I'm not great either. But I love Sm4sh and would like to see it becoming bigger.
The Game ID is your Nintendo Network ID. I was confused too
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U DLC |OT2| Lucas comes out of Nowhere!
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
I'm not great either. But I love Sm4sh and would like to see it becoming bigger.
The Game ID is your Nintendo Network ID. I was confused too
I hate to add to what seems lately to be a kinda complainy thread, but I have my own complaints here... earlier tonight I literally spot dodged a Captain Falcon throw attempt, then got grabbed as I came out of it. No trickery here, CF is literally fast enough to punish my spot dodge on his grab. Played just a smidge of for glory tonight and man, easy Falcons are great to style on (I saved a replay I'll be sharing with everyone of just this happening), but better Falcons really are rough to play against. Without customs, Falcon holding A as Bowser is on the ledge covers 2/3 normal getup options. He can react fast enough to cover the roll too. What really grinds my gears is how CF can dash grab from so far away faster than I can react - it's hard enough to react to offline, online basically means "don't shield." Being Bowser means "don't roll/spot dodge," so basically I wall out with jabs and hope he runs into them rather than through the spaces between, and slowly give up stage space until I'm caught on the ledge and am at an even worse disadvantage. After a night of comfortably aggressive play against opponents lesser than myself, it really bummed me how out defensive I had to be to even have a chance. Ugh. I dodged so many spike attempts, but given how many times I was thrown offstage it was just a matter of time until a spike compounded the poor matchup.
Whatever.
Whatever.
Wyndstryker
Member
Zelda's projectiles are too slow, Mac can literally rush in unopposed. And just being able to get a Mac offstage requires some effort from Zelda. However one the Mac is offstage it's easy to keep him off, but to get him offstage, thats the hard part.
I only like Smash, Marvel, Skullgirls, and P4A. Street Fighter means nothing to me.
Probably won't even have enough time to get into a real fighting game with university
When I was doing the ranbats here I was working like 80 hours a week and I still had time for it, even was the first one to finish all matches ( a week) there's plenty of time!
Falcon needs the ridiculous grab cause his approaching options are rather lacking. If you have a safe move with no recovery keep using it to space out the falcons since more often than not, there's only 3 way a falcon will approach you, dash attack, dash grab, or reverse aerial rush.
If you keep throwing out safe hitboxes in front of the falcon you will pretty much shut down half of his approach game. Falcons's approach game basically consists of "welp enemy is on recovery time, time to rush in"
I definitely know that. I am not the type that can study for multiple hours straight. A fighting game that isn't Smash Bros. just seems like it is a lot harder to get good at. I still have fun in fighters right now when I am garbage. I am so bad I couldn't get far into the 2nd set of rankings in TTT2. When I got SCV, I joined a lobby where two really good players kept destroying me, but it was still fun. The only fighting game that makes me salty is Smash
Traditional 2D fighters aren't that different from Smash on a fundamental level. Movement is more restricted and you don't have to worry about the direction you're facing or complex air control so general spacing is far simpler. Short of like, Arcana Heart or some weird Touhou fighters you're not gonna find many 2D games with movement as complex as Smash. There are adjustments to be made for sure, but most aren't "harder" than Smash.
3D games are a different beast. They tend to reward deep character knowledge in a way that 2D games don't. You pretty much need to know exact frame data on a character's common pokes/strings if you want to optimize punishes, there are lots of unreactable high/low mixups that you have to just know about, and there's a lot of studying raw data that isn't really typical or helpful in other games. It's a big part of the reason people consider TTT2 one of the hardest fighters out there.
Welcome to the club!
I hope FG Falcons never realize that Uair is an amazing spacing tool and they actually don't need to approach with unsafe stuff at all.
Most FG Falcons don't even use nair for string-grabs or edgearding, so they probably won't.
Karsticles
Member
The only thing that might make SF harder to get into is special move inputs if you don't have them down. Otherwise, SF is an easy fighting game series. If you want difficulty, play an ASW or Marvel game.I am one of those fools
If I get as into SFV as I am into Smash, I will buy an arcade stick. A Soul Calibur game would make the purchase much easier to handle, though...
Probably won't even have enough time to get into a real fighting game with university
I actually like platforms more with default. Klaw mixups below the stage, yum.
