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Star Wars Outlaws' Director: 'Bad Faith' Discourse About Protagonist's Appearance 'Not Worth Engaging In'
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
Pegasus Actual
Member
Okay final take, free Luma takes way too long to iterate.
Sound on please. It took extra work, thanks.
BlackTron
Member
My guess is reviews makes the game sound twice as good as it is, which is still enough for good initial sales of Star Wars game, plus a very long tail of people buying in at $10-20, whom deconstruct the failings of the old reviews while playing the game anyway.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
FalsettoVibe
Member
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
that is more terrifying than most of the horror games out there.
Effigenius
Member
You have to love the logic here. ‘I have determined that some of the people who are upset are arguing in bad faith so I will ignore everyone’s opinions.”
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Well...maybe, I don't even know if the initial sales care about reviews. Maybe like the follow up sales or something, but the first sales out of the gate likely are users that simply don't care about such things.
I'm buying it day 1. What the review was about the game is irrelevant to me, good or bad tbh. The team has a solid track record and I'm ok with what I've seen.
If it was a new team or something, I think I'd be more on the fence, but even then I don't think I'd use reviews to see if its good or not, I'd just watch someone playing it via stream or something.
So I think chances are, the reviews might be more used around that $40 or $30 mark when its on sale for the holidays or something and someone wants to know if its good or bad etc.
So I think it will likely sell well based on the combination of Massive, Ubisoft as publisher, Star Wars IP, open world. Not all Star Wars games sell well just like Spiderman and Harry Potter etc, but the right combination can see some massive sales, I think they have that combination right now and the real test is not going to be those initial sales, it will be the follow up this fall and the coming years.
To some degree because they (try to) imitate real life cameras. You can try it out by going into any game with a photo mode that supports focal length or FOV setting (e.g. TLOU, Uncharted 4, Horizon Forbidden West). Leave any setting at default and go up close to any face so takes the majority of the whole frame. Now go physically back with the camera and decrease FOV/increase focal length until the face takes as much space of the frame as before. You'll see the difference.
BlackTron
Member
Far more people care about how it reviews initially than care about which team made it. For most of the people who can discern deeper than "Star Wars Game", all they will see is Ubisoft. 80-90% of people who ever buy it will never recall the specific team that worked on it, but nearly everyone will be exposed to some discourse on the game, reviews or otherwise.
Reviews make a huge deal for a games initial perception and sales. The fact that you anecdotally will buy it regardless of reviews can't be extrapolated to the masses.
If the game scored 3's across the board (which is practically impossible), of course there would be a group buying it day one no matter what, but it wouldn't be enough for Ubisoft/Disney to feel it was enough even for that time period. Sales would still be crushed by bad impressions. Of course, that's why if this game was really a 3, there would be a media blackout and review embargo to correct that so this situation would not happen. If it's a 6/7 okay/meh game, we'll get sucking off journalists to make it a 9/10. Having never played the game, this is where I think we are.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Sure but, we've seen reviews like with Hogwarts with someone giving it a 0/10 lol
With games like this, I don't know how much the majority really care about reviews. I mean, look at Call Of Duty MW3, last year everyone had their hate and smear campaigns on it, with reviews like 6/10 or 4/10. To my understanding, its one of the worst reviewed Call Of Duty titles
Yet that didn't really stop it from moving millions upon millions of units.
https://kotaku.com/call-of-duty-mw3-mwiii-sales-numbers-top-selling-2023-1851096501
So those scores didn't hurt Hogwarts
Those scores didn't hurt COD
I don't really buy that the vast majority actually really care about reviews tbh
I mean, look at Game Informer , its literally shutting down, that doesn't support some idea that someone holds deep values in those reviews, I don't even know if anyone reviewer Youtube has views that support majority go to them before a purchase or something, as it would mean they'd be getting well over 20 plus million views about COD or Assassins Creed reviews or something lol
I think this is a very safe bet that, majority of gamers may not really look into those things or care about reviews to make any purchase. (that isn't to say someone doesn't btw, merely that I don't know enough do for any of this to matter)
BlackTron
Member
Honestly man, I was about to try to respond to some of these points as a real conversation, but when you see someone point to Game Informer closing down as evidence of people not caring about reviews, where do you even go from there?
