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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U DLC |OT2| Lucas comes out of Nowhere!

A

Anonymous Tipster

Member
Phantom Flapjack said:
Damn, good games. Prooooobably shouldn't have picked FD
Click to expand...

Incredibly close games man! Your Ness is very different from Shamrocks and is way more defensive. Made it incredibly frustrating to get in with those scary aerials and deadly throw. Guess a taste of my own medicine.

I groaned when I saw FD, and even more angrier at those two reflected Danger wrap kills. ;;


Did you want to do some friendlies now?
 
P

Phantom Flapjack

Member
Anonymous Tipster said:
Incredibly close games man! Your Ness is very different from Shamrocks and is way more defensive. Made it incredibly frustrating to get in with those scary aerials and deadly throw. Guess a taste of my own medicine.

I groaned when I saw FD, and even more angrier at those two reflected Danger wrap kills. ;;


Did you want to do some friendlies now?
Click to expand...

Sure, I'll try out some other characters
 
N

NamikazeBurst

Member
Karsticles said:
GGs Nami. I just wanted that last Rest, haha.




Neutral B?

Grabs from the air, B reversible, extremely little endlag, leads to combos, ranged.

What grab is better than all that?
Click to expand...

GGs. That shield break was hilarious. Glad I finally got one on Jigglypuff.

This is the frame data on Yoshi's neutral B.

Neutral Special (1): Egg Lay
Frame 21-24: Grab
Duration: 43
Opponent Break-Out Invincibility: 1-10

If I am reading this right, it has 20 frames of start-up, and then 19 frames of end lag. That doesn't seem like extremely little end lag. The combos aren't that great. Air dodge right after and the jump and I will likely get nothing. You can also vary how long you're in there to mislead me. I would say ZSS, Lucas, and Luigi all have better grabs. All of their grabs can lead to KOs, practically guaranteed at certain %.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
NamikazeBurst said:
GGs. That shield break was hilarious. Glad I finally got one on Jigglypuff.

This is the frame data on Yoshi's neutral B.

Neutral Special (1): Egg Lay
Frame 21-24: Grab
Duration: 43
Opponent Break-Out Invincibility: 1-10

If I am reading this right, it has 20 frames of start-up, and then 19 frames of end lag. That doesn't seem like extremely little end lag. The combos aren't that great. Air dodge right after and the jump and I will likely get nothing. You can also vary how long you're in there to mislead me. I would say ZSS, Lucas, and Luigi all have better grabs. All of their grabs can lead to KOs, practically guaranteed at certain %.
Click to expand...
Bowser has almost 50 frames of endlag on his grab. Think about it.
 
N

NamikazeBurst

Member
Karsticles said:
Bowser has almost 50 frames of endlag on his grab. Think about it.
Click to expand...

His command grab or regular one? Because this link disagrees if you say regular.

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Bowser

These are Yoshi's regular grabs, you know, not a special move.

Standing Grab
Frame 14-24: Grab
Enables state transition on real frame 45
Duration: 55

Dash Grab
Frame 11-21: Grab
Enables state transition on real frame 35
Duration: 67

Pivot Grab
Frame 10-19: Grab
Enables state transition on real frame 27
Duration: 64

I think Yoshi deserves the command grab he has now. He already has 1 useless special, and his grab is pretty bad for how punishable it is.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
NamikazeBurst said:
His command grab or regular one? Because this link disagrees if you say regular.

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Bowser

These are Yoshi's regular grabs, you know, not a special move.

Standing Grab
Frame 14-24: Grab
Enables state transition on real frame 45
Duration: 55

Dash Grab
Frame 11-21: Grab
Enables state transition on real frame 35
Duration: 67

Pivot Grab
Frame 10-19: Grab
Enables state transition on real frame 27
Duration: 64

I think Yoshi deserves the command grab he has now. He already has 1 useless special, and his grab is pretty bad for how punishable it is.
Click to expand...
Dash grab for Bowser takes 48 frames until he can act again.
 
N

NamikazeBurst

Member
Karsticles said:
A RANGED GRAB WITH GUARANTEED FOLLOW-UPS IS 5 FRAMES FASTER THAN A GRAPPLER'S WITH NONE.
Click to expand...

It isn't even a grab technically. It is a special move. The only guaranteed follow-ups are half-damage moves. Nothing is guaranteed when you pop out of the egg. I don't see what point you are trying to make. Yoshi is a better character than Bowser, and he is better because of his move set and frame data.

