Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U DLC |OT2| Lucas comes out of Nowhere!

Karsticles said:
The only nerf I want for her is for Luma to be disabled longer after Rosalina is hit or grabbed. It is too easy for Rosalina to get free hits in when she should be getting hit.
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Neki said:
I have gotten some fraudulent wins that way, and I honestly wouldn't mind if they did increase that time if they left everything else untouched. Otherwise, I don't feel like she's a character that deserves nerfs. Though a great character, her huge hitbox and extremely light weight balance out some of her more powerful qualities. Along with a lack of killing movies, I think she's relatively fair, though customs is another story. I don't even think customless Rosalina is that good.
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I think I'd heavily reduce the lag on her luma shot return and not let luma act while returning to her unless she calls him manually. I don't really mind if it can act out of light hitstun like jabs or whatever, gotta give the mashers something, but not being able to chase her into the air because luma's return path will intercept you is at least the 3rd most obnoxious thing ever.

Nabster92 said:
Bowser in grand finals on rush hour smash stream against the Nintendo World Championship champ playing as WFT. http://www.twitch.tv/rushhoursmash
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Nice, he switched to Sheik after going down 0-2. The scumbag tech.
 
Neki said:
I have gotten some fraudulent wins that way, and I honestly wouldn't mind if they did increase that time if they left everything else untouched. Otherwise, I don't feel like she's a character that deserves nerfs. Though a great character, her huge hitbox and extremely light weight balance out some of her more powerful qualities. Along with a lack of killing movies, I think she's relatively fair, though customs is another story. I don't even think customless Rosalina is that good.
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Speaking of that weird "losslessness" property that Luma has, I noticed the other day that Duck Hunt's cans are the same way - not just while doing other attacks and whatnot, that is. You can still move them around when you're helpless, which makes me wonder if there have been any clutch KOs using that method.
 
Anyone looking to play?

Of course I come across a good player on FG, they win 2 close games, I win the third where they killed me at 30%, and they leave...

I sent a replay to you Bowser players showing a secret tech that Bowser can do to beat Yoshi. Works 1/1 times.
 
NamikazeBurst said:
Anyone looking to play?

Of course I come across a good player on FG, they win 2 close games, I win the third where they killed me at 30%, and they leave...
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The same happened to me today. I played three close matches against a Roy, and he left after that. Kind of a shame, but at least he was a nice guy, changing his name to "Good game" after each game and used "Later" before leaving.

I think I might've finally gotten back to not downright sucking with Pac-Man. His quirky aerials, reliance on good reads or not-so-simple kill setups and ridiculously awful grab are things you need to adapt to after playing other characters for a while. I also realized I have to use his ftilt a lot more, since it's actually damn good (nice range, decent damage and really low start-up and recovery).

Also, I love trolling characters with trampolines. It's cool that using them right next to an opponent guarantees a hit since they're forced to jump (no shield), and it also limits characters with very ground-based approaches (ie: Sonic).

It's a bit annoying that using almost anybody other than Pac-Man for long periods of time guarantees that I'll suck with him when I switch back, even though I guess the switch isn't nearly as radical as with Megaman.
 
Neki said:
I have gotten some fraudulent wins that way, and I honestly wouldn't mind if they did increase that time if they left everything else untouched. Otherwise, I don't feel like she's a character that deserves nerfs. Though a great character, her huge hitbox and extremely light weight balance out some of her more powerful qualities. Along with a lack of killing movies, I think she's relatively fair, though customs is another story. I don't even think customless Rosalina is that good.
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She is good, and she kills just fine. I agree that without customs, she is balanced, though.

Nabster92 said:
Bowser in grand finals on rush hour smash stream against the Nintendo World Championship champ playing as WFT. http://www.twitch.tv/rushhoursmash
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Thulius said:
Nice, he switched to Sheik after going down 0-2. The scumbag tech.
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Lol. Worth watching?
 
