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[JulianImp]

Don't mean any disrespect by doing 1 or 2 falcon punches in a game. Just part of my falcon and I would do stuff like that against most anyone I play falcon with if I feel like it out of habit since I just like to do ridiculous stuff off stage.

Oh, okay. You really shouldn't, though, since Falcon Punches should never hit.

Really good games. I felt like I was constantly behind you, but none of the matches felt completely unwinnable. The crazy fruits helped me a ton, mostly thanks to their fan-like property that knocks you backwards and into possible follow-ups.

Your RosaLuma was terrifying and your other characters were nothing to laugh at. All in all, I'm really happy that I managed to correct some of my overly predictable approaches as they got punished, and that I learned to adapt to Rosalina's moves a little bit (even though I kept getting nabbed by your joint smash attacks).

 

[Fandangox]

Oh, okay. You really shouldn't, though, since Falcon Punches should never hit.

...What

Falcon Punch is a legit hard read move.

 

[JulianImp]

...What

Falcon Punch is a legit hard read move.

Really? The awful start-up and the inability to attack early like with smash attacks makes me think it'd often be better to smash than to falcon punch, but then again I don't play the captain enough. The only occasion where I'd see it working is if you reverse it, since you can move freely while the attack charges.

 

[Nabster92]

Oh, okay. You really shouldn't, though, since Falcon Punches should never hit.

Really good games. I felt like I was constantly behind you, but none of the matches felt completely unwinnable. The crazy fruits helped me a ton, mostly thanks to their fan-like property that knocks you backwards and into possible follow-ups.

Your RosaLuma was terrifying and your other characters were nothing to laugh at. All in all, I'm really happy that I managed to correct some of my overly predictable approaches as they got punished, and that I learned to adapt to Rosalina's moves a little bit (even though I kept getting nabbed by your joint smash attacks).

GG's Julian, yea sorry about the Falcon punch attempts if you felt they meant anything else. The hydrant being out was just too enticing to get some sliding punch action going on. I don't usually really think about risk and safety with things that much when I play and just kinda go with instinct and seeing what connects and try to change things up slightly until they do.

Anyways, I'm not that great at pointing specific habits and such out, but I definitely noticed you ledge drop attacking way more than you should be. That's a recipe for getting spiked or f-smash'd off without a jump. Not as terrible a thing for Pac Man with his recovery I suppose, but still not a good position to be in.

Another thing that was kind of throwing me off a bit was how reluctant you seem to be with air dodging. I'm so used to being able to bait out air dodges out of people, but I feel like I rarely ever saw you air dodge at all. It kinda worked sometimes because I wasn't really expecting it, but I think you also took a lot of avoidable hits because of it as well.

Edit:

Really? The awful start-up and the inability to attack early like with smash attacks makes me think it'd often be better to smash than to falcon punch, but then again I don't play the captain enough. The only occasion where I'd see it working is if you reverse it, since you can move freely while the attack charges.

I always reversed it whenever I did it. It works sometimes just trying to bait out stuff like reversing it but landing facing the other direction if you think they'll try to roll to avoid it. Kinda like walking up to someone in shield near the ledge and starting to charge an f-smash in the opposite direction to catch them if they panic roll in.

Definitely not like a safe move to approach with or anything, but if you have a pretty solid lead, doesn't hurt to try to go for something intimidating that will have the added effect of destroying morale if it connects.

 

[Fandangox]

Really? The awful start-up and the inability to attack early like with smash attacks makes me think it'd often be better to smash than to falcon punch, but then again I don't play the captain enough. The only occasion where I'd see it working is if you reverse it, since you can move freely while the attack charges.

Nah sometimes you want that delayed start up on the cold read, I will go through my 3ds replays and see if I had any with them, had a lot of those on the Wii U version, but patches :c

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

Really? The awful start-up and the inability to attack early like with smash attacks makes me think it'd often be better to smash than to falcon punch, but then again I don't play the captain enough. The only occasion where I'd see it working is if you reverse it, since you can move freely while the attack charges.

Smash attack can't be started up or used in the air, and he can reverse momentum with Falcon Punch too.

 

[Fandangox]

Can we ban Sonic yet

 

[JulianImp]

GG's Julian, yea sorry about the Falcon punch attempts if you felt they meant anything else. The hydrant being out was just too enticing to get some sliding punch action going on. I don't usually really think about risk and safety with things that much when I play and just kinda go with instinct and seeing what connects and try to change things up slightly until they do.

