New Patch today. Just flair, but some info about 1.1.5 which will bring a ton of new changes and optimizations.
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Star Citizen Pre-Alpha: 'Arena Commander' Dogfighting
- Thread starter MrBig
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What do you think we can expect from Star Citizen at Gamescom?
My personal hype-ball for the game has deflated considerably since I started loosely following it at the end of last year. I dimly remember tentative promises (?) of some Sq42 missions and the PU alpha for the end of this year. Now that The Star Marine alpha has been delayed to who-knows-when though and I still see new and big ship concepts popping up sporadically (Starliner recently), I'm beginning to lose some faith that the game will even be in a releasable state at the end of next year.
The issue I'm beginning to see is that they'll overwhelm themselves with the amount of features they promise. On paper, all of what they present in terms of design may sound great, but somebody has to implement all of that. What's worse: It all has to be tested and iterated, otherwise all those features are pretty much guaranteed to be a bug riddled mess. It seems they are trying to gamify every single in game system there is. Passenger transport? Mining? Discovery of routes to different systems through wormholes? Different versions of that personal arm computer thingy with various feature levels? All those on foot game mechanics like stacking of cargo, boarding and the likes? How will multi crew ships even work? We've seen a demo of a couple of guys fighting in an Aquilla, but apart from manning the turrets, what are the players not occupying the pilot seat doing the rest of the time? Will they read the map? That's maybe realistic for a navigator, but not necessarily a fulfilling game mechanic. How will boardings work? How will boarders stop a moving ship, how will they enter a moving ship, how will they take over a moving ship? Will that happen in the general universe where everybody in that game instance can see the boarding and help either side? Will it happen in an instanced pocket of the game's universe, similar to normal flight instances/signal sources in super cruise from Elite Dangerous? What minerals will players be able to mine, where can they sell them, what will they be able to craft out of them? How will the background simulation work or will it all be player driven?
We haven't seen half of them working as an integrated game or even fully working by themselves, yet. Unless they're only showing off a fraction of what is implemented and working at the moment, the end of 2016 seems awfully close to implement, integrate, test, iterate and balance all of that thoroughly.
I've lowered my expectations a lot a least. From what little I've played of Freelancer, my gut feeling is that Star Citizen will become a lot like a more complex version of it. Even down to the mouse controls, unless they overhaul ship controls considerably in the future. Very desirable IMO (the general mechanical similarities to Freelancer, not the ship controls
), but not as grand and seamless in scale as I perhaps foolishly imagined the game becoming at first. And by the time of release - I fear - in parts severely unfinished and lacking a lot of the features they've talked about, unless CIG is a lot further along with the PU than they're letting on so far. I actually have the most hope for Squadron 42, because a campaign segmented into missions seems a lot less complex to implement than an integrated PU.
Intrigued what they'll have to show at Gamescom.
My personal hype-ball for the game has deflated considerably since I started loosely following it at the end of last year. I dimly remember tentative promises (?) of some Sq42 missions and the PU alpha for the end of this year. Now that The Star Marine alpha has been delayed to who-knows-when though and I still see new and big ship concepts popping up sporadically (Starliner recently), I'm beginning to lose some faith that the game will even be in a releasable state at the end of next year.
The issue I'm beginning to see is that they'll overwhelm themselves with the amount of features they promise. On paper, all of what they present in terms of design may sound great, but somebody has to implement all of that. What's worse: It all has to be tested and iterated, otherwise all those features are pretty much guaranteed to be a bug riddled mess. It seems they are trying to gamify every single in game system there is. Passenger transport? Mining? Discovery of routes to different systems through wormholes? Different versions of that personal arm computer thingy with various feature levels? All those on foot game mechanics like stacking of cargo, boarding and the likes? How will multi crew ships even work? We've seen a demo of a couple of guys fighting in an Aquilla, but apart from manning the turrets, what are the players not occupying the pilot seat doing the rest of the time? Will they read the map? That's maybe realistic for a navigator, but not necessarily a fulfilling game mechanic. How will boardings work? How will boarders stop a moving ship, how will they enter a moving ship, how will they take over a moving ship? Will that happen in the general universe where everybody in that game instance can see the boarding and help either side? Will it happen in an instanced pocket of the game's universe, similar to normal flight instances/signal sources in super cruise from Elite Dangerous? What minerals will players be able to mine, where can they sell them, what will they be able to craft out of them? How will the background simulation work or will it all be player driven?
