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[gillty]

Honestly, yes and no. I'll take a new Knights anyway I can get it, but the idea of a "never-ending" Bioware RPG also gets me excited.

I'm an MMO addict. I played WoW for over 6 years, and I've dabbled in WAR, Aion, Rift, AoC and more. I love MMOs, I love single player RPGs, I love Star Wars and I love Bioware. The combination of all of those sounds good to me.

I can suspend disbelief and pretend that I'm the only "hero" in the universe, but in a raid setting it makes sense that a bunch of heroes would band together to defeat a big baddie. I mean shit, I know my group wasn't the only one to kill Nef or Yogg or whatever in WoW, but that didn't hamper my enjoyment. And guess what? The next week Yogg was alive again. There are gaming tropes you just have to ignore in an MMO setting and the biggest one is that you ARE the hero, but so are a bunch of other people.

I've played pretty much mmo on the market as well. However, I strongly disagree that we should accept gaming tropes just because its a mmo.

For a game that follows two heavily acclaimed rpgs and heavily emphases story I think they should aspire to push past mmo genre tropes and actually advance the genre past where it already is in story telling (dialog wheel not included). A game with this budget and this amount of time in development should be able to provide enough uniqueness to each persons character, companions, and story.

IMO, being a normal jedi and doing badass raids/heroic quests is enough for me, I don't need to be a clone of the chosen one. I guess I'm not the target audience for the game, I just think developers should aspire to do better.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

I've played pretty much mmo on the market as well. However, I strongly disagree that we should accept gaming tropes just because its a mmo.

For a game that follows two heavily acclaimed rpgs and heavily emphases story I think they should aspire to push past mmo genre tropes and actually advance the genre past where it already is in story telling (dialog wheel not included). A game with this budget and this amount of time in development should be able to provide enough uniqueness to each persons character, companions, and story.

IMO, being a normal jedi and doing badass raids/heroic quests is enough for me, I don't need to be a clone of the chosen one. I guess I'm not the target audience for the game, I just think developers should aspire to do better.

Heh, the target audience is me. Star Wars & RPG goof. Gimme the epics!

 

[Retrofluxed]

IMO, being a normal jedi and doing badass raids/heroic quests is enough for me, I don't need to be a clone of the chosen one. I guess I'm not the target audience for the game, I just think developers should aspire to do better.

/waves hand "This is not the MMO you are looking for."

But seriously, good argument. I respect your opinion but, we'll just agree to disagree. I'm not that hung up on being a unique snowflake. I can RP that in my head. My only disappointment with the game so far is that I'm not playing it yet.

 

[Dinosaur Tamer]

Yes, because they aren't heaping glowing praise on the game it's an awful article.

Oh come on now.

Yes, PVP is really awesome.

And it's blatantly obvious these guys never really played a MMORPG. They don't get the mechanics in place and they have no idea about PvP in general. Yet they actually go ahead and write an article whining about getting devastated like the complete newbies they are.

That's an awful article and it's written by awful players writing about a genre they actually don't know. If I write an article you can be sure I am doing at least some research and check my facts.

And the non-PvP part you quoted is just a description of how MMORPGs work. If that's their only problem with the game, great. Because it's no problem at all, they just don't get and/or don't like the genre.

To be perfectly honest, working mechanics like that is what a lot of the more serious MMORPG players actually want to be copy & pasted from World of Warcraft.

PvP sounds terrible. I hope they fix it before release.

Meh. The prospect of you feeling that way because of that awful article makes me feel sick. If you care about their view of the game even though they actually admit to have no clue about the genre, you are part of the problem. People should be on the fence about articles like that instead of actually buying this shit.

 

[Baller. PhD]

IMO, being a normal jedi and doing badass raids/heroic quests is enough for me, I don't need to be a clone of the chosen one. I guess I'm not the target audience for the game, I just think developers should aspire to do better.

This was the fundamental thought process behind launch-era SWG. It didn't work. Players didn't know what to do, they felt like they didn't have a place. I remember maxing out 2 professions and thinking, "Ok... now what?" In the end SOE radically changed the game to try and stay relevant, only to fuck it up even worse.

