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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U DLC |OT2| Lucas comes out of Nowhere!

F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Cyberman65 said:
Nothing is worst than a Sonic mirror. The more patient player wins.
Click to expand...

What!? Sonic mirrors are the best because it's about throwing patience out of the window! At least for me. I love all of the running around and lighting fast punishes that go on in those mirrors. To me, the more patient player actually loses pretty consistently in that MU.

It's totally like a ZvZ in SCII, and I love it for that. High speed, micro based battles that are totally crazy and are about outsmarting the other player while also having to think super quickly at the same time, because the opponent has the same ability you have to be super reactionary.
 
W

Wyndstryker

Member
Oidisco said:
Out of curiosity, what do do against them?

I don't have too much trouble against Mac on FG, I mainly just play super slow and rarely punish with a smash other than down-smash, since it comes out fast. I mostly just jump around and try to make them impatient and hope they start throwing out more attacks that I can punish with grabs or a dash attack. I also never use up-b against Mac, unless I read a roll away.
When they're off-stage, I drag Mac down with nair or if I think they're going to counter and I'm a stock ahead, I attack behind them so the counter will launch them away from the stage.
Click to expand...

I changed my matchup mindset to territory control. Basically keep them from getting close to me period. A combination of fireballs phantoms nairs and whatnot. Pressure them to move close with fireballs. If they go air use a Nair. If they go ground use a phantom. Then punish accordingly. Basically force them to move at your pace.
 
SoldnerKei

SoldnerKei

Member
Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
Fox mirrors consist of both players beating the shit out of each other until someone lands an usmash or uair.

They're surprisingly fun.
Click to expand...

we should do some of those... I like how Fox is played on this game, but I ofter forget that I am not playing Melee and I go full idiotic with him at that point... like literally I try to shine people off stage... *sob*

Link dittos are fun too, a Dark Link vs Link duel on Kalos' water stage is pretty much Water Temple miniboss :v
 
J

JulianImp

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
What!? Sonic mirrors are the best because it's about throwing patience out of the window! At least for me. I love all of the running around and lighting fast punishes that go on in those mirrors. To me, the more patient player actually loses pretty consistently in that MU.

It's totally like a ZvZ in SCII, and I love it for that. High speed, micro based battles that are totally crazy and are about outsmarting the other player while also having to think super quickly at the same time, because the opponent has the same ability you have to be super reactionary.
Click to expand...

Whenever I think Sonic mirrors, I instantly think of that stream where both Sonic players were stuck in place charging a spin dash for a couple minutes, which prompted the streamers to add a "Gotta go fast" drawing to the image because WTF.

I wonder what Pac-Man mirrors would be like...

Edit: Does anyone want to play for a bit? (it's 20:15 PM GMT, for reference)
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Snacks the sober sea lion said:
I added it. I'll start the room.



Not sure. It's pretty bad.
Click to expand...
Data:

Grabs Hitbox Active FAF
Standing Grab 14-15 29
Dash Grab 9-10 38
Pivot Grab 15-16 37

Compare to Bowser:
Grabs Hitbox Active FAF
Standing Grab 9-10 39
Dash Grab 10-11 48
Pivot Grab 11-12 46

Your dash grab is normal. Just the standing one is a bit slow, and it recovers 10 frames faster than a "grapplers" in exchange for being 5 frames slower. I don't think a complaint is warranted.

Compare to Samus:

Grabs Hitbox Active FAF
Standing Grab 16-25 80
Dash Grab 16-26 74
Pivot Grab 17-28 94

Greninja is nowhere near as bad as a tether recovery.
 
S

Snacks the sober sea lion

Member
Karsticles said:
Data:
Your dash grab is normal. Just the standing one is a bit slow, and it recovers 10 frames faster than a "grapplers" in exchange for being 5 frames slower. I don't think a complaint is warranted.



Greninja is nowhere near as bad as a tether recovery.
Click to expand...

I mean I think I read somewhere that Greninja's grab functions like a tether. It's disjointed or something. And those 5 frames make kind of a big difference when it reduces him to a single out of shield option (jab).

Also how does Roy's get up attack break shield? I've never seen that with any character other than Ganondorf, and my shield was almost full.
 
B

Boney

Banned
Anybody wanna play?