Once again, Yoshi has a useless special move that he has to make up for in some way. I would like to know a special move worse than Yoshi's Egg Roll.
 
S

Snacks the sober sea lion

Member
NamikazeBurst said:
It isn't even a grab technically. It is a special move. The only guaranteed follow-ups are half-damage moves. Nothing is guaranteed when you pop out of the egg. I don't see what point you are trying to make. Yoshi is a better character than Bowser, and he is better because of his move set and frame data.

Once again, Yoshi has a useless special move that he has to make up for in some way. I would like to know a special move worse than Yoshi's Egg Roll.
Click to expand...

Greninja's Substitute.

I made a guy who seemed pretty nice quit because Ryu's Shoryuken KO's at 60% with Rage. Unfortunate.
 
N

NamikazeBurst

Member
Snacks the sober sea lion said:
Greninja's Substitute.

I made a guy who seemed pretty nice quit because Ryu's Shoryuken KO's at 60% with Rage. Unfortunate.
Click to expand...

That has a chance of hitting the opponent, and it blocks a hit, so it is definitely better. I am not saying it is good, but it has some situations where it can be used. Egg Roll is easily dodged, or you can even hit Yoshi out of it, and it has lots of end lag. The only thing it is good for is killing me from a misinput.
 
C

Captain Rage Quit 69

Banned
NamikazeBurst said:
That has a chance of hitting the opponent, and it blocks a hit, so it is definitely better. Egg Roll is easily dodged, or you can even hit Yoshi out of it, and it has lots of end lag. The only thing it is good for is killing me from a misinput.
Click to expand...

How about Jigglypuff's Sing?

At least you can hit someone with Egg Roll, Sing takes a while to actually "hit", it completely stops Jiggs' movement and lasts forever, it's only use is to extend Jiggs' height at the apex of her jump very slightly. Even then that's risky given if you miss the ledge you're basically dead.
 
S

Snacks the sober sea lion

Member
You just hate Egg Roll because it's too easy for Yoshi to SD with it. The move at least does damage and can be made safe. Greninja and Palutena got stuck with completely garbage counters that don't even work right half the time.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
NamikazeBurst said:
It isn't even a grab technically. It is a special move. The only guaranteed follow-ups are half-damage moves. Nothing is guaranteed when you pop out of the egg. I don't see what point you are trying to make. Yoshi is a better character than Bowser, and he is better because of his move set and frame data.

Once again, Yoshi has a useless special move that he has to make up for in some way. I would like to know a special move worse than Yoshi's Egg Roll.
Click to expand...
Damage is guaranteed INSIDE the egg.

Grabs are grabs if they hold you and go through shields. Don't be coy.

Special move worse than Egg Roll: Sing.

Not that it matters.
 
N

NamikazeBurst

Member
Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
How about Jigglypuff's Sing?

At least you can hit someone with Egg Roll, Sing takes a while to actually "hit", it completely stops Jiggs' movement and lasts forever, it's only use is to extend Jiggs' height at the apex of her jump very slightly. Even then that's risky given if you miss the ledge you're basically dead.
Click to expand...

The only time I ever actually hit someone with an Egg Roll is when they are coming down from the air. Even then, I activated it accidentally because any other move would be better.

If you do hit with Sing, it is possible to get a Rest off or another move. I would say the reward from Sing is much better than anything from Egg Roll, despite having higher risk (except for Egg Roll SDs).

Snacks the sober sea lion said:
You just hate Egg Roll because it's too easy for Yoshi to SD with it. The move at least does damage and can be made safe. Greninja and Palutena got stuck with completely garbage counters that don't even work right half the time.
Click to expand...

I would take a garbage counter like Greninja's and Palutena's over Egg Roll any day of the week. How can Egg Roll be made safe? I can activate it and try and stay where I am away from the opponent, but the duration is predictable and the time to get out of it is easily punished. The damage it does is negligible because any good opponent will shield it all or hit/grab Yoshi out of it, thus backfiring.

Karsticles said:
Damage is guaranteed INSIDE the egg.

Grabs are grabs if they hold you and go through shields. Don't be coy.

Special move worse than Egg Roll: Sing.

Not that it matters.
Click to expand...

I bring up the fact that it is a special move because it takes the place of 1/4 special moves. That means Yoshi has 4 grabs and 2 useable special moves, while most others have 3 grabs and 4 useable special moves.

Once again, any grab that leads to a kill is better. You think Egg Lay is better than Ness' grab?
 
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