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[Rizzi]

Rogue-lite

Sure that can work.

 

[croten]

YEEEAAAAH ROGUE LEGACY WOOO!
If you haven't noticed, I love that game. Definitely recommended to all, though it takes a while before it clicks. Spelunky is great as well and co-op is fun in its own way, though it doesn't work too well.

Rogue Legacy is a rogue-lite, platformer/RPG-lite kind of game.

Really? I never really fell in love with it, it always just felt like a grindfest

 

[RecursiveFault]

So is anyone able to take a guess what the Pat/Liam LP is going to be from the small talk about it at the end of the cast?

I think it may be the Silent Hill 2 playthrough that was teased in the credits of that one video, but I would otherwise assume it's another JRPG, or at least RPG.

Really? I never really fell in love with it, it always just felt like a grindfest

Yeah, I didn't care for the core platforming mechanics, and the rogue elements didn't do much. It's fine though.

 

[skLaFarebear]

YEEEAAAAH ROGUE LEGACY WOOO!
If you haven't noticed, I love that game. Definitely recommended to all, though it takes a while before it clicks. Spelunky is great as well and co-op is fun in its own way, though it doesn't work too well.

Rogue Legacy is a rogue-lite, platformer/RPG-lite kind of game.

I've been interested in both since I haven't played either and want a new podcast game for my vita, so I'm thinking about getting Rogue Legacy more, though I might just grab both.

I'd say Rogue Legacy is less of a roguelike but more like an upgrade hell game.

I just assumed it was since its called rogue legacy.

 

[demidar]

Really? I never really fell in love with it, it always just felt like a grindfest

I'm with you, I enjoyed the game but I was hardly enamored with it.

Spelunky is much better, though it's not quite a roguelike. Even rogue-lite is stretching it.

 

[ShakuganSan]

So is anyone able to take a guess what the Pat/Liam LP is going to be from the small talk about it at the end of the cast?

My guess would be something that isn't serious, maybe something with the same tone as Barkley. (I haven't listened to the podcast yet)

 

[Ultimate_Trainer]

Really? I never really fell in love with it, it always just felt like a grindfest

For a metrovania/roguelite, there are serious design flaws that make it feel like that.

 

[skLaFarebear]

So is anyone able to take a guess what the Pat/Liam LP is going to be from the small talk about it at the end of the cast?

SMT4

Then Woolie will be so jealous.

 

[croten]

I'm with you, I enjoyed the game but I was hardly enamored with it.

Spelunky is much better, though it's not quite a roguelike. Even rogue-lite is stretching it.

Spelunky is a fantastic game, the only "Roguelike" things it has is the perma death and crushing difficulty.

 

[croten]

It's definitely not a grind fest. Once you master the game's movement and learn enemy behavior, you can pretty much beat the game with little to no grinding. It is not an easy game, which is why most will die often and it might feel like you're just grinding. I felt the exact same way you did, but once I got through that and once I got gud, it became really fun. You do have the option to grind, which decreases the amount of gud you need to git. The controls are sublime and I really like the character-ability mechanic as it forces you to play a diverse set of characters and master multiple abilities.

It is however really flawed, which is also the reason why it can feel grindy or like upgrade hell. Unfortunate, but I like it regardless of its flaws.

I had no desire to that much time into it, I beat it and never touched it again.

Fuck, DP.

 

[Archgan]

Binding of Isaac? Naw, I like the game fine and all, but I prefer turn based rpg roguelikes.

Dungeon of the Endless is semi-roguelike and semi-turned based. It is really fun, though.

 

[croten]

Of course, I can understand that. I can also understand people not liking Demon or Dark Souls after having forced their way through the game. I just mean that Rogue Legacy is the kind of game that feels really grindy at first, but really opens up and becomes a blast once you master it. I can understand people not wanting to do that and just finish the game through grinding, but the game does not contain trial and error and can be played in a more elegant and skillful way.

I never really liked the core gameplay, it felt like a bad castlevania

 

[MillionStabs]

Spelunky is a fantastic game, the only "Roguelike" things it has is the perma death and crushing difficulty.

The difficulty is what keeps me from really getting into it.
I pick up my Vita to play it, and I get knocked onto spikes from something stupid and boom, insta-death.