We haven't seen half of them working as an integrated game or even fully working by themselves, yet. Unless they're only showing off a fraction of what is implemented and working at the moment, the end of 2016 seems awfully close to implement, integrate, test, iterate and balance all of that thoroughly.
I've lowered my expectations a lot a least. From what little I've played of Freelancer, my gut feeling is that Star Citizen will become a lot like a more complex version of it. Even down to the mouse controls, unless they overhaul ship controls considerably in the future. Very desirable IMO (the general mechanical similarities to Freelancer, not the ship controls
), but not as grand and seamless in scale as I perhaps foolishly imagined the game becoming at first. And by the time of release - I fear - in parts severely unfinished and lacking a lot of the features they've talked about, unless CIG is a lot further along with the PU than they're letting on so far. I actually have the most hope for Squadron 42, because a campaign segmented into missions seems a lot less complex to implement than an integrated PU.Intrigued what they'll have to show at Gamescom.
If you're expecting 2016, prepare to be disappointed. Hell, I'm not even expecting the first episode of SQ42 to hit until mid-2016 to be honest with all of the problems they've been getting especially since I'm expecting the FPS side of the game to be big in SQ42.
This is how Gamescom will go.
Chris Roberts ride on stage with his new Bugatti Veyron. After saying "Without your help, this wouldn't be possible", a giant helicopter appears from nowhere. It throws out a ladder, and Chris grabs on. Chris says "So long, suckers" and flies off to the Cayman Islands.
Meanwhile, we find out Star Citizen has been sold to Supercell and an iOS version will launch soon, with SQ42 and the PU being put indefinitely on hold.
Chris Roberts ride on stage with his new Bugatti Veyron. After saying "Without your help, this wouldn't be possible", a giant helicopter appears from nowhere. It throws out a ladder, and Chris grabs on. Chris says "So long, suckers" and flies off to the Cayman Islands.
Meanwhile, we find out Star Citizen has been sold to Supercell and an iOS version will launch soon, with SQ42 and the PU being put indefinitely on hold.
Heh, game isnt developed in waterfall. One module doesnt block other from development.
Network or animation problems dont block designers from creating levels and engagement or artists from creating guns and effects.
The delay of network or animation can increase the testing period of linked components, but full scope tests do not take more than month or two.
How do you think those of us who have been here since October 2012 feel? We were promised a game by December 2014.
scroll down a bit https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14354-Letter-From-The-Chairman
and this talks a bit about the shield management specifically https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14489-Shields-Management
I can't find any articles relevant to your line of questioning here maybe it's been answered in videos, which are harder to search but I'll try to answer you off the cuff. I don't think you can really board a moving ship; you have to disable it. You disable it by destroying its engines and maneuvering jets without destroying the rest of the ship (which seems almost impossible to me, given how Arena Commander plays, but whatever). I think there will be "leech" type missiles that basically EMP targets, too, so that would work.
Everything in space happens in an instance. If you're in an area of interest, like near a jump point or an asteroid field or a planet, you're seemlessly (it's hoped, heh) in an instance of that area along with about 100 other players (it's hoped, heh) and probably a bunch of NPCs. There could be 10,000 players at that area of interest, but they'll be grouped into 100 instances of 100 people each. You can't really jump between instances (but the game will automatically put you into the same instance as the people on your friends list) so the whole universe won't see a ship being boarded, just the people in that instance. I'm sure that players can join in the fight however they want by just doing whatever they want to do.
I don't know how similar that is to Elite Dangerous because I've never played that game.
They do have a simulation of the economy running on a server now and they're tweaking it I think I remember hearing them say that in a video or two. For further reading: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/13128-The-Star-Citizen-Economy
CIG is in fact further along than it's let on. For some reason, they keep much of the project status a secret. They don't even say everything they're up to in the monthly reports (we know this because of the big leak of their torrent revealing tons of Vanduul ships that they've never mentioned as being worked on in the monthly reports). So things probably are not as dire as they seem, but at the same time, I doubt they're sitting on a dozen finished systems for the PU already. They seem to have spent most of their resources in the last year working on stuff for Squadron 42, and the FPS stuff is apparently a big part of that, so the FPS module (Star Marine) consequently has been worked on a lot over the last year, too.
