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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U DLC |OT2| Lucas comes out of Nowhere!

C

Crayolan

Member
Karsticles said:
Jigg mains:
This character is seriously fun. I have only gotten two rests off because it scares the crap out of me. Right now, my biggest issue is that when I get a hit in at low %,, I get punished. What can I do to avoid this?


How is Washington? My wife wants to move there.
Click to expand...

It depends on the character, but when you get in a hit at low % you can either move back out of their range without ever leaving the air or continue moving forward and combo into more hits until they're hit far enough away from you. There aren't really any set combos for puff but something I get off often at low %'s is fair>fair>nair>pound.

Also ideal rest opportunities:
-Spot dodge an obvious run attack/dash grab
-Following attacks with a ton of lag
-You read someone rolling onto stage from the ledge
-Someone rolls on top of you or you run onto the spot where you predict your opponent is rolling to.

Learn your rests kill %s though, they can vary from mid 30s (puff) to low 70s (dedede)
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Crayolan said:
It depends on the character, but when you get in a hit at low % you can either move back out of their range without ever leaving the air or continue moving forward and combo into more hits until they're hit far enough away from you. There aren't really any set combos for puff but something I get off often at low %'s is fair>fair>nair>pound.

Also ideal rest opportunities:
-Spot dodge an obvious run attack/dash grab
-Following attacks with a ton of lag
-You read someone rolling onto stage from the ledge
-Someone rolls on top of you or you run onto the spot where you predict your opponent is rolling to.

Learn your rests kill %s though, they can vary from mid 30s (puff) to low 70s (dedede)
Click to expand...
Thanks!

My only issues with him so far are that:
Dair seems to be punishable on hit.
He doesn't ledge grab well. :/
 
S

SolarKnight

Member
So after some matches today at my locals I think I came to two conclusions: the online lag definitely affects my Fox the most, but my Marth might be fundamentally better now anyways.

Also offline 2v2 is even more fun lol

Professor Beef said:
Default Palu automatically makes the Villager matchup an exercise in frustration thanks to her Reflect. If they're actually intelligent with using it, then RIP in peace.

As for Martha, it's slightly different than fighting Marth. With him you have to watch your distance because if your spacing is off then you eat a tipper. Martha doesn't have tippers but that also means she doesn't have to watch her distance when attacking, so she can go all-in. You fight both of them mostly the same way, though. Properly-spaced slingshots, and making them take to the air by bombarding them with Lloyds and punishing their attempts to get around them. Neither of them have a direct answer to any of Chillager's attacks aside from bulldog attempts. And if they mess that up, then they're done for.
Click to expand...

Thank you
 
C

Crayolan

Member
Karsticles said:
Thanks!

My only issues with him so far are that:
Dair seems to be punishable on hit.
He doesn't ledge grab well. :/
Click to expand...

You can move while using dair. It's only punishable if you don't finish the combo or if you finish it still moving towards the opponent. If you end the combo moving away you should be fine.

Not sure what your problem is with the ledge. Are you trying to go straight for the ledge every time? Puff falls slow so you need to use your air movement to go around opponents when off stage. Usually you can stay far off the stage until you're level with the ledge and then approach from below. Also you may not know that sing actually does give you a very small vertical boost if you use it before the you hit the top of the arc of your jump. Sometimes that little extra is needed to get to the ledge.
 
S

SolarKnight

Member
Our local ended up organizing a doubles tournament since the singles one ended early and my team ended up 2-3 with a Yoshi/Marth team. I think that was probably losers quarters? The best part for me was that I definitely wasn't being carried and I managed to pull my own weight by tippering foes (and friend once or twice >.>) to their deaths. Overall it was a lot of fun and actual communication definitely made it better than our online doubles matches lol
 
J

JulianImp

Member
SolarKnight said:
Our local ended up organizing a doubles tournament since the singles one ended early and my team ended up 2-3 with a Yoshi/Marth team. I think that was probably losers quarters? The best part for me was that I definitely wasn't being carried and I managed to pull my own weight by tippering foes (and friend once or twice >.>) to their deaths. Overall it was a lot of fun and actual communication definitely made it better than our online doubles matches lol
Click to expand...

I agree that local multiplayer is so much more entertaining that online. While it might put connection stability at risk, I guess we could try some kind of voice chat during 2v2s sometime (I remember having used TeamSpeak a long time ago, but I wonder if that still works nowadays).
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Crayolan said:
You can move while using dair. It's only punishable if you don't finish the combo or if you finish it still moving towards the opponent. If you end the combo moving away you should be fine.

Not sure what your problem is with the ledge. Are you trying to go straight for the ledge every time? Puff falls slow so you need to use your air movement to go around opponents when off stage. Usually you can stay far off the stage until you're level with the ledge and then approach from below. Also you may not know that sing actually does give you a very small vertical boost if you use it before the you hit the top of the arc of your jump. Sometimes that little extra is needed to get to the ledge.
Click to expand...
I will work on the Dair more.

