episode director and script-writer contracts, etc.

I think airing in Spring was probably a bad idea. But they were probably sick of waiting any longer before getting returns on the investment for the project. The pre-production time was actually really long for the show, but somehow that didn't translate into a smooth production process either. It's a mess all round. I think there's enough blame to fall on everyone, especially since so many aspects of the show sucks, even ignoring the rushed production.

 

[cajunator]

I actually haven't watched it. *adds to Netflix queue*

Its well made, its just fucking bizarre. bizarre music, overly artsy scenes, characters with a lack of depth...shit it could be a bad anime. I mean, it starts off ok then it just spirals into WHAT THE FUCK.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

So you're still potentially going to blame Koike? I find that interesting.

Of course, though, I like the show more than you do. We're just not quite sure who to blame for the pre-production failures, anyway. Why aren't they trying to experiment with Koike's designs more often? Episodes 1 and 5 were the only episodes where Lupin's face felt tangible and off-model in interesting ways, every other example being a minor fuck-up.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

The D. grayman season one trailer on the one piece collection set actually makes this Allen Walker look really cool, and about exorcists? Is it actually good anime?

 

[firehawk12]

• "I'm only interested in racing."
  *falls in love with man*
  
• Daddy issues.
  
• Super girly.
  
• Flashback full of crying.
  
• Fanservice.
  
• Gets saved by JP.
  

There's probably more I'm forgetting. She was defined by her gender, pretty much.

I can't really remember the film at all at this point, but there are times where she is a fetish object. Whether or not male gaze is problematic is up to you to decide though. I suppose I've become so inured to camera shots where the camera starts at a character's legs and then slowly and creepily pans up to the rest of the character's body, that all I have is an academic reaction. Certainly it doesn't titillate (herp, I said tit!) me any more than a spread in the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue would (they still make that, right?).

There was also the other female racing team, who were pretty much there to be fake lesbians and eye candy for the "camera", iirc.

I suppose to be fair though, it's not as if any of the characters had any depth beyond their designs. It's a film about the pretty pictures and I guess it's not fair to blame the film if the film itself doesn't give a shit. It's why I don't even remember any of the representational problems any more.

 

[cajunator]

Femmeworth wouldn't like Desert Punk at all.

 

[Geneijin]

:LOL, what have you done cajunator

 

[Femmeworth]

I can't really remember the film at all at this point, but there are times where she is a fetish object. Whether or not male gaze is problematic is up to you to decide though. I suppose I've become so inured to camera shots where the camera starts at a character's legs and then slowly and creepily pans up to the rest of the character's body, that all I have is an academic reaction. Certainly it doesn't titillate (herp, I said tit!) me any more than a spread in the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue would (they still make that, right?).

There was also the other female racing team, who were pretty much there to be fake lesbians and eye candy for the "camera", iirc.

I suppose to be fair though, it's not as if any of the characters had any depth beyond their designs. It's a film about the pretty pictures and I guess it's not fair to blame the film if the film itself doesn't give a shit. It's why I don't even remember any of the representational problems any more.

That's a cop-out.

JP and company had a little bit of depth.

 

[Crash Station]

The D. grayman season one trailer on the one piece collection set actually makes this Allen Walker look really cool, and about exorcists? Is it actually good anime?

Anime is up and down. The first season was plagued by a lot of bad filler, but got good again around the end. Then the 2nd was mostly good all around, but had a premature ending and the manga following where it left off became a convoluted mess even beyond Oh! Great's special brand of nonsense.

 

[duckroll]

So you're still potentially going to blame Koike? I find that interesting.

Of course, though, I like the show more than you do. We're just not quite sure who to blame for the pre-production failures, anyway.

But I never blamed Koike for anything. I just found it silly that YOU feel that he is to blame for Fujiko, but not Redline.

My opinion is pretty consistent. Fujiko sucks because the director sucks. But the production is shit because the producers have their heads in their asses. For Redline I've always said that it took so long because Koike is a perfectionist, but if there is any fault in a movie taking 7 years, it would be the producer who has no spine to tell the director when enough is enough.