People play MMO's to escape the monotony of real life. Being "another cog in the machine" is pretty much the exact opposite of that.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I've played pretty much mmo on the market as well. However, I strongly disagree that we should accept gaming tropes just because its a mmo.

For a game that follows two heavily acclaimed rpgs and heavily emphases story I think they should aspire to push past mmo genre tropes and actually advance the genre past where it already is in story telling (dialog wheel not included). A game with this budget and this amount of time in development should be able to provide enough uniqueness to each persons character, companions, and story.

IMO, being a normal jedi and doing badass raids/heroic quests is enough for me, I don't need to be a clone of the chosen one. I guess I'm not the target audience for the game, I just think developers should aspire to do better.

Think its really impossible to do for a MMO, the only way would be to completely make the game highly randomized, tons of dynamic randomized content production, though that would make it impossible to do voice acting and cutscenes for. Really no MP RPG has really done a good job at creating story telling in a MP environment, including non MMO type of games due to the nature of not being able to create fully customizable content for everyone. In more SP based games with MP components you can do it but generally it requires randomness, or user created content... but at the same time there really is no actual story in such games outside of whatever is in the players mind of in the character bio box on the character info.....

 

[gillty]

This was the fundamental thought process behind launch-era SWG. It didn't work. Players didn't know what to do, they felt like they didn't have a place. I remember maxing out 2 professions and thinking, "Ok... now what?" In the end SOE radically changed the game to try and stay relevant, only to fuck it up even worse.

People play MMO's to escape the monotony of real life. Being "another cog in the machine" is pretty much the exact opposite of that.

SWG was a sandbox, I think the cog in the machine could work in a guided experience like this game. Last I checked I can't run around in the real world blasting people in the face or overpowering the thoughts of other people with the force. Being a baddass unique sith or republic commando does not sound monotonous to me.

Anyways enough of this. :lol Agree to disagree, etc...

An idea for how the game could add some more uniqueness to each character:

Randomly generated skintone/faces/body types for companions. It certainly would do a lot from my point of view to change things up with minimal changes. Gear just isn't enough to break up the monotony of the million cloned companions.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Randomly generated skintone/faces/body types for companions. It certainly would do a lot from my point of view to change things up with minimal changes. Gear just isn't enough to break up the monotony of the million cloned companions.

I would rather to not just see these companions unless I was actually grouped with someone. Make them completely invisible or something when I'm wandering around, why do I need to see a companion of people in my faction? I can see mine and those in a group with me, but otherwise let me turn em off

 

[eastmen]

Oh come on now.



And it's blatantly obvious these guys never really played a MMORPG. They don't get the mechanics in place and they have no idea about PvP in general. Yet they actually go ahead and write an article whining about getting devastated like the complete newbies they are.

That's an awful article and it's written by awful players writing about a genre they actually don't know. If I write an article you can be sure I am doing at least some research and check my facts.

And the non-PvP part you quoted is just a description of how MMORPGs work. If that's their only problem with the game, great. Because it's no problem at all, they just don't get and/or don't like the genre.

To be perfectly honest, working mechanics like that is what a lot of the more serious MMORPG players actually want to be copy & pasted from World of Warcraft.



Meh. The prospect of you feeling that way because of that awful article makes me feel sick. If you care about their view of the game even though they actually admit to have no clue about the genre, you are part of the problem. People should be on the fence about articles like that instead of actually buying this shit.

the majority of recent mmorpgs wow included do not feature real pvp. The games aren't properly set up for it . The last game to have real pvp as far as i'm concerned is ultima online

 

[Retrofluxed]

Well, regarding companions, I would think the ability to customize them that Bioware talked about at Comic-Con should help at least reduce the problem of clone companions.

 

[Jira]

Also, the companions are going to cause unnecessary performance problems. Why render everyone's identical companion in a city and bog down the game for everyone? They need to give you an option to turn off other people's companions if you wish, though they should always be on while grouping.