I go to the ledge, but Jiggs has to jump up a bit first, and then come down, to latch. She has this moment of vulnerability.
 
A

AnkiRendan

Member
Oidisco said:
I felt like that while playing Roy and in my last few ZSS matches, so i switched to my Zelda for a couple games.
And I love the Marth ditto, so playing against Lucina is close enough to that so I switched to Marth. I noticed you were air-dodging to the ground a lot so I took advantage of that while using him.

By the way, your Toon Link has gotten much better since we last played!
Click to expand...

I'm soooo late replying to this since my Internet was acting funny for a while...

Dittos are extremely difficult for me! Actually, in general using Lucina is quite difficult against you since you're an amazing Marth. It doesn't feel like anything I can do would really surprise you so it's definitely a difficult mental block to get past. And thanks for the compliment on my Toon Link. It's really funny you say that because your defensive playstyle is actually extremely difficult for Toon Link to do well against.

But honestly, in general I really do like playing you. I don't feel like I've closed the gap at all, but I can definitely see where I go wrong and I need to aggressively work on fixing my bad habits.
 
C

Cronox

Banned
Karsticles said:
I go to the ledge, but Jiggs has to jump up a bit first, and then come down, to latch. She has this moment of vulnerability.
Click to expand...

I guarantee you don't need to get above the ledge to grab. You can actually sweetspot it at very safe distances because of Jiggs' air control. When I'm coming from below, I notice that she doesn't seem to sweetspot during the air-jump animation, but right after. Since you have complete air control, do that jump ahead of time so you sweetspot safely when the animation finishes and you go back to slowly falling. It's... easier to show than explain with words. You'll figure it out soon regardless, I imagine.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Cronox said:
I guarantee you don't need to get above the ledge to grab. You can actually sweetspot it at very safe distances because of Jiggs' air control. When I'm coming from below, I notice that she doesn't seem to sweetspot during the air-jump animation, but right after. Since you have complete air control, do that jump ahead of time so you sweetspot safely when the animation finishes and you go back to slowly falling. It's... easier to show than explain with words. You'll figure it out soon regardless, I imagine.
Click to expand...
That makes sense I will do that

Oh yeah, total weirdness. A LOT of people, after losing to Jiggs, swapped to Bowser. Really bad Bowser, too. Like, Fsmashing in anticipation of Jiggs attacking. All over the place. I don't get it. I don't count Bowser as one of her bad Matchups.
 
C

Crayolan

Member
Karsticles said:
That makes sense I will do that

Oh yeah, total weirdness. A LOT of people, after losing to Jiggs, swapped to Bowser. Really bad Bowser, too. Like, Fsmashing in anticipation of Jiggs attacking. All over the place. I don't get it. I don't count Bowser as one of her bad Matchups.
Click to expand...

People assume heavy characters are counters to light characters like puff. In reality, it's opposite. Bowser matchup is in puff's favor IMO.
 
C

Captain Rage Quit 69

Banned
See, you failed the whole roster challenge at Mario, but I'm curious to see how many L's I take.


Eww, that lag though. It's 2 am over here, who could possibly be hogging the bandwidth? D:
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
Host, host! :D

Edit: Sheik still has the stupid side-B helplessness from Zelda that serves no purpose, I see.
Click to expand...
You don't see a problem with letting Sheik throw a grenade at the ledge to cover her recovery? :p

Side note: it turns out that you can pick up the grenade she throws. It won't detonate if you throw it, though.
 
C

Cronox

Banned
Crayolan said:
People assume heavy characters are counters to light characters like puff. In reality, it's opposite. Bowser matchup is in puff's favor IMO.
Click to expand...

Ha the reality is just that a patient player who isn't afraid of puff will counter puff. A lot of for glory players want to run away cause they get overwhelmed by the continuous assault. Through their fear they don't see that their character can often beat or take aerial trades with Jiggs that are almost always in their favor. I played a Captain Falcon while I was in Belgium with Jiggs and absolutely wrecked him cause he didn't know what to do. Between matches I told him not to be afraid, and that Falcon's uair will beat Jiggs in the air. Lo and behold, the next match was really hard, and after that I was losing pretty badly.

The joy if Jiggs is wrecking people who don't know the matchup. Unfortunately, once they do you'd better have a great sense for landing rest, cause that's the only way you'll be able to even the odds. I love playing her still, but that's my experience.