NamikazeBurst said:
Anyone looking to play?

Of course I come across a good player on FG, they win 2 close games, I win the third where they killed me at 30%, and they leave...

I sent a replay to you Bowser players showing a secret tech that Bowser can do to beat Yoshi. Works 1/1 times.
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Haha. Klaw off the ledge?

NamikazeBurst said:
He was pretty good. I never knew Ness could be hit when using up-B back to the ledge.
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I will check out the archive then.
 
Thulius said:
He seemed pretty good from what I saw but I mean, he was fighting WFT. Not much Bowser can do about the runaway game and he was clearly frustrated by the time he switched to Sheik so the last game was slop city.
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You can just Bair WFT's projectiles. And if you get buried just sit there until they throw their dumbass volleyball.
 
Neki said:
I have gotten some fraudulent wins that way, and I honestly wouldn't mind if they did increase that time if they left everything else untouched. Otherwise, I don't feel like she's a character that deserves nerfs. Though a great character, her huge hitbox and extremely light weight balance out some of her more powerful qualities. Along with a lack of killing movies, I think she's relatively fair, though customs is another story. I don't even think customless Rosalina is that good.
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Thulius said:
I think I'd heavily reduce the lag on her luma shot return and not let luma act while returning to her unless she calls him manually. I don't really mind if it can act out of light hitstun like jabs or whatever, gotta give the mashers something, but not being able to chase her into the air because luma's return path will intercept you is at least the 3rd most obnoxious thing ever.



Nice, he switched to Sheik after going down 0-2. The scumbag tech.
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I don't think the hits with Luma after Rosalina gets hit are necessarily fraudulent. Luma can't act after Rosalina gets hit until Rosalina can act herself, and if you didn't hit Luma away along with Rosalina and are still standing in the same spot after her hitstun is done, you should know the matchup enough to know that you are vulnerable to getting hit when Rosalina is out of hitstun. If you hit Rosalina and can actually follow up with a combo before her hitstun is finished, Luma isn't going to stop you from doing so. If not, you may get hit by a Luma u-air the same way you might get hit by a fast n-air from many other characters. If you tried to go in on Luigi after hitting him and took a n-air to the face, you wouldn't call that Luigi getting a free hit when he should be getting hit. You chased too hard and got punished for it.

If you go for a grab on someone that is able to throw out a jab right before your grab, the grab will break immediately as you get hit by the jab. If you try to grab Rosalina while Luma is tethered and she has time to start an attack before your grab, Luma may hit you out of of the grab in the same way since the attack already started. The only thing Luma possibly saves Rosa from more so than other characters when getting grabbed is when they try to pummel after the grab with a character whose pummel doesn't also hit Luma. If you grab and throw Rosalina without idling around for a stupid amount of time holding her, Luma can't do shit to you and a lot of times will end up dying from the knockback of Rosalina getting thrown. 99% of the time in the case of Mario's back throw.

Luma shot return is already a lot faster than it was in the 3DS in the beginning, so when you manually call Luma back, Luma has to be really far away to actually be able to do an attack while returning, and if you try to call Luma back when you're too close to the opponent, Rosa should be easily punished for it. The times that Luma usually is able to attack while returning to Rosalina is only when Luma is still actually tethered to Rosalina and Rosalina is hit away from it. Then Luma starts to come back after a set amount of time in a few seconds automatically or starts to come back immediately if Rosalina does an attack. If you're already too far away from Luma to get hit by Rosa attacking to bring it back earlier, then Rosa has to wait for that set amount of time before it starts coming back itself and then do the attack to be able to reach you. I feel like pretty much all of the "janky", "free" hits that Luma gets on people are entirely avoidable with matchup knowledge and understanding how Luma works.

Learn how Luma's dirty asshole tricks work and what you need to do to avoid them before just saying she needs teh nerfs. Rosalina already got her jab finisher nerfed this patch ;_;
 
If you guys want to see something really pitiful, look at the Mewtwo social thread on Smashboards. Some people...

