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Star Citizen Pre-Alpha: 'Arena Commander' Dogfighting

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M

mercenar1e

Member
im downloading the PTU pretty quickly.. seems like a big improvement over the way it was done before now that they separated the PTU launcher from the main game.


performance in the hangar before the update was 60fps but now its 30 and its similar in dog fights.. matches are shorter now and its more chaotic.. people are smashing into each other like bumper cars.
 
M

Mister_Bubbles

Member
New letter from the Chairman and 10 For the Chairman video

Chris Roberts said:
You’ve seen Star Citizen evolve and start to come together. You’ve watched our atoms form molecules, our modules form a real, playable game (that you can boot up and play today!). There are people out there who are going to tell you that this is all a BAD THING. That it’s ‘feature creep’ and we should make a smaller, less impressive game for the sake of having it out more quickly or in order to meet artificial deadlines. Now I’ll answer those claims in one word: Bullshit!

Star Citizen matters BECAUSE it is big, because it is a bold dream. It is something everyone else is scared to try. You didn’t back Star Citizen because you want what you’ve seen before. You’re here and reading this because we are willing to go big, to do the things that terrify publishers. You’ve trusted us with your money so we can build a game, not line our pockets. And we sure as hell didn’t run this campaign so we could put that money in the bank, guarantee ourselves a profit and turn out some flimsy replica of a game I’ve made before. You went all in supporting us and we’ve gone all in making the game. Is Star Citizen today a bigger goal than I imagined in 2012? Absolutely. Is that a bad thing? Absolutely not: it’s the whole damn point.
Click to expand...

You tell 'em, Chris! You tell 'em. Man, I love that guy.

Also, sick concept art as usual:

ENV_Chop_Shop_Full_MV10_S.jpg
 
Z

Zabojnik

Member
That letter should be in the OP of every "Star Citizen is doomed / a scam" thread on GAF. It should also be obligatory reading for every "I have no idea how this game is being made, but that won't stop me from talking shit about it" gaming journalist, such as the gentlemen of the Giant Bombcast. Everyone is free to say whatever they want, but if you keep commenting every SC-related news item, at some point it wouldn't hurt to get, you know, informed about the game.
 
X

Xplatformer

Member
Love listening to Chris.

Until I see proof that the money donated to the project has been in vain, Chris has my complete trust.

I WANT what he's saying. I don't want Destiny. I don't want Elite: Dangerous. I want both slapped together with better graphics and a deeper universe/story than either.

Get em Chris.

Now I want a Merlin and my Freelancer MAX.
 
K

~Kinggi~

Banned
Hey thats nice he can talk the talk, me personally will wait till it actually delivers. Certainly putting his reputation out there though. If he doesnt come through he is done in more ways than one. I backed at 40 or whatever it was on KS.
 
X

Xplatformer

Member
~Kinggi~ said:
Hey thats nice he can talk the talk, me personally will wait till it actually delivers. Certainly putting his reputation out there though. If he doesnt come through he is done in more ways than one. I backed at 40 or whatever it was on KS.
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85 million in crowd funding seems to imply that a lot of people think he can walk the walk. I'll wait til he doesn't deliver before I judge him.
 
B

btags

Member
Not near my computer for the next two weeks essentially, so a shame I cannot look at the new build.

Great 104tC and awesome letter. Cannot wait for star marine and beyond!
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
~Kinggi~ said:
Hey thats nice he can talk the talk, me personally will wait till it actually delivers. Certainly putting his reputation out there though. If he doesnt come through he is done in more ways than one. I backed at 40 or whatever it was on KS.
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He's not just talking the talk, but actively walking the walk at this point. Whether the walk is worth it in the end, however, remains to be seen.
 
P

Pomerlaw

Member
Cocky newsletter. Gamescom should be interesting. Both E:D and SC should have strong showcases.

~Kinggi~ said:
Hey thats nice he can talk the talk, me personally will wait till it actually delivers. Certainly putting his reputation out there though. If he doesnt come through he is done in more ways than one. I backed at 40 or whatever it was on KS.
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And he hasn't... Yet. Arena Commander is terrible, and the "pre alpha" excuse is getting old.
 
M

MasterOfPastures

Banned
HelloMeow said:
How is ED like flying planes?
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There's no reason why a spaceship's yaw rate should be considerably slower than it's roll rate. Somehow, in the Elite universe, every ship manufacturer has secretly convened that all ships include this... handicap.
I hope thargoids don't introduce 6 degrees of uniform rotation speed in their ships, because otherwise, humanity is doomed..
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
HelloMeow said:
How is ED like flying planes?
Click to expand...

Yaw turn rate is extremely restricted in ED, forcing a roll -> pitch flight mechanic for turning that is similar to atmospheric flight. In space there's no real control surfaces aside from where you stick thrusters, so there's no reason for yaw to be less viable than pitch. SC's increased yaw rate, however, makes the "flying turret" mechanic viable in SC where it is impossible in ED.
 
