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Star Wars: The Old Republic [Early Access: December 13th] Thread 2
- Thread starter Emitan
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Where's the Morn happy face pic?
lol nice
I believe they simply ran out of time when they did Kaas and Coruscant. They finished Kaas and then had to scramble together what they now call Coruscant.
At least I hope that's what happened. It would be pretty sad if the planet looks and feels like Bioware wanted.
Yaska
Member
He wrote it pretty well. Kudos for him to actually take the time to write that all.
cartoon_soldier
Member
He makes some valid points, some I don't agree with (cover system, companion AI) and some of the other points that sound too minor to effect whether you play the game or not (World clicking, Dead NPC names). Skill queue, I have no idea what he means, but you can put the combat queue to 0 seconds and eliminate it completely. I have it at 0.25 seconds for a short duration queue ability. No summons is not a backwards mechanic...being upset at CD on non-healer Resurrection (I think one of the best thing SWTOR does is that every class has a self heal and rez but you can't give everybody a no CD rez)
The only upcoming game that may attack the established MMO mechanics is Guild Wars 2. SWTOR is not that game.
He makes good endgame points as well (unkillable bosses in the hard modes, bugged Eternity Vault).
cartoon_soldier
Member
As someone considering purchasing this game, this is actually a good read, thanks for the link.
He supposedly has the knowledge to make his assessment, and it seems fair and valid. While his points won't effect my purchasing decision, he really put some thought and work into that. That said, I think if you can sink 350 hours into a game in three months, maybe it's worth the $90 price tag ($60 initial cost and $30 for two more months). Of course, not for him, since he has already burnt himself out on it.
The responses are sad but not really surprising.
"OH NO THE GAME IS PERFECT FOR ME, BEST GAME EVER, U JUST SUX".
cartoon_soldier
Member
Holy Shit, apparently, for crafting companions can use items in your ship's storage.
WOOHO
WOOHO
Yes because the idea is that when they aren't out, they're sitting on your ship waiting for you.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Female Commando Shepard makes it really hard to stick to my Scoundrel/Vanguard plans.
Sucks that Vanguards can't carry Assault Cannons.
I'm actually kind of tempted to go Vanguard and just tank rather than play Commando. I love the armor but I'm not as fond of the cannon, really. It's not awful or anything but the rifles seem cooler to me. Admittedly I also want to be able to Harpoon people in warzones...
They're just codex entries labled as achievements. There's one for datacrons, one for epic enemies (end boss in Black Talon for example), and one for titles.
From your bank too.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Definitely agree on the companions. No way in hell is there enough content for them. They're around you for hours on end and occasionally comment on stuff. There should have been alot more dialogue for them and stuff other than their missions.
Also agree with the grinding component. Many of the quests in of themselves are boring as shit and at a certain point you feel like you're grinding with quests instead of enemies. This becomes extremely noticeable on Taris/Belmorra.
The worst part though is the stories. The Imperials have noticeably better side quests but overall it's just not up to snuff for alot of them. Also the lack of any impact really hurts the game.
I will say that after looking over the skills and talents the Commando actually looks like a really boring class compared to others. So that's that.
Great read.
To be honest, from looking at the advanced class skill trees during beta, this is the impression I was getting. The skill trees for my Bounty Hunter seemed to indicate extremely poor class design.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Could someone paste the contents of those two forum links? It keeps saying I don't have permission to read it for some reason.
Extra Sauce
Member
I need to know who this eye-melting beauty is.
Contrary to what some people here said, I almost disagree from what he said on all points.
- It's mechanically the same as WoW. CC, kiting, AoE, it's all there. Only big difference is the lack of auto-attack, which I like how it is different and how they force the basic attack to be in the rotation. (Remember the hunter solo videos? Already happening in ToR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZQerOSv7pw)
- Story is probably the only reason I want to play this game. The dude's just complaining about how Bioware's alignment system isn't Witcher 2. As far as I can tell, I'm here knowing I'm playing a KotOR sequel, and I'm getting it.
- TOR has done some effort to reduce the grind. The main quest significantly reduces the requirements while the Bonus Object carries the grind. As bonus objectives are clearly labeled as not required, it doesn't feel grindy when you do it. Profession grinding, which is ultimately the worst grind sink in WoW, is done really well in TOR. Also, space combat leveling can put breaks in between the grind.