NamikazeBurst said:
You, Cronox, and Karsticles. I guess I forgot Boney, but I don't see him as a Bowser.



No, Bowsercide was a guy I just fought on Anther's. I still managed to recover the stock lead :)

What the guy did could only work against Yoshi.
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Since I don't have internet for two more days, do you mind telling me?

Imo, the best thing Bowser has against Yoshi is Fire Breath during Yoshi's recovery.

MagiusNecros said:
Did this guy powershield or die then? Well obviously he died but did he at least attempt it?
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No clue. Didn't watch the video. :p

Shamrock7r said:
Thanks for training me SmashGAF. Just got back from a local tourney. Won without losing a single match. Nothing big, but still.
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All Ness?
 
Karsticles said:
If you guys want to see something really pitiful, look at the Mewtwo social thread on Smashboards. Some people...


Since I don't have internet for two more days, do you mind telling me?

Imo, the best thing Bowser has against Yoshi is Fire Breath during Yoshi's recovery.


No clue. Didn't watch the video. :p


All Ness?
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Mixed in some Lucas in matches I knew I could win, but when it got to the ladder half of the ladder I went all Ness
 
Well I need to see this Bowser replay. And train my Amiibo.

And maybe play around with Ganon's Flame Wave a bit more. Since I rediscovered my obsession with command grab KO moves.
 
Karsticles said:
If you guys want to see something really pitiful, look at the Mewtwo social thread on Smashboards. Some people...


Since I don't have internet for two more days, do you mind telling me?

Imo, the best thing Bowser has against Yoshi is Fire Breath during Yoshi's recovery.
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I had him off-stage and he was recovering high, so I went to jump and up-air which probably would've killed, but I wasn't fast enough and he down-aired me. I was at really low % so it didn't spike, but I didn't have my jump to recover. Anyone else and I could've just used up-B.
 
Going on Smashboards to have any philosophical or moral discussion about anything is just... lol...

Course, I can say that about a lot of message boards/forums...
 
Karsticles said:
If you guys want to see something really pitiful, look at the Mewtwo social thread on Smashboards. Some people...
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Are they super pessimistic or something? :O I'm gonna scope it out.


I don't know whether I'm just under the weather or if I'm growing tired of Smashing despite taking whole days off of playing it. New characters are fun though, playing Charizard and the Dorf requires me to put a lot more thought into my actions since their frame data limits their options and they can't just stay back all the time.

I also have to do the ranbats, but to be honest I think I'll just pick secondaries for all of them and skip next season. I need a new competitive fire in me, and the spark isn't there yet. :(
 
Grats to Shamrock!

I would play someone now, but my internet is being iffy atm for no damn reason. Havent played in like 3 days. Wii Fit Trainers are calling to me...... u.u;
 
Nabster92 said:
Luma shot return is already a lot faster than it was in the 3DS in the beginning, so when you manually call Luma back, Luma has to be really far away to actually be able to do an attack while returning, and if you try to call Luma back when you're too close to the opponent, Rosa should be easily punished for it. The times that Luma usually is able to attack while returning to Rosalina is only when Luma is still actually tethered to Rosalina and Rosalina is hit away from it. Then Luma starts to come back after a set amount of time in a few seconds automatically or starts to come back immediately if Rosalina does an attack. If you're already too far away from Luma to get hit by Rosa attacking to bring it back earlier, then Rosa has to wait for that set amount of time before it starts coming back itself and then do the attack to be able to reach you. I feel like pretty much all of the "janky", "free" hits that Luma gets on people are entirely avoidable with matchup knowledge and understanding how Luma works.