Anyways, I'm not that great at pointing specific habits and such out, but I definitely noticed you ledge drop attacking way more than you should be. That's a recipe for getting spiked or f-smash'd off without a jump. Not as terrible a thing for Pac Man with his recovery I suppose, but still not a good position to be in.

Another thing that was kind of throwing me off a bit was how reluctant you seem to be with air dodging. I'm so used to being able to bait out air dodges out of people, but I feel like I rarely ever saw you air dodge at all. It kinda worked sometimes because I wasn't really expecting it, but I think you also took a lot of avoidable hits because of it as well.

Edit:


I always reversed it whenever I did it. It works sometimes just trying to bait out stuff like reversing it but landing facing the other direction if you think they'll try to roll to avoid it. Kinda like walking up to someone in shield near the ledge and starting to charge an f-smash in the opposite direction to catch them if they panic roll in.

Definitely not like a safe move to approach with or anything, but if you have a pretty solid lead, doesn't hurt to try to go for something intimidating that will have the added effect of destroying morale if it connects.

Don't worry! Those falcon punches would've certainly killed my morale if any of them hit, and I never managed to get any good punishes out of them because I find that move kind of scary. I guess I should have more confidence and try some fsmashes or a decent punish if I know I can get away with it, though.

It's certainly true that I ledge-drop a lot, so I guess I'd better mix things up a bit more. It always feels like drop into fair into nair is too tempting to pass up, though, and Pac's other get-up options don't tend to help him nearly as much as fair set-ups. Still, it's true that I'm just asking for a punish if all I ever do is ledge drop into aerials.

Regarding air dodging, it might be because I'm practically a no-guard player. While I know shielding's a vital part of the game, I instinctively play by merely trying to space myself well rather than shielding or dodging. Catching you off-guard with my unortodox playstle might've worked at first, but if it's something so obvious then I guess I must step my defensive game up sooner or later, because if I'm that easy to read then that means my opponents can adapt to my playstyle and punish it accordingly. It might also be that Pac's aerial maneuverability is good enough that I often prefer to drift away from most approaches rather than air dodge into them, since it isn't like Pac-Man has any good aerials to punish post-dodge other than a point-blank nair.

Thanks a lot for the detailed write-up! I'll see if I can work on some of these things so I can eventually step my game up a notch or two.

 

[Anonymous Tipster]

Anyone up to play?

Feeling hydrated at least now

 

[Spirit Icana]

Anyone up to play?

Feeling hydrated at least now

I can play. If you're still around

 

[Anonymous Tipster]

I can play. If you're still around

Definitely! I'll make a room


Edit: it is up.

 

[Karsticles]

I am glad I have never gotten hit by a Falcon Punch. >.>

That must be why Yoshi wasn't there.

Not.

Yoshi wasn't there because he gets beat by a lot of the other high tier characters, and good luck in the Sheik match-up. Yoshi wasn't even in top 32, never mind 16.

Yoshi wasn't there because the participants all respect themselves too much to use him. Even the campy Villager and Sonic mains said they would die from shame. I asked each one individually.

Speaking of Yoshi, what happened to that great Yoshi in pools that eliminated that one Falcon player.

Committed sudoku after realizing he dishonored himself by picking Yoshi.

Mii Swordfighter fsmash 0.0

Crescent slash -.-

Hey, where the hell was Trela?

Still around Phantom? I'm on my way home and really tired but totally up to play our Ranbats if you are.

Speaking of, did TWILT drop? I hope he's not banned next time if he did..

Twilt and DQ dropped. This summer has been rough for participation. Maybe next year I will put it on hiatus. I don't plan on holding it against people. Bad scheduling conflicts.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

I am glad I have never gotten hit by a Falcon Punch. >.>


Yoshi wasn't there because the participants all respect themselves too much to use him. Even the campy Villager and Sonic mains said they would die from shame. I asked each one individually.


Committed sudoku after realizing he dishonored himself by picking Yoshi.


Hey, where the hell was Trela?


Twilt and DQ dropped. This summer has been rough for participation. Maybe next year I will put it on hiatus. I don't plan on holding it against people. Bad scheduling conflicts.

I find your anger against Yoshi funny, not in a "how pathetic" way but in a "this guy dislikes fighting Yoshi so much he'd rather switch mains to custom Villager and play Static Manny in tournament god damn" way.

Also, maybe make the summer vacation its own season, given recently it's become the Summer of Smash. Gives everyone time to play, and the early birds will play all their matches in two weeks even if you gave them a year to play.

 

[Karsticles]

I find your anger against Yoshi funny, not in a "how pathetic" way but in a "this guy dislikes fighting Yoshi so much he'd rather switch mains to custom Villager and play Static Manny in tournament god damn" way.