EDIT: Oh they talked about customization for them? Well that's good.

 

[Rflagg]

It only says a name from your perspective, to everyone else, it's "(name here's) companion".

Oh, and new wallpapers from the friday update. From "Return", added em to my TOR folder.

That is sexy as all hell, but I have a odd superstition about using game wallpapers before they are released. I know it makes no logical sense, but I still have it. :lol

 

[gillty]

I would rather to not just see these companions unless I was actually grouped with someone. Make them completely invisible or something when I'm wandering around, why do I need to see a companion of people in my faction? I can see mine and those in a group with me, but otherwise let me turn em off

That would work too.

edit:

On top of that, they continued to elaborate on the other reveals we’ve heard about this Comic-Con such as the Companion customization. We now know we’ll be able to change their armor types, weapons, modify their skin & facial features, and even give them commands.

I still would rather be able to turn them off when not in the party with them.

 

[kodt]

the majority of recent mmorpgs wow included do not feature real pvp. The games aren't properly set up for it . The last game to have real pvp as far as i'm concerned is ultima online

EVE Online has real PVP.

DAoC had pretty good cross-realm PVP.

But I agree with you, most MMO's do not have real PVP. They want the game to be noob friendly so pvp is kept to a couple zones and instances.

IMO real PVP needs to have real risks and rewards. It should take place in the game world and not be instanced. It should not be scheduled (none of this the battle starts in 5 minutes crap) but completely player driven and dynamic.

You should be able to hold entire zones or planets (depending on the game). You should be able to take over an enemy city. This is what I like about EVE, the vast majority of the game is player controlled. It doesn't need new quest lines and raids to be compelling. The game is compelling b/c there is always motivation for PVP.

 

[kyo_daikun]

Also, the companions are going to cause unnecessary performance problems. Why render everyone's identical companion in a city and bog down the game for everyone? They need to give you an option to turn off other people's companions if you wish, though they should always be on while grouping.

EDIT: Oh they talked about customization for them? Well that's good.

Yeah they showed a comparison picture of four different versions of the twilek companion, im assuming you will be able to change there colour and hair style etc.

 

[antonz]

Yeah they showed a comparison picture of four different versions of the twilek companion, im assuming you will be able to change there colour and hair style etc.

Yeah modifying companions appearance was revealed at Comic Con.

 

[Baller. PhD]

I... wouldn't get too excited about companion customization. It's not what you're thinking, and it still sucks.

 

[Soroc]

Weird that's way more than whats in my folder currently (27.2 GB).

40 Is a slight exaggeration but my drive did go down 34GB from the d/l and install. Main Assets 1 and English voices/sounds I think were the largest files. Either way its a hefty download

I haven't officially logged onto the servers yet either so not sure if maybe I have some temp files still stored??

Hope mine isn't corrupted :-/

 

[kyo_daikun]

I... wouldn't get too excited about companion customization. It's not what you're thinking, and it still sucks.

Don't ruin it! I already have plans to change my human companion into a bothan!

 

[Morn]

Don't ruin it! I already have plans to change my human companion into a bothan!

Boy are you going to be disappointed.

 

[Emitan]

Boy are you going to be disappointed.

Yeah, you can't turn them into Bothans, just Mon Cals.

 

[kyo_daikun]

Boy are you going to be disappointed.

So what your saying is I have to go for something more conservative like a Mon calamari or Rodian?

 

[antonz]

So what your saying is I have to go for something more conservative like a Mon calamari or Rodian?

Its stuff like skin colors, tatoos etc

 

[kyo_daikun]

Its stuff like skin colors, tatoos etc

Yea I know, just having a joke about it, really think that if they are going to make these companion characters a large part of the gameplay experience they should be a lot more customisable.

 

[antonz]

Yea I know, just having a joke about it, really think that if they are going to make these companion characters a large part of the gameplay experience they should be a lot more customisable.

