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[Astral/H3X]

Somehow it's always misplays that lead to new ideas on how to play Zelda.

Never thought of using Farore's Wind on a person constantly ledge grabbing. The hitbox is big and goes below many stages resulting in a spike or stage spike.

Isn't that how everything is found? I realized I could use Peach Bomber on roll spammers due to a missed input.

 

[Karsticles]

Oh come now Karst you are playing the victim here too much now. You would really take Pac's grab over Mewtwo's? I don't believe it

I should have been more clear, but I meant the hitbox + active frames, not the throw follow-ups. I would love a ranged throw on Mewtwo, even if it is a bit slow. If I had to take the follow-ups...no way, haha.

 

[Wyndstryker]

Isn't that how everything is found? I realized I could use Peach Bomber on roll spammers due to a missed input.

Not all the time. Today I learned I can use a jab to stop ganon's warlock kick on the ground from watching a really bad replay on the replay channel lol.

 

[Shamrock7r]

I should have been more clear, but I meant the hitbox + active frames, not the throw follow-ups. I would love a ranged throw on Mewtwo, even if it is a bit slow. If I had to take the follow-ups...no way, haha.

But Pac's range isn't worth it. It's the crappiest ranged throw. All close grabbing throws are better save for maybe a few, but definitely not Mewtwo's

 

[Astral/H3X]

So I'm watching some Youtube videos, and in one of them, the other player performs a get up attack from ledge, and immediately the Youtuber starts berating him for being such a shitty player as to use the ledge attack. Didn't wait for him to do it repeatedly, or... anything. First get up, he starts talking shit about it.

Now, I know it's a terrible idea to ALWAYS ledge attack because it's slow and can be shielded, but if the other player is charging an up smash (and thus not shielding), why WOULDN'T you use a get up attack to interrupt the charging? Or is this guy just bitchin for bitching's sake? I use lots of interspersed ledge attacks when the other player is clearly vulnerable and the hit is guaranteed, but is it supposed to literally always be the worst option?

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

CRQ, do you feel like Hammer or Burning Spin Dash would be better against Fox? I have an idea, but just trying to get an opinion.

Sorry for being late, I got back from a local. Lost to Luigi because I've haven't played a good Luigi in a while (sorry Namikaze, but Fox v. Luigi is most definitely in Luigi's favor.)

I played Flux who used Hammer but I didn't use Fox, all I can say is Hammer changes the matchup way more than burning does, it becomes very tricky to approach though with customs Fox can force it with his blasters. I'm not knowledgeable on how it would go, just that I dislike what Hammer does to the matchup with any characters. As far as I'm aware, Burning is a good weak hit but it always felt like you only used it because you didn't want to rely on Hammer.

 

[Karsticles]

But Pac's range isn't worth it. It's the crappiest ranged throw. All close grabbing throws are better save for maybe a few, but definitely not Mewtwo's

It would be worth it for Mewtwo just because he has so many situations that I wish he could shield grab, but that he can't. Just stuff like Yoshi mashing jab combos over and over, and Mewtwo can't do anything at all about it. I don't disagree that Pac-man has the worst range throw, though. If Mewtwo didn't have the second worst throw in the game, it probably wouldn't be an upgrade, haha.

So I'm watching some Youtube videos, and in one of them, the other player performs a get up attack from ledge, and immediately the Youtuber starts berating him for being such a shitty player as to use the ledge attack. Didn't wait for him to do it repeatedly, or... anything. First get up, he starts talking shit about it.

Now, I know it's a terrible idea to ALWAYS ledge attack because it's slow and can be shielded, but if the other player is charging an up smash (and thus not shielding), why WOULDN'T you use a get up attack to interrupt the charging? Or is this guy just bitchin for bitching's sake? I use lots of interspersed ledge attacks when the other player is clearly vulnerable and the hit is guaranteed, but is it supposed to literally always be the worst option?

Ledge get-up attacks are still vulnerable for 1 frame before they hit. Choosing to punish during the smash attack charge can get you killed. It is better to wait for the attack to release, and then get-up attack to punish.

In terms of punishment frames, get-up attacks are by far the most vulnerable. Bowser can get an Fsmash off if he perfect shields one, even. Huge punishment opportunity.

However, use whatever works for you. Some people just get angry. Without seeing the video myself, I don't know more than I do.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Yo Karst, how do you think of Bowser vs. Charizard? Played a Bowser here and while he wasn't as aggressive as you he knew his shit, yet I beat him like 75% of the time thanks to armor and Flare Blitz.