Also, maybe make the summer vacation its own season, given recently it's become the Summer of Smash. Gives everyone time to play, and the early birds will play all their matches in two weeks even if you gave them a year to play.

This season did start when summer did, though.

I just don't appreciate a dinosaur that thinks it should coexist with man. They went extinct for a reason.

 

[Tusk]

Hey, was wondering if someone could help.

Was wanting to go on the Eshop to download Ryu and Roy, but for some reason I keep getting an error numbered 102-2815. All it says is I can't connect to the Eshop, everything else works fine though. Felt asking here would be better than making a thread.

 

[Cronox]

ESAM got a Heavy Skull Bash KO or two.

Sheik is bullshit even beyond needles. Her Fair and Ftilt need hitbox nerfs. Up B should have no invincibility.

Major roll nerf needed. You can hardly tell when she is rolling because it ends so fast.

Sheik KOs often at around 110%. Very normal. Sometimes she makes lots of mistakes, and then it drags to 150%+. Still, that isn't saying much from a character that gets you to 60% after two hits converted into combos.

Rofl. Ain't that the truth.

Regarding ESAM + customs jank, the narrative was that the pros don't like them and feel they're going to make the game more random or give undeserving players wins. We've seen that customs barely effected top 8 placement. Pretty much everyone who we thought would make it to top 8 did: Zero, Nairo, Mr. R, Fow, ESAM... that the other 3 were a good Sonic, Ally (a top PM player) and Abadango is hardly an upset. If customs beat players who aren't as good, all that means is people need to learn more matchups, and the standards of play will go up. Nothing wrong with that, on its face. The standards of play for Melee are much higher and that community hasn't been negatively effected. Learning how to deal with a custom is easier than spending a year to consistently wavedash/land and l-cancel under pressure. Nothing about EVO gave me the impression that customs should be thrown out.

Sheik is already so hard to play that the tier whores who played Diddy in the prepatch days by and large haven't bothered to switch to her. It drags to 150% when the other player doesn't make huge mistakes and knows how to DI.

Outside of a global nerf to rolls there will never be a roll nerf. Sheik is a ninja-style character. Nerfing hers in particular makes no sense.

Yeah, saying Sheik has to "work" hard for KO's is pretty insulting to all of the characters who can't accidentally get a KO while recovering.

I like this zinger but I'm going to be a debbie downer and point out there are many characters who can stage spike people with their up b's.

Very few characters can deal with her safe aerials with their massive priority.

What makes them strong is how fast they are. If two characters react in the air at the same moment, Sheik's hits first outside of a few character's nairs. Her aerials already trade all the time, it's just that she has the speed advantage. If her fair came out on frame 11 like Bowser's instead of frame 5, no amount of priority would make the move good.

When it comes to tiers - there are certain characters who lend themselves well to being played at a high speed. Those characters find themselves at the top of the roster. Good frame data beats bad. Diddy is the perfect example. Despite all the nerfs, Diddy still has top tier frame data and thus can be played at a high level - with the speed of a top player. This is just the way Smash is. I want the slow characters to be as good, but I don't think that's happening.

 

[Fandangox]

I am glad I have never gotten hit by a Falcon Punch. >.>

What I have definitely Falcon Punched you.

 

[Karsticles]

Regarding ESAM + customs jank, the narrative was that the pros don't like them and feel they're going to make the game more random or give undeserving players wins. We've seen that customs barely effected top 8 placement. Pretty much everyone who we thought would make it to top 8 did: Zero, Nairo, Mr. R, Fow, ESAM... that the other 3 were a good Sonic, Ally (a top PM player) and Abadango is hardly an upset. If customs beat players who aren't as good, all that means is people need to learn more matchups, and the standards of play will go up. Nothing wrong with that, on its face. The standards of play for Melee are much higher and that community hasn't been negatively effected. Learning how to deal with a custom is easier than spending a year to consistently wavedash/land and l-cancel under pressure. Nothing about EVO gave me the impression that customs should be thrown out.

Sheik is already so hard to play that the tier whores who played Diddy in the prepatch days by and large haven't bothered to switch to her. It drags to 150% when the other player doesn't make huge mistakes and knows how to DI.

Outside of a global nerf to rolls there will never be a roll nerf. Sheik is a ninja-style character. Nerfing hers in particular makes no sense.



I like this zinger but I'm going to be a debbie downer and point out there are many characters who can stage spike people with their up b's.



