Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U DLC |OT2| Lucas comes out of Nowhere!

I don't know, it's not working.

Lucas has lots of stuff and he's alright, but he definitely has frustrating flaws.

Greninja I don't even know where to start. Have not improved with him at all, incredibly difficult to land KO's, terrible defense, his shuriken isn't working for me. I just don't really want to play anybody, really. I'm not feeling this game. Haven't improved as anyone and don't see how to. All I do is push buttons and see what happens. Being aggressive doesn't work, being patient doesn't work. All useless.
 
Spirit Icana said:
Phew, great games, man! I kept messing up those stage techs. lol

Your Sonic and Wii Fit Trainer was great! Hope to play you again soon. :)
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Thanks. I think it was my first time playing against a good Roy; I wasn't aware his forward Smash was so absurdly powerful. He has a longer recovery to make up for it, I suppose, but that thing packs a surprising amount of punch. Seems he recovers really quickly from his neutral B, so he can perform a standard attack quickly afterwards, which I had to be aware of.
 
FluxWaveZ said:
Thanks. I think it was my first time playing against a good Roy; I wasn't aware his forward Smash was so absurdly powerful. He has a longer recovery to make up for it, I suppose, but that thing packs a surprising amount of punch. Seems he recovers really quickly from his neutral B, so he can perform a standard attack quickly afterwards, which I had to be aware of.
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Yeah, I tried using that as bait several times, but I don't recall you falling for it. Good playing!
 
Snacks the sober sea lion said:
I don't know, it's not working.

Lucas has lots of stuff and he's alright, but he definitely has frustrating flaws.

Greninja I don't even know where to start. Have not improved with him at all, incredibly difficult to land KO's, terrible defense, his shuriken isn't working for me. I just don't really want to play anybody, really. I'm not feeling this game. Haven't improved as anyone and don't see how to.
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Your knowledge of the characters you use are pretty spot on, particularly Greninja and Lucas. Because of that, and your losing, it's causing understandable frustration. Take a step back then and try to determine where you are going wrong. Perhaps it is not the character flaws?

You are at a point where what you need to improve is your knowledge of your opponent, and of the situation, which can change at a moment's notice. Your offensive and defensive moves and combinations that you have learned are good, but I find that you are struggling at adapting when the situation doesn't allow for you to use those options.

Let me give you an example of how I view a matchup when I am using Ness, because I know Ness backwards and forwards, but I feel like it's my ability to size up and read my opponent that is the biggest factor to me winning a match.

A typical approach option for Ness is to short hop fair or short hop nair. A typical defensive option that can lead to offense is to pivot pkfire.

Scenario: Shamrock vs FluxWaveZ's Sonic. Short hop fair and short hop nair upon approach is essentially worthless, as is pivot pk fire, because I understand Flux is very quick on reaction. He knows exactly when I will have end lag and use that moment to approach with Sonic's spins. How do I counter this? I have to change my approach. One option I do is run forward and quickly shield as I near Sonic in an attempt to bait him to use his spin. This will hopefully put him in a position for me to counter with an attack after he misses with spin and goes for another follow up. Another option is to fully jump using fair. It is safe, get's me near Sonic, and makes Flux have to think about how he is going to use his spin. Based on what Flux does, I will remember his movements and counter accordingly the next time the scenario presents itself.

Sometimes I will do the same thing a few times to condition my opponent to react a certain way. I will then re-create the scenario, they will expect me to do what I have shown them, and I will do something completely different to throw them off and catch them, getting some hits or a KO in.

These are the things you now need to work on. It's the hardest part area to develop no doubt, but you can do it. Don't lose heart. My suggestion is, as you play someone, no matter the level of the opponent, try to memorize mannerisms and movements that they are doing. Often times the opponent does not even know they have these habits. Once you are able to predict what they are going to do, even if you can't immediately offer a punish, you will start to feel good and develop.
 
Shamrock7r said:
Your knowledge of the characters you use are pretty spot on, particularly Greninja and Lucas. Because of that, and your losing, it's causing understandable frustration. Take a step back then and try to determine where you are going wrong. Perhaps it is not the character flaws?

You are at a point where what you need to improve is your knowledge of your opponent, and of the situation, which can change at a moment's notice. Your offensive and defensive moves and combinations that you have learned are good, but I find that you are struggling at adapting when the situation doesn't allow for you to use those options.

Let me give you an example of how I view a matchup when I am using Ness, because I know Ness backwards and forwards, but I feel like it's my ability to size up and read my opponent that is the biggest factor to me winning a match.