Learn how Luma's dirty asshole tricks work and what you need to do to avoid them before just saying she needs teh nerfs. Rosalina already got her jab finisher nerfed this patch ;_;
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To clarify, what I meant was Rosalina herself should recover faster and Luma should be free to do whatever while returning. Make it a conscious decision and increase the risk if the opponent's already on top of her without reducing Luma's effectiveness. As it is now, Rosalina and Luma both attack if she just mashes which means on top of worrying about Luma's path you have to look out for her crazy disjointed Uair/Dair. It's a mindless defensive option that covers way too much space for no reason.

For the record I hate Luigi's Nair even more than Luma's nonsense and I don't feel like the person who got hit should be favored in the followup guessing game ever but that stuff's obviously not going away at this point so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
NamikazeBurst said:
I had him off-stage and he was recovering high, so I went to jump and up-air which probably would've killed, but I wasn't fast enough and he down-aired me. I was at really low % so it didn't spike, but I didn't have my jump to recover. Anyone else and I could've just used up-B.
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Ah. Old news, I am afraid. :p
 
Alright nobody should be using Netflix this time and ruining the connection. Anyone up for a 1v1 with Evo rules? Only about two weeks left so I better get as ready as I can.

Although it'd probably be a good idea to practice those other games I signed up for that I haven't touched more since Smash came out so, uh...hopefully later

If anyone from bracket 5 is here that works too.
 
SolarKnight said:
Alright nobody should be using Netflix this time and ruining the connection. Anyone up for a 1v1 with Evo rules? Only about two weeks left so I better get as ready as I can.

Although it'd probably be a good idea to practice those other games I signed up for that I haven't touched more since Smash came out so, uh...hopefully later

If anyone from bracket 5 is here that works too.
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I'll play. Just got Gold III on Anther's so I am done there for now.

What are EVO rules? I know it has customs, but what about stocks and time?
 
Thulius said:
To clarify, what I meant was Rosalina herself should recover faster and Luma should be free to do whatever while returning. Make it a conscious decision and increase the risk if the opponent's already on top of her without reducing Luma's effectiveness. As it is now, Rosalina and Luma both attack if she just mashes which means on top of worrying about Luma's path you have to look out for her crazy disjointed Uair/Dair. It's a mindless defensive option that covers way too much space for no reason.

For the record I hate Luigi's Nair even more than Luma's nonsense and I don't feel like the person who got hit should be favored in the followup guessing game ever but that stuff's obviously not going away at this point so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I don't think being able to attack with a quick aerial out of hitstun necessarily makes the follow up guessing game favor you. If you follow up an attack that's not a true combo, it turns into just that, a guessing game. Not the I should get a free follow up game. If the Rosalina is mindlessly mashing the attack out of hitstun, you're still in a favorable position to just shield or air dodge and punish her if you guessed that correctly. Maybe it would make more sense if Luma just actually followed along with Rosa when she gets hit so she just has the faster Luma aerial like many other characters with fast aerials except the fact that she would lack that when Luma is dead. Also if that happened, you would lose being able to snipe Luma to death after hitting Rosa away, which could possibly create even more salt against Luma. So yea, I dunno either. I don't think she particularly needs that much major changing from the way she is now.
 
GGs Solar. I am all smashed out. I had equipment on those last two characters, but it didn't really help Zelda. You rely way too much on customs, and that is probably your biggest weakness.
 
haha wow. Lucas's Dsmash really disrupts Pika's quick attack

edit: GGs Twilt. Really dissapointed in some of those Lucas matches. Can't believe I was up so many times last stock and lost it. Gotta work on that. Overall though I got most of his game down. Just need to finish better.
 