 

[Karsticles]

Yo Karst, how do you think of Bowser vs. Charizard? Played a Bowser here and while he wasn't as aggressive as you he knew his shit, yet I beat him like 75% of the time thanks to armor and Flare Blitz.

I think the matchup is in Charizard's favor:
1) Zard has better range on his attacks.
2) Zard flamethrower > Bowser's.
3) Zard has better landing options.
4) Zard has head invincibility on his fsmash. -_-

I don't think it is significantly in Charizard's favor, but maybe 55-45.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

Yo Karst, how do you think of Bowser vs. Charizard? Played a Bowser here and while he wasn't as aggressive as you he knew his shit, yet I beat him like 75% of the time thanks to armor and Flare Blitz.

Charizard is just a better Bowser, don't you know

I'm not doing well with Greninja. I never get 2 stocks and most games are pretty close.

 

[Astral/H3X]

It would be worth it for Mewtwo just because he has so many situations that I wish he could shield grab, but that he can't. Just stuff like Yoshi mashing jab combos over and over, and Mewtwo can't do anything at all about it. I don't disagree that Pac-man has the worst range throw, though. If Mewtwo didn't have the second worst throw in the game, it probably wouldn't be an upgrade, haha.


Ledge get-up attacks are still vulnerable for 1 frame before they hit. Choosing to punish during the smash attack charge can get you killed. It is better to wait for the attack to release, and then get-up attack to punish.

In terms of punishment frames, get-up attacks are by far the most vulnerable. Bowser can get an Fsmash off if he perfect shields one, even. Huge punishment opportunity.

However, use whatever works for you. Some people just get angry. Without seeing the video myself, I don't know more than I do.

I know I use them more often than this, but my TYPICAL usage of a getup attack is when I've knocked the enemy down right at the ledge, or they are tumbling onto it, and I time it so that I smack them as they are in the getting up animation. There's a few other times, but I guess I must be careful with them, because I can't think of any times in particular where I've been punished doing it (at least not lately).

 

[Wyndstryker]

Ledge get-up attacks are still vulnerable for 1 frame before they hit. Choosing to punish during the smash attack charge can get you killed. It is better to wait for the attack to release, and then get-up attack to punish.

In terms of punishment frames, get-up attacks are by far the most vulnerable. Bowser can get an Fsmash off if he perfect shields one, even. Huge punishment opportunity.

For chars that have multi-hit moves, it helps their edge guarding by a ton. Just catching the one frame can end a match. Many many times I've gotten away with doing a charged smash with Zelda on people getting back on stage.

 

[Karsticles]

I know I use them more often than this, but my TYPICAL usage of a getup attack is when I've knocked the enemy down right at the ledge, or they are tumbling onto it, and I time it so that I smack them as they are in the getting up animation. There's a few other times, but I guess I must be careful with them, because I can't think of any times in particular where I've been punished doing it (at least not lately).

If you aren't getting punished, don't worry.

Charizard is just a better Bowser, don't you know

I'm not doing well with Greninja. I never get 2 stocks and most games are pretty close.

I think of Charizard like a more aggressive version of Bowser. Safe aerial approach, better spacing, great roll punish, etc. Play Charizard if you want to go in, play Bowser if you want to turtle. ^_^

For chars that have multi-hit moves, it helps their edge guarding by a ton. Just catching the one frame can end a match. Many many times I've gotten away with doing a charged smash with Zelda on people getting back on stage.

No doubt. I Nair with Mewtwo by the ledge all the time.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

I think the matchup is in Charizard's favor:
1) Zard has better range on his attacks.
2) Zard flamethrower > Bowser's.
3) Zard has better landing options.
4) Zard has head invincibility on his fsmash. -_-

I don't think it is significantly in Charizard's favor, but maybe 55-45.

That sounds about right, I'd say the armor makes it 60-40. I tanked fsmashes at 100% with a well-timed down-B lol, dude got pissed everytime I rocked through an attack.

Charizard is just a better Bowser, don't you know

I'm not doing well with Greninja. I never get 2 stocks and most games are pretty close.

I feel like they're two different types of fire-spewing lizard. Charizard's armor is offensive so he goes in, while Bowser's armor lets him play the punish game and they gotta fix fortress.