You must have been slow on your reaction. Spot dodge beats Falcon's dash grab.
If he mashes A, drop below the ledge and Uair. Then Fortress back up.
Beat spike attempts by recovering high.
Edit:
Bowser spot dodge FAF is 29.
Falcon dash grab FAF is 38.
No way should he be able to recover before you, even if you spot dodged really late.
Standing grab FAF is 31 though, so you'd have to spot dodge at least 4? 5? frames before he even does it to get a punish. Any later and you just get to guess again.
Falcon's grab isn't as silly as the 29/36/34 or better tiers but it's still really good.
Karsticles
Member
Ah, standing grab makes more sense.
I wouldn't spot dodge in that situation, though. Bowser has 4 frames of startup on his spot dodge. Might as well Fortress at 6 frames.
Even better, pivot grab the opponent in that situation.
User 73706
Banned
Pichu
Nice try, but Pichu in Melee evolved to the Pikachu in Brawl and 4, ergo Ganondorf has a bad MU against Pichu.
User 73706
Banned
Dead / Released Melee-era Wild Pikachu
Wait, is he Ganon tier again?
Actually, who's supposed to be bottom tier this time around?
Zelda and Mii Sword Fighter are the lowest of the low usually, but I disagree with both being there.
With the patches, and game's early phase is still hard to determine who is the very worst, but people usually mention Zelda, Mii Swordfighter, or Charizard.
What? Nope.
In vanilla people used to think he was one of the worst characters.
Before the patches he got shit on hardcore.
I really cant see a worse character than Zelda, even though her new up smash is fantastic
Probably my top 5 worst no customs are Zelda, Ganon, Robin, Link, Lucina
Would've included G&W but evo really opened my eyes to him.
And for reference I'd put Samus really close to that top 5
Probably my top 5 worst no customs are Zelda, Ganon, Robin, Link, Lucina
Would've included G&W but evo really opened my eyes to him.
And for reference I'd put Samus really close to that top 5
I don't know what those people were on, but now that he has one of the best kill throws in the game he's not even close to the bottom. His neutral was always solid, his landing punishes are outrageous, Utilt is a really strong anti-air and flamethrower is one of the best edgeguarding tools in the game.
I seriously don't understand how anyone ever thought he was bad, especially compared to other heavies like Bowser and Ganondorf.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
I have no idea why people thought and still think Charizard is bad.
And I wish we had Ryu's Japanese voice as an option.
And I wish we had Ryu's Japanese voice as an option.
Yeah Charizard has always been good, and now he's great. He needs an ftilt buff, because it's redudant with down tilt.
Speaking of heavies, they need to rework their smash attacks, the huge knockback is never worth how unreliable they are. At least one needs to be relatively safe on shield, they're already easy targets to quick guys.
There's no reason I can't punish Pikachu's fsmash, that still kills pretty good.
Speaking of heavies, they need to rework their smash attacks, the huge knockback is never worth how unreliable they are. At least one needs to be relatively safe on shield, they're already easy targets to quick guys.
There's no reason I can't punish Pikachu's fsmash, that still kills pretty good.
I don't know why people thought Charizard was bad, I haven't played it, and a friend that mains him does pretty good with it, I am just saying what people normally mention as the worst.
Also Robin isn't THAT bad Boney, not bottom 5 at least.
GIVE IT YOUR ALL
Also Robin isn't THAT bad Boney, not bottom 5 at least.
GIVE IT YOUR ALL
He's decent against other mid tiers, but he's pretty helpless against top tiers. Arc fire has too much start up and end lag and it has ammo. Thunder is cool by having 4 different projectiles but takes too long to charge. Nosferatu is cool for mix ups but range is too short. Elwind is a bad recovery move, bad hitboxes and can actually leave you hanging.
Normals are decent, bronze sword has way too little reach and it's especially clear with his tilts that aren't very good. Levin Sword could use some extra knockback buffs, especially fair. But having to deal with all the nuisances that don't make up for his strengths really cut him short.
Normals are decent, bronze sword has way too little reach and it's especially clear with his tilts that aren't very good. Levin Sword could use some extra knockback buffs, especially fair. But having to deal with all the nuisances that don't make up for his strengths really cut him short.
