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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U DLC |OT2| Lucas comes out of Nowhere!

W

Wyndstryker

Member
Oidisco said:
Hey so I have an idea. We both main Zelda and we both play her differently, and we both do well with her. I think it'd be a good idea to send eachother replays of some matches to get an idea of what we both do and how we can work some of those things into our playstyles.

I have a capture card aswell, so I can upload some of these to youtube to make it easier to watch.
Click to expand...

I would say we send replays with specific requirements so we can get a good idea of how to make style changes.

1: Doesn't matter if it's a win or lose, a good fight where both players can be killed basically anytime.

2: If you pull off some crazy stunt that worked, send it regardless of the above. New ideas go a long way.

3: If you get absolutely destroyed by someone in FG. Basically only hit them for less than 40% and got 2 stocked.

I don't have a capture card, but I usually upload replays that make me look good on youtube lol. Here's a couple that got me some ideas awhile back.

Far offstage teleport kill on 2nd stock

Elevator kill from ledge tether
 
C

Cyberman65

Member
Back from EVO. Was amazing and glad that I went. Even got to meet a couple of GAFers there!

Didn't do as well as I thought I would. I got out of the first pools in losers. Lost to Bloodcross' Fox 1-2 in that pool even after that practice with CRQ. The matchup is just too hard for Sonic, along with ZSS. I tried to use Burning Spin Dash the first round and lost it close, but then switched to Hammer Spin Dash and brought it down to the last game.

Got to the second pool and won one match in that, then lost the second match in a Sonic mirror. The mirror really annoys me since I always lose it against literally most or every Sonic player I play.

After watching Staticmanny play and getting that far really questions the way that I'm playing the character. I probably need to start incorporating some of his style into mine, even though I despise playing like that. Will most likely try it out in the local weekly here.

Losing there really helped me figure out what my problems are which I've been trying to figure out. I also talked to a lot of Sonic mains there and learned a lot. I'm hoping that Smash 4 is there again.
 
P

Puruzi

Banned
Cyberman65 said:
After watching Staticmanny play and getting that far really questions the way that I'm playing the character. I probably need to start incorporating some of his style into mine, even though I despise playing like that. Will most likely try it out in the local weekly here.
Click to expand...

Please don't. You're like, the only Sonic that's actually fun to play against, and not an exercise in frustration.
 
C

Captain Rage Quit 69

Banned
Cyberman65 said:
Back from EVO. Was amazing and glad that I went. Even got to meet a couple of GAFers there!

Didn't do as well as I thought I would. I got out of the first pools in losers. Lost to Bloodcross' Fox 1-2 in that pool even after that practice with CRQ. The matchup is just too hard for Sonic, along with ZSS. I tried to use Burning Spin Dash the first round and lost it close, but then switched to Hammer Spin Dash and brought it down to the last game.

Got to the second pool and won one match in that, then lost the second match in a Sonic mirror. The mirror really annoys me since I always lose it against literally most or every Sonic player I play.

After watching Staticmanny play and getting that far really questions the way that I'm playing the character. I probably need to start incorporating some of his style into mine, even though I despise playing like that. Will most likely try it out in the local weekly here.

Losing there really helped me figure out what my problems are which I've been trying to figure out. I also talked to a lot of Sonic mains there and learned a lot. I'm hoping that Smash 4 is there again.
Click to expand...
Copy 6WX, not Staticmanny please. You're like the one Sonic who plays him like it's Sonic Battle and not mash B to go fast.

I'm guessing my Fox wasn't as good as Bloodcross, which is understandable. He ended up going pretty far. :O

I think if you're losing the Sonic mirror, you should develop a solid counterpick to him. Wario or even Sheik.

I want to go to Evo next year, I hope they have Smash 4 again!
 
C

Cyberman65

Member
Puruzi said:
Please don't. You're like, the only Sonic that's actually fun to play against, and not an exercise in frustration.
Click to expand...
Oh no, I won't at all. I just want to see how it works out 1 or 2 rounds against somebody. :p It would be too hard to change anyway at this point for me.


Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
Copy 6WX, not Staticmanny please. You're like the one Sonic who plays him like it's Sonic Battle and not mash B to go fast.

I'm guessing my Fox wasn't as good as Bloodcross, which is understandable. He ended up going pretty far. :O

I think if you're losing the Sonic mirror, you should develop a solid counterpick to him. Wario or even Sheik.

I want to go to Evo next year, I hope they have Smash 4 again!
Click to expand...
The whole crowd was complaining about him during the whole set, it was terrrible. And yeah, Bloodcross is probably one of the best Fox players in the US next to Larry. The character can just punish me so fast if I make one mistake.

I was actually thinking of picking of Sheik or even Fox against him since it would be so much easier.
 