 

[firehawk12]

That's a cop-out.

Of course it is, but like any thread about women, it's not really worth having an argument about it in any way.

Either you get into a circle jerk between people who agree with each other, or you get into circular bullshit arguments where all you do is end up with a bunch of people who think the other side are idiots.

I mean, I keep bringing up Wargames, but it really does have the best philosophy for having a low stress life: The only winning move is not to play the game.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Why aren't they trying to experiment with Koike's designs more often? Episodes 1 and 5 were the only episodes where Lupin's face felt tangible and off-model in interesting ways, every other example being a minor fuck-up.

Because it's all the animators can do to just barely finish each episode in time for it to air? There's no time to be crafty and experimental, especially when the designs don't lend themselves to being loose.

 

[Femmeworth]

Of course it is, but like any thread about women, it's not really worth having an argument about it in any way.

Either you get into a circle jerk between people who agree with each other, or you get into circular bullshit arguments where all you do is end up with a bunch of people who think the other side are idiots.

I mean, I keep bringing up Wargames, but it really does have the best philosophy for having a low stress life: The only winning move is not to play the game.

*checks blood pressure and heart rate*
You're right.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

I don't think that's the case with the designs themselves. Look at what Koike can do with his designs, in both Trava and REDLINE. I think it comes down to the animator talent in particular—and, of course, that goes back to the production process itself.

 

[firehawk12]

*checks blood pressure*
You're right.

And you know, the best way to not give a single fuck is to just watch shows that you know are trashy - the Nyarko show is a perfect example from this season.

 

[Instro]

I'd say you gotta pay the bills somehow, but given Sengoku Collections' crappy sales, is that even true?

Would the sales even matter for them when they are being contracted by Konami?

 

[Kazzy]

I mean, I keep bringing up Wargames, but it really does have the best philosophy for having a low stress life: The only winning move is not to play the game.

Similarly, I like this : You tried your best and you failed miserably. The moral is - never try.

 

[firehawk12]

Similarly, I like this : You tried your best and you failed miserably. The moral is - never try.

Well, one implies cynical pessimism and the other suggests three-dimensional, out of the box thinking! lol

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Never trying is just dull, to me. Though I ultimately lost that argument with Duckroll, that doesn't mean I'll do a 180 and sit in the corner. Bring on the anime!

 

[wonzo]

Kimi no Iru Machi OVA 2 END

How rage inducing is the manga compared to this and more importantly,

Spoiler

is it as liberal as this was with female nudity?

 

[Articalys]

Kimi no Iru Machi OVA 2

You know what? All things considered, for how infamous the manga is, this was actually pretty good for an adaptation. By focusing on this particular story arc, weaving in the significant flashbacks as necessary, and actually changing the ending to a better one, they managed to make something nice out of it. Guess that's what happens when you put someone like Yasuhiro Yoshiura in charge!

EDIT: responding to what wonzo said above, and to emphasize my post further, this OVA series felt FAR above the quality of the manga. If the actual series had ended at the point this did, the way this did, it would have been a lot better.

EDIT 2: basically, the manga was only kind of ragey up to this story arc. It was mostly after this point in the manga that things went full-on rage-worthy.

 

[duckroll]

Would the sales even matter for them when they are being contracted by Konami?

It depends on how much stake they have in the production committee I suppose. In this case, since it is mostly a Konami and NAS production, I don't imagine it really matters to them. It would be a much bigger deal if they actually had a significant stake in the show, and stand to benefit from profits and merchandising.

Never trying is just dull, to me. Though I ultimately lost that argument with Duckroll, that doesn't mean I'll do a 180 and sit in the corner. Bring on the anime!

Yeah well, Sayo Yamamoto seems like a pretty dull person! *rubs salt in*

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

I don't think that's the case with the designs themselves. Look at what Koike can do with his designs, in both Trava and REDLINE. I think it comes down to the animator talent in particular—and, of course, that goes back to the production process itself.