 

[Cyberman65]

Sorry for being late, I got back from a local. Lost to Luigi because I've haven't played a good Luigi in a while (sorry Namikaze, but Fox v. Luigi is most definitely in Luigi's favor.)

I played Flux who used Hammer but I didn't use Fox, all I can say is Hammer changes the matchup way more than burning does, it becomes very tricky to approach though with customs Fox can force it with his blasters. I'm not knowledgeable on how it would go, just that I dislike what Hammer does to the matchup with any characters. As far as I'm aware, Burning is a good weak hit but it always felt like you only used it because you didn't want to rely on Hammer.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I dunno why, but I always hate using Hammer besides using it against Kong Cyclone, since it's needed to beat that custom. Doesn't feel right at all. Its mostly why I've tried to make due with default/Burning. I just can't wait until customs aren't used in normal competitive play.

 

[Fandangox]

Been playing 3DS for glory and the players there aren't as good as on the Wii U plus Little Mac is t 3DS' Falcon, everyone uses him and not very effectively.

 

[NamikazeBurst]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I dunno why, but I always hate using Hammer besides using it against Kong Cyclone, since it's needed to beat that custom. Doesn't feel right at all. Its mostly why I've tried to make due with default/Burning. I just can't wait until customs aren't used in normal competitive play.

Hammer feels more unfair to me than Kong Cyclone. The thing takes a while to mash out of at 20%, never mind a guaranteed kill at like 80%. At least you can air dodge out of Kong Cyclone, and it doesn't kill until a lot later, unless you get a weird windbox thing going on.

 

[Crayolan]

Question about customs: if you use customs offline for smash mode do you get their damage ,speed, defensive buffs with equipment? I want to be able to use my custom moves but don't want to make it unfair against my friends since my guy has equipment .

You can just make another custom set without the equipment.

 

[Cyberman65]

Hammer feels more unfair to me than Kong Cyclone. The thing takes a while to mash out of at 20%, never mind a guaranteed kill at like 80%. At least you can air dodge out of Kong Cyclone, and it doesn't kill until a lot later, unless you get a weird windbox thing going on.

I kinda disagree about you on that. Kong Cyclone gives too much reward for what it does. I don't think any move like Kong Cyclone should have a windbox like that for getting a chance for earlier kills.

I've learn to just respect it and play patient against it, then just punish with Hammer since it comes out so quick before you can recover. But characters like, for say, Game & Watch, Kong Cyclone makes it so DK is the only character that can get out of his normal d-throw combo. Kinda dumb.

 

[Astral/H3X]

If you aren't getting punished, don't worry.

I suppose that is effective advice.

I'm hoping to play some more tomorrow. Been spending a looooottttt of time with the GF (she lives 20 minutes away right now ) so haven't had much chance to hop on here, but I definitely need to try during the day.

 

[NamikazeBurst]

I kinda disagree about you on that. Kong Cyclone gives too much reward for what it does. I don't think any move like Kong Cyclone should have a windbox like that for getting a chance for earlier kills.

I've learn to just respect it and play patient against it, then just punish with Hammer since it comes out so quick before you can recover. But characters like, for say, Game & Watch, Kong Cyclone makes it so DK is the only character that can get out of his normal d-throw combo. Kinda dumb.

The thing about Kong Cyclone is it's extremely punishable if the user doesn't AC correctly. You can't really mess up and get punished off of Hammer Spin Dash. I do think both are extremely broken moves that shouldn't be able to be used competitively. These moves are two of the reasons why I want to go back to no customs. I use Kong Cyclone, and the only person I have fought that uses it against me is Anonymous Tipster, and I still want it gone.

Is G&W's down throw the one that combos into hammer at low %? If so, that is a pretty stupid combo by itself. To be killed at low percents just by getting grabbed and getting nined is not very fair. I know G&W isn't the best character, but that isn't what he needs to make him better.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Is G&W's down throw the one that combos into hammer at low %? If so, that is a pretty stupid combo by itself. To be killed at low percents just by getting grabbed and getting nined is not very fair. I know G&W isn't the best character, but that isn't what he needs to make him better.

To be fair G&W has an equal chance of 8 other effects happening that may not be optimal, including damaging himself and being put in a bad spot. It's not something that should be relied on unless you got Gimr's luck lol. You're better off following up with something else that's way more consistent even at low percents.

