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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U DLC |OT2| Lucas comes out of Nowhere!
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
He is very fun to play as, but some match ups just straight up destroy him.
A lot really, really do. But you know who my least favorite Mac match up is? Mac. I know it's technically even, but it's kinda depressing realizing how limited his toolbox is and how much of a crutch his KO punch is.
Plus it always sucks when you lose to your main lol
Karsticles
Member
Sonic is beatable. I do pretty well against most Sonic players. Sheik is the one that needs to die.
Sonic is beatable. I do pretty well against most Sonic players. Sheik is the one that needs to die.
But Sheik is not boring to fight against, its not even having problems against Sonic, he is just the most boring character in the entire cast to play against.
Karsticles
Member
He's pretty easy to fix, I think. Just:
1) Dair always has landing lag.
2) Dash speed slightly reduced.
3) Spindash priority decreased.
4) Fix Fsmash.
I agree with all except two, I don't think dash speed is the issue, is everything else that makes it an issue.
Karsticles
Member
Nah, his dash speed really is crazy. He can punish Mewtwo's ftilt from half a screen away.
People say Captain Falcon is really fast, but look at the data:
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/DashSpeed
RANK CHARACTER MAX RUN SPEED VALUE
1 Sonic 3.5
2 Captain Falcon 2.32
3 Little Mac 2.24
4 Fox 2.184
5 Zero Suit Samus 2.1
We're talking about a character that is more than 1.5 times the speed of the character right below him.
Bring it down to 2.8 or something. Sonic wasn't fast without spinning in his original games anyway.
Captain Falcon is fast, but what allows him to punish from afar is his dash grab.
I think with Sonic they tried to have a character that could play the keep away game by hit-and-run, but somehow ended with a character that can spam attacks all day without getting punished for it.
Karsticles
Member
Where does the punishment come from, then?
You can't make Spindash punishable. It would be a crap move.
That's a good point I guess, but my beef is that all of it is safe on block, like how do you even approach Sonic when nothing short of a dash attack will actually leave him open.
Karsticles
Member
Jump.
Spindash, in a vacuum, is pretty fair. It's a lot like Shadow Ball. If Mewtwo has a fully charged Shadow Ball and is just sitting there, it's a dangerous situation for the opposing player. That's Mewtwo's reward for establishing space.
Sonic gets Spindash as a reward for establishing space. If you don't want him to rev up Spindash, you need to apply pressure. Of course, this isn't even possible for all characters, but Spindash isn't the core of the problem.
Most characters have some kind of option against Spindash. As Bowser, depending on the spacing, I will either:
1) Jump in and Fire Breath (high risk).
2) Try to time Dtilt or Down B to beat out Spindash.
3) Double jump on top of Sonic (Dair threat - all Sonics let go at this point).
4) Sit and wait - Sonic will let go eventually.
Falcon Kick has good priority. Have you ever just run up and used it? I bet it clanks, at least, and then you're back at the neutral.
Karsticles
Member
Priority in Smash is based on the % difference in damage dealt. I believe the difference has to be more than 9%, though it might have changed from older titles:
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Priority
This is why a half-charged Shadow Ball will clank with Falcon Kick, but a fully charged Shadow Ball will beat Falcon Kick.
Doesnt Pac-Man's orange clanks with an almost fully charged shadow ball?
Do they deal similar damage?
Karsticles
Member
That's a little different. Some thrown items always clank with Shadow Ball. All of Pac-man's fruits clank with Shadow Ball at any charge. Link's bombs do this as well, even the 1% damage custom meteor versions (AFAIK).
PK Fire always clanks with Shadow Ball, as well.
Karsticles
Member
It differs by projectile. Shadow Ball (charged) will tear through stuff like Luigi's fireballs, Link's boomerang/bow, and Megaman's Metal Blade. I have no idea why some things stop it and others don't.
Duck Hunt's down B and side B both clink with it, too.
One of the best set in the history of Smash.
Abadango vs Dabuz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j7QDPQiWys (EVO)
I know believe Wario can be high tier.
I can't stop watching it!
Abadango vs Dabuz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j7QDPQiWys (EVO)
I know believe Wario can be high tier.