True I think species changes and such would be nice. As it is there are apparently a ton of species we cant be yet are in game so it would be something though they probably worry it would break their storylines

 

[Dinosaur Tamer]

And what if their species is relevant to their story? To pick an example, it's not a long shot to say Vette being a Twi'lek may be somewhat relevant.

*Edit*: Nevermind, you already covered that.

 

[AZRandom_guy]

But I agree with you, most MMO's do not have real PVP. They want the game to be noob friendly so pvp is kept to a couple zones and instances.

This is what I like about EVE, the vast majority of the game is player controlled. It doesn't need new quest lines and raids to be compelling. The game is compelling b/c there is always motivation for PVP.

Can we please not get into a cock-waving PvP discussion again? The emphasis in this game is that it's story-driven, not PvP driven. Sure, they will put PvP in to satisfy that demographic but it's only for a small demographic.

And Kodt, you do realize that new quest lines and raids are focal points of any MMO that wants to stay alive, right? EVE may be more PvP-focused but this game won't be. Also, each person has their own opinion of compelling and I'm sure that most of the people in this thread and the people planning on buying this game would not find open PvP compelling.

I'm just happy PvP is in the game at all. It gives us PvE folk something else to do other than quest, craft, or raid.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

I think it's enough to have a yellow vette with green eyes, and different twilek headpiece, and someone else has a red one with blue eyes or whatever.

Anyway, Catherine Taber wouldn't sound right as a rodian .

 

[Last Hearth]

I've played pretty much mmo on the market as well. However, I strongly disagree that we should accept gaming tropes just because its a mmo.

For a game that follows two heavily acclaimed rpgs and heavily emphases story I think they should aspire to push past mmo genre tropes and actually advance the genre past where it already is in story telling (dialog wheel not included). A game with this budget and this amount of time in development should be able to provide enough uniqueness to each persons character, companions, and story.

IMO, being a normal jedi and doing badass raids/heroic quests is enough for me, I don't need to be a clone of the chosen one. I guess I'm not the target audience for the game, I just think developers should aspire to do better.

That's ridiculous, "uniqueness to each person's character and story"? Are you serious. We are talking about millions of players. They are all going to have unique stories?

They could have made a game where everyone is a peon, but I think they correctly assessed that the majority of people who wants to play this game wants to be the hero. This game is all about fantasy fulfillment and few people fantasize about being another cog in the Republic wheel.

 

[gillty]

That's ridiculous, "uniqueness to each person's character and story"? Are you serious. We are talking about millions of players. They are all going to have unique stories?

They could have made a game where everyone is a peon, but I think they correctly assessed that the majority of people who wants to play this game wants to be the hero. This game is all about fantasy fulfillment and few people fantasize about being another cog in the Republic wheel.

1)Obviously not. I really don't see how it would be ridiculous to have unique touches in the story to make the game more personal like so:

a) If playing a Jedi character during the starting zone have a somewhat unique Jedi Master (different name, race, faces, etc...)
--This could be random or determined similarly to how Mass Effect 1 allowed you to choose from various back stories.
---Considering that half the time the voice acting in various quests doesn't even mention names I don't see how this wouldn't be possible.

b) Companions that the very least look unique, considering right now companions follow around players like pets, they could at least differentiate them from player to player other than armor.
---Announced this at comic-con.

2)You realize that 99% of the Jedi in the Star Wars/Old Republic universe are just "cogs" right? Doesn't mean they don't do badass heroic shit. The story and actual game/mmo are extremely disconnected, I think it would be awesome if they weren't, nothing really left to say.

 

[gatti-man]

EVE Online has real PVP.

DAoC had pretty good cross-realm PVP.

But I agree with you, most MMO's do not have real PVP. They want the game to be noob friendly so pvp is kept to a couple zones and instances.

IMO real PVP needs to have real risks and rewards. It should take place in the game world and not be instanced. It should not be scheduled (none of this the battle starts in 5 minutes crap) but completely player driven and dynamic.

You should be able to hold entire zones or planets (depending on the game). You should be able to take over an enemy city. This is what I like about EVE, the vast majority of the game is player controlled. It doesn't need new quest lines and raids to be compelling. The game is compelling b/c there is always motivation for PVP.