 

[Crayolan]

The thing about Kong Cyclone is it's extremely punishable if the user doesn't AC correctly. You can't really mess up and get punished off of Hammer Spin Dash. I do think both are extremely broken moves that shouldn't be able to be used competitively. These moves are two of the reasons why I want to go back to no customs. I use Kong Cyclone, and the only person I have fought that uses it against me is Anonymous Tipster, and I still want it gone.

Is G&W's down throw the one that combos into hammer at low %? If so, that is a pretty stupid combo by itself. To be killed at low percents just by getting grabbed and getting nined is not very fair. I know G&W isn't the best character, but that isn't what he needs to make him better.

It combos if you can read the thrown player's DI properly. It's only for a very small % range though, like 20~40 or something like that. Then, if you land it, it's a very small percent chance you actually get a 9. Seems fine to me. Hitting a hammer otherwise is really difficult and G&W sucks anyway.

 

[NamikazeBurst]

To be fair G&W has an equal chance of 8 other effects happening that may not be optimal, including damaging himself and being put in a bad spot. It's not something that should be relied on unless you got Gimr's luck lol. You're better off following up with something else that's way more consistent even at low percents.

Isn't there a custom that results in a 1 or 9 with equal chance? I would say getting a 9 is more valuable than whatever you lose from a punish off of a low number. I am not known for my safeness, though.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

Why does Game and Watch suck anyway? What is there aside from no KO options at all after the window for his down throw to up air is gone?

 

[Karsticles]

That sounds about right, I'd say the armor makes it 60-40. I tanked fsmashes at 100% with a well-timed down-B lol, dude got pissed everytime I rocked through an attack.


I feel like they're two different types of fire-spewing lizard. Charizard's armor is offensive so he goes in, while Bowser's armor lets him play the punish game and they gotta fix fortress.

Bowser doesn't have any armor. -_-

Why do so many people think he does?!

ZERO
ARMOR

Shout it from the rooftops!

I suppose that is effective advice.

I'm hoping to play some more tomorrow. Been spending a looooottttt of time with the GF (she lives 20 minutes away right now ) so haven't had much chance to hop on here, but I definitely need to try during the day.

1. Have her move in.
2. Make her wear that Peach outfit in your avatar.
3. Smash.
4. Profit.

Why does Game and Watch suck anyway? What is there aside from no KO options at all after the window for his down throw to up air is gone?

Best projectile absorber + RNG victories + best hitbox in the game, I guess. He does need buffs. His Fair and Bair should be safe, or something.

 

[Crayolan]

Why does Game and Watch suck anyway? What is there aside from no KO options at all after the window for his down throw to up air is gone?

He has no safe approach options, all his smashes are relatively weak and unsafe, and his only aerial which kills before like 120% is up air, but landing those are pretty rare. Tbh his best way to kill is to attempt to stage spike with up b.

 

[FSLink]

Bowser doesn't have any armor. -_-

Why do so many people think he does?!

ZERO
ARMOR

Shout it from the rooftops!

He has armor against moves that don't do much knockback.

"Bowser's a real tough guy. When he's only lightly damaged, weaker attacks won't make him flinch."

Not very useful against things that aren't like MM's lemons but it's there.


G&W has some decent moves, but he has no reliable kill option, and his extremely lightweight makes him vulnerable to getting killed easily especially against opponents with rage.

 

[Karsticles]

He has armor against moves that don't do much knockback.

"Bowser's a real tough guy. When he's only lightly damaged, weaker attacks won't make him flinch."

Not very useful against things that aren't like MM's lemons but it's there.


G&W has some decent moves, but he has no reliable kill option, and his extremely lightweight makes him vulnerable to getting killed easily especially against opponents with rage.

He doesn't have any armor he can actively use. Tough Guy affects almost nothing. It could not exist, and I would not give a shit. Neither would any other Bowser player. I wouldn't say he has armor even with Tough Guy, because in most matchups the opponent has a grand total of 0 attacks that trigger it. It's literally non-existent so much that I forget it's there.

 

[NamikazeBurst]

He doesn't have any armor he can actively use. Tough Guy affects almost nothing. It could not exist, and I would not give a shit. Neither would any other Bowser player. I wouldn't say he has armor even with Tough Guy, because in most matchups the opponent has a grand total of 0 attacks that trigger it. It's literally non-existent so much that I forget it's there.

I would say it is pretty helpful against Luigi.

 

[Karsticles]

I would say it is pretty helpful against Luigi.

