antiquegamer
Member
I have play both and I have to said jedi/sith healer is better than Operative if anything they are easier to manage.
Oh got to 50 this morning and PVP suck for Operative also doesn't help with gear difference...
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- Thread starter Emitan
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I have play both and I have to said jedi/sith healer is better than Operative if anything they are easier to manage.
Oh got to 50 this morning and PVP suck for Operative also doesn't help with gear difference...
Fixed1979
Member
Thanks, 1.2 is anticipated for some time next month isn't it? If that's the case there's little to no chance I'll hit 50 on my alt before it releases.
actually, if you have a range class, its fun in lvl 50, melee class in Ilum? LOL
Fixed1979
Member
I still haven't even tried PVP on Ilum for this reason. I don't mind the WZ's though, having only recently turned 50 I'm not properly geared but I'm still having fun. I do run into a few players that I just can't kill so I avoid them completely.
BannedEpisode
Member
The best is being an empire healer on Ilum. Camping the republic base all day every day while spamming aoe heals on the horde of imps.
Weekly done in an hour or less.
razgriz417
Member
Can't wait for this, will make raid healing 16 man SOA much easier
Enosh
Member
well unlike so many people, I am enjoying the 50 one a lot more, I have all my abilities, all my talent points and after about a week of gearing up I never felt as if I died because of some strong gear difference
CAW
Member
35 maraduer, well geared, all slots up to level, etc.
Seems like after every ecounter (PvE), I have to stop and heal. It's pretty annoying. Am I doing something wrong? If I use Malavai Quinn it's not an issue, however I'd really like to use Jaesa.
I just hate having to stop and heal after each fight. I know it's brief but it just sucks.
Here's another example after a fight with a strong (a couple levels lower than me) which had a couple adds with him. My health was full when I began the battle:
Seems like after every ecounter (PvE), I have to stop and heal. It's pretty annoying. Am I doing something wrong? If I use Malavai Quinn it's not an issue, however I'd really like to use Jaesa.
I just hate having to stop and heal after each fight. I know it's brief but it just sucks.
Here's another example after a fight with a strong (a couple levels lower than me) which had a couple adds with him. My health was full when I began the battle:
BattleMonkey
Member
Well two dps are always going to be taking a beating. Using a healer or tank companion works better for a DPS spec character. Even with geared tank I have to take breaks usually
Azwethinkweiz
Member
This. Why would you rather use Jaesa? If it's for the companion points, just swap out your companion during the story parts.
CAW
Member
She's sexy, and my evil apprentice and I was hoping to romance her. I'll just swap her out for the story parts, like you suggested. I also liked the idea of destroying our enemies as master and apprentice.
I dont understand you guys who are playing ops and having a hard time at pvp... Seriously you should just watch my guildie jamews pvp as a concealment ops. ALWAYS #1 in damage in every single warzone I've ever played with him. He just melts people non-stop. I don't think I've ever saw him lose a 1v1, hell he usually wins 2v1 fights. Even after the ops nerf and the surge nerf, his burst damage capabilities are just silly. Other than Priapus, our marauder, and one sorc on our server, tacop, no else is even anywhere near his tier of damage potential on the server.
Honestly I've not seen any class that is truely underpowered in this game. Yeah a few classes need a couple minor tweaks. Such as a slight tweak to BH/OP area healing, snipers being made a bit more useful in huttball, Sorc healing efficiency being brought down slightly, and maybe giving dps BH's an interrupt.
Honestly I've not seen any class that is truely underpowered in this game. Yeah a few classes need a couple minor tweaks. Such as a slight tweak to BH/OP area healing, snipers being made a bit more useful in huttball, Sorc healing efficiency being brought down slightly, and maybe giving dps BH's an interrupt.
cpp_is_king
Member
She's sexy, and my evil apprentice and I was hoping to romance her. I'll just swap her out for the story parts, like you suggested. I also liked the idea of destroying our enemies as master and apprentice.
Yea imagine being a Gunslinger, where you don't even get a healing companion until level 40ish. As you get higher and higher in level, the fights get tougher, and eventually it got to the point where I couldn't even kill a pack of trash with 1 silver in it without my healing companion.
chickdigger802
Banned
It's pretty much the same for tanks as well. Our damage output is shit. We barely mitigate extra damage, and I pretty much have to use everything to take out a normal dude.
awesome!