What I'm saying is that looser designs are easier to animate. The more detailed the designs are, the more difficult and time-consuming it will be to make them move in an attractive manner. I don't think the talent of the animators involved changes this basic principle.

 

[firehawk12]

Kimi no Iru Machi OVA 2 END

How rage inducing is the manga compared to this and more importantly,

Spoiler

is it as liberal as this was with female nudity?

I really want to read this because of all the supposed "rage", but I don't think anyone has really spelled out why it's suppose to be "rage inducing" in the first place.

 

[duckroll]

Another point I feel is relevant in Fujiko is that there are a lot of costume changes from episode to episode. These alone take up design time, and it could be enough of a headache for animation directors to keep track of, so it becomes less likely that they would want to try further "creative" forms of animation for a given character design, outside of what is already established.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Yeah well, Sayo Yamamoto seems like a pretty dull person! *rubs salt in*

Wasn't talking about that, though. You're right on me naming names, and that's what I was referring to.

What I'm saying is that looser designs are easier to animate. The more detailed the designs are, the more difficult and time-consuming it will be to make them move in an attractive manner. I don't think the talent of the animators involved changes this basic principle.

Yes. But then are the producers to blame, or are the animators? Or perhaps both? It's hard to balance out the blame framework sometimes, especially when we've yet to find out about what precisely went wrong.

 

[cajunator]

If at first you don't succeed, throw money at the problem until you win.

 

[Articalys]

I really want to read this because of all the supposed "rage", but I don't think anyone has really spelled out why it's suppose to be "rage inducing" in the first place.

The way I see it, after a certain point in the manga, there's a severe increase in the number of ridiculously cliche contrived coincidences, melodrama, and incredibly stupid decisions made by the MC.

 

[1stStrike]

If at first you don't succeed, throw money at the problem until you win.

Corporate America, is that you?

 

[dimb]

That movie is so very fucking awful.
I wanted to like it too

How is it even possible to have such bad taste?

 

[firehawk12]

The way I see it, after a certain point in the manga, there's a severe increase in the number of ridiculously cliche contrived coincidences, melodrama, and incredibly stupid decisions made by the MC.

Oh, so jdrama?

Spoiler

Or Apollon.

 

[Articalys]

Oh, so jdrama?

Spoiler

Or Apollon.

Spoiler

Amusingly enough, the MC in the Kimi no Iru Machi OVA is voiced by Yoshimasa Hosoya, who's also voicing Sentarou.

 

[wonzo]

Shiba Inuko 12

not even hypnotism can set things right in this show

 

[firehawk12]

Spoiler

Amusingly enough, the MC in the Kimi no Iru Machi OVA is voiced by Yoshimasa Hosoya, who's also voicing Sentarou.

Twice is a coincidence, one more and it'll be a pattern!

 

[Makoto]

Its well made, its just fucking bizarre. bizarre music, overly artsy scenes, characters with a lack of depth...shit it could be a bad anime. I mean, it starts off ok then it just spirals into WHAT THE FUCK.

You did not just use these words to describe There Will Be Blood.

 

[Defuser]

[Gintama] - 252/Finale

A ha! I am done! Finished! It only took about a year.

Totally worth it.

What are your impressions and thoughts about it? I'm always interested in people's opinions on gintama.

The new Space Brothers OP song will be by Sukima Switch. That's pretty cool.

Can't wait, I do like their golden time lover for FMA:B.

I don't know what the series looks like, but I do like those character designs.

If there is ever a Nisekoi anime, you be hnnnnnnging every single episode and even before the show.

Yeah, I had considered this. Not sure what other studio would be a likely candidate - I'd say Bones if they weren't doing Zetsuen. I guess we'll find out.

I was thinking of A1 since they were a subsidy of Aniplex but duckroll pointed out they got too many projects on their hands. Maybe Satelite since they did collab on Fairy Tail before.

Best case scenario studio:
Sunrise, Production I.G.

Worst case scenarion studio:
Deen, Xebec, Zexcs, J.C.Staff

I'm not sure where category I should throw Bones or Madhouse into.