A typical approach option for Ness is to short hop fair or short hop nair. A typical defensive option that can lead to offense is to pivot pkfire.

Scenario: Shamrock vs FluxWaveZ's Sonic. Short hop fair and short hop nair upon approach is essentially worthless, as is pivot pk fire, because I understand Flux is very quick on reaction. He knows exactly when I will have end lag and use that moment to approach with Sonic's spins. How do I counter this? I have to change my approach. One option I do is run forward and quickly shield as I near Sonic in an attempt to bait him to use his spin. This will hopefully put him in a position for me to counter with an attack after he misses with spin and goes for another follow up. Another option is to fully jump using fair. It is safe, get's me near Sonic, and makes Flux have to think about how he is going to use his spin. Based on what Flux does, I will remember his movements and counter accordingly the next time the scenario presents itself.

Sometimes I will do the same thing a few times to condition my opponent to react a certain way. I will then re-create the scenario, they will expect me to do what I have shown them, and I will do something completely different to throw them off and catch them, getting some hits or a KO in.

These are the things you now need to work on. It's the hardest part area to develop no doubt, but you can do it. Don't lose heart. My suggestion is, as you play someone, no matter the level of the opponent, try to memorize mannerisms and movements that they are doing. Often times the opponent does not even know they have these habits. Once you are able to predict what they are going to do, even if you can't immediately offer a punish, you will start to feel good and develop.
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Okay. Too tired to say anything else or play anyone, but thanks for writing something out.
 
Snacks the sober sea lion said:
The ports were cheap at the Steam sale, but I didn't know enough about playerbase or netcode and I'm never going to be good at King of Fighters anyway.
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I was never good at any KoF and is still my favorite fighter! You should try it out. Don't know if 2002UM's net code is good, but game is pretty fun.

Also I know For Glory is not exactly populated with the most skilled players, but its even worse on the 3ds version. For glory teams is full of people that just spam the same move over and over and hope it hits. On 1vs1 There was this Kirby player that tried to suck me and carry me to the bottom while I was at 0%. They just got spyked lol.
 
Played a couple hours as Sheik tonight. It's... a surreal experience. I switched back and forth between Sheik and Bowser to see how my wins/losses between the two were against the same opponents. I'm obviously a better Bowser than Sheik, but it's surprising that the results difference is already pretty small. Like Zero says, Sheik wins the neutral by pressing B. The other character has to approach me, and will keep a hair trigger on their shield because of the threat of needles. It's just crazy how quick/responsive the character is. When I committed to learning Bowser I would try to time my air-dodges to the exact moment I'd get hit - and then I'd get hit cause Bowser's a slowass. If it makes any sense, playing Bowser is like playing in the past, I throw out a move expecting events to occur that will result in a hit. While with Sheik I throw out a move at the precise moment I want to hit. So I'm playing in the present rather than the past. It's like playing a different game. There's nothing flashy, I regularly bring my opponents to 150%+ before killing them, I'm doing the work. My Sheik is completely unoptimized, of course. I usually only get a single hit off a grab. But it all feels so effortless.

Anyway, that's my experience for the moment. I'm still not sure if I really have the dexterity to play the character at a high level. Having my trigger set to jump works for Bowser, but Sheik has such a small jump window it's really difficult to short hop that way. I'm thinking about how I can manage the short hop fair fastfall chains, to achieve that I might have to go back to an official GC controller, even switch to a claw style with my right hand... I don't know.
 
Cronox said:
Played a couple hours as Sheik tonight. It's... a surreal experience. I switched back and forth between Sheik and Bowser to see how my wins/losses between the two were against the same opponents. I'm obviously a better Bowser than Sheik, but it's surprising that the results difference is already pretty small. Like Zero says, Sheik wins the neutral by pressing B. The other character has to approach me, and will keep a hair trigger on their shield because of the threat of needles. It's just crazy how quick/responsive the character is. When I committed to learning Bowser I would try to time my air-dodges to the exact moment I'd get hit - and then I'd get hit cause Bowser's a slowass. If it makes any sense, playing Bowser is like playing in the past, I throw out a move expecting events to occur that will result in a hit. While with Sheik I throw out a move at the precise moment I want to hit. So I'm playing in the present rather than the past. It's like playing a different game. There's nothing flashy, I regularly bring my opponents to 150%+ before killing them, I'm doing the work. My Sheik is completely unoptimized, of course. I usually only get a single hit off a grab. But it all feels so effortless.