BattleMonkey
Member
Thats why you use a dps companion.
With the Juggernaught, force leap at a reg mob and follow with the kick move. It will 80-90% of the time instant kill a reg mob before they even get to attack. Follow up with taking on next reg mob with a ravage or so which also stuns as you damage and your dps companion will quickly wipe em out. Any silver in the group then you just tank n spank. Armor at lower levels should hover around 40% reduction with at end game you will be over 50% along with your shield benefits, which as a tank build you should have upped your defense ratings, absorption stats.
After the ease of the juggernaught tank spec I played to 50, playing my commando has felt nothing but awkward and cumbersome.
I didnt mean you bro. What i meant is rolling a sorc just to be op is lame and you can see the effects on kv. tons of sorcs that arent very good. Sure there are good players mixed in but its like death knights were in wow.
BattleMonkey
Member
As long as you have geared her up, her healing is about the same as any other healing companion. Turn off all her offensive abilities you can, but she will always fight to some degree, but healing is a priority for companions over damage.
It's really not. My 50 is a Mercenary. Decked in mostly champion gear ... Valor 47. Whether I go spam Tracer Missle spec ... or Pyrotech DoT (my preferred) spec for PvP .... it just isn't fun @ 50. All I get is Huttball ... and all the Force Leaps, Force Speeds, Force Pulls just make the shit completely unfun.
The ball carrier should not be able to Leap or be pulled IMO ... some sort of grounding effect.
Sure I can dish out damage ... but if a Sorc starts shielding and healing someone ... there is NO WAY I can out dps their healing / shields ... especially since I don't have an interrupt other than knocking people back or using my long CD stun.
Oh and Ilum? Fuck Ilum. It's not fun. Mostly due to the population imbalances. There is no challenge ... just zerging around ... so boring.
I'm having way more fun on my Marauder @ 33 currently. Interrupting, nerfing healing, Force Camo to get out of sticky spots .... etc
Respec annhilation. I guarantee you it will be 10x better, carnage is just awful as a spec; it's sad too since most people spec it since it seems to be the most likable/coolest. Hopefully 1.2 fixes it.
Take away leap from marauders/juggs in huttball and you just decimate the class in that warzone--especially tank juggs. Pull is unavoidable--charge is avoidable. I always try to go down the pit because I know one idiot will come out of the enemy spawn, sit at the edge and try to ranged dps allowing me to leap. If you LOS the ball carrier, or don't stand on edges/jump down with him; he won't be able to do anything.
As for pull, I think it should put a 30-60 second cooldown that doesn't allow you to be pulled again.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
How different is the Gunslinger to the Sniper? As I never had an issue the whole leveling up to 50 with my Marksmanship build in terms of trash mobs, even if there's 1 silver in it. This is using the initial companion as well, who's supposed to be a tank but isn't really that great at it without being fully geared (and even then, I crit often enough that I end up pulling mobs a lot of the time anyway). Granted, at the end of most fights my companion's either dead or nearly dead, but I usually end up with plenty of health when the fight's done.
Can anyone else comment if this is true, or an exaggeration?
I recently started a Marauder and like it a lot, but I'm only level 15.
Priapus plays a marauder. Why wouldn't you believe him?
Elara was an awesome healer. Geared correctly and if she's in the right stance, she's awesome. Made my Commando leveling a piece of cake. 2 strongs with multiple normals were a piece of cake with her. Golds too.You're crazy. I'm a pretty good sorc healer as most of GAF Empire (and the rest of the Imps) can attest...but to have a group full of sorcs healing hard mode and nightmare, while doable, is asinine. The kind of stacking damage reduction a mercenary healer brings to the table can't be replicated by a couple sorcs. You'd be majorly gimping yourself.
Resurgence, the main combo skill of a sorc healer, allows you to stack 10% armor on a tank. Supercharged Gas, which is roughly the equivalent mercenary skill, allows you to prevent 10% of damage. Which would you rather have on the tank? Me, I'd rather prevent straight damage.