 

[RecursiveFault]

I'd say its far better than most castlevania games, to be honest. And again, it's controls are fantastic.

Really? I couldn't stand it. I dropped the game because of it. Give me Castlevania 1 anyday.

 

[skLaFarebear]

From what I've seen of Rogue Legacy it seems nothing like a Castlevania game. Other than the 2D.

 

[demidar]

Of course, I can understand that. I can also understand people not liking Demon or Dark Souls after having forced their way through the game and bashing their face against enemies until it finally worked and leveling up through grinding. I just mean that Rogue Legacy is the kind of game that feels really grindy and unforgiving at first, but really opens up and becomes a blast once you master it. I can understand people not wanting to do that and just finish the game through grinding, but the game does not contain trial and error and can be played in a more elegant and skillful way.

Spelunky is faaaaaar more random and unforgiving than Rogue Legacy.

Spelunky is very random, but also mostly fair. Take my word for it, I managed to get over a million dollars in a run. Also I wrote a gigantic page full of tips, that's how much I loved the game (and this was before I seriously went for $1,000,000+ daily challenge runs so I know a lot more than that). /shamelessplug

 

[RecursiveFault]

What? You don't like having more control over the movement of your character?

It's super rigid, but that was my extreme example of preference to Rogue Lagacy's unsatisfying hitboxes and floaty feeling.

This is really subjective though. Arguing about game feel is too individual without dissecting each piece.

 

[Ultimate_Trainer]

From what I've seen of Rogue Legacy it seems nothing like a Castlevania game.

It plays a little like one with it's spells and the map and it also shares some other older game mechanics.

 

[Phantasmal Repose]

From what I've seen of Rogue Legacy it seems nothing like a Castlevania game. Other than the 2D.

It's somewhat similar to Metrioidvanias, but not a lot. Personally, I thought Rogue legacy was a kind of weak roguelite.

 

[RecursiveFault]

From what I've seen of Rogue Legacy it seems nothing like a Castlevania game. Other than the 2D.

Short range melee attack with some startup, strong sub weapons.

Are we talking about classic, linear level progression Castlevanias or the Metroidvanias?

I'm talking about the linear games.

 

[demidar]

It plays a little like one with it's spells and the map and it also shares some older game mechanics.

Are we talking about classic, linear level progression Castlevanias or the Metroidvanias?

Short range melee attack with some startup, strong sub weapons.

Rogue Legacy lets you move and attack at the same time, which you can't do in Castlevania (short of a few weapons like the Crissaegrim). This small thing actually changes a lot of the combat flow and feeling.

Coincidentally, they started playing Castlevania 1 on AGDQ.

 

[croten]

Are we talking about classic, linear level progression Castlevanias or the Metroidvanias?

It's got a mixture of the both but mostly classic

 

[Ultimate_Trainer]

Are we talking about classic, linear level progression Castlevanias or the Metroidvanias?

I'm thinking of SotN. Since it seems a bit more based on that one.

 

[RecursiveFault]

It isn't rigid, though it's certainly floaty. Haven't had hitbox issues myself. The game is built around the amount of freedom and control it gives. But yeah, it eventually comes down to preference. I too like c1 movement, but that's because it fits within the context of the game.

No, sorry, I meant Castlevania 1 is rigid. Obviously the game is built around it and that's why it works. I was just giving a random example of solid, old, platformer controls, mainly since I'm watching it on AGDQ right now.
Anyway yeah, I guess it's just preference. For what it's worth IMO, Shovel Knight had the best game feel of any platformer I've played, and I think I personally just prefer linear levels.

Rogue Legacy lets you move and attack at the same time, which you can't do in Castlevania (short of a few weapons like the Crissaegrim). This small thing actually changes a lot of the combat flow and feeling.

Ah, yeah that is different. I guess I can see where that puts different kinds of depth into it.

 

[skLaFarebear]

Short range melee attack with some startup, strong sub weapons.

It's somewhat similar to Metrioidvanias, but not a lot. Personally, I thought Rogue legacy was a kind of weak roguelite.

It plays a little like one with it's spells and the map and it also shares some other older game mechanics.

Oh well, I had no idea. I just assumed that there was no linear progression or whip or anything like a Castlevania game. I understand it being a metroidvania like SotN though.