Dictator93
Member
I wonder when 1.1.5. will launch on the PTU
Xplatformer
Member
Does Squadron 42 have multiplayer? No? Then it'll be out this year.
The FPS delays have been due to net code.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
When was the last time a milestone release was on time lol. I'd say mid 2016 the earliest with late 2016 fir S42.
Don't really care about the delays over the core gameplay, and if it will be even worth playing outside of a tech demo.
I've always been half expecting Chris Roberts to just disappear like that, but it's been a few years and it hasn't happened yet.
Still half expecting it though.
Squadron 42 does have multi-player. Squadron 42 is supposed to have co-op.
Quoted verbatim from the FPS report:
Sounds like a lot more than net code holding it up. And if it hasn't been fun, what does that say for Squadron 42's first person gameplay? No way it'll be out this year.
Zalusithix
Member
If it ever does happen, I'm hoping that the SC community would pay off any potential remaining debt so that the assets could be released to the public. At least that's my "even a complete failure wont be the end of the world" rationale. Star Citizen has produced tons of high quality content already that would be highly beneficial to the mod/indie community if it was all placed in the public domain.
Thanks Danthrax, I'll look into the links. Most of the things I imagine working pretty much like you describe, but unless they'll show a mostly integrated running build at Gamescom, I doubt a public 2016 PU release is in the realm of possible.
That's pretty much how Elite works, albeit with a maximum of 32 players in an instance iirc.. If you're into Star Citizen it might be worth checking out, despite its still numerous flaws.
It seems to be a running joke, but has CR a history of doing that with unfinished projects? He seems ultimately passionate for SC, so I'd hope he has a very real interest in releasing at least something.
Zalusithix
Member
It's just a joke. There's no chance this will happen without the project going bankrupt first. This is as much of a passion project for him as it is a business. I don't give him so much credit that I think he'll pour his own funds into the project if it falls on rough times, but he's not going to jump ship on it just because he has enough money. Given that the project is still pulling in more money in a month than many crowd funded projects see total, I don't see bankruptcy as a reasonable risk in the near term.
staticneuron
Member
The amount of information released in the leak should have been enough to give a glimpse of how much we "do not" know about the project and that they are progressing along at a strong clip. I am not surprised though at the skepticism though because most don't follow the project that closely.
No. Whether we are talking about wing commander, star lancer, freelancer or even movie projects he has worked on, he has seem most of them to completion unless being asked to step away (freelancer 2 iirc)
Bad netcode can zap the fun out of any game. Have you played BF4 at launch? I loved the series but it is frustrating when the netcode is failing or lagging in the MP environment.
Xane
Member
The early prototype he developed 2012 to showcase at GDC was funded out of his own pockets entirely.
Zalusithix
Member
Funding a prototype with a few people and funding continued development with a few hundred people are rather different things. The latter would have serious risk of bankrupting him. It takes a person extremely passionate about something to risk everything on it.
Xplatformer
Member
We'll, if Squadron 42 is expected to have online multiplayer then it wont be out this year.
They can deactivate online for a first release if it wont be still finished. Thats not a problem.
I figure compared to the full netcode rewrite co-op would be simple. If it's already being designed with co-op in mind it only needs to handle 2-4 players compared to the dozens they want for SC instances.
Here are a few interesting things I found on /r/starcitizen today:
And MassivelyOP defending Star Citizen.
Another big update on the state of Star Marine with a video of the visual effects:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14829-Star-Marine-Status-Update
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14829-Star-Marine-Status-Update
CyberPunked
Member
Nice video showing some of the VFX on one of the FPS maps: https://player.vimeo.com/video/133192308
Dictator93
Member
Vigilant Walrus
Member
hmmm. What is it about this that looks off?
First of all: I am very impressed that they are adding this. Even most FPS games don't get this why. When it comes to particles F.E.A.R is still the best, and that is 10 years old. When you shoot the walls in FEAR massive chunks separate from the world. It was awesome.
Here. There is a disconnect or a delay, but I still love it. They are going above and beyond with this. I hope they can make the shooting really tight, then we are on to something!
Dictator93
Member
probably 30fps.
But also, the video, for some reason, was recorded when not running at the highest settings. You can tell when he fires the assault rifle (no muzzle flash shadow) and the general lack of environmental shadows.
CyberPunked
Member
On a technical level, the particles in Star Citizen are far beyond anything in FEAR, even if there aren't as many.