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Lol yea, don't get to hung up on that, merely an example that such a thing isn't really what the majority value.
^ so...I say this for a reason.
BlackTron
Member
I think it's a shitty example of "such things the majority value". GI didn't die because people don't care about reviews, they died because they are a print magazine and people read a screen now.
I could say this is painfully obvious to anyone paying attention but then you will raise the font size of "obvious" and all that. No thanks I'm not engaging today.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
lol you trigger way too easily Tron lol
The example is merely to show majority may not care about those things, GI also did video reviews, so yes...people read on screen now, yet even on video format this company could not be saved as I feel there transition to social media was maybe a bit too slow and it may have been too late.
vs
Even bigger videos like 14 million
That is even below the amount that actually bought the game
https://www.ign.com/articles/cyberpunk-2077-surpasses-25-million-units-sold-outpacing-the-witcher-3
So i'm not saying its the sole reason, but I feel part of the reason is majority simply do not see reviews as this always, must watch before buying a game or something.
As to why Hogwarts and COD still moved units even with some wild reviews. Either way, I do not see reviews doing much for or against Star Wars outlaws in regards to the majority.
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BlackTron
Member
"Game Informer dying proves people don't really care about reviews."
"Well actually them dying can be explained by not adapting to social media fast enough as evidenced by these Youtube videos. But...they still died bc ppl don't care about reviews"
This is why I choose not to engage your points, no matter what you do it always devolves into some nonsensical word salad.
Humdinger
Gold Member
Sorry, I'm just not buying it. I have several reasons. 1) I can see the increased facial girth throughout that trailer. It is there in multiple other shots, either up close or at a medium range. The screenshot in the meme is particularly unflattering, I admit. 2) I don't see the "fat-face" effect when the camera is zoomed in on Erend. If it's some strange artifact created by the camera being close, why would the effect obtain with Aloy but not with other characters in the same trailer? 3) Although videogame camera "try to" imitate real-life cameras, they aren't the same, so we can't assume we'll get the same fish-eye distortion effect up close; further, the experiment you described involves a deliberate manipulation, and I can't know whether the devs used that same manipulation; 5) Many games have closeups of characters during cutscenes. I have never noticed (for example) Nathan Drake or Kratos' face looking fat in a closeup cutscene.
A word about the "fat-face" moniker. I don't think it's really so much about "fat-face" as about a "de-beautified" face generally. There are multiple changes to her character model - not just increased facial girth but changes to the shape of her skull, to her hair, and to her complexion. They all contribute to making her noticeably less attractive. "Fat-faced Aloy" has become a meme, but it would be more accurate to say "considerably-less-attractive Aloy." However, that doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, so we're stuck with "fat-face."
Anyhow, that's enough talk about Aloy from me. Don't want to derail the thread further.
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In that particular scene they chose an angle imitating the POV of that character on the ground and Aloy is moving her face closer to him/ the lense (or the "viewport", which is technically more accurate in video games). In traditional cutscenes you don't have that movement towards lenses without cuts or focal length adjustments. You usually have a close up shot for portraits, and the character's face remains somewhat static in terms of distance to the camera. And If the camera is physically far away, faces can still move forward without distortion. If the camera is physically up close, like in that POV source, because the character on the ground is close to her, even subtle moments towards the camera can distorted the face easily.
Also, with higher fov objects at the edges, too, get heavily distorted and stretched. Doesn't apply in this here case but still an example how fov changes the look of an image even in video games with "fake" camera (the viewport renders 3D space/rooms onto a flat surface after all).
We also should keep in mind that modern games use virtual camera systems with the blend of motion capturing, especially for cutscenes. Chances are high they used a real camera for certain cutscenes. If you're interested in the topic I'd recommend this article which points out many interesting details on FOV and camera in video games.
Oh, and her face is a bit more rounded than in the prequel. Not denying that. Just thinking it's a little blown out of proportions (uh..). I'm all in for attractive characters, enjoying playing Stellar Blade, for instance. Overall I think Aloy is still a fine looking woman. Not overly doll-like, or with always perfect taint, facial complexion, etc., more like a everyday natural good looking woman.