Yes this a million times minus the eve lose everything if you die huge penalty.

 

[CzarTim]

ITT: People still bitter that NGE fucked up a buggy game even more.

WoW won, SWG lost. Get over it. Expecting this game to be anything more than more of the same is unrealistic.

 

[Emitan]

ITT: People still bitter that NGE fucked up a buggy game even more.

WoW won, SWG lost. Get over it. Expecting this game to be anything more than more of the same is unrealistic.

Did you take a shot?

 

[CzarTim]

My blood is mostly alcohol.

 

[Sigfodr]

ITT: People still bitter that NGE fucked up a buggy game even more.

WoW won, SWG lost. Get over it. Expecting this game to be anything more than more of the same is unrealistic.

But voice acting!!!

 

[Cyrillus]

while EA has historically been anything but nurturing, I think they realize they have something on their hands here and will keep pumping into the live team for once.

I thought they had realized this with Warhammer, but I, and many others, were sadly mistaken.

 

[Emitan]

I thought they had realized this with Warhammer, but I, and many others, were sadly mistaken.

How much money did they invest into Warhammer? SWTOR is at $2.7 billion and counting.

 

[eosos]

How much money did they invest into Warhammer? SWTOR is at $2.7 billion and counting.

BILLION!!!!

 

[Emitan]

BILLION!!!!

Voice acting!

 

[Trouble]

How much money did they invest into Warhammer? SWTOR is at $2.7 billion and counting.

I heard it was $14.6 Trillion and rising.

 

[Cyrillus]

How much money did they invest into Warhammer? SWTOR is at $2.7 billion and counting.

I don't know how much they spent on Warhammer, but apparently it was too much hyping it up in the months before release, and not enough actually developing the game, or supporting it after release.

I am still hyped to the max for SW:TOR, though. Every time I open this thread and read that someone else got a beta invite, I die a little inside. :-/

 

[BattleMonkey]

I don't know how much they spent on Warhammer, but apparently it was too much hyping it up in the months before release, and not enough actually developing the game, or supporting it after release.

I am still hyped to the max for SW:TOR, though. Every time I open this thread and read that someone else got a beta invite, I die a little inside. :-/

Well it was pushed out unfinished, so much also planned for it got cut and they forced it out right before a wow expansion came out in its sloppy state.

 

[Cyrillus]

Well it was pushed out unfinished, so much also planned for it got cut and they forced it out right before a wow expansion came out in its sloppy state.

I re-subbed for a month 1 year after it released, and the sloppiness was still there. It's a shame, it could've been a great game. Hopefully with a $2.7 billiion budget, the same fate doesn't befall TOR.

 

[Sigfodr]

Loved loved loved WAR, but I'm a casual MMO player, so I know my opinion on MMOs is for crap.

 

[Rflagg]

Well it was pushed out unfinished, so much also planned for it got cut and they forced it out right before a wow expansion came out in its sloppy state.

That has been the story for almost all the mmos post wow sadly.

 

[Trouble]

That has been the story for almost all the mmos post wow sadly.

It's the "ship when you run out of money" syndrome. Thankfully Bioware/EA have lots of money.

 

[Hawk269]

I am not in the beta, I don't know anyone in the beta and not sure if it is cool to mention this...but searching some Torrent sites, there are some really good gameplay video's that can be downloaded and viewed.

I found 2 that were about 10min long each, outstanding quality and WOW am I impressed on what I have seen.

 

[SUPARSTARX]

The voice acting will be very forgettable especially if you have your first character hit max level and decide to level a second. I know I'll be skipping them like mad on alts and such if I get the game. There's more of a focus of reading the text than letting the voice play through than anything. It feels like a total drag to be honest. It's kind of bleak.

 

[ampere]

Playing KoTOR 1 to get hype

I'm hype!

 

[Retrofluxed]

Warhammer's jank stemmed from the engine being pure shit. Mythic Seconds is just one example of poor coding.