NamikazeBurst
Member
Good games. Good thing I watch tournaments, or else I would not have known that the blue Pikmin kills with throws.
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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U DLC |OT2| Lucas comes out of Nowhere!
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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Karsticles
Member
Two more.
If every character were on this tier, I would keep playing. Good times.
My rest punishes are awful.
Damn it, so close to a comeback.
That Peach's Castle had me laughing so hard. What an awful stage. Probably took a few hours to make, too.
Good games man. Thanks for the proper sendoff.
If every character were on this tier, I would keep playing. Good times.
My rest punishes are awful.
Damn it, so close to a comeback.
That Peach's Castle had me laughing so hard. What an awful stage. Probably took a few hours to make, too.
Good games man. Thanks for the proper sendoff.
Good games. I was in a similar mood until a few days ago. I had stopped playing Smash 4 for a couple weeks, was starting to catch up on other games for a change. Felt like I'd lost the spirit that kept me going with this game. I've never gotten into the competitive side of a game quite like Smash 4, where it consumed me - participating in the GAF community thread, joining Smashboards, monitoring Reddit's /r/smashbros, watching videos, reading guides, watching tournaments as they were streamed and archived videos afterwards... The closest I've come to this was maybe for about a month during the Starcraft 2 beta, where I was watching Day9's Starcraft 2 replay analysis and playing the game a lot. I was never any good at RTS's though, my competitive aspirations with SC2 were done by the time the beta ended. I'm playing Smash 4 again, but it's different.
Whether it's that I'm not good enough, that I don't have enough time or am distracted with other things in my life, or that I simply play mid/low tier characters, I'm just not going to get where I hoped to in Smash 4. I tried to fix that last one, trying out Sheik and ZSS a bit. But my combos are sloppy, and good Sheik play requires playing the game at a speed I find exhausting and hard to maintain. And it's not really that satisfying. When I get a good hit with Bowser, that's fucking satisfying.
My theory about the Smash series is there are more mind-games - people play games with their opponents, act like assholes to their opponents in a way you can't do in any other fighting game. Even getting perfected against in a Street Fighter style game doesn't feel as bad as getting styled on and taken advantage of by a higher tier character's combos. I was sick of being grabbed by a Falcon without enough time to react, getting hit by 4+ pummels because if I struggle my character has a good chance of SD'ing, getting thrown off stage and dunked by his dair, or get back on and get grabbed again. I'm sick of a lot of things. There's a sequence of events many good players use that takes advantage of the character I use to do something to me. It really hurts when these things happen - the way the game is played, the way characters are controlled, the taunts, etc, makes it somehow more personal. It's demoralizing.
I'm also pretty annoyed that Charizard has gotten a couple rounds of buffs while Bowser was left almost the same besides a small buff to his utilt. Charizard has a fucking combo off his dthrow now. He's better than Bowser for sure. He has a better OOS option with his up b as far as I'm concerned too. I'm happy for Charizard players, really. But it doesn't do much for me, I don't really like Charizard. With the end of customs and negligible buffs coming in the patches, the limit of Bowser appears to be having some fun on for glory. I don't know why the rule in fighting games tends to be that the slow, methodical character is never good. Outside of that one guy in that Persona game, I hear. I haven't played it.
Anyway, I'm slowly backing away from Smash 4 myself. I'll play it more casually now, since I'm done attempting to get much better. There are things I'm really good at, things where I'm in the 99.something percentile, I'm going to put that "I want to be the very best" spirit towards that instead. Might even get paid for it too. Anyway Karst, you're an OG here, it's been good playing you and playing 2v2's together over some of these months. Let's see if future patches help things, but in the meantime we're certainly not obliged to play games we ultimately find dissatisfaction with. Maybe I'll try SF5 when it comes out. I'd love a new Soul Calibur, but until then something will have to do. Or maybe I'll prioritize single player games more.
See ya around eh!
Karsticles
Member
I feel you, man.
The patch patch changed a lot of stuff, though. WFT, Lucina, and Marth got massive buffs. It's just the characters we play that are largely ignored. I don't know why Charizard got such an amazing throw buff when Bowser should have the good throws. /shrug Here's to hoping he gets more love in the future. You were pretty amazing at using the utilt. Were you jump-canceling that somehow, or just dropping shield?
I also feel very demoralized. It has sucked learning three characters that all have serious problems that prevent them from winning in a serious setting. I'll be buying SFV; if you're inclined to get it, I'll see you there.
Edit: Oh, and the Persona character you are thinking of is Kanji. He's not like Bowser, though. Yeah, he's a grappler, but he has the equivalent of a full-screen tracking Thunder (Pikachu down B), and he can send his Persona out to grapple for him so he's not at risk. Persona is a fun game, though. Give it a try.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
I'll miss you guys, you were both the best Bowsers I've played!