R

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
MasterOfPastures said:
There's no reason why a spaceship's yaw rate should be considerably slower than it's roll rate. Somehow, in the Elite universe, every ship manufacturer has secretly convened that all ships include this... handicap.
I hope thargoids don't introduce 6 degrees of uniform rotation speed in their ships, because otherwise, humanity is doomed..
Click to expand...

"These Thargoids are monsters! No respect for patent law."
*takes 30 seconds to turn around in disgust and then zooms off at 2000c*
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
To be fair, complete realism is out of the question for either game. If you want realistic, go play Kerbal. Total accuracy in the flight model wouldn't be much fun for the games that SC and ED are trying to be. Then there's the whole combat can of worms. In an era with technology like in those universes, we wouldn't be dog-fighting in small craft to begin with. It's just a matter of where you want to draw your arbitrary lines. Personal preferences will dictate which model a given person is going to like. Neither is really "right" though.
 
D

Dubbedinenglish

Banned
Zalusithix said:
SC's increased yaw rate, however, makes the "flying turret" mechanic viable in SC where it is impossible in ED.
Click to expand...

Turrets in space also comes from the MAV thrusters being equal to the main engines, that and instant acceleration and stopping. 1.1.5 does make steps against the controls feeling like a FPS in space but there is a long way to go.

Watching the 10FTC Roberts is at least clear how the game is going to be governed by which control method you use. Still have zero faith in them getting proper balance when players are playing two different games against each other. Also his notion of mouse being a poor flight control has been proven wrong many many times. A proper V-Joy implemented and not axis stacking the mouse would work fine to fly.
 
H

HelloMeow

Member
MasterOfPastures said:
There's no reason why a spaceship's yaw rate should be considerably slower than it's roll rate. Somehow, in the Elite universe, every ship manufacturer has secretly convened that all ships include this... handicap.
I hope thargoids don't introduce 6 degrees of uniform rotation speed in their ships, because otherwise, humanity is doomed..
Click to expand...

Zalusithix said:
Yaw turn rate is extremely restricted in ED, forcing a roll -> pitch flight mechanic for turning that is similar to atmospheric flight. In space there's no real control surfaces aside from where you stick thrusters, so there's no reason for yaw to be less viable than pitch. SC's increased yaw rate, however, makes the "flying turret" mechanic viable in SC where it is impossible in ED.
Click to expand...

In that sense it is like flying a plane. Planes can't really fly backwards, laterally or vertically though. And with FA off, which I would recommend to everyone, it becomes even less like flying a plane.

I'd rather have some limits that aren't necessarily realistic, but benefit the game in some way. It would be easy to invent some kind of reason that explains why these limits are there. E.g. the frame shift drive experiences some kind of drag which would cause it to break etc.
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
HelloMeow said:
Planes can't really fly backwards,laterally or vertically though.
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Well, VTOL/STOVL planes can accomplish vertical movement - albeit at extremely low forward velocities. Actually, all planes are capable of downward vertical movement so long as it doesn't have to be controlled movement. ;)
 
S

SmartBase

Member
Dubbedinenglish said:
Turrets in space also comes from the MAV thrusters being equal to the main engines, that and instant acceleration and stopping. 1.1.5 does make steps against the controls feeling like a FPS in space but there is a long way to go.

Watching the 10FTC Roberts is at least clear how the game is going to be governed by which control method you use. Still have zero faith in them getting proper balance when players are playing two different games against each other. Also his notion of mouse being a poor flight control has been proven wrong many many times. A proper V-Joy implemented and not axis stacking the mouse would work fine to fly.
Click to expand...

This never made a lot of sense, considering how much they go on about realistic physics.

Daedardus said:
It doesn't play like E:D, aka WWII in space, apparently.
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I didn't know WWII planes had attitude/manoeuvring thrusters and the ability to fly backwards, please tell us more.
 
D

Daedardus

Member
SmartBase said:
I didn't know WWII planes had attitude/manoeuvring thrusters and the ability to fly backwards, please tell us more.
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It's just a term that has been around for a while, I didn't invent it. It has to do with the fact that the E:D kinda simulates more like atmospheric flight, which makes the dogfighting more similar to WWII flight sims compared to games like Star Citizen.
 
H

HelloMeow

Member
Daedardus said:
It's just a term that has been around for a while, I didn't invent it. It has to do with the fact that the E:D kinda simulates more like atmospheric flight, which makes the dogfighting more similar to WWII flight sims compared to games like Star Citizen.
Click to expand...

Yeah, with flight assist enabled. If you don't want that, turn FA off.
 
S

SmartBase

Member
Here's another Gamers Nexus video about multi-crew systems, following on from their FPS video. It's reasonably informative.

Daedardus said:
It's just a term that has been around for a while, I didn't invent it. It has to do with the fact that the E:D kinda simulates more like atmospheric flight, which makes the dogfighting more similar to WWII flight sims compared to games like Star Citizen.
Click to expand...