Anyway, that's my experience for the moment. I'm still not sure if I really have the dexterity to play the character at a high level. Having my trigger set to jump works for Bowser, but Sheik has such a small jump window it's really difficult to short hop that way. I'm thinking about how I can manage the short hop fair fastfall chains, to achieve that I might have to go back to an official GC controller, even switch to a claw style with my right hand... I don't know.
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Poor guy. :-(

Don't forget to jump cancel your shield into Nair as a Fortress substitute!

I understand where you are coming from with the fast fall stuff. I've thought about having a finger on Z for jumping so I can C-stick all the time.
 
Anyone from from bracket 2 will be around later today or in the weekend? I need to start getting those matches in and I'll be on holiday starting on 20/07.
 
Snacks the sober sea lion said:
I don't know, it's not working.

Lucas has lots of stuff and he's alright, but he definitely has frustrating flaws.

Greninja I don't even know where to start. Have not improved with him at all, incredibly difficult to land KO's, terrible defense, his shuriken isn't working for me. I just don't really want to play anybody, really. I'm not feeling this game. Haven't improved as anyone and don't see how to. All I do is push buttons and see what happens. Being aggressive doesn't work, being patient doesn't work. All useless.
Click to expand...
Don't lose your drive! Sometimed it'll help to step back from the game or try exploring other characters to help build knowledge on the game. I feel you get discouraged too easily with this game and try to headstrong an approach when it's not gonna cut it. I've seen you do some wonderful stuff with Greninja, where I feel completely helpless to just trying to follow you around.

Keep on truckin'!
 
R.D.Blax said:
I still hate Wario, and I will probably hate him forever
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wario_troll_face__oh_ya_by_cheddinator-d4ip649.jpg
 
I haven't played this for a bit and thought I might as well jump back in with the DLC characters. Picked up Ryu for the moment and I'll give the others a shot later.

I'm still struggling to get comfortable with this game. Movement just feels really off. It isn't a big deal on lower difficulties but once the CPU starts dashing properly and using throws I can't seem to do any damage at that point. It's not for the lack of trying, having to actually turn around on the ground is driving me crazy too. I'm pretty sure I played Melee fine. I don't know what the heck is going on.
 
toastyToast said:
I haven't played this for a bit and thought I might as well jump back in with the DLC characters. Picked up Ryu for the moment and I'll give the others a shot later.

I'm still struggling to get comfortable with this game. Movement just feels really off. It isn't a big deal on lower difficulties but once the CPU starts dashing properly and using throws I can't seem to do any damage at that point. It's not for the lack of trying, having to actually turn around on the ground is driving me crazy too. I'm pretty sure I played Melee fine. I don't know what the heck is going on.
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Play folks here, not the CPU.
 
toastyToast said:
I haven't played this for a bit and thought I might as well jump back in with the DLC characters. Picked up Ryu for the moment and I'll give the others a shot later.

I'm still struggling to get comfortable with this game. Movement just feels really off. It isn't a big deal on lower difficulties but once the CPU starts dashing properly and using throws I can't seem to do any damage at that point. It's not for the lack of trying, having to actually turn around on the ground is driving me crazy too. I'm pretty sure I played Melee fine. I don't know what the heck is going on.
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Does movement feel off in general, or are you only playing Ryu? Because Ryu has really stiff movement. He has very little control in the air.
 
toastyToast said:
I haven't played this for a bit and thought I might as well jump back in with the DLC characters. Picked up Ryu for the moment and I'll give the others a shot later.

I'm still struggling to get comfortable with this game. Movement just feels really off. It isn't a big deal on lower difficulties but once the CPU starts dashing properly and using throws I can't seem to do any damage at that point. It's not for the lack of trying, having to actually turn around on the ground is driving me crazy too. I'm pretty sure I played Melee fine. I don't know what the heck is going on.
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Not entirely sure if this is what you're talking about, but you generally can't turn around or dash back the other way if you've already committed to dashing one way. For most characters you have to go through the initial dash animation, stop for a moment and then you can act. The window to turn around is incredibly small and is pretty much only at the very beginning.

If the last game you played was Melee it may feel awkward to adjust to because the window for dashing the other way during a dash is pretty big in that game.
 
Snacks the sober sea lion said:
Does movement feel off in general, or are you only playing Ryu? Because Ryu has really stiff movement. He has very little control in the air.
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I was mostly using Ike and Robin before but it's something I've felt in general

Beats said:
If the last game you played was Melee it may feel awkward to adjust to because the window for dashing the other way during a dash is pretty big in that game.
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Oh fair enough. Think I just need to play more. The game feels like it has more inertia to it. The last time I played Melee was a good 5 years or so ago so it might just be ordinary rustiness.

Karsticles said:
Play folks here, not the CPU.
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Not ready yet lol
 
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