 

[demidar]

No, sorry, I meant Castlevania 1 is rigid. Obviously the game is built around it and that's why it works. I was just giving a random example of solid, old, platformer controls, mainly since I'm watching it on AGDQ right now.
Anyway yeah, I guess it's just preference. For what it's worth IMO, Shovel Knight had the best game feel of any platformer I've played, and I think I personally just prefer linear levels.

Ah, yeah that is different. I guess I can see where that puts different kinds of depth into it.

Shovel Knight's game feel is closer to classic Castlevania than Rogue Legacy.

Spoiler

I like how everyone just knows what game feel is.

 

[Phantasmal Repose]

If rogue legacy is kind of weak, please point me towards really good ones. I'd definitely want to play them.

BoI and Spelunky. You've probably already played them. You should try some roguelikes. Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is really good. There's also another one, but I can't remember the name.

 

[Squishy3]

Psh, it's all about Nethack

 

[Emouse]

I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't like the binding of Isaac, I have no fun playing that game at all but to be fair I'm not a huge fan of roguelikes anyway or at least any I've played

I also hate that when anyone says rebirth they're not talking about Muramasa

 

[croten]

Oh well, I had no idea. I just assumed that there was no linear progression or whip or anything like a Castlevania game. I understand it being a metroidvania like SotN though.

It doesn't have a whip and the castle is randomly generated each time you die. You have to fight 4 different bosses to open a door to fight the final boss. It's metroidvania in the sense that you can chose which bosses to go for in whatever order but there aren't any special abilities you get to unlock new areas or whatever.

 

[RecursiveFault]

Yeah, but Shovel Knight is amazing. I'm not comparing it to that. I just like how Rogue Legacy was put up. It was flawed for sure, but it made up for it in other areas.

Yeah I actually don't mind the grindy setup for its flaws and I like it's strengths, but the core gameplay was enough to turn me off. I might be a picky asshole.

Yeah, it's pretty crucial actually. If you ever check out speed runs, you'll see people using this fairly frequently.

Shovel Knight's game feel is closer to classic Castlevania than Rogue Legacy.

Spoiler

I like how everyone just knows what game feel is.

Term is overused, but I honestly don't remember specifics so I'm generalizing. Probably shouldn't complain about games I don't remember enough about.

 

[croten]

What was BoI again? Also yeah, I really like Spelunky as well, so I won't argue that. I'll look into Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, though is that a platformer or just rogue rpg?

Binding of Isaac.

 

[RecursiveFault]

I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't like the binding of Isaac, I have no fun playing that game at all but to be fair I'm not a huge fan of roguelikes anyway or at least any I've played
I also hate that when anyone says rebirth they're not talking about Muramasa

I really really disliked it at first, but once I finally adjusted to the regular tear projectile it's alright. My first time it felt fun was when I got the laser tears and didn't have the annoying terrible default projectile.

Muramasa is rad.

 

[croten]

I really really disliked it at first, but once I finally adjusted to the regular tear projectile it's alright. My first time it felt fun was when I got the laser tears and didn't have the annoying terrible default projectile.

Muramasa is rad.

Getting super broken runs feel insanely satisfying. I love getting different tear upgrades like lasers or moms knife.

 

[skLaFarebear]

It doesn't have a whip and the castle is randomly generated each time you die. You have to fight 4 different bosses to open a door to fight the final boss. It's metroidvania in the sense that you can chose which bosses to go for in whatever order but there aren't any special abilities you get to unlock new areas or whatever.

Oh, alright then. I just assume when people compare it to castlevania, they mean 1-4 (not 2). Castlevania and Metroidvania (almost everything after and including SotN) just feel so different when you compare them though so I just interpreted it wrong.

 

[RecursiveFault]

Getting super broken runs feel insanely satisfying. I love getting different tear upgrades like lasers or moms knife.

Just getting a shot speed or tears upgrade does wonders for me.

Oh, alright then. I just assume when people compare it to castlevania, they mean 1-4 (not 2).

That was what I meant, but demidar pointed out you can continue moving while attacking, which does change a lot.

 

[croten]

Just getting a shot speed or tears upgrade does wonders for me.
That was what I meant, but demidar pointed out you can continue moving while attacking, which does change a lot.

I think it was fixed slightly but there were a ton of problems with the shot speed upgrade in vanilla. It actually turned out that getting shot speed makes you worse.