When we do our 16m hard modes, we run 2 mercs and 2 sorcs (also because we seem to have no ops healers) and it works great. Sorcs are better raid heals, mercs are better tank heals. Sorcs pop shields on tanks to help out, mercs use their Kolto Missile and such to help raid heal in spots. It's nice synergy.
All that aside, yes the common perception is that we are by far and away the best. My experience has been that anyone who knows what they are doing in another healing class is just as capable.
100% true. Rexus is a 50 marauder, his damage went up like 70-90k in WZ's immediately after respec.
Hari Seldon
Member
This game is losing steam with me and my friends. Illum is just so god damn terrible, and the warzone dailies are a serious grind doing them solo. Need a dungeon finder pronto. I might diddle with a republic toon until my sub runs out.
i leveled a marauder from 10 -50 as annihilation only. use (and gear up) your healing companion once you have him and you should be fine. i have heard (via reddit, etc ...) that rage might be better for PVE leveling - you can check in r/swtor for that thread. once you get all of your good abilities by the early to mid 40s, the annihilation marauder is a great spec to play in both pve and pvp. just remember, as opposed to a rotation based spec, this is a priority based spec. you need to keep and stack enough rage to keep berserk up as much as possible.
You shut your dirty mouth!
Jbird34
Member
you know I misread that as Jaina Dorne the 1st time lol
razgriz417
Member
Yea I would trust Anbokor (priapus in game) on all things marauder. He's consistently at least top 3 in dps when we do raids and pvp
You're both right and wrong regarding healers.
There is exactly one fight in the game that we have found where a bounty hunter is a more useful tank healer. That's it, for every other encounter a sorc is a better choice.
When dealing with the heal armor/resist bonuses. You are right, technically a bounty hunter can give a tank a few seconds of better damage mitigation.
As a sorc you have an instant heal that applies a 9sec armor bonus, this heal is on a 6 sec cooldown. As a bounty hunter we have a cast time heal that also has the 9sec armor bonus , this heal is on a 9sec cooldown.(7.5sec with 4piece set bonus). The bounty hunter advantage comes with the use of Supercharged Gas. By burning all 30 charges, our Area heal gains an added benefit. The heal Kolto Bomb ( 6sec cooldown) will provide 10% damage resist if cast during with supercharged gas running. The problem is that we cannot have supercharged gas running all the time. It takes time to get to 30 charges, either we use rapid shots which heals for very little and gives 3 charges, or use our rapid scan which gives 6 charges. Rapid scan is the faster way, but it is also very costly (25 heat), Only by weaving in a mix of both and emergency scan (builds 0 charge) can we get our 30 charges without overheating to do it. This means we can at best keep the 10% resist buff up on a tank at best 50% of the time and usually far less than that. This is because supercharged gas is also one of our primary means of keeping our heat low ( use vents 16 heat) and we usually most save its use to keep our heat in the 0-40 range.
Sorcs are far and away the best healers overall. They have a massive power pool, have easy ways to recharge their power, and have an area heal that is leagues better than other area heals.
I would kill for the power management of a sorc, the massive pool of 650 force with talents and set bonus alone makes our piddly 100 heat seem like a joke. Not to mention a lifetap to restore force power, that talented does not drain like if you crit before hand and with end game gear you should be critting 40+% of the time. This gives sorcs the ability to burst heal, heal nonstop for long periods of time, and still keep going nearly forever. A sorc's single target heal costs 30, not counting regen you can cast it TWENTY ONE TIMES before running out of power. Contrast that to a BH which not counting regen can cast their single target heal FOUR times before being completely out of power.
Contrast that to the powermanagement of my BH. 100 heat of which I can only use the 0-40 range or I suffer huge regen penalties. My normal single target heal costs 25 heat. Casting my only heal that isn't on a cooldown timer TWICE is enough to put me into penalty regen. I constantly have to make decisions a sorc doesnt have to worry about. Do I try to save a dps by healing and push my heat up to high, or do I not heal and hope they can save themselves with a cooldown for a few seconds so I can heal them when I have heat to spend. The worst part is knowing that even a slight mistake early on will cause you to slide down a very slippery slop of penalty regen. 0-40, 5 regen, 41-60 3 regen, 60-80 2 regen, 81-100 1 regen. Once you make your first mistake you only dig yourself deeper into the hole. You have heat reducers, vent heat which can vent 50 heat(66 talented) and is on a 2min cooldown timer, and the previously mentioned supercharged gas which vents 16 heat. And like I said before Supercharged gas has other purposes which forces you to make tough decisions on its use.
On to the Area heal, a sorc heal can hit up to 8 targets, BH area 3, Op area 4. But the real kicker is the effectiveness of the heal. Tests were run on the amount healed between equivalently gear healers using their area healing. The results were that only 3 targets the Sorc heal would heal double the amount of healing per second as the bounty hunter heal. The sorc heal was also 3 times better than the Op area heal on 4 targets So eventhe same number of targets the sorc heal is much much better. Adding in the fact that the sorc heal can and often will heal 8 targets in a raid compared to the BH 3 you can see just how wide a gap there is between the heals.
I have no idea who Priapus is.
Was looking for additional details and comments from others. Thanks to all the people who replied on the Marauder subject!
damn, It took me 5 minutes of alt tabbing to write down the details of our armor buff vs the sorc...your post would have taken me an hour
Just to be clear I'm not saying other healers are not viable, just that a Sorc will beat a BH or IA in regards to pretty much anything. That last time I saw such a discrepency with a class was the Tempest of Set in Age of Conan.
There is a reason that the sorc is the most played class and it is completely Bioware's fault. The lopsidedness of the class has been there since beta
I run with a good group so it really doesn't matter to me, but it must suck for people trying to pug if they have competition that to a sorc
BattleMonkey
Member
damn, It took me 5 minutes of alt tabbing to write down the details of our armor buff vs the sorc...your post would have taken me an hour
Just to be clear I'm not saying other healers are not viable, just that a Sorc will beat a BH or IA in regards to pretty much anything. That last time I saw such a discrepency with a class was the Tempest of Set in Age of Conan.
There is a reason that the sorc is the most played class and it is completely Bioware's fault. The lopsidedness of the class has been there since beta
I run with a good group so it really doesn't matter to me, but it must suck for people trying to pug if they have competition that is a sorc
I dont think sorc was the most played class just because it was believed most powerful. It's swiss army nature of being able to do pretty much anything sealed that deal. Tanking, stealth, dps, ranged pew, healer.... seriously? And double bladed lightsabers....
A sorc cannot tank or use double-bladed lightsabers.
You're talking about the base class Inquisitor, but I think everyone is discussing advanced classes instead. Base classes don't have any relevance.
Francois424
Neo Member
Well, I had played a Jedi Knight (Sentinel), a Trooper (Commando) and a Smuggler (GunSlinger), before playing a Jedi Sage. And my first reaction playing Sage was "Holy s***, this is f***ing easy !" and the job kept impressing me more and more as I levelled.
Granted I only levelled it to 20 (waiting on friends to catch-up), but it was amazingly more powerfull than any of the other 3 I had played before.
Either that or I became a better Ranged DD than I tought.
If only JK didnt become so weak around tatooine point in the game. I kept having my friend helping me out... even with meds I coudnt do some fights at all. Looking forward seeing what my Sage will be able to do on Tatooine =)
BattleMonkey
Member
Yea I meant Inq as a whole, not Sorc heh
Giolon
Member
Whoa, whoa, slow up there brosef. Couple things - you can't just toss the 4-piece Sage/Sorc set bonus into your calculations casually. If you do, you have to count the Com/Merc ones too.
Also, your cost numbers are pretty far off. The 1.5s "Flash Heal" heal of Sorcs/Sages costs 50 Force (46 Talented) and the 2.5s "Greater Heal" costs 55 Force (51 Talented). That means that, ignoring regeneration which is kind of a silly thing to do because regeneration matters, a Sage/Sorc can only cast their quick heal THIRTEEN times and their large heal ELEVEN times.
You're also ignoring the fact that the healing mechanics themselves of the classes have different plusses and minuses. For example, Sorcs/Sages are extremely cast-time dependent. To heal, Sages/Sorcs have to stand still for a couple seconds if they want to do more than toss a HoT or a bubble. For the Sorc/Sage AoE heal, you have to stand still for 2 sec to cast it, and then people need to stand in it for 10 seconds to have it's full effect which isn't always possible.
Now, I'm not saying that Sages/Sorcs aren't in a stronger healing position at this time. The fact that they're nerfing healing Sages/Sorcs (by fixing a very powerful bug *sniff*) and buffing Merc/Com and Op/Scoundrel healing in 1.2 shows that. However, the disparity in capability between the healing classes is not as bad as some would try to lead you to believe.
BattleMonkey
Member
Line of Old Republic themed shirts out: http://www.jinx.com/shop/coll/swtor..._medium=display&utm_campaign=swtordebutlaunch
ONLY 13 TIMES lol....6, that's how many time I can cast my heal with regen taken into consideration.
And remember after you cast yours 13 times, geuss what you are getting force back at your normal rate. IF I CAST MINE 6 times like that I will be regenning at 1 heat, AKA 20% of my normal regen.
Let me put it this way, if you run out of power. You can cast your most expensive single target heal in 6 secs. 46 talented cost, 8 force per second regen at 0 force. If I am out of power it would take TWENTY-FIVE seconds before I could cast my most expensive single target heal. 25 heat, 1 heat per second at 100 heat.
Do you even know how the BH AE heal works? IT hits 3 targets in the circle you place, which is about 1/2 the size of your healing circle. And it PICKS 3 TARGETS AT RANDOM. meaning it mostly heals the people who are already full. I have literally cast my AE heal and had it heal for 0 cause it choose to heal the 3 people out of 16 who were full health at the time instead of healing the people who were dieing.
And our heals are cast time to, we have 1 instant 22sec CD, one AE 6sec CD, and two cast time, 1.5sec 9sec CD, and OUR ONLY NON CD heal is 2.5sec cast.
Sorcs have no idea how much worse healing is for the other two classes.
And remember after you cast yours 13 times, geuss what you are getting force back at your normal rate. IF I CAST MINE 6 times like that I will be regenning at 1 heat, AKA 20% of my normal regen.
Let me put it this way, if you run out of power. You can cast your most expensive single target heal in 6 secs. 46 talented cost, 8 force per second regen at 0 force. If I am out of power it would take TWENTY-FIVE seconds before I could cast my most expensive single target heal. 25 heat, 1 heat per second at 100 heat.
Do you even know how the BH AE heal works? IT hits 3 targets in the circle you place, which is about 1/2 the size of your healing circle. And it PICKS 3 TARGETS AT RANDOM. meaning it mostly heals the people who are already full. I have literally cast my AE heal and had it heal for 0 cause it choose to heal the 3 people out of 16 who were full health at the time instead of healing the people who were dieing.
And our heals are cast time to, we have 1 instant 22sec CD, one AE 6sec CD, and two cast time, 1.5sec 9sec CD, and OUR ONLY NON CD heal is 2.5sec cast.
Sorcs have no idea how much worse healing is for the other two classes.
antiquegamer
Member
Yes that is essentially the big different between Op/Merc healing versus the force user. The heat/energy management really blow. When I first switch to play Operative healing I figure there must be mechanic to regen energy but that was not the case and you simply just have to manage them. What save Operative is the Surgical Probe free heal but you have to be mindful of using it when your tactical advantage is up which essentially lead to a lot of overheal. I don't know about Merc since I only have one up to level 20, but Operative also need to channel to heal.
I have play both Sage and Operative as healers and Sage is by far easier to play and in a hectic raid I would said it is better.
I have play both Sage and Operative as healers and Sage is by far easier to play and in a hectic raid I would said it is better.
Elara Dorne is the only useful trooper companion in the game. Your statement boggles my mind completely.
Yea, I made a point not to use Dorne after using Mako exclusively on my Merc. And even with me not giving her a single piece of gear, her heals were still good enough to heal me through an elite a level or two above me on Voss the other night, heh.
I really wish all companions were equally useful, the healers really make the others pretty useless, which is lame.
I really wish all companions were equally useful, the healers really make the others pretty useless, which is lame.