As for Star Wars... that character on the other hand received completely different facial features, not just a little fat around the jaw-line. This is something I personally don't like and I don't agree with their take and found the original character much better.
rubik's dude
Member
All of this is why I wish gaming would crash and burn tbh. We need a forest fire to start fresh and get back to what gaming was: escapism from this shit.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
I dont think its fair to compare GI to IGN. IGN is a corporation, GI were small time.
Shadowstar39
Member
Yeah, I don't get it, its not like its a butch short style. Where was all this outrage when Obsidian released Outer worlds. A game that had all the female characters except one having short male hair styles and ugly faces? Where was it? People who pointed it out were met with walls of people defending the uglification and saying "not everything has to be someone you want to screw...bigot..reee" .
Which isn't the point, it's deflection. That game was the worst offender yet it had the smallest backlash , and to this day I don't get it.
This game has a main character that don't look too bad, she looks like a woman at least, and has long hair. Who cares if its feathered. That style was popular in the 70s and 80s. As someone born in the 70s and who watched a lot of tv and movies from the era i have no problem with it at all.
Now the chin and face compared to the model is off, as well as the curves. De-feminizing a character for esg/dei is ridiculous and must be mocked and called out. Just like Xbox calling for no curvy women characters... wtf... It's preposterous.
The hair style is the last of the problems and calling that just detracts from the other issues. All they had to do is make her face and body similar to the actor and bam no controversy.
Randall365
Member
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Bernardougf
Member
Sonic was sloppy work that could be improved and was... this is made on purpose with probably ideology reasons, so no fcking chance they will acknowledge anything, in fact its more probable they double down and make her even uglier and more manly
Is it still too late to do something about this? They fixed Sonic!
Making a beautiful actress to a ugly one mixed with male traits is the current woke trend agenda. I don’t dislike ogre looking woman in games. I simply don’t want more woke products and I think it’s obvious Ubi is embracing this, if you can’t understand from my comment, you are even more retard I thought.
Ev1L AuRoN
Member
At the end of the day, people will vote with their wallets. If people don't buy the game, make a better product next time. Stop blaming the consumer.
Woopah
Member
Thank you for expanding!
But why is that linked to the quality of the game? If the character designer wants the main character to look like that, it doesn't mean the development team as a whole sees the character's looks as more important than game quality right?
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Based on many similar cases, we can safely assume the story will be shit and the overall game mediocre. The looks of the characters is the tip of the iceberg. Certain creative decisions lead to certain end products, there's a clear link between the two.
Besides, people who don't care about the character looks don't care about quality, either. It's disingenuous to think otherwise. Same as writers who don't care about their book covers, we can bet what's inside is also shit cos they don't care for their work.
Woopah
Member
I wouldn't say it is always the case, Control and Horizon Forbidden West were well received for instance.
Not that I'm saying Outlaws will definitely be good, but I don't believe attributes like level design, combat systems, exploration mechanics etc. are notably affected by decisions on the attractiveness of the protagonist.
Bernardougf
Member
HFW was very divisive between the previous game fanbase, the game was quickly forgotten and quickly added to ps+... I dont think was that well received by gamers in general (I dont count reviews and accolades, they mean absolutely nothing in the access/woke media age)
A lot of lower quality sequels from sony sold well this gen (and the last one counting tlou2) riding brand and first game success and they were all somewhat divisive and/or criticized... truth is the quality and quantity coming out from sony western HQ has diminished greatly thanks to probably heavily DEI practices, cant confirm obviousl, but seems the plague affecting entertainment media in general. lets hope it dosent affect every studio and better/greater games can surprise us until the end of the gen..
PeteBull
Member
Ofc they do, but fk playing as one, and its not bad angle/lighting/accident, its deliberate and malicious intent by the woke devs, no need to defend big corpo like ubisoft, let them eat that bug sandwitch that they just made
PeteBull
Member
Thats how feminist acts when they find out we dont care about womens carrier/money/education etc when looking for a gf/longterm partner, which gives us valid cause to lie to them on a daily basis when we just looking for sex
Woopah
Member
I'm not too worried personally since I really enjoyed Ragnarok and Forbidden West. Games are taking longer and longer to develop but that's mostly due to graphic demands getting higher and higher.