Luigi recovers so fast that you can't punish unless you are at a full dash. If Bowser is at a full dash, Luigi should act appropriately. One grab and Bowser loses Tough Guy against the fireballs. Only minimally a factor, but one of the handful that it might play a role in. Most jabs are too good for Tough Guy. If they buffed it to be anything 5% or less at all % values, then it would be pretty badass.

 

[SolarKnight]

Isn't there a custom that results in a 1 or 9 with equal chance? I would say getting a 9 is more valuable than whatever you lose from a punish off of a low number. I am not known for my safeness, though.

Seeing how not even one of the cutom sets for GnW includes that custom I don't think his mains agree with you. Or at least didn't back when the sets were decided. The much increased chance of getting a 1 doesn't sound worth it.

 

[Cronox]

On the subject of SmashGAF tournament performance, if CEO is a major, I think we have a few people here who could get top 32. Top 8 is questionable. We have a real life example - our own Poltergust (hi if you're reading this!) who is a terrific Yoshi and destroyed me utterly when I played him, got 17th at CEO. Now who here can beat Poltergust? He was undefeated in our season 1 ranbats, season 2 has some weird win/loss reporting because I think he dropped out. There are probably a couple others on his level here, maybe Shamrock and Nabster being the closest

Spoiler

(personal call-outs yo!)

. So like I said, a few that could do top 32 (and maybe one or two more) given that they don't get put in a stacked pool, or run into their character's worst matchup etc. I mean, MVD did great at CEO, but if he had run into Dabuz earlier he might not have made top 8. He had no answers for Rosalina. Neither did Larry Lurr. Or Shaky.

So I think Karsticles is being a wee bit optimistic about us. Many of us are in the 85th percentile or higher of players, that much I don't doubt. But a major is serious stuff. I kind of wish I was living around a small Smash 4 community instead of North California so I could feel like I'm a dominating force, I think my best placing at the NorCal weekly was 17th of 64 or 72. We've got some pretty good players here, and I play terribly in tournaments. And in local play in general, since I'm so internet-trained.

I always forget to use iceballs because they only work in a few matchups.

I was using neutral-B quite a bit, but it was working! That very last kill I got was great.

I think I rely on fireballs too much as Luigi. I probably do this because I am not used to how slow his air speed is compared to Yoshi, so doing aerials feels completely different and less safe, even if he still has some pretty safe aerials.

Your neutral b momentum changing stuff is the kind of thing I wish Bowser had... without customs. Yeah I noticed you hanging back with him... Don't change that though, I need to remember to rush through the fireballs like I'm supposed to. Saw your picture of matches played... I'll give it to you, you've certainly done your time playing Yoshi. I don't know how or why you did it, but you did it.

Stuff like DI seems very inside baseball.

Snacks' DI videos about previous games don't tell the correct DI for Smash 4 unfortunately. Basically, Smash 4 has vectoring for horizontal knockback, and Melee DI for vertical. Given how little we care about vertical knockback most of the time, the main thing to internalize is if you're hit off the side and don't want to die, the best thing is to hold horizontally towards the stage (no diagonal). In Melee if you were sent left off the stage by a smash attack, you'd hold up and to the right (diagonal) for best DI, that's not the case in Smash 4.

Honestly, I'm still not sure about how to DI upthrows at high percents. Usually I just DI right/left horizontally, the the worst is to get sent straight up and my DI usually avoids that. But maybe I should be holding a diagonal there, like if Mewtwo is facing to the right and upthrows me, maybe I should hold up and to the right. Not entirely sure, but just make sure you do something to avoid the shortest distance to the blast-zone (ie going straight up).

More explanation here if you're looking for it.

Bowser doesn't have any armor. -_-

Why do so many people think he does?!

ZERO
ARMOR

Shout it from the rooftops!

His usmash is invincible, I think this gets people confused. Too bad about tough guy, it's only good for getting through Sheik, Little Mac and a couple other characters' jab combos at really low percent. And Luigi's fireballs.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

Hasn't Bowser's up smash always been invincible? I remember when this game came out on 3DS people were saying "WHERE'S THE HITBOX" and trying to figure the move out but he's just invincible, always has been as far as I know. But nobody played Bowser in Melee, so maybe not in that.

 

[Karsticles]

Hasn't Bowser's up smash always been invincible? I remember when this game came out on 3DS people were saying "WHERE'S THE HITBOX" and trying to figure the move out but he's just invincible, always has been as far as I know. But nobody played Bowser in Melee, so maybe not in that.