It's not really redundant, it's disjointed so it has it's uses.
I'll play nnid Juni08
Neat. Im Elider.
Okay I'll host join when you're ready.
Yeah, but i'd love to see it being able to kill near the ledge at high % dtilt has more killing power and that doesn't need to be sweetspotted.
It can kill at high percents near the ledge though? After 110% it'll kill near the ledge. Also pivot forward tilts are pretty decent too.
That was fun! Thanks for playing!
Anyways, anybody wanna play?
And yeah, I use it a lot, pivots, and the disjoints, but it's the one move that I can see Zard being tweaked around
I suppose you have more Zard experience, but dtilt will kill at 110-120%. While ftilt if gonna kill at 120-130%. I'd like it if had some better knockback growth and killed a little earlier.
And yeah, I use it a lot, pivots, and the disjoints, but it's the one move that I can see Zard being tweaked around
Wyndstryker
Member
Speaking of that. Want me to upload a video where I use phantom to stop a sheik bouncing fish recovery, and while they're still stuck in the phantom, spike them?
You still here?
Yup (Sena).
Problem is, I'm playing Bowser here. I know Falcon is basically down to running grab/bair for approaches most of the time, but the dash grab is so fast it's really difficult to react to. The only supposedly "safe" move Bowser has is jabs - and I have to guess when he's going to do the dash grab and throw them out beforehand because it's so fast... Falcon can take a 50/50 and see if he can run between them and get the dash grab anyway. Or he can short/full hop towards me and force me to move back rather than attempt to deal with him in the air. From the air he can easily bait a usmash and punish, and because he's in control of his air speed vs me having to predict, utilt or jumping is unlikely to work in my favor. But there's only so much stage to work with. Anyway, I know how the matchup has to be played, but I was really feeling the lack of options last night.
It was standing grab. I don't spot dodge that much, but I did there as a mixup, and because I predicted the grab. It didn't help. It's not just spot dodge frames - it's how many frames it takes to act with an attack or movement after the spot dodge too... This particular guy was pretty good about shielding or avoiding and punishing my fortresses.
But yeah, I should have done a fair/uair when he was holding A above the ledge rather than trying to get up. Didn't think of it at the time for some reason, probably the pressure of his play getting to me.
Add me as well.
NNID is Birathen
I'll be on tomorrow again.
If any other euro gaf wants just go ahead and add me as well. I'm not very good but every once in a while I manage to bring my A game.
Karsticles
Member
Reading this, I don't think you are handling the matchup right in general.
If your opponent is in the air, Usmash is almost never your best option. You save Usmash for the hard read or the bait. Nair is your best option, because it usually beats spot dodges. If you get a full hit, it is 20% tacked on. Plus you get to be mobile instead of hoping your opponent lands on you like an idiot.
In footsies with Captain Falcon, you must be aggressive after learning how he moves. Throwing out safe jabs won't win games. We are past the point where Falcon will help you by running into jabs. Instead, throw the jab out and see what he does. Does he shield? Roll back? Jump?
Whatever he does, the next time you are in the neutral, you need to counter his feint. If he runs up an shields, don't jab. Run up and grab instead.
If he rolls back, run into him as he runs in, and nail him as he roll recovers.
If he jumps, I like to run in and shield under him. Catch him with Fortress. If he jumps a second time, jump cancel your shield into Nair.
Bowser is all about reads. It is all he has. You can't win by turtling (har har) or going all out offense against smart opponents. You need to use his weight to make calculated risks.
Every player has habits. Even the best players here. The last time we did Bowser mirrors, the reason I won was because I learned that you will go aggressive through impatience if you feel cornered. So I always let you attack first, and I countered. Nothing is perfect in the land of hard reads, but it is the necessary game a Bowser main has to play.
Sonic is the same way. Let him Spindash all he wants. What does he do AFTER you block Spindash? That is where your attention needs to be. Does he spin back (Fortress)? Does he jump cancel (Nair)? Does he Homing Dash (Spot Dodge)? Everyone has stuff they like to do with their character. Bowser is bulky enough that he gets to make the necessary mistakes to learn those habits.
Wyndstryker
Member
Anyone up for a few matches?