Bernardougf
Member
Thats the devs choice... elden ring sold very well and is not by any means a graphical powerhouse, the same for nintendo and other games, the longer dev times are multi-factorial , mostly tied to devs choices plus a work force compromised by the later years hiring choices and practices. I dont believe the ridiculous times we are getting is just "because".
Western gaming is going through some ruf times imho and the way things are going, I really dont care... Asia is there pumping out great games.. so if people want to take 7 years to pump out woke shit with male looking woman and awful writing from blue hair minds be my guest. My money has a place to be spent
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sloppyjoe_gamer
Gold Member
Expect many of the main gaming sites to praise this game on release, if only for the fact all of these freaks want to stick together with pushing that all of this is "in our heads" and that there really isn't anything going on. I will see how sites like GAF review this game and make my decision from there.
The main character looks nothing like the actress they used for her, basically all of her female features have been altered and this shaggy haired mangal looks atrocious. You can also take the fact that they're going with the "super woman godly" angle too based on her being able to slap a stormtrooper in the head and it knocks him out LOL
If you want to say that none of that bothers you and that you'll still get the game, then fine. But don't sit there and continue to attempt to gaslight everyone else who can clearly see what is happening here, just like with so many western dev game releases the last few years.
The main character looks nothing like the actress they used for her, basically all of her female features have been altered and this shaggy haired mangal looks atrocious. You can also take the fact that they're going with the "super woman godly" angle too based on her being able to slap a stormtrooper in the head and it knocks him out LOL
If you want to say that none of that bothers you and that you'll still get the game, then fine. But don't sit there and continue to attempt to gaslight everyone else who can clearly see what is happening here, just like with so many western dev game releases the last few years.
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PeteBull
Member
Dont forget those recent disneyland trips for previewers aka future reviewers, some of them are so entitled that they complained about not getting one (like DF in their weekly podcast
.
Bernardougf
Member
Judging by the Olympics and its decisions the French are the same if not worst in this matters
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Winter John
Member
I don‘t wanna say anything mean about her looks but Lou ReedAre you guys trying to say a young sigourney running around the whole time in no bra and underwear wasn't hot enough?
Woopah
Member
It is absolutely a choice, and I think a lot of problem's could be solved if graphics weren't pushed as much.
For example, I'm playing a Ubisoft game currently which doesn't push graphics (Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown) and it's fantastic.
Salz01
Member
I thought that’s one of the reasons why everybody doesn’t like Star Wars Outlaws.…
Trilobit
Member
It would be hilarious to see you walking around in a museum in southern Europe. "OMG! Why do you have so much FAP MATERIAL here?! You're disgusting! Yuck!"
kurisu_1974
Member
I think the problem is not that we want to fuck them, we are just wondering what there is to gain by uglifying game characters. It is the underlying politics that are being questioned. Your response is pure strawmanning.
feynoob
Banned
Why should I scream about it? That is fine damn art. It's there to show the skill of the artist. It's not the same thing as a video game.It would be hilarious to see you walking around in a museum in southern Europe. "OMG! Why do you have so much FAP MATERIAL here?! You're disgusting! Yuck!"
Nude Woman Sculpture & Statue for Sale - The Ancient Home
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theancienthome.com
Because it's an art and the devs can choose whatever the art they want to use. They have no obligation to satisfy your desire or whatever your views are.
People need to realize that. Ugly or hot, that is their choice. Do you want people to tell you what you have to draw or make? What is the point of making something, if people only want their own version?
Outrages makes sense on something like this. Saved the movie and allowed the studio to make more sequels.
Trilobit
Member
Why should I scream about it? That is fine damn art. It's there to show the skill of the artist. It's not the same thing as a video game.
The artist could have chosen to sculpt a donkey instead and it still would have been impressive. The one I posted above was a beauty ideal for women of the time and it was something pleasing to look at. To say that an attractive woman in a game is fap material because they are good-looking ignores the inclusion of beautiful women in art for millenniums. People wanting women to look feminine and fit and not androgynous has more to do with what is visually pleasing to behold rather than something that is sexually enticing. The spectrum is wider than neutral <-> horny.