IDK. I wasn't a Bowser main in Melee, and in Brawl I was super casual until I quit after a month. Too bad we don't have Bowser's other shell attacks for more shell guard properties...

 

[FSLink]

He doesn't have any armor he can actively use. Tough Guy affects almost nothing. It could not exist, and I would not give a shit. Neither would any other Bowser player. I wouldn't say he has armor even with Tough Guy, because in most matchups the opponent has a grand total of 0 attacks that trigger it. It's literally non-existent so much that I forget it's there.

That + usmash invincibility is why people say he has armor. Because he has it.

It's just sadly garbage outside of niche situations.



I haven't played Poltergust in Smash 4 yet.
We did go to the last match in Winner's Finals in NeoGAF's online UMvC3 tournament and he managed to take it.

My best placing so far in my region was 17th in a 91 man bracket. I usually get top 8 when we have our usual 30-40 people brackets. I dunno, I always seem to do tons worse once I'm knocked into loser's bracket lol

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

I remember I was really close to beating Poltergust on the first season with Falco, but when he switched from Luigi to Yoshi I barely lost one match and made the foolish choice of switching to Ike and I got crushed.

Don't know how good he is now, but I imagine he's only improved since then given I like to think we all have.

And yeah, I don't doubt some of us here could make top 32 at a major or even top 16. Top 8 is a whole other league, especially at majors where you have to stand with top-level talent like Zero, Dabuz, Nairo, Larry Lurr, Nakat, and so on. I don't think anyone here is on the level of those top players, sorry to say.

 

[Karsticles]

That + usmash invincibility is why people say he has armor. Because he has it.

It's just sadly garbage outside of niche situations.

Invincibility is not armor.

Bowser doesn't have armor. Tough Guy doesn't exist.

I remember I was really close to beating Poltergust on the first season with Falco, but when he switched from Luigi to Yoshi I barely lost one match and made the foolish choice of switching to Ike and I got crushed.

Don't know how good he is now, but I imagine he's only improved since then given I like to think we all have.

And yeah, I don't doubt some of us here could make top 32 at a major or even top 16. Top 8 is a whole other league, especially at majors where you have to stand with top-level talent like Zero, Dabuz, Nairo, Larry Lurr, Nakat, and so on. I don't think anyone here is on the level of those top players, sorry to say.

All about that seeding!

 

[Astral/H3X]

1. Have her move in.
2. Make her wear that Peach outfit in your avatar.
3. Smash.
4. Profit.

Ha! We are poor and I have another semester of college soon, so not exactly feasible just yet.

Spoiler

Don't worry there are already outfits, though not of that.

 

[FSLink]

Invincibility is not armor.

Bowser doesn't have armor. Tough Guy doesn't exist.


All about that seeding!

I feel so too, but you're forgetting that the Smash community likes to throw around and interchange words like "priority" which has different meanings in other fighting games.

Sorry, Tough Guy exists. Can't ignore it man despite it being super niche.

 

[Karsticles]

I feel so too, but you're forgetting that the Smash community likes to throw around and interchange words like "priority" which has different meanings in other fighting games.

Sorry, Tough Guy exists. Can't ignore it man despite it being super niche.

In most matches, it literally does not exist.

It also doesn't function like normal super armor - it still mini-flinches, whereas super armored attacks like DK's up B don't flinch at all. I'm not sure on the specifics of how the two differ, but Tough Guy is kind of in its own category because of how it behaves. I don't think it's actually specifically programmed at all. I think it's the natural consequence of Bowser's weight.

Priority is kind of a weird word. It's not really a well-defined term, and in general means "tends to beat other stuff". Sometimes it's because of hitboxes, sometimes because of frame data. How do you see it used differently by the Smash community?

 

[Cronox]

By the way, anyone want to play?

 

[Karsticles]

By the way, anyone want to play?

I want to so bad, but it's so late. :-(

Will you be around tomorrow morning?

 

[NamikazeBurst]

Luigi recovers so fast that you can't punish unless you are at a full dash. If Bowser is at a full dash, Luigi should act appropriately. One grab and Bowser loses Tough Guy against the fireballs. Only minimally a factor, but one of the handful that it might play a role in. Most jabs are too good for Tough Guy. If they buffed it to be anything 5% or less at all % values, then it would be pretty badass.

Whatever Cronox does seems to work. My Luigi has a really tough time against him.