Nabster92 said:
I don't think being able to attack with a quick aerial out of hitstun necessarily makes the follow up guessing game favor you. If you follow up an attack that's not a true combo, it turns into just that, a guessing game. Not the I should get a free follow up game. If the Rosalina is mindlessly mashing the attack out of hitstun, you're still in a favorable position to just shield or air dodge and punish her if you guessed that correctly. Maybe it would make more sense if Luma just actually followed along with Rosa when she gets hit so she just has the faster Luma aerial like many other characters with fast aerials except the fact that she would lack that when Luma is dead. Also if that happened, you would lose being able to snipe Luma to death after hitting Rosa away, which could possibly create even more salt against Luma. So yea, I dunno either. I don't think she particularly needs that much major changing from the way she is now.
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The reason I wouldn't mind how Luma acts on return is all the better players on my scene just naturally shield or hit luma when they've knocked me away. The trick really only works when someone forgets, or if they lack match-up knowledge like you said. I must admit watching a player sit in shield for 3+ seconds when Luma is beside them and I'm all the other way on the map never gets old though. :P I'll still take those Luma down air kills that happen when she is returning from the other side of the map and she does a drive by though. :P
 
Nabster92 said:
I don't think being able to attack with a quick aerial out of hitstun necessarily makes the follow up guessing game favor you. If you follow up an attack that's not a true combo, it turns into just that, a guessing game. Not the I should get a free follow up game. If the Rosalina is mindlessly mashing the attack out of hitstun, you're still in a favorable position to just shield or air dodge and punish her if you guessed that correctly. Maybe it would make more sense if Luma just actually followed along with Rosa when she gets hit so she just has the faster Luma aerial like many other characters with fast aerials except the fact that she would lack that when Luma is dead. Also if that happened, you would lose being able to snipe Luma to death after hitting Rosa away, which could possibly create even more salt against Luma. So yea, I dunno either. I don't think she particularly needs that much major changing from the way she is now.
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I would say having an aerial that starts faster than airdodge, beats more approaches than airdodge, is less punishable than airdodge and has less landing lag than airdodge is a pretty heavy advantage over characters that don't have that option. Rosalina is not the worst of it by far when there are characters like Yoshi, Luigi, and Sheik, and while I agree she's not really a problem compared to some stronger characters, to say they're not favored in such situations seems kinda silly.

Plenty of characters have the tools to deal with it, but some just don't. Still, I guess a lot of the characters that can't deal with it are either heavy hitters or zoning characters that are mostly fine with taking one hit and resetting to neutral.

Maybe this is just a Mewtwo problem. Maybe I'm just bitter. Maybe they should just make all of Mewtwo's tail attacks completely disjointed so he can be top tier and everyone else can complain.
 
NamikazeBurst said:
GGs Solar. I am all smashed out. I had equipment on those last two characters, but it didn't really help Zelda. You rely way too much on customs, and that is probably your biggest weakness.
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GGs, I'm not really sure I see what you mean tho.

Neki said:
The reason I wouldn't mind how Luma acts on return is all the better players on my scene just naturally shield or hit luma when they've knocked me away. The trick really only works when someone forgets, or if they lack match-up knowledge like you said. I must admit watching a player sit in shield for 3+ seconds when Luma is beside them and I'm all the other way on the map never gets old though. :P I'll still take those Luma down air kills that happen when she is returning from the other side of the map and she does a drive by though. :P
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Are you up for the ranbat match rn?
 
Went 1-2 at the Foundry tonight. Lost in the dumbest way, too. Bounced off the edge of the stage and got an airdodge in place of a techroll, and got cracked off the edge.
 
SolarKnight said:
GGs, I'm not really sure I see what you mean tho.
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You depend on twisting fox for a lot of your kills, and you throw it out often hoping it will hit. If I know it is coming, it is easy to dodge. You also won't be prepared for when customs likely get banned if you rely on specific specials too much.
 
NamikazeBurst said:
You depend on twisting fox for a lot of your kills, and you throw it out often hoping it will hit. If I know it is coming, it is easy to dodge. You also won't be prepared for when customs likely get banned if you rely on specific specials too much.
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I'm pretty sure I threw out more up airs trying to hit you in the air than Twisting Fox precisely because I know you were expecting it.
 
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