B

Boney

Banned
Sharing this Yoshi rant from smashbooards so we can continue our hate ritual

@JAZZ_ Yoshi vs Samus I quite dislike because the matchup exemplifies all of Sakurai's bias in design. It's can be an extremely frustrating venture against a good Yoshi because you'll see things that intuitively you feel are just "wrong". It's a showcase of how bad and bias a designer he is. There's no other way to put it in polite conversation.
You can't trade, just forget about it. All of Yoshi's attacks have priority, he has big generous hitboxes that all connect and link well together and shield him from exposing his hurtbox. If they just hit buttons and you just hit buttons, they're going to win. Don't just hit buttons and spit hitboxes, you will get murdered.
His f-smash and up-smash have invincibility frames. Never forget this.
Yoshi's grab is actually just fast enough to grab Samus out of many of her moves. His dash grab, unlike his standing grab, is quite fast, as opposed to Samus' which gets worse.
Things that you think should work but just simply don't because Sakuria's a sob:
up-B vs. Yoshi bomb. Your "high priority" move - forget about it. You only chase Yoshi in low orbit, once he starts really flying high, you're not going to win short of a miracle landing our tiny invincibility frames at absurdly tight timings. Same for aerials. Stay grounded, charge your shot.
Yoshi f-air is a massive disjoint, like crazy huge you can't challenge it offstage at all. It almost always spikes as opposed to sourpot, it's pretty much everything we would want in our d-air. Because of this you're only ever going to recover very very low. Don't spit a missile and pray our useless projectile will do something, There's literally no point in trying to recover horizontally, high. You're going to repeat this cycle over rand over again because this is what Sakurai prescribed as your only option. And his b-air can still stage spike you recovering low so you need bomb mixup.
Unfortunately the converse is not true, Yoshi can freely recover to the stage whenever he wants because of his super-armor jump. He's almost impossible to gimp, and you should only try for a spike if he is only just barely going to make it back to stage. Even then an egg during recovery, which nicely covers his hurbox, may ruin your attempt, most likely. He basically gets back to the stage for free. You're going to charge your shot #1, then drop bombs at the ledge and charge shot him when he tries to land on-stage.
His command grab means sitting in shield is a recipe for disaster, so you can't reliably punish with up-B out of shield, also his landing lag is so low that in many cases you'll find up-B clanking with a stupid 3 frame jab that always perfectly links and has setups out of it.
From what I can tell, every one of Yoshi's multi-hits link on Samus flawlessly, and I honestly don't know or understand why or what has been programmed in the game that allows me to never escape them. The Yoshi b-air, is pretty much what we would want for our own multihits, long-lasting, huge hitbox, nice disjoint, and at any angle of approach or target vector everything connects, all of the time. The d-air, same sort of property, no matter what I try, whether I'm in the air, on the ground, at the edge of the attack, it just "works". I would really like to sit down with Sakurai one day and ask him how he could with a straight face say "I have no favourites" and then compare the multi-hit properties of Samus' arsenal vs Yoshi's.
Angle your f-smash, f-tilt down, always. Yoshi has tons of frames where he crouches and his hurtbox becomes very flat, just take my word for it and do it and avoid raging like a lunatic when it misses for no good goddamn reason.

Is this one of our worst matchups? It could be, at times it certainly seems that way. Your only, only saving grace is land-based moves out-range Yoshi's and he has no hard-coded straight up counter to CS. You're going to throw out a lot of spot-dodge, and a lot of SH-AD. That's just the way it's going to be until we get a real patch.
Click to expand...
 
N

NamikazeBurst

Member
Boney said:
Sharing this Yoshi rant from smashbooards so we can continue our hate ritual
Click to expand...

I am laughing so much at the next post.

Usually, I contradict folks when they point out Sakurai being a biased dev but, in this case, I just can't contradict this. The dichotomy in character power here is staggering. Yoshi, imo, is a braindead character who can throw out attacks whenever he wants and never get punished for them. Meanwhile, he has no weaknesses to offset this like Sheik and Pika have for example. He has no trouble killing, no trouble approaching, no trouble comboing, no trouble recovering, no trouble avoiding punishes, no trouble against campers because of eggs, and no trouble against rushdown characters because of his frame 3 jab and the fact that he can angle his eggs to pressure their approach.

Look at Samus and tell me that this is a character that got just as much love as Yoshi did. In comparison, she was ignored. In fact, she was made worse in a lot of areas from brawl and she was terrible in brawl. Nair is now ****. Jab is still ****. Her fsmash was given a sweetspot whose hitbox is jank. She has nowhere near the approach options of Yoshi, nowhere near the approach stuffing options of Yoshi, and yet they have the gall to screw up her ftilt in one patch and give her a tiny usmash buff in another. That says, to me, that they think she's fairly well balanced and only needs a tiny bit of tweaking to be made perfectly balanced. It's an insult how ignorant the balance team must be to not see very simple dichotomies like Samus vs. Yoshi.
Click to expand...

I guess Yoshi is #1 confirmed, and the only reason he wasn't in the top 32 at EVO was because he was banned due to how good he is. In fact, #1 is an understatement. Yoshi is as close to zero as possible, because he can't be zero, as ZeRo is zero, and ZeRo beats anyone no matter what the character.