What makes them strong is how fast they are. If two characters react in the air at the same moment, Sheik's hits first outside of a few character's nairs. Her aerials already trade all the time, it's just that she has the speed advantage. If her fair came out on frame 11 like Bowser's instead of frame 5, no amount of priority would make the move good.

When it comes to tiers - there are certain characters who lend themselves well to being played at a high speed. Those characters find themselves at the top of the roster. Good frame data beats bad. Diddy is the perfect example. Despite all the nerfs, Diddy still has top tier frame data and thus can be played at a high level - with the speed of a top player. This is just the way Smash is. I want the slow characters to be as good, but I don't think that's happening.

Sheik has the best roll in the game. Being a "ninja" doesn't excuse that.

You know how I feel about the rest of this. I won't go into it.

When do I get to play your Sheik?

Hey, was wondering if someone could help.

Was wanting to go on the Eshop to download Ryu and Roy, but for some reason I keep getting an error numbered 102-2815. All it says is I can't connect to the Eshop, everything else works fine though. Felt asking here would be better than making a thread.

Is your system updated?

That's all I got. Did you Google the error number?

What I have definitely Falcon Punched you.

-_-

 

[Tusk]

Sheik has the best roll in the game. Being a "ninja" doesn't excuse that.

You know how I feel about the rest of this. I won't go into it.

When do I get to play your Sheik?


Is your system updated?

That's all I got. Did you Google the error number?


-_-

Yeah, I checked that. It's up to date. I tried googling a little more, and just found something. the only thing I've seen though is one person claiming it's related to being banned from the Eshop. But I've done nothing to be banned over.

I guess I'm going to have to call them tomorrow if that's the case.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

The real solution is to buff Greninja's Water Shuriken.

 

[Fandangox]

-_-

Ooh was that like the time Snacks made the Monado joke and you actually answered it, okay yeah I should sleep.

 

[Spirit Icana]

Oh man, amazing games Tipster. You are so hard to KO. Great Mega Man and Little Mac!

It's 3:00 AM over here so I have to go. I look forward to our next matches!

 

[Anonymous Tipster]

Good games Icana! Tough matches all around especially against Roy. I maintain your Roy is fucking brutal to play against.

Thanks for the games!

 

[JulianImp]

Is anyone around to play some 1v1/2v2?

 

[Shin_Okita]

Is anyone around to play some 1v1/2v2?

We could have a go! Uk here!! might be laggy if you're not around EU!

 

[JulianImp]

We could have a go! Uk here!! might be laggy if you're not around EU!

We can always try, at the very least. My NNID's my GAF username.

 

[Shin_Okita]

We can always try, at the very least. My NNID's my GAF username.

Cool! Adding you know! Room will be up in a minute!

 

[Onikaan]

I've become fairly adequate at dunking with falcons dair. So much so that I aggrevate friends to the point they feel cheated in some way.

I personally disagree. It's taken me a while to perfect the art, knowing what moves lead into a perfect set up for the early spike and if they let me get em its their own fault.

Thoughts on spikes being cheap?

 

[JulianImp]

Would you mind some matches with customs on?

 

[Shin_Okita]

No problem dude! I don't mind really!!

 

[Fandangox]

I've become fairly adequate at dunking with falcons dair. So much so that I aggrevate friends to the point they feel cheated in some way.

I personally disagree. It's taken me a while to perfect the art, knowing what moves lead into a perfect set up for the early spike and if they let me get em its their own fault.

Thoughts on spikes being cheap?

Falcon's down spike is really powerful, if the character is at very low percent and doesn't get killed, they will probably still loose the stock if they have a poor recovery.

Its hard to land though, requires a read.

 

[Shamrock7r]

I've become fairly adequate at dunking with falcons dair. So much so that I aggrevate friends to the point they feel cheated in some way.

I personally disagree. It's taken me a while to perfect the art, knowing what moves lead into a perfect set up for the early spike and if they let me get em its their own fault.

Thoughts on spikes being cheap?

Your friends are being babies. If they are constantly getting spiked by Falcon, they aren't very good.

 

[Shin_Okita]

Lol! I'm getting my ass kicked by the stages

 

[Puruzi]

Anyone wanna 1v1? ID is HarimeNui

 

[JulianImp]

Lol! I'm getting my ass kicked by the stages

What was that weird knockback at the end? I've never seen Fox's up smash send opponents in that angle.

 

[Shin_Okita]

What was that weird knockback at the end? I've never seen Fox's up smash send opponents in that angle.

That was an odd one!!, My whole focus was surviving, so I'm not even sure how I got that one!! I'm used to play the same stages so this is pretty new and quite cool!!