- The Anti-Hero thing, I don't get. Maybe he hasn't seen any Star Wars movies, or seen Luke go on a bombing run and blow up the Death Star. Then he argues about class mechanics not being "iconic" because it should be like DCUO. Give me a break. No one in the movie heal or tank, so complaining that the game isn't "iconic" while referencing nothing is absurd.
- Planet instancing is better than WoW's seamless "I'm stepping from a desert to a lush forest" for suspending disbelief. Story phases are ingenious to prevent stupid queues for mob kills on important storyline missions.
- Companions are probably the best thing in this game. They allow any class to be viable leveling. Sure, a WoW tank can still level, but it takes way too long and way too boring. And why the hell are you tanking? Tanking against one mob or a group? The companion forces you to play your role.
The rest of his comments, I wouldn't be able to judge without playing more. Items do seem about the same as WoW.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Highest kills on Huttball...wooho
This is fun
Edit: I also have no idea how to play huttball and score
This is fun
Edit: I also have no idea how to play huttball and score
From what I have seen of the stress tests. His points seem valid.
The game really dies off after lvl 20 or so.
It is just Mass Effect with a monthly fee with storytelling that dies off.
On the Sith Warrior, it definitely gets better. Also started getting the companion quests around that level.
LowParry
Member
Well that's a load of crap. From level 20 onward in my experience, everything opened up in terms of the world I was on, and the story starts to get rather interesting (however, there were some really neat side quests that talked about some aspects of KOTOR).
I disagree as well. From the Imperial Agent perspective, the story got even better the higher I went in leveling. I got to level 25 on the last beta weekend and I wanted to keep playing simply to know what was going to happen next.
Spiritreaver
Member
I had more shit to do on Tatooine than the previous planets and I still left before finishing everything. No to mention I skipped a lot of heroic quests along the way. I don't get how anything "drops off" after 20.
I hit Alderaan and the pace seemed to still be on track.
I hit Alderaan and the pace seemed to still be on track.
Disagree as well, the game got better actually after lvl 20, more interesing story and more interesting worlds.
Alex
Member
That post reads like burn out to me, which is understandable considering it's such a samey game. I think everyone will have a lot of fun blowing through the questing and story with a new look and feel and style but once questing fades after a few months and end game kicks in and it tries to poorly emulate WoW there will be problems with retention.
Unfair to say that, this early on, but they've not exactly mapped out the future so all you can do is speculate. I do worry about new content, I mean the type of asset work, scene direction, voice overs needed for every little thing has got to cause some problems with live content and I REALLY, REALLY don't think EA is going to hurl cash at the live team.
The mechanical breakdown is a lil' bit early, though, and highly nit picky. What matters is that everything is viable and functional and it seems like it is at the moment. Nothing ships mechanically foolproof or exceedingly well balanced you just need a situation like modern WoW, where you can bring a dude to your group regardless of spec, rather than classic WoW where 2/3rds of the specs could fuck off and die and the remaining ones are all one to two button wonders, buff bots, etc.
Unfair to say that, this early on, but they've not exactly mapped out the future so all you can do is speculate. I do worry about new content, I mean the type of asset work, scene direction, voice overs needed for every little thing has got to cause some problems with live content and I REALLY, REALLY don't think EA is going to hurl cash at the live team.
The mechanical breakdown is a lil' bit early, though, and highly nit picky. What matters is that everything is viable and functional and it seems like it is at the moment. Nothing ships mechanically foolproof or exceedingly well balanced you just need a situation like modern WoW, where you can bring a dude to your group regardless of spec, rather than classic WoW where 2/3rds of the specs could fuck off and die and the remaining ones are all one to two button wonders, buff bots, etc.
LowParry
Member
This is true. I probably skipped about 50% of those bonus quests. However, the areas where you can scavenge mobs and find nods comes in real handy. So those bonus quests come off good.
Alex
Member
I love grinding when the content swings back at you, I was pleased to see the open world dungeons and some elite mobs but it didn't feel like there was nearly enough. The best leveling stuff WoW ever had were those big elite zones where you'd group up with a friend or two and work (and die) through it.
The future of this vein of traditional MMO is scaling and options but it doesn't feel like anyone applies it to the goddamn leveling system, just end game. Guild Wars 2 is supposedly going to remedy this, but I'll believe it when I see it. I'm not some hardcore dude but man I am sick of encouraged solo play and no-threat leveling/world design. We're in a wierd place where MMOs have significantly less campaign grouping than standard online RPGs like Diablo or Phantasy Star outside of the rare dungeon trawl.