#Kappa
In all seriousness, you go like 50/50 with me with the Samus vs. Yoshi match-up. Granted I am really shit at killing you and you have no problem killing me...
 
J

jnWake

Member
Boney said:
Sharing this Yoshi rant from smashbooards so we can continue our hate ritual
Click to expand...

Lol, I can't take that guy/gal seriously. Yoshi is so far from being impossible to gimp, even with the super armour in the second jump (it's funny how he complains as if the second jump shouldn't have super armour or something to help it).

I don't think Samus vs Yoshi is such a terrible match up. Yoshi doesn't have a good answer to shield + projectiles since the grab is sucky and the command grab isn't that fast either. Complaining about being beaten by down-B is silly and only deserves to be replied by "git gud". If you can't avoid Yoshi Bombs then you just suck haha. In the air, Samus has some aerials with long range that work fine like Bair and Fair.

And the biggest lol is claiming there's bias in favour of Yoshi who has always sucked (before Sm4sh of course). One of the few characters in the game without up-B recovery (although Egg Throw is better now), one of the worst rolls in the game and crappy grab.
 
H

Hatchtag

Banned
I honestly have been playing more of the 3DS version recently, and while its better for me (I tend to play on portables more), holy fuck is the average connection in For Glory a lot worse than it is on the Wii U.
 
N

NamikazeBurst

Member
Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
Let's give Sonic Yoshi's fair

and give him Sheik's needles

and give him super armor on his spin dashes

and give him Dedede's weight

and give him the rest of Yoshi's moveset

in fact let's just give Yoshi a spindash and
Click to expand...

This is what egg roll should be. A slow spin dash that is more powerful and has more priority, but doesn't combo into anything.

Yoshi should also be able to grapple to the ledge with his tongue, and have a tongue zair. Make no sense for him not to.

I am 100% serious right now.
 
C

Captain Rage Quit 69

Banned
NamikazeBurst said:
This is what egg roll should be. A slow spin dash that is more powerful and has more priority, but doesn't combo into anything.

Yoshi should also be able to grapple to the ledge with his tongue, and have a tongue zair. Make no sense for him not to.

I am 100% serious right now.
Click to expand...

If Greninja doesn't get to do that shit with his tongue Yoshi sure as hell can't


actually let's give Greninja a spin dash.


Actually actually who can we buff by giving them a Sonic spindash


Let's give Sheik a spindash
 
N

NamikazeBurst

Member
Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
If Greninja doesn't get to do that shit with his tongue Yoshi sure as hell can't


actually let's give Greninja a spin dash.


Actually actually who can we buff by giving them a Sonic spindash


Let's give Sheik a spindash
Click to expand...

Well Yoshi's grab is a tether, so it should get all the benefits of a tether, rather than the downsides of being super shitty.

ZeRo just said he is the best Bowser on his stream.
 
J

JulianImp

Member
Please, Nami. Remember Pac-Man exists and be grateful for Yoshi's grab.

Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
If Greninja doesn't get to do that shit with his tongue Yoshi sure as hell can't


actually let's give Greninja a spin dash.


Actually actually who can we buff by giving them a Sonic spindash
Click to expand...

Anything's better with spindash. The next patch should give everybody hammer spindash.

Gotta go fast
 
N

NamikazeBurst

Member
JulianImp said:
Please, Nami. Remember Pac-Man exists and be grateful for Yoshi's grab.
Click to expand...

You got those grab set-ups with the hydrant! That is something, right?

Right?


Rather than comparing bad grabs, let's just get together and make a "We have shit grabs" club. We can then all be happy being sad about our grabs.
 
J

JulianImp

Member
NamikazeBurst said:
You got those grab set-ups with the hydrant! That is something, right?

Right?


Rather than comparing bad grabs, let's just get together and make a "We have shit grabs" club. We can then all be happy being sad about our grabs.
Click to expand...

Yeah, a set-up that requires bair, then a weak attack to knock the hydrant and keep it bouncing in place, and finally having my opponent walk up to me and letting me grab them. God forbid they dodge Pac-Man's amazing grab or that I hit them with the deadzone that is in there because of reasons. It's a set-up that can happen, but it most likely won't because it can be seen coming from a mile away. I guess a hydrant + trampoline ledgeguarding setup would be more effective.

Actually, giving Pac-Man a zair would be really interesting, since it could be great as a disjointed attack.
 
N

NamikazeBurst

Member
JulianImp said:
Yeah, a set-up that requires bair, then a weak attack to knock the hydrant and keep it bouncing in place, and finally having my opponent walk up to me and letting me grab them. God forbid they dodge Pac-Man's amazing grab or that I hit them with the deadzone that is in there because of reasons. It's a set-up that can happen, but it most likely won't because it can be seen coming from a mile away. I guess a hydrant + trampoline ledgeguarding setup would be more effective.

Actually, giving Pac-Man a zair would be really interesting, since it could be great as a disjointed attack.
Click to expand...

Abadango did it at EVO so it must be legit.


I hope you know I was joking.
 
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