Edit: Karst, here's some old (but almost certainly still valid since I believe the move has never been changed via patch) data on rest KO's: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2m1wgj/jigglypuff_rest_ko_percentages/
 
N

NamikazeBurst

Member
GGs. I can't handle a wait that long, twice. Lag was also a (major) contributor. I also clearly wasn't doing smart stuff, like losing as DK, or that G&W match.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Cronox said:
Ha the reality is just that a patient player who isn't afraid of puff will counter puff. A lot of for glory players want to run away cause they get overwhelmed by the continuous assault. Through their fear they don't see that their character can often beat or take aerial trades with Jiggs that are almost always in their favor. I played a Captain Falcon while I was in Belgium with Jiggs and absolutely wrecked him cause he didn't know what to do. Between matches I told him not to be afraid, and that Falcon's uair will beat Jiggs in the air. Lo and behold, the next match was really hard, and after that I was losing pretty badly.

The joy if Jiggs is wrecking people who don't know the matchup. Unfortunately, once they do you'd better have a great sense for landing rest, cause that's the only way you'll be able to even the odds. I love playing her still, but that's my experience.

Edit: Karst, here's some old (but almost certainly still valid since I believe the move has never been changed via patch) data on rest KO's: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2m1wgj/jigglypuff_rest_ko_percentages/
Click to expand...
Hmm, you think so? I feel like Jiggs has great defensive ability. Nair OoS is really strong. I actually think it is weird that I never see Mario or Luigi players use it offensively.
 
C

Crayolan

Member
Cronox said:
Ha the reality is just that a patient player who isn't afraid of puff will counter puff. A lot of for glory players want to run away cause they get overwhelmed by the continuous assault. Through their fear they don't see that their character can often beat or take aerial trades with Jiggs that are almost always in their favor. I played a Captain Falcon while I was in Belgium with Jiggs and absolutely wrecked him cause he didn't know what to do. Between matches I told him not to be afraid, and that Falcon's uair will beat Jiggs in the air. Lo and behold, the next match was really hard, and after that I was losing pretty badly.

The joy if Jiggs is wrecking people who don't know the matchup. Unfortunately, once they do you'd better have a great sense for landing rest, cause that's the only way you'll be able to even the odds. I love playing her still, but that's my experience.

Edit: Karst, here's some old (but almost certainly still valid since I believe the move has never been changed via patch) data on rest KO's: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2m1wgj/jigglypuff_rest_ko_percentages/
Click to expand...

Well when I say heavy characters I really mean big characters, mostly because they're easy to combo and easy to land rests on. That might not be a puff specific thing but I feel like I tend to have an easier time against them.
 
C

Captain Rage Quit 69

Banned
Not surprised you quit on me, the waits were unexpected to me too. Sorry about that, I had to deal with a drunken parent and listen to 70s music for a bit. >.<;;;

GGs Namikaze, again please pardon my absences, I never planned for them but today was a day of unexpected occurrences for me. I also hope the lag didn't bother you too much, I don't know what happened there because I'm the only one online atm.

I look forward to playing again under better circumstances, and for the third time I apologize for our session.
 
C

Captain Rage Quit 69

Banned
The bigger giveaway was that Monday isn't the 14th but the 13th in North America.

No worries, it happens to the best of us. I just wonder how an old post grabbed your attention like this. :O
 
Crownjo

Crownjo

Member
Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
The bigger giveaway was that Monday isn't the 14th but the 13th in North America.

No worries, it happens to the best of us. I just wonder how an old post grabbed your attention like this. :O
Click to expand...

I was browsing around facebook and it appeared on my news wall. So it's facebook's fault!

It was a Pump It Up tournament. So that explains why I didn't pay attention well. :p
 
C

Cronox

Banned
Karsticles said:
Hmm, you think so? I feel like Jiggs has great defensive ability. Nair OoS is really strong. I actually think it is weird that I never see Mario or Luigi players use it offensively.
Click to expand...

I think you might be a bit in love with the OOS nair after all you time with Mewtwo. I imagine we don't see it used as much by higher tier characters because they have a number of pretty quick options (up b OOS for Mario/Luigi, OOS up smash etc), and nair won't often give them followups.

Crayolan said:
Well when I say heavy characters I really mean big characters, mostly because they're easy to combo and easy to land rests on. That might not be a puff specific thing but I feel like I tend to have an easier time against them.
Click to expand...

I agree with all that, everyone has an easier time with larger characters really. I was just using your post as a launching-off point.
 
B

Boney

Banned
Karsticles said:
That makes sense I will do that

Oh yeah, total weirdness. A LOT of people, after losing to Jiggs, swapped to Bowser. Really bad Bowser, too. Like, Fsmashing in anticipation of Jiggs attacking. All over the place. I don't get it. I don't count Bowser as one of her bad Matchups.
Click to expand...
Why are you focusing so much on for glory instead of fighting us? Pretty sure we have better secondaries that 99% of for glory mains
 
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