Seeing how not even one of the cutom sets for GnW includes that custom I don't think his mains agree with you. Or at least didn't back when the sets were decided. The much increased chance of getting a 1 doesn't sound worth it.

As I said, I don't exactly have the safest mindset. Realistically, it probably is better to go for the safer choice that gives less reward, but that isn't really how I play. I also haven't played G&W much.

On the subject of SmashGAF tournament performance, if CEO is a major, I think we have a few people here who could get top 32. Top 8 is questionable. We have a real life example - our own Poltergust (hi if you're reading this!) who is a terrific Yoshi and destroyed me utterly when I played him, got 17th at CEO. Now who here can beat Poltergust? He was undefeated in our season 1 ranbats, season 2 has some weird win/loss reporting because I think he dropped out. There are probably a couple others on his level here, maybe Shamrock and Nabster being the closest

Spoiler

(personal call-outs yo!)

. So like I said, a few that could do top 32 (and maybe one or two more) given that they don't get put in a stacked pool, or run into their character's worst matchup etc. I mean, MVD did great at CEO, but if he had run into Dabuz earlier he might not have made top 8. He had no answers for Rosalina. Neither did Larry Lurr. Or Shaky.

So I think Karsticles is being a wee bit optimistic about us. Many of us are in the 85th percentile or higher of players, that much I don't doubt. But a major is serious stuff. I kind of wish I was living around a small Smash 4 community instead of North California so I could feel like I'm a dominating force, I think my best placing at the NorCal weekly was 17th of 64 or 72. We've got some pretty good players here, and I play terribly in tournaments. And in local play in general, since I'm so internet-trained.

Your neutral b momentum changing stuff is the kind of thing I wish Bowser had... without customs. Yeah I noticed you hanging back with him... Don't change that though, I need to remember to rush through the fireballs like I'm supposed to. Saw your picture of matches played... I'll give it to you, you've certainly done your time playing Yoshi. I don't know how or why you did it, but you did it.

I really wish Poltergust didn't forfeit his ranbats match against me. I have fought a really good Yoshi on Anther's, but Poltergust is probably a lot better and I could learn so much.

I should probably play some people from the Smash group I just joined online first to see if they are super good or just average. You should consider yourself lucky to have a weekly. The group I just joined seems to meet-up one to two times a month.

The momentum shift off of Yoshi's B-reverse is quite nice. Luigi's is decent, but Yoshi's gives so much more, like that egg kill I got. If I could wavebounce consistently I would be able to get those kills a lot more often. While it might be nice for you, I don't want to make your time as Bowser against me any easier than it is. Sorry

Yoshi is the #1 character in the game. He is not the best in terms of strength, but he provides me the most enjoyment. For some reason I am able to play him a ton without getting bored, and Luigi is the next closest character to that. I want to be good with Sheik, but I can't stand playing her for long sessions. It also isn't easy to train as Sheik online.

 

[Karsticles]

Yoshi is the #1 character in the game.

The most important thing I read, completely out of context. Quoted forever.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Yoshi is the #1 character in the game.

Zero to go all Yoshi at Evo and win anyway.

 

[Cronox]

I want to so bad, but it's so late. :-(

Will you be around tomorrow morning?

Ha I will be around after 10am PST but that'll be your afternoon...

I should probably play some people from the Smash group I just joined online first to see if they are super good or just average. You should consider yourself lucky to have a weekly. The group I just joined seems to meet-up one to two times a month.

The momentum shift off of Yoshi's B-reverse is quite nice. Luigi's is decent, but Yoshi's gives so much more, like that egg kill I got. If I could wavebounce consistently I would be able to get those kills a lot more often. While it might be nice for you, I don't want to make your time as Bowser against me any easier than it is. Sorry

Yoshi is the #1 character in the game. He is not the best in terms of strength, but he provides me the most enjoyment. For some reason I am able to play him a ton without getting bored, and Luigi is the next closest character to that. I want to be good with Sheik, but I can't stand playing her for long sessions. It also isn't easy to train as Sheik online.