 

[RecursiveFault]

I think it was fixed slightly but there were a ton of problems with the shot speed upgrade in vanilla. It actually turned out that getting shot speed makes you worse.

Whooooa, seriously? That might be why I am enjoying Rebirth way more. Also having more room for error on Normal until I get some upgrades cause I'm a wimp.

 

[Aaron-Lagann]

Rockstar goes with nothing. Trying to drink it with any food ends up terrible.

 

[croten]

Whooooa, seriously? That might be why I am enjoying Rebirth way more. Also having more room for error on Normal until I get some upgrades cause I'm a wimp.

I'm not sure exactly what it was but items like lump of coal became worse with shot speed, now most items that have shot speed up have other benefits as well.
I think curving tear shots becomes harder with shot speed.

 

[MillionStabs]

Shovel Knight's game feel is closer to classic Castlevania than Rogue Legacy.

Spoiler

I like how everyone just knows what game feel is.

Shovel Knight feels like Mega Man smooshed with Castlevania

 

[Archgan]

I'm not sure exactly what it was but items like lump of coal became worse with shot speed, now most items that have shot speed up have other benefits as well.
I think curving tear shots becomes harder with shot speed.

Wait, isn't shot speed rate of fire? If not, which stat affects that?

 

[RecursiveFault]

I'm not sure exactly what it was but items like lump of coal became worse with shot speed, now most items that have shot speed up have other benefits as well.
I think curving tear shots becomes harder with shot speed.

Oh huh, wow.

Shovel Knight feels like Mega Man smooshed with Castlevania

It's basically my favorite things mashed together with a sprinkle of Zelda 2/Ducktales.

Wait, isn't shot speed rate of fire? If not, which stat affects that?

That's tears, I beleive.

 

[croten]

Wait, isn't shot speed rate of fire? If not, which stat affects that?

Tears up is rate of fire, shot speed is the speed at which the projectile moves

 

[mrmyhthef]

I'm not sure exactly what it was but items like lump of coal became worse with shot speed, now most items that have shot speed up have other benefits as well.
I think curving tear shots becomes harder with shot speed.

It also increases knockback on enemies which can lead to unpredictable movements. Really apparent against certain enemies like the little Gemini twin.

 

[Oberon]

Mr. Mooroka was right, good scores leads to populary, and that leads to intimacy.
Today I got pat on the shoulder for having a great score on my test.
That makes me want to watch the P4 endurance run again....

Pat and Woolie P5 LP or burst

 

[croten]

Think of it this way.
When you shoot at point A your tear will land at point B, the only stat that will change that is range.
say it takes 2 seconds to get a tear from point A to point B, the more you increase your shot speed the less time it takes meaning that your tears are in the air for less time. The lump of coal item makes tears stronger the longer they are in the air meaning that shot speed reduced that items effectiveness. That has been patched I believe but I think it's still supposed to be a bad upgrade regardless.

EDIT: shot speed not lump of coal.

 

[RecursiveFault]

Combined with air dashes and having proper control over your character during jumps as well, the game eventually becomes some weird bullet-hell, platformer kind of hybrid where you'll tend to avoid the multiple enemies and projectiles the game throws at you and only kill enemies that are in your way, all the while dodging attacks by moving while attacking or doing dair moves to use enemies as platforms to get higher up. Rogue Legacy for a starter or average player is completely different from Rogue legacy for an advanced player.

That comparison actually makes a lot of sense. Thinking about enemy's attacks that way makes a lot more sense. I can't say it makes me want to play it, but I can see what it's trying to do now, where you're focusing on defense with occasionally applying offense.

Think of it this way.
When you shoot at point A your tear will land at point B, the only stat that will change that is range.
say it takes 2 seconds to get a tear from point A to point B, the more you increase your shot speed the less time it takes meaning that your tears are in the air for less time. The lump of coal item makes tears stronger the longer they are in the air meaning that shot speed reduced that items effectiveness. That has been patched I believe but I think it's still supposed to be a bad upgrade regardless.

EDIT: shot speed not lump of coal.

Ah I gotcha. The way upgrades interact is interesting.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

Gettin' hype for Kamen Rider!

 

[CthulhuSushi]

Yo Ippo is getting hype as fuck!