Snacks the sober sea lion said:
I mean I think I read somewhere that Greninja's grab functions like a tether. It's disjointed or something. And those 5 frames make kind of a big difference when it reduces him to a single out of shield option (jab).

Also how does Roy's get up attack break shield? I've never seen that with any character other than Ganondorf, and my shield was almost full.
Click to expand...
Yeah it's a tether, it's a horrible stsnding grab, but a great running grab.

And Roy probably can break shields with the get up due to the center blade mechanics he has going for him.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Snacks the sober sea lion said:
I mean I think I read somewhere that Greninja's grab functions like a tether. It's disjointed or something. And those 5 frames make kind of a big difference when it reduces him to a single out of shield option (jab).

Also how does Roy's get up attack break shield? I've never seen that with any character other than Ganondorf, and my shield was almost full.
Click to expand...

Hmm. I haven't experienced that.

I think Greninja has a slower standing grab because he has solid rolls and two defensive actions: a counter, and a juke. Everyone is different, contextually.
 
O

Oidisco

Member
I've broken shields with getup attack with Marth and Roy before. No idea why it happens, but it does

Only time I was able to land Roy's fully charged neutral-B, felt pretty cool!
 
T

Thulius

Member
Snacks the sober sea lion said:
Also how does Roy's get up attack break shield? I've never seen that with any character other than Ganondorf, and my shield was almost full.
Click to expand...

All wakeup attacks do completely stupid shield damage if you manage to get hit by both sides. It varies, but they all come pretty close to being a shield break from full.

Also re: Greninja's standing grab; it isn't bad relative to other characters, it's bad relative to the rest of his options. In any situation where it's a real punish, you could also punish with Utilt, Dtilt or Fsmash. Two of those have better followups than Uthrow at low damage and all 3 can lead to kills at higher damage.

Offensively, nothing he has in the air forces people to block long enough for it to be a realistic mixup option and it's way too slow for empty jump setups. Theoretically it's a good option out of a walk since it has similar range to Dtilt/Ftilt/Fsmash/jab but that's not really a thing unless someone's just sitting in their shield.

So I don't think it's "bad," there's just no reason to use it in the few situations it's good for. Short of like... power shielding Little Mac's Fsmash with your back to the ledge and Mac below kill %, there aren't many situations where it's ideal.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Last match, Shamrock.

Edit: GGs. It's still really hard to approach your Ness as Sonic. Either I have to actually sit down and watch some MU videos and read guides to figure that out, or I have to take up another character—preferably with projectiles and spacing abilities—for that specific MU.
 
S

Shamrock7r

Member
GGs Flux

FluxWaveZ said:
Last match, Shamrock.

Edit: GGs. It's still really hard to approach your Ness as Sonic. Either I have to actually sit down and watch some MU videos and read guides to figure that out, or I have to take up another character—preferably with projectiles and spacing abilities—for that specific MU.
Click to expand...

Well Sonic is one of Ness's worst matchups. One thing that has really helped me is I have been incorporating his uair more when falling to the ground instead of his nair. Provides more KOs and sometimes moves him out of grab length when the opponent shields. I remember one time getting absolutely wrecked by a Sonic on Anthers. Wish I would have saved the replay to give you. I can't really remember what he did that threw me off so much.

Your Wii Fit Trainer is so beast. I am jealous.
 
L

LonelyGreyWolf

Banned
What's up, guys. Been soooo looooong since I last visited the Smash bros. threads. I purchased the new DLC characters yesterday (except Lucas) and played Smash again with some friends for the first time in what feels like ages. The game is still incredibly fun and I really enjoyed the new characters. Mewtwo was more fun than I thought he would be and both Roy and Ryu are very enjoyable.

What is the general consensus on the DLC characters though?
 
O

Oidisco

Member
I think I broke some poor Roy player. He was pretty good, but I just kept gimping his recovery at super low percents (I was Marth). We played about 15 matches and in all of those he took 1 stock, several he only got 1 hit in and in one he ever got JV3'd. It got to the point where whenever I knocked him offstage, he didn't even try to recover.

I felt a little bad, but I needed it after just coming off of a super frustrating Link match.
 
C

Captain Rage Quit 69

Banned
LonelyGreyWolf said:
What's up, guys. Been soooo looooong since I last visited the Smash bros. threads. I purchased the new DLC characters yesterday (except Lucas) and played Smash again with some friends for the first time in what feels like ages. The game is still incredibly fun and I really enjoyed the new characters. Mewtwo was more fun than I though and both Roy and Ryu are very enjoyable.