I can't stop watching it!
A friend of mine always bitches at me if I play as Sonic, due to how repetitive the moveset apparently is with the Spin Dashes. It's not my fault that they made his moveset that way!
Kinda frustrating actually. Sonic is treated well, but Mega Man and Pac-Man seem to have it better - particularly when it comes to music. Must be something on SEGA'S end considering the amount of remixes for the other third party characters. Hell, even Ryu has more!
Kinda frustrating actually. Sonic is treated well, but Mega Man and Pac-Man seem to have it better - particularly when it comes to music. Must be something on SEGA'S end considering the amount of remixes for the other third party characters. Hell, even Ryu has more!
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Day 4 without smash. If I don't survive the next 10 days, I want you guys to know I love you all.
lolez2matt
Member
After playing with you guys yesterday, I GoT pumped so today at night (12 hours more) I Will be waiting for someone to play with me
me.
me.
Cyberman65
Member
I really like this whole discussion on Twitter explaining about how he is and his playstyle. Its basically what I think when people complain about Sonic.
PK Flash isn't lame! I KOed someone with it once!
Huh. Ryu is super neat but kind of slow for me. Really hard to pick up and play and do well with, although his input commands are surprisingly easy to do, compared to the actual SF series (I always screw up SRK on SFIV).
Anyway, loving the shit out of Roy. Brings me back to melee. He's like in between Marth and Ike.
Anyway, loving the shit out of Roy. Brings me back to melee. He's like in between Marth and Ike.
Karsticles
Member
Street Fighter V Beta starts today. That will be my focus this next week.
I think Sonic has a moveset that reflects how most people think of him. What would he have that would fit him better?
Haha, cool. =)
<3
Do you play on For Glory with the name TrueBlue?
I think Sonic has a moveset that reflects how most people think of him. What would he have that would fit him better?
Wario has always been top tier material.
lolez2matt
Member
Question for bowser users. Best way to recover when being send flying? The battles I had yesterday made me notice I´m at a true disadvantage when landing on the platform. Also, Boney made me realize he down + B attack near the platform is a good way to send someone flying without risking too much (just need to measure the correct distance from the border and practice)
Karsticles
Member
If they are far enough away, Fire Breath can protect your landing.
Usually, you need to return to the ledge. It is the only safe place for Bowser.
Infrequently, Dair, Down B, or side B while you land.
My YouTube channel in my GAF profile has some of my Bowser play. Give it a watch.
lolez2matt
Member
Basically all I had in mind. I have to lessen the use of down + A ( I love it when it connects and sends the oponent flying <3).
I´m gonna check some your channel!!!
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
This rings pretty hollow to me. Sonic, bad approach options? He has the fastest run speed, a dash attack that goes through people, a special that goes through people and can combo, pretty damn safe aerials. Obviously he can't play spacing quite the same as other characters because he runs so fast, but I don't believe for a second that "side b, then side b again with no attempt to mix up the opponent" and succeeding through sheer dumb, safe, persistence is Sonic's only viable playstyle. Especially because there's already a competitive Sonic player who DOESN'T play that way.
lolez2matt
Member
Wait, you all here play with customs?
I don´t use them. xD
I don´t use them. xD
Karsticles
Member
Sonic is as bad at approaching as Greninja is at jumping.
They are controversial here.
Customs are godlike for Bowser.
I've seen people argue that sonic aerials are not that good because the have too much end lag, I mean what
We could see if the connection holds alright
No problem, good luck with Sunday!
I'm so used to playing with lag that I can adapt relatively easily
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Someone ask for a Mario main? Granted I play Doc way more but still.
yes pls
Karsticles
Member
I don't think we have any Yoshi mains around here.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
I hear Tipster has a pretty alright pocket Yoshi but
Edit: Soul Lab give me 15 minutes and we can play. Sound fair to you?
I'm ok with this.
Regarding Yoshi: I'm really struggling against Yoshi with Luigi. Yoshi has some good spacing tools I can't deal with.
Anonymous Tipster
Member
By virtue of the color Yoshi I pick alone, it's safe to say I have the best Yoshi on GAF.
I would never
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Alright, I'm here! Make a room Soul Lab, while I start things up.