Please drop by from time to time, we'll always have a spot for you especially when Wolf comes.
Please drop by from time to time, we'll always have a spot for you especially when Wolf comes.
Karsticles
Member
We can't both be the best, Captain.I'll miss you guys, you were both the best Bowsers I've played!
Please drop by from time to time, we'll always have a spot for you especially when Wolf comes.
I think Cronoc has surpassed me in the ledge game, but I have the advantage in the neutral.
I feel you, man.
The patch patch changed a lot of stuff, though. WFT, Lucina, and Marth got massive buffs. It's just the characters we play that are largely ignored. I don't know why Charizard got such an amazing throw buff when Bowser should have the good throws. /shrug Here's to hoping he gets more love in the future. You were pretty amazing at using the utilt. Were you jump-canceling that somehow, or just dropping shield?
I also feel very demoralized. It has sucked learning three characters that all have serious problems that prevent them from winning in a serious setting. I'll be buying SFV; if you're inclined to get it, I'll see you there.
Edit: Oh, and the Persona character you are thinking of is Kanji. He's not like Bowser, though. Yeah, he's a grappler, but he has the equivalent of a full-screen tracking Thunder (Pikachu down B), and he can send his Persona out to grapple for him so he's not at risk. Persona is a fun game, though. Give it a try.
I was just dropping shield into utilt. It's not that I was doing it that fast, but that I ran into your attack+powershielded, screwing up your spacing so the utilt would hit. I like utilt, though coverage in the front is still suspect. If only every move was given the same patch treatment utilt got... Too bad that playing against jigglypuff screws up the possible (though completely un-guaranteed) followups outside of incredibly low percents. Jiggs screws up Sheik's fair combos also. Though I'll give your DI/air-dodging some credit too. You like my attempt to space bair's against your Jigglypuff? I was surprised how often you were able to hit me either before fair came out or somehow outprioritizing it, so I switched to bair. It's similar to the Yoshi matchup, where at least bair will trade favorably with Yoshi's fair. Far as I'm concerned, Bowser having an autocancel short hop bair and his utilt stacks the matchup against Jiggs.
In the Mewtwo/Bowser matches I punished you pretty hard for letting go of the ledge to try to aerial me (best believe I saved the match where I spiked you twice). Funny cause I almost never do that, and you do it a bit too much. It's one of those things where I can see the wheels turning as you hang on the ledge, so I had a good idea of what was coming.
Re: Persona- the thing with games like this is, I feel like I need to get in when they launch, otherwise I'll play catchup forever. So I feel like it's too late for Persona/SF IV/Mahvel (not that I want to play that one). Though I'm not in the beta, if I can get in on the ground floor with SF V and find a character I like playing I'll probably give it a go. As long as my PC can handle it.
As for who's better, even if I beat your Bowser more often than not tonight, in general you've always been a bit better than me in the neutral as you say. I play as aggressively as I feel my opponent allows me to, and sometimes more... I think you've earned the higher accolades from random people playing you here. Probably the best compliments I got were from when I played Namikaze and he was unfamiliar with custom Bowser. He wasn't dealing with my aggression well, and I got some pretty satisfying spikes on him. But these things never last, people eventually see patterns.
I think I know why you like Jigglypuff, it's the same reason I do - With Jigglypuff I feel like I'm in control of the match. I decide the approach, the timing. The opponent has to react to my spacing, they basically have to do what Bowser does the whole match. It's nice to change the roles up sometimes.
@CRQ I'm not out yet, but I'm probably going to satisfy myself mostly playing for glory for the time being.
Karsticles
Member
Can Jigglypuff get out of Luigi's dthrow, down special chain?
The bairs you did were great. I had to be a lot more careful. Bowser's fair is crazy slow - 11 frame startup.
Mewtwo is so bad at recovering. I think it's the thing that gets me killed the most. Teleport sucks, he's floaty with bad jumps on trying to get on the stage, and all of his aerials have bad defensive priority. I haven't played a non-shit Bowser in ages, so I had some really bad habits there.
Well, if you pick up the next BlazBlue or Persona, I'll pick it up with you if you want to learn together.
Part of it is that my heart just isn't in Bowser anymore. I'll pick him for the quick curb stomp in For Glory, but I'm just not happy using him anymore. I hate that he's always on the bad side of a guessing game by default.
Also, you should side B to Fortress when facing the wrong way during recovery!
I just love aerial characters in general. In every fighting game I play, I play a character with lots of space control and good aerial maneuverability. Bowser is NOT my typical kind of character. The only ever time I've mained a grappler is Tager in Blazblue, and only because I couldn't IAD at the time, Tager didn't have an air dash, so I felt like I wouldn't be held back by him (he also has an amazing theme song).
MvC2 I mained Sentinel.
Skullgirls I main Painwheel.
Marvel I main Dormammu (Firebrand/Dormammu/Shuma-Gorath, but I also like Morrigan and Phoenix a LOT).
Guilty Gear Xrd I main Zato.
That's kind of why Smash 4 is coming to SFIV status for me - no characters that are fun for me to play except for Jigglypuff, and Jigglypuff just has so many problems that it's hard to focus on just her. The Rosalina matchup feels goddamn impossible.
If they lowered shield regen, made Rest always star KO, gave her Fair higher BKB (0 KBG would be amazing), gave Bair more KBG, and made her hurtbox a little smaller, I think she would be perfect, and I would happily play her forever. Rest could be made stronger, too, but it's not my main issue with her.
Not sure, I so rarely encounter Luigi players... Bair is 9 IIRC, you'd think 2 frames wouldn't make a huge difference, but that and the huge priority bair has really helps. Edit: Charizard's fair is frame 8, probably explains why that was more successful against Jiggs in the few matches I played him.
Well, if you pick up the next BlazBlue or Persona, I'll pick it up with you if you want to learn together.
Ha with Blazblue they'll have to get their shit together on the PC releases. One arcade stick bought on sale for $130 was enough for me, and it only connects to my PC or an Xbox 360. Not that I have the current gen MS/Sony consoles anyway. I find the Persona characters to be a bit too weird for me, judging from watching the EVO finals.
Yeah I got that :/
I'm usually the one that gives this advice, but against Jigglypuff's offstage pressure I often didn't feel like I had the time. You often caught me with a fair right as I used my second jump, so making it back at all was the priority. Don't think I got punished for it all that much if I recall...
I look back fondly on Tager, though I have no idea what he plays like since Continuum Shift. Honestly, I had never been that much into 2D fighting games before that. Partly because my best friend was my primary competition and he did better at Soul Calibur. Blazblue may have been a fluke - finding a character I really liked, having generally great online netcode on a console most people had to connect through a wired connection (360) so I had people to play with.
Ha Rosalina is pretty ridiculous, yeah. Bowser has such trouble approaching her. Too bad Jigglypuff isn't a bit more like her Melee self in this game. Though I'll say I think her bair is alright. What she needs is what every lower tier character needs - throw followups. Throw in rest setups, more reliable wall of pain abilities, take off the stupid "shield break = death" thing, make pound beat everything like it should, buff uair (speed/damage) and Jiggs is alright.
Hope you guys still chime in on discussions and drop for friendlies here. I'm not an overly serious fighting game player. SFII was one of my first games ever and I love the SF series, jut sadly I'm only mid level there, never connected my 360 online and when I got a ps3 I found out SFIV ran horribly online. SFIII was a lot better but i never played that one back in the day so it was hard catching up with 10+ years of experience.
Smash is my shit, I'll play entire afternoons with my brother. Smash 4 sold me on the Wii U and I've spent a ridiculous amount of time in it. I know the struggle of playing bad characters. Samus is broken and worthless in many ways, but I still find the game super fun regardless.
So c'ya around guys!
Oh and regarding WFT: in my opinion she has the best charge projectile in the game. Sure it's not as powerful as others, but charges faster, can be charged airborne, heals you (2% now is fantastic). Doesn't have recovery frames on full charge and not much recovery while shooting, it's also pretty spammable. The thing is, she has certain quirks to playing her that sort of balanced her out. She gets two awesome projectiles, but her normals are quirky and have very specific hitboxes. You really need to understand her to get some mileage. But those quirks don't limit her if you know what you're doing like say with Mewtwo. She's been blessed with great buffs this time around, her tilts are great, jab is great, smashes got fixed and has great aerials. She needs a better grab game to be high tier but she's a really solid character but her limitation for the charge shot (which isn't so strong although deep breathing lol) is short normals.
Smash is my shit, I'll play entire afternoons with my brother. Smash 4 sold me on the Wii U and I've spent a ridiculous amount of time in it. I know the struggle of playing bad characters. Samus is broken and worthless in many ways, but I still find the game super fun regardless.
So c'ya around guys!
Oh and regarding WFT: in my opinion she has the best charge projectile in the game. Sure it's not as powerful as others, but charges faster, can be charged airborne, heals you (2% now is fantastic). Doesn't have recovery frames on full charge and not much recovery while shooting, it's also pretty spammable. The thing is, she has certain quirks to playing her that sort of balanced her out. She gets two awesome projectiles, but her normals are quirky and have very specific hitboxes. You really need to understand her to get some mileage. But those quirks don't limit her if you know what you're doing like say with Mewtwo. She's been blessed with great buffs this time around, her tilts are great, jab is great, smashes got fixed and has great aerials. She needs a better grab game to be high tier but she's a really solid character but her limitation for the charge shot (which isn't so strong although deep breathing lol) is short normals.
Shamrock7r
Member
Does this mean I am the best Mewtwo on here now? =(
Professor Beef
Banned
Default, the two sweetest words in the English language!
Karsticles
Member
Have you beaten Thulius? He was always a step above me.
I will still post.
I think that characters can succeed by either having great grab games, or great shield pressure games. Jigglypuff, for example, doesn't need good grabs because she has Pound. Shields are just too strong right now, though.
Can you imagine if Mewtwo healed 2% with every Shadow Ball? God.
That is great! Are you pleased with yourself?
Have you beaten Thulius? He was always a step above me.
I will still post.
I think that characters can succeed by either having great grab games, or great shield pressure games. Jigglypuff, for example, doesn't need good grabs because she has Pound. Shields are just too strong right now, though.
Can you imagine if Mewtwo healed 2% with every Shadow Ball? God.
That is great! Are you pleased with yourself?
Yea I think we did pretty well. We also beat raptor and mr. E as well before that last set. Was hoping to get up to 9th in singles as well since I think I could've done well against mik! and raptor in singles, but 25th out of 700+ is still pretty solid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8rpifNUEYo
Very informative video that should make everyone feel a little bit better about their (in)ability to tech stage spikes.
Well...
Very informative video that should make everyone feel a little bit better about their (in)ability to tech stage spikes.
Well...
Karsticles
Member
I have a 0% tech rate no matter how far I am. :-(
Congratulations!!
Still can't believe that teching things while standing is a thing. So moronic
This explains a lot, thanks. At least now I know I didn't miss time my techs when I got stage spiked near a wall in the past.
I clutched this match against a Ness yesterday by trying to Spike him while he was recovering, getting hit by PK2 ( I was already at 160%) and tetching at the ledge while the Ness couldn't reach it.
Felt good man.
NamikazeBurst
Member
Welp, CRQ, you were right. I just fought a Captain Falcon that 3 stocked and then 2 stocked me on Anther's. He was able to punish everything, shield everything, and get out jabs, rolls, and uairs without me being able to do a thing.
Sad to see you are leaving, Karsticles. This thread seems to be less active then ever before, and now it will never be the same. We just got the last big update to the game, the only thing left is new characters and stages. I have a feeling once the one year anniversary comes around, there won't be much left of this community.
Sad to see you are leaving, Karsticles. This thread seems to be less active then ever before, and now it will never be the same. We just got the last big update to the game, the only thing left is new characters and stages. I have a feeling once the one year anniversary comes around, there won't be much left of this community.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Now you know lol.
Yeah at this rate SmashGAF will probably just be like 15 peeps eternally playing each other while we get random passersby every month or so. Hopefully we get another new character like Wolf to revive it again, but I think we're hitting the point where only players who really want to dedicate themselves to the game are left.
Well, it was a ton of fun while it lasted at least.
And I'm sure it'll be a ton of fun after the fact too!Karsticles
Member
A Captain Falcon 3-stocked your Yoshi? I wouldn't have pegged that as bad for Yoshi. Though Captain Falcon is probably the most frustrating online matchup. The running dashes are so hard to react to with input lag.
I'm not "leaving", I'll still post here and say hi. I'm just taking a break from the game. The thread is going through a typical post-Evo lull.
The last update was pretty weak. No new characters, and all that. The thread will be revitalized every time character DLC drops. If Sakurai ever pulls his head out of his ass and fixes Tourneys and Tournaments, this place will be more active than ever.
Doubt it. Those are probably the people the least likely to regularly play here.
NamikazeBurst
Member
I just told CRQ the other day it was manageable. I thought it was in Falcon's favour, but definitely doable. Well, the Falcon I played was on a whole new level compared to the previous ones I have fought. He was Gold I on Anther's so I knew he was good, but I wasn't expecting that big of a loss.
I know you'll still post here, but I doubt it will be as much. Right now you're the top poster according to my phone (which was wrong last time), and I don't see you putting as much effort into this thread if you aren't going to play, and if you don't enjoy the game when you do play.
Yeah, the last update sucked. It had the last promised new modes, and they ended up being shit and didn't help at all. This is why I said all we can expect is new characters and stages from now on. Stages aren't going to help, so the DLC characters will need to be good to get people back into this game.
I feel this is kinda true. While I play this game a ton, and ask for matches here quite a bit, the last match I had on Anther's just proved that it isn't the most effective form of practice. Ok, I have lots of practice against good Sonics, Rosalina, Ness, Bowsers, Mega Man, Shulk, and Samus. But that isn't good enough, especially when only 3 of those are high tier characters. Playing against the same people can only take someone so