I think the weekly is overrated though. I have to drive 80+ minutes to get there 45 minutes before they start at 7:30pm, pay $5 entrance to the venue, another $5 to enter the tournament, then wait around in a noisy environment where I know pretty much no-one and don't have any friends to bounce off of. Usually I end up playing a total of 4-5, maybe 6 matches before I'm completely eliminated cause I choke like a motherfucker at tournaments. Literally I turn into a for glory scrub at times. So usually I get kicked out of losers' bracket around a bit after 10pm. Then I can either stay until 11pm in the hopes some setups will open up for friendlies until everything stops at 12, or I can get my ass back on the road and hopefully home by 11pm. I've done it maybe 4-5 times since January and I can't say I'm in a rush to go again soon. Of course every tournament is different, I know many take place in dedicated venues that aren't all that loud, and have more opportunities for friendlies. But let's just say having a big community nearby hasn't been a huge win for me personally.

I sympathize with the Sheik comment, I find her really difficult to play online.

 

[Karsticles]

Ha I will be around after 10am PST but that'll be your afternoon...



I think the weekly is overrated though. I have to drive 80+ minutes to get there 45 minutes before they start at 7:30pm, pay $5 entrance to the venue, another $5 to enter the tournament, then wait around in a noisy environment where I know pretty much no-one and don't have any friends to bounce off of. Usually I end up playing a total of 4-5, maybe 6 matches before I'm completely eliminated cause I choke like a motherfucker at tournaments. Literally I turn into a for glory scrub at times. So usually I get kicked out of losers' bracket around a bit after 10pm. Then I can either stay until 11pm in the hopes some setups will open up for friendlies until everything stops at 12, or I can get my ass back on the road and hopefully home by 11pm. I've done it maybe 4-5 times since January and I can't say I'm in a rush to go again soon. Of course every tournament is different, I know many take place in dedicated venues that aren't all that loud, and have more opportunities for friendlies. But let's just say having a big community nearby hasn't been a huge win for me personally.

I sympathize with the Sheik comment, I find her really difficult to play online.

That sucks. I went to a local like that once. Never again, especially since it was so crowded. Shoulder to shoulder at times in a small back area of a bar. I got to play 3 matches in 2 hours. Not fun.

Right now, we always have 1 dedicated station for friendlies at our weeklies. It usually has 8 people playing on it at a time, but it's still playing. If it's too crowded, I step on another machine. It helps playing everything. I'll jump in on Xrd, Marvel, MKX, Skullgirls, or SFIV if there's a spot. Love fighting games.

Maybe look for other weeklies?

I will be around in the afternoon.

 

[NamikazeBurst]

I think the weekly is overrated though. I have to drive 80+ minutes to get there 45 minutes before they start at 7:30pm, pay $5 entrance to the venue, another $5 to enter the tournament, then wait around in a noisy environment where I know pretty much no-one and don't have any friends to bounce off of. Usually I end up playing a total of 4-5, maybe 6 matches before I'm completely eliminated cause I choke like a motherfucker at tournaments. Literally I turn into a for glory scrub at times. So usually I get kicked out of losers' bracket around a bit after 10pm. Then I can either stay until 11pm in the hopes some setups will open up for friendlies until everything stops at 12, or I can get my ass back on the road and hopefully home by 11pm. I've done it maybe 4-5 times since January and I can't say I'm in a rush to go again soon. Of course every tournament is different, I know many take place in dedicated venues that aren't all that loud, and have more opportunities for friendlies. But let's just say having a big community nearby hasn't been a huge win for me personally.

I sympathize with the Sheik comment, I find her really difficult to play online.

Damn. I would never consider that far of a tournament unless it was some major thing with a bunch of top players going. The Toronto area has that sometimes, but that is at least a 2 hour drive from where I live. Not possible for someone who is 17.

The one place that the group holds tournaments near me is a bar. It seems there is a $10 venue fee, and then $5 per each event entered. Definitely doesn't interest me right now. The other place is a card shop, and I don't know how much it is because they haven't done a Wii U Smash tournament there yet. The place isn't very far from me, just 10-15 minutes, so I am interested right now. No idea how I will compete in a tournament setting. I won't know anyone and I am kinda an introvert.

We take what we can get. All I know is I just want to try my skills in a competitive setting outside of ranbats. I have been stuck fighting the same people that kick my ass every two months, so finding some new people to kick my ass will be a welcomed change. I haven't played nearly 4000 battles with Yoshi to give up anytime soon.

The most important thing I read, completely out of context. Quoted forever.

Zero to go all Yoshi at Evo and win anyway.

I'd like to see a citation for this quotation you are using.


Anyone looking to play?

 

[Professor Beef]

I think I like Pocket Garden. I'm gonna try and use it in matchups with nothing to steal.