What is the general consensus on the DLC characters though?
Click to expand...
Mewtwo is mediocre, Lucas is alright, Ryu is cool but hard to use his fighting game inputs, and Roy is stronk.

I personally can't wait to see how much they buff Wolf.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Shamrock7r said:
Well Sonic is one of Ness's worst matchups. One thing that has really helped me is I have been incorporating his uair more when falling to the ground instead of his nair. Provides more KOs and sometimes moves him out of grab length when the opponent shields. I remember one time getting absolutely wrecked by a Sonic on Anthers. Wish I would have saved the replay to give you. I can't really remember what he did that threw me off so much.

Your Wii Fit Trainer is so beast. I am jealous.
Click to expand...

I find that I need to constantly remind myself not to be under Ness' head when in the air, because I usually get messed up by that move. My movement is so erratic and I'm generally impatient, so I'm finding it real hard to approach either in the air or on the ground the way you play Ness. I need to sit down and think about it properly or watch replays so I can analyze it outside of when I'm playing.

And yeah, I dunno how my WFT got to this point when I'm not just fooling around with her, but welp. Guess I played her a bit too much for kicks; she's my second most played character next to Sonic.
 
B

Boney

Banned
Oh my, can't believe I turned that around

LonelyGreyWolf said:
What's up, guys. Been soooo looooong since I last visited the Smash bros. threads. I purchased the new DLC characters yesterday (except Lucas) and played Smash again with some friends for the first time in what feels like ages. The game is still incredibly fun and I really enjoyed the new characters. Mewtwo was more fun than I though and both Roy and Ryu are very enjoyable.

What is the general consensus on the DLC characters though?
Click to expand...

Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
Mewtwo is mediocre, Lucas is alright, Ryu is cool but hard to use his fighting game inputs, and Roy is stronk.

I personally can't wait to see how much they buff Wolf.
Click to expand...
Pretty much. Everyone except Mewtwo are super good. I can see Ryu really getting a lot better as people understand him better and Roy, god damn is he good.
 
O

Oidisco

Member
The main thing holding Roy back is his terrible recovery. Because of his falling speed it's really hard for him to defend himself off-stage. If he air-dodges, counters or just hits someone away it could easily end up putting him too far away from the ledge.
His up-b is kinda weird too, there's been so many times where I've been sure he'd grab the ledge but just falls to his death, despite his head touching the ledge.

You're clearly in arms length of the thing, just grab it!
 
L

LonelyGreyWolf

Banned
Interesting, so Roy is pretty popular then, I take it. Roy is definitely my favourite of the DLC characters (not that that says a lot since there are only four of them ;b), but I did have a few issues with the up-b indeed and, maybe I was just imagining from not having played for so long, but his range felt shorter than Marths, Lucinas and Ikes range.
 
Spirit Icana

Spirit Icana

Member
Wooo! Great games! Put me in my place. My Rosy got beat by an Ike!

Great playing, Bones. Hope to play you again, sometime.

Thanks! No offense intended but I didn't thought you'd be this good as you're not a regular here, was totally off mark, you're playing great!
Click to expand...

That sounds like a compliment to me. I'll continue to up my game, too. :)
 
O

Oidisco

Member
LonelyGreyWolf said:
Interesting, so Roy is pretty popular then, I take it. Roy is definitely my favourite of the DLC characters (not that that says a lot since there are only four of them ;b), but I did have a few issues with the up-b indeed and, maybe I was just imagining from not having played for so long, but his range felt shorter than Marths, Lucinas and Ikes range.
Click to expand...

His sword is shorter, but that's because he's designed to be basically the opposite of Marth in terms of where his power comes from. Marth is all about hitting with the tip of the sword where as Roy is about getting up close and hitting with the hilt of the sword. Their throws reflect this too (kinda). Roy's send opponents super short distances at low and mid-percents, so that he can easily hit with the strongest part of the sword.
I'm guessing with Marth they made it so his throws send them further so he can with the tip, but that clearly doesn't work since opponents get sent too far and with not enough hitstun for that to actually work.

And as for his up-b, it's a really good move when used on stage, particularly out of shield or a down-throw. If only it had a little armour on start-up when used in the air as well.
 
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