So why keep using the term to describe ED when it's not accurate? Actually, don't answer that, even the current PTU build has more emphasis on roll and pitch now.
 
D

Daedardus

Member
SmartBase said:
So why keep using the term to describe ED when it's not accurate? Actually, don't answer that, even the current PTU build has more emphasis on roll and pitch now.
Click to expand...

Because it's not necessarily a bad thing? In fact, many people even want a more atmospheric flight system, as evidenced by the posts in this thread that preferred E:D above SC. It's just called WWII because that's were most of the similar games in terms of dogfighting are in, with the emphasis on dogfighting. And of course it's not totally the same, it's still a space sim, and yes you can turn flight assist off but I was talking about people who were looking for such an experience. I never used to term to denigrate, merely to describe.
 
R

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
HelloMeow said:
Yeah, with flight assist enabled. If you don't want that, turn FA off.
Click to expand...

Even with FA off, the yaw rate's still limited, which felt very strange to me. The ships even pitch up slightly faster than they pitch down.

It's a style choice which leads to pitch+roll type maneuvering. Even with FA off the pilots still have to roll to avoid yaw where possible.
 
P

Pomerlaw

Member
FD always said they were going for the "Star Wars" feeling in dogfights. Which is fine by me.

Neither game is a realistic representation of what space combat would be. But right now only one of them actually makes the flying part important. I hear some positive things about 1.1.5, lets hope they get it right soon.
 
R

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
Looks like Gamescom should be good:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitize..._roberts_gives_details_on_upcomimg_multicrew/

Chris Roberts said:
We're going to show [multi-crew] at Gamescom: You're going to start in a space station, you're in a room, you get out, the space station is huge – you'll see this gas giant outside, you'll go out to the landing pad, get into a cutlass with your friends. They'll all get into the Cutlass – which will all be its own zone running in the local grid – this is why we have the physics partitioned for each individual ship, so it can fly around and you can be moving around the ship irrelevant of where the ship's going.

...

I'm really excited by where we're at with multi-crew. Hopefully people will be impressed by what they see when we show them at Gamescom. It's a real system that has extensibility and we're going to show you getting into one ship, taking off, flying, EVAing into another ship, powering up... All the stuff you've seen in machinima videos and have thought "if I could do that in a game, that would be awesome."
Click to expand...
 
B

Burny

Member
The prospect of travelling through space in multi-crew ships with friends is what got me so insanely hyped for Star Citizen in the first place. Excited to finally see it actually working.

Of course, whether it's going to be fun in the end is still up in the air. It'll depend heavily on which different task there will be on board of such a ship and how enticing they'll be.
 
T

Tommyhawk

Member
Ingueferroque said:
Is the planet below shooting at the asteroids with those giant lasers?
Click to expand...

Comandr said:
AFAIK they are terraforming lasers/beams. Probably preparing the atmosphere for sustaining life.
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There is actually quite some lore behind the planet and the terraformers:

Now best known as the site of the “broken moon,” Taranis II was (like so many other planets) a victim of the gung ho terraforming craze of the Messer era.
A coreless world just inside the system’s green band, Taranis II was initially classified as a poor choice for terraformation and colonization.

But with a government more concerned with ‘we can’ than ‘we should,’ Taranis became one of dozens of worlds to be wrecked by a terraforming blunder.
In this case, the issue was laid squarely at the foot of CRABSOS Inc., the cheap geo development outfit assigned to process the world.
Standard operating procedure at the time for terraforming a coreless planet was to harness the energy in orbiting moons.

In the case of Taranis II, substandard parts and near slave labor meant that CRABSOS managed to crack the mantle of Taranis’ small moon, splitting it into a million dangerous chunks.
In addition to a deadly debris field that will continue to strike the planet for hundreds of years, the process super ignited the terraforming machinery in orbit.
Several of the stacks continue to burn unabated to this day, further rendering the surface of the planet worthless slag.

http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Taranis_system
 
K

KKRT00

Member
Burny said:
The prospect of travelling through space in multi-crew ships with friends is what got me so insanely hyped for Star Citizen in the first place. Excited to finally see it actually working.

Of course, whether it's going to be fun in the end is still up in the air. It'll depend heavily on which different task there will be on board of such a ship and how enticing they'll be.
Click to expand...

Yep, thats main reason why i'm so hyped. This and being EVE player without time that needs some 'Eve like' fix :)
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
Geist- said:
That new Connie looks beautiful, can't wait to see what my Phoenix looks like.
Click to expand...

Hell, I can't wait to see what my Phoenix flies like. Even if she's been outdone on every individual front by my other ships, she is still the most flexible of the bunch. Then there's the fact that it was the ship that I bought when I decided to bite the bullet and back the game, thus making it my first ship. It'll always be special to me for that alone.
 
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