Again, this is still years from being complete, and a large amount of visual polish comes in the last part of development.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Yes of course! I'm super impressed!
Can you play in third person mode when shooting?
And can you design the look of your character (face, hairstyle, gender, skin color?)
CyberPunked
Member
Dictator93
Member
I am not a subscriber sadly !Can someone help me out? I can't find the puglisi space rock and scythe chunk in the asteroid hangar
Zalusithix
Member
I'm pretty sure flair objects are bugged, and have been bugged for some time. (At least with my packed Revel hanger.) Only a fraction of the things I should have ever show up. What shows up is a toss up. The rock that was there before is no longer there. The Starfarer model is now showing up, but outside of a case and floating in mid air. The boxes for the Mustangs aren't showing up next to the case that they're normally at. No patron of the arts, no space globes, etc. Not really something I lose sleep over. They show up on my hanger page, so I know I have them. I figure they'll eventually show up in the hanger proper.
Xplatformer
Member
I figure compared to the full netcode rewrite co-op would be simple. If it's already being designed with co-op in mind it only needs to handle 2-4 players compared to the dozens they want for SC instances.
Here are a few interesting things I found on /r/starcitizen today:
And MassivelyOP defending Star Citizen.
I think a lot of people expected the long development time, but I guess originally CIG left initial backers with the impression that they could get something out in less than 3 years. I guess.
Game is too big for a realistic expectation to be under 4 years development time. imo
Can someone help me out? I can't find the puglisi space rock and scythe chunk in the asteroid hangar
Go out the entrance door... down the ramp.
mercenar1e
Member
the "best damn space simulator" downgraded to a passable space simulator would be pretty disastrous and if that's the case CR backed himself into a corner with his original campaign followed by everything else that was said since. i hope he can pull it off but my feeling is its not going to be anywhere near what he promised.
Xplatformer
Member
Question.
What has kept other developers from attempting what CIG is attempting? Serious question.
Probably $$$ and time required to accomplish it right?
Thanks for the help! Didn't think those doors opened. Found the puglisi stuff and a plaque, so I think everything that should be in the hangar is there now.
Also played through the tutorial mission for the first time. That was pretty awesome and way more comprehensive than I thought it would be. Really pleased with that
Also played through the tutorial mission for the first time. That was pretty awesome and way more comprehensive than I thought it would be. Really pleased with that
mercenar1e
Member
i guess its the publishers that aren't willing to put up the money and time for a game this ambitious.. or maybe its incredibly difficult for anyone to pull off. i am pretty sure if this was a game under EA or Ubisoft everyone in here would describe it as being in development hell but its CR and he has OUR money and its incredibly hard for some people to accept.
Aceshighhhh
Member
Don't talk like that... Tony Z is bearing 95% of my hype for this game
Those sights look kinda bad. Actual reflector sights create an image that appears to be at an infinite distance, which makes the reticle appear in line with the direction of the barrel.
The sights in this game look like a piece of glass with a sticker on it. There is no way of accurately telling in which direction it is pointing. I hope they're going to make it more realistic.
CyberPunked
Member
Those sights look kinda bad. Actual reflector sights create an image that appears to be at an infinite distance, which makes the reticle appear in line with the direction of the barrel.
The sights in this game look like a piece of glass with a sticker on it. There is no way of accurately telling in which direction it is pointing. I hope they're going to make it more realistic.
Not sure you noticed, but the gifs are just backgrounds with renders of the guns overlayed over the top... they're so far from being finished they're not actual in game....
Star Citizen is an MMO that's been in development for less than three years. And that's including the time it took CIG to expand from ~15 employees to over 200. I'm concerned about the lack of public-facing code but let's not exaggerate.
Just in case you missed it, this is the development timeframe for games with comparable scale:
They have a ways to go before I'd consider it development hell.
Hmm yes. Didn't see that.
mercenar1e
Member
we are all going to wait 7 years to get our hands on an alpha.. pathetic.
Zalusithix
Member
On the sights, the oddest one is the holo one. It'd be useless to have both the ring and the dot located at the front of the weapon. The ring should be projected at the back, and the dot at the front of the gun. Basically merge the ghost and holo concepts.
The Dear Leader
Banned
I think all of them but the ghost sight are bad looking. They all looked too big and bulky and not very well designed.
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