For as much as I play MMOs off and on I still don't understand why really why leveling or at least proper world consumption can't be more of a thing in these modern MMOs, why do we rush through 95% of the content in ~100 hours then spend the rest of the time in the remaining 5%?
The future of this vein of traditional MMO is scaling and options but it doesn't feel like anyone applies it to the goddamn leveling system, just end game. Guild Wars 2 is supposedly going to remedy this, but I'll believe it when I see it. I'm not some hardcore dude but man I am sick of encouraged solo play and no-threat leveling/world design. We're in a wierd place where MMOs have significantly less campaign grouping than standard online RPGs like Diablo or Phantasy Star outside of the rare dungeon trawl.
For as much as I play MMOs off and on I still don't understand why really why leveling or at least proper world consumption can't be more of a thing in these modern MMOs, why do we rush through 95% of the content in ~100 hours then spend the rest of the time in the remaining 5%?
The classes are awfully designed. Case in point: look at the talent trees for Bounty Hunter Power Tech. Each of the 3 trees has a talent that adds bonus damage to fire. There are also many redundant abilities (why bother using rockets with flame surge or vice versa?). The classes feel like WoW pre-WotLK. There's a reason WoW has been slowly progressing away from the awful talent tree system.
Giolon
Member
Class quests make between about 10-25% of the content of a planet.
Any given planet will have approximately 4-5 Quest Zones each containing:
- 1-3 Class Quests
- 1-3 Planetary Mainline Quests
- 4-6 Sidequests
While there is a grain of truth to nearly everything this guy said, some of it is just ridiculous.Morn said:
Oh noez! The raid is still buggy (while admitting WoW's initial raid was also buggy)!
OMG! The classes are the same on both sides but with different names! (I thought we knew this months ago - BTW, WoW's are exactly the same with the same names!)
Itemization is teh suck! (And clearly, it can never be fixed or rebalanced)
Crafting gear sucks more than Raid gear so nobody will ever buy it (Amazing how this is situation is true in WoW whenever it's not immediately after a new expansion and people still buy the stuff).
Ew, it uses WoW's old-style talent trees. (I happen to really like those talent trees, TYVM).
I just don't see any of these things as anywhere near the major problem this guy calls them out to be. Of course there are still going to be bugs. Of course itemization is going to need work. And surprise! The classes on both sides are the same like most MMOs. It's WoW in space. Yeah, we've known that for at least 6 months since the first beta leaks.
I think it's a well-built MMO, that while short on new ideas, is a lot of fun, and I can see myself spending a lot MORE time in this game (after the 6-mo of beta I've already put into it).
While some of his points may be overblown, the fact remains: what does SWTOR do better than other MMOs? The dialogue system is fun sometimes, I'll give you that. Otherwise? This seems like an incredibly average game to me.
Albeit, this is only from my early (~level 13) experience, but the game has not impressed me at all so far, other than some (finally, for Bioware) interesting evil choices.
The high points simply don't make up for the stunning mediocrity of the game, at least for me.
Albeit, this is only from my early (~level 13) experience, but the game has not impressed me at all so far, other than some (finally, for Bioware) interesting evil choices.
The high points simply don't make up for the stunning mediocrity of the game, at least for me.
It doesn't do anything better other than voice, from what I've played. Which I couldn't care less about.
Freyjadour
Member
Responses there are nauseating as I assumed they would be. I don't want this kind of community, don't want it at all.
TRACER MISSILE TRACER MISSILE TRACER MISSILE TRACER MISSILE. I'm sure there's a reason he's doing this, but I hope that skill use is more diversified.
krameriffic
Member
I totally agree with this. I never felt like any of the skills or talents I was gaining on my Sage were interesting or good in the slightest. It's got that old WoW thing where most of the talents are marginal % boosts to damage or healing and none of them have any real mechanics to them. At least in WoW most of the trees have pivotal talents that come to define how you play the class and you really look forward to acquiring them. Past about level 15 I had pretty much every skill of note and I wasn't looking forward to any other skills or talents for the next 35 levels. It's bad design when you don't get excited for your character's progression.
I don't even notice the difference that a lack of autoattack makes. I'm always using abilities in WoW. Having a bit less white damage is inconsequential.
I would much rather see unique classes with unique resource/combo systems. LOTRO, by comparison, feels more different than WoW due to the interesting and unique class mechanics (not discounting the other issues that game has).
I would much rather see unique classes with unique resource/combo systems. LOTRO, by comparison, feels more different than WoW due to the interesting and unique class mechanics (not discounting the other issues that game has).
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