 

[Out_Of_Ammo]

Just got 2nd place in a small tourney in a local japan convention. Barely lost in the finals because of a stupid SD at low percent. But I got a Zelda amiibo as price while first place got fucking Sonic so I feel Like I was the winner anyway

 

[JulianImp]

Weird. It seems Pac-Man's hydrants get stuck onto the moving platform underneath the stage at times.

 

[Karsticles]

I've become fairly adequate at dunking with falcons dair. So much so that I aggrevate friends to the point they feel cheated in some way.

I personally disagree. It's taken me a while to perfect the art, knowing what moves lead into a perfect set up for the early spike and if they let me get em its their own fault.

Thoughts on spikes being cheap?

Your friends are bad, and scrubs. Folks here won't get dunked often, I promise.

Add someone here and play a set.

Just got 2nd place in a small tourney in a local japan convention. Barely lost in the finals because of a stupid SD at low percent. But I got a Zelda amiibo as price while first place got fucking Sonic so I feel Like I was the winner anyway

Haha, Grats!

 

[Wyndstryker]

I've become fairly adequate at dunking with falcons dair. So much so that I aggrevate friends to the point they feel cheated in some way.

I personally disagree. It's taken me a while to perfect the art, knowing what moves lead into a perfect set up for the early spike and if they let me get em its their own fault.

Thoughts on spikes being cheap?

I can spike kill the vast majority of the guys I see in FG.

I rarely get a spike kill on gaffers.

Nothing wrong with spikes, better players just know how to avoid them.

edit: And many gaffers here play tournaments, so yeah, playing against some for the first time is a huge wake up call to what the skill ceiling actually is.

 

[ruffles]

Anyone up for teams/FFA?

 

[Shin_Okita]

GGs Julian, great games! had a tough time with fox against your pac man!!

 

[JulianImp]

That was an odd one!!, My whole focus was surviving, so I'm not even sure how I got that one!! I'm used to play the same stages so this is pretty new and quite cool!!

Good games! Lots of cool, close games. I definitely feel like I'm more used to crazy fruits now, since I like how I get to throw them out really fast to gain stage control, unlike the regular fruits which you've got to charge to get any good results out of. Still, I can't deny that the apple and key kills saved me several times when I was running default Pac.

It feels like Fox can't attempt any jab>whatever combos against Pac-Man's nair. One thing I noticed is you'd often prefer to ignore my hydrants, but I think you should play a bit more with them in order to turn them against me more often.

I also noticed you often do get-up jumps from the ledges, so I tried my best to punish that. I feel like you also had a tendency to roll into me on wake-up, which is why I often went for up smash reads.

 

[Shin_Okita]

Good games! Lots of cool, close games. I definitely feel like I'm more used to crazy fruits now, since I like how I get to throw them out really fast to gain stage control, unlike the regular fruits which you've got to charge to get any good results out of. Still, I can't deny that the apple and key kills saved me several times when I was running default Pac.

It feels like Fox can't attempt any jab>whatever combos against Pac-Man's nair. One thing I noticed is you'd often prefer to ignore my hydrants, but I think you should play a bit more with them in order to turn them against me more often.

I also noticed you often do get-up jumps from the ledges, so I tried my best to punish that. I feel like you also had a tendency to roll into me on wake-up, which is why I often went for up smash reads.

I had no previous experience with this match up! so I was questioning the jabs the whole time I was playing! I still can't believe how hard was to confirm a jab on pac man, It threw me completely off balance, specially because with other characters I could manage pac and keep up with it!

That apple made quite a difference and the hydrant thing I started pretty scared of it! I did not notice you could take damage from it until later!

Looking forward to play you again!! great matchup practice.

 

[Shamrock7r]

Yea, fuck DK Cyclone. Shit is stupid

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

Who is around
to play this game

 

[Boney]

Anybody Wanna Play?

Wooooosh

Using Mario for a sec, cant believe how bullshit it is that you can change your momentum like that in the air with the fire balls.

Missiles am cry

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

Anybody Wanna Play?

Wooooosh

Using Mario for a sec, cant believe how bullshit it is that you can change your momentum like that in the air with the fire balls.

Missiles am cry

Samus can't B reverse her Charge Shot either :^)

 

[Boney]

Samus can't B reverse her Charge Shot either :^)

Also the game tips say that the air charge shot fires almost instantly, but it's just as slow as the grounded one.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

My internet got a boost :3 an extra 30 Mbps down means I can download more shit, time to watch everything in 4k.


Anyway, who's smashing? Because

Spoiler

I am not.