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Star Wars: The Old Republic [Releasing Date: Dec 20 NA/EU - NDA Lifted]
- Thread starter Blackface
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The only reason for selling wow collector's editions are for the pets that come with them. THe disks themselves are worthless, the nitnoid stuff that comes with it are worthless in comparison.Jarmel said:
They're tied to your whole account, so even alts can get them. They're very highly valued collector's items in the game.
There is literally zero point in selling the disks or whatever if the cd keys are used, because that is the whole point to get them in the first place.
Baller. PhD
Banned
SWTOR would have to become as massively successful as WoW for it's CE to reach those numbers. Plus, despite being limited I imagine there will be more SWTOR CE's made than were made for WoW. I also thing that while pre-orders are limited there will be a shitload of them available at retail on launch day.Jarmel said:
We'll see though I guess.
Trickster
Member
Gvaz said:
dkp is a gating technique, what? Maybe it's because I'm a wow player, but gating is something very different to me.
Can I ask what's left as a way of distributing loot if both loot council and dkp systems are no go? Other than everyone just needing indiscriminately on every thing that's an upgrade to them, and then just do a roll for who gets it?
Giolon
Member
Zaptruder said:
Not only is there main spec and off spec, but you could theoretically have 1 of those for each of the two Advanced Classes available to your character. Bioware's just opening the field up too wide here. You'd need different gear as a Jedi Guardian tank vs dps vs Jedi Sentinel dps (perhaps even between the different Sentinel DPS specs). It's going to be loot whore-ism on steroids.
Doncamatic
Member
Thoraxes said:
Yeah you still get the code if you preorder from Amazon.
Character slot wise I think I remember someone saying that there were 8. Don't take my word for it though.
Edit: That was 8 per server. No idea how many total.
Thanks for the answer! Do you know if they're included in the subscription or do I have to pay per character?Doncamatic said:
Thanks for the answer! I guess I will go check at Target. I know they've switched to a card reservation system now, and they have a little card rack with reservation cards for upcoming games. The main reason I want to go there is because I can get 15% off anything I purchase there.Xamdou said:
A little late to the discussion on this, but I think folks who honestly thought that you wouldn't be able to respec your AC weren't thinking things through enough. In fact, I think NOT letting folks respec ACs would have been the worse decision. Say you're five levels into getting your AC, and suddenly decide you don't like the AC you chose? Without the respec, people would be forced to re-roll the same character and level up again just to be able to pick a difference AC.
It is a non-issue, and if folk really believe it is an issue (as far as loot, or what have you) then simply play only with trusted folks in a guild. Don't worry what other people do or don't do.
It is a non-issue, and if folk really believe it is an issue (as far as loot, or what have you) then simply play only with trusted folks in a guild. Don't worry what other people do or don't do.
This is why allowing respecs of AC's are not a good idea.
Advanced Classes are not like spec's in World of Warcraft. So please stop thinking that. They are like classes in World of Warcraft.
By allowing you to respec, you are essential changing your class. The problem with this is that it is going to cause a massive balance problem in the game.
Lets take the Smuggler for example. He can be melee dps-ish, single wield dps, dual wield dps an off healer, or a main healer.
As it was in beta. You could only pick one advanced class. If you want to single wield dps and or heal(main or off) you had to be a scoundrel. If you wanted to dual wield dps, use gadgets bombs charger etc., you had to be a Gunslinger. Within each Advanced class, you then would spec how you want. Focus on Healing, focus on off healing, focus on single DPS. You could focus on Dual Wield pistol DPS, or being a support toon or with bombs and charges. Then, both AC's could just flat out spec Dirty fighting. Giving each class 3 "specs" at least.
This made the game feel like each Advanced Class was a class it self, because compared to all other MMO's it was. This has now been taken away. Instead of adding more variety they are giving less. Instead of each faction having 8 classes, they now really only have four.
Imagine what would happen to World of Warcraft if a A Mage could change his "class" to a Warlock and elemental shaman. Ask yourself how many Elemental Shaman we would have seen in the game when Mages were destroying everything in DPS
.
You also need to think of how recruiting for high-end or half decent guilds is going to be now. In other games, like WoW, they will take one of each class. Bringing an Elemental shaman because hell, he is a Shaman, and he does DPS. It may not be as good as a Mages, but it balances out the classes. That is no longer the case. If you want to play say, a Scoundrel DPS, but Gunslinger dual wield DPS is better, you will NEVER get into a competitive guild without being a Gunslinger. Why bring that scoundrel when you can just change your Advance class? Half the a specs in the game immediately become PVE frost mages.
It sure will be fun when that Trooper you are in a flashpoint with is going to take tanking gear, dps gear and healing gear. Since they can do all three.
Hell, why not prioritize all your guilds recruiting for troopers and or bounty hunters, since picking one up fills three rolls. It would be like picking up a Warrior, mage and priest at the same time. Grab 20 troopers, regardless of spec, and you now have a raid for operations!
Also, what happened to the decisions you make impacting you? They don't. At all. Being mean or nice does virtually nothing. You can change your advance class whenever you want. They announced you can eventually change factions. You can buy gear from a special store if you paid $150.
I was excited by some of the changes they announced. But the item shop and especially the Advanced Class respec but a big time damper on that. The responses the community have been giving in response to those changes basically make me want to kill a kitten.
If you are not in beta, you wouldn't understand why it's so awful.
Advanced Classes are not like spec's in World of Warcraft. So please stop thinking that. They are like classes in World of Warcraft.
By allowing you to respec, you are essential changing your class. The problem with this is that it is going to cause a massive balance problem in the game.
Lets take the Smuggler for example. He can be melee dps-ish, single wield dps, dual wield dps an off healer, or a main healer.
As it was in beta. You could only pick one advanced class. If you want to single wield dps and or heal(main or off) you had to be a scoundrel. If you wanted to dual wield dps, use gadgets bombs charger etc., you had to be a Gunslinger. Within each Advanced class, you then would spec how you want. Focus on Healing, focus on off healing, focus on single DPS. You could focus on Dual Wield pistol DPS, or being a support toon or with bombs and charges. Then, both AC's could just flat out spec Dirty fighting. Giving each class 3 "specs" at least.
This made the game feel like each Advanced Class was a class it self, because compared to all other MMO's it was. This has now been taken away. Instead of adding more variety they are giving less. Instead of each faction having 8 classes, they now really only have four.
Imagine what would happen to World of Warcraft if a A Mage could change his "class" to a Warlock and elemental shaman. Ask yourself how many Elemental Shaman we would have seen in the game when Mages were destroying everything in DPS
The answer is none
You also need to think of how recruiting for high-end or half decent guilds is going to be now. In other games, like WoW, they will take one of each class. Bringing an Elemental shaman because hell, he is a Shaman, and he does DPS. It may not be as good as a Mages, but it balances out the classes. That is no longer the case. If you want to play say, a Scoundrel DPS, but Gunslinger dual wield DPS is better, you will NEVER get into a competitive guild without being a Gunslinger. Why bring that scoundrel when you can just change your Advance class? Half the a specs in the game immediately become PVE frost mages.
It sure will be fun when that Trooper you are in a flashpoint with is going to take tanking gear, dps gear and healing gear. Since they can do all three.
Hell, why not prioritize all your guilds recruiting for troopers and or bounty hunters, since picking one up fills three rolls. It would be like picking up a Warrior, mage and priest at the same time. Grab 20 troopers, regardless of spec, and you now have a raid for operations!
Also, what happened to the decisions you make impacting you? They don't. At all. Being mean or nice does virtually nothing. You can change your advance class whenever you want. They announced you can eventually change factions. You can buy gear from a special store if you paid $150.
I was excited by some of the changes they announced. But the item shop and especially the Advanced Class respec but a big time damper on that. The responses the community have been giving in response to those changes basically make me want to kill a kitten.
If you are not in beta, you wouldn't understand why it's so awful.
Mr. Luchador
Member
I hope to the makers that the community for this game isn't anything like the WoW 'South Park/4Chan' Community.
Giolon
Member
Blackface makes a lot of great points. Changing your AC is far more significant than changing talent specs in WoW, b/c in actuality your AC is your class as far as other similar games would be concerned.
I missed the deal about being able to switch your factions, but I think that's a great decision if true. One of the best things in SWG was being able to switch sides to join friends, exact revenge on enemies (or other friends lol), or just see what life was like on the other side (Granted switching sides in SWG wasn't free - you'd lose your Faction rep and IIRC your ranking and perks like your pet AT-ST). WoW really instilled this terrible hardcoded "us vs them" animosity into the community that could have been abated by allowing cross-faction communication and side switching. The only reasons for those kinds of feelings in SWG was for RP. Otherwise, like what the other side has going on? Sign up with them instead...or even *gasp* be Neutral!
I missed the deal about being able to switch your factions, but I think that's a great decision if true. One of the best things in SWG was being able to switch sides to join friends, exact revenge on enemies (or other friends lol), or just see what life was like on the other side (Granted switching sides in SWG wasn't free - you'd lose your Faction rep and IIRC your ranking and perks like your pet AT-ST). WoW really instilled this terrible hardcoded "us vs them" animosity into the community that could have been abated by allowing cross-faction communication and side switching. The only reasons for those kinds of feelings in SWG was for RP. Otherwise, like what the other side has going on? Sign up with them instead...or even *gasp* be Neutral!
Mr. Luchador
Member
Blackface said:
Your last two posts have made me feel to how I imagine Han Solo felt in Return of the Jedi, when he's clinging for life above the Sarlacc Pit.
I'm blind - I don't know what's really happening.
Clinging for life - Hoping the game won't turn out to be all my fears and more.
Hoping to be saved - COME ON CHEWIE AND LANDO! SAVE THIS GAME!
NemesisPrime
Banned
Giolon said:
Surely you are joking. One of the worst things about current WoW is that there is *no* hatred between factions. Everybody walks around in the same city, doing /hug, /kiss, /wave at each other. For a game that is called World of WARcraft it has become a bit of a joke. One of the reasons I love WAR... and hopefully this (PvP) hatred will exist in SWTOR, it just adds so much tension and enhances the feel of the game IMHO. Especially in a SW world where the struggle between dark and light has always been the crux of the matter.
That being said... I would like to see an MMO with a neutral faction stuck in between the others so that those players can be mercenaries to whoever buys their loyalty.
Blackface said:
You're right, I'm not in the beta so I'm probably not the best suited to comment on it. I'm just, in what little information I've seen on things, not convinced it's entirely a bad idea. Having people go for Tanking/DPS/Healing gear on one character isn't anything new. I can't tell you how many times I've been in a random on WoW where someone would roll on stuff he/she could not use and simply say "It's for an off-spec / another toon / ect."
Going by what you said, I can somewhat get why folks think it's a horrible decision but to me it is personally a non-issue. I don't plan to be running together with random folks a lot, if at all as quite a few people I already game with are preparing to make the switch over to Old Republic. I still think Bioware added it to appease the vocal group who would have bitched they couldn't change their AC. However, I (and probably many others) don't get the ramification of the decisions mainly because they have been so tight lipped about how things work.
Now, I completely agree about the whole special store for CE is one of the worst decisions I can see. What kind of things are you going to be able to purchase from the store? Is it going to contain gear from beginning to max level? What happened to the whole thing that player crafters were going to be able to make some of the best gear in the game? Is it stuff that other players can never get? ect.
Alex
Member
I don't really understand the problem, Blackface I've not near enough time in beta to even begin to comment but I'm trying to get a grip on this.
Firstly, I don't understand how this situation is really any worse than it is in WoW, where you have on the fly spec changing and classes that are up to tri or quad role, it still doesn't make you see entire raids of Druids or Paladins. It sounds a little more of a pain if the armor class is attached entirely to an archetype as opposed to some healers being light and some being heavy, etc, but I would think they'd have basic pick up tools in place to manage gear distribution reasonably at the base level and letting the community govern itself for high end.
As for DPS concerns, well, with a game like this that's why you have to go apeshit on the PvE balance and design in niches. WoW had terrible balance for years, 2/3rds of the specs were unviable in classic, entire classes were sat out in certain points in BC, but in modern WoW most specs are usually within ~5% of each other single target and also have a niche to seperate them in a given encounter.
That's just going to take time and developer care. Might be why a more generalized pool is what they're (seemingly) aiming for. Also depends on largely on the content, though.
Firstly, I don't understand how this situation is really any worse than it is in WoW, where you have on the fly spec changing and classes that are up to tri or quad role, it still doesn't make you see entire raids of Druids or Paladins. It sounds a little more of a pain if the armor class is attached entirely to an archetype as opposed to some healers being light and some being heavy, etc, but I would think they'd have basic pick up tools in place to manage gear distribution reasonably at the base level and letting the community govern itself for high end.
As for DPS concerns, well, with a game like this that's why you have to go apeshit on the PvE balance and design in niches. WoW had terrible balance for years, 2/3rds of the specs were unviable in classic, entire classes were sat out in certain points in BC, but in modern WoW most specs are usually within ~5% of each other single target and also have a niche to seperate them in a given encounter.
That's just going to take time and developer care. Might be why a more generalized pool is what they're (seemingly) aiming for. Also depends on largely on the content, though.
MaddenNFL64
Member
I think we just need to wait on what the penalties will be. They said the first one will pretty much be free, so you can fix a mistake. But after that, it's harsh.
I want it to be fucking really harsh. I don't want some asshole switching from a Sith Juggernaut, to a Sith Marauder every damn day on a whim.
I want it to be fucking really harsh. I don't want some asshole switching from a Sith Juggernaut, to a Sith Marauder every damn day on a whim.
MaddenNFL64
Member
Jakeh111 said:
These are supposed to be classes with their own armor sets, weapon restrictions, and playstyles, not extra trees. Right now, it seems you can be a level 50 cloaking back stabby imperial agent, and switch to a long range sniper class by just respeccing, and not doing shit but use up your credits.
I hope they add a timer to these penalties. Would ease me up on this issue.
edit: better yet, a point of no return. Ohlen brought up the "well if you're level 12 jugg & decide you hate it, you can switch". Well I want that locked by level 30, IF that is the only reason this is in there (and so far, that is the only reason the devs gave).
Open Source
Banned
Jakeh111 said:
Because static elements such as name, race, class, etc. help establish the core of your avatar's identity.
Musha_Soturi
Member
In UK, just pre-ordered CE from Game, no code yet..... 
Dinosaur Tamer
Member
Forever said:
I believe he was joking. Or maybe he misunderstood. I am sure there are no unannounced classes. At this point they would have been tested at some point and we would know about them for sure.
It is way too late in development for this kind of news.
Musha_Soturi said:In UK, just pre-ordered CE from Game, no code yet.....
Apparently Game is sending out their codes within the week.
I've still to receive my code from origins as well.
On the topic of AC's, one of the things about TOR that got me pretty damn excited was the no respeccing from AC's.
One of the things that dragged me away from WoW was the lack of connection to my character. Being able to respec and multispec really attributed to that.
Hopefully it won't feel the same way in TOR.
Mr. Luchador
Member
I'll never recover from the day I went onto an RP Server on WOW. Are they suppose to be like horrible porn?
flyinpiranha
Member
Blackface said:
So basically it's like having one person in your guild with a couple alts but without the shitty grinding through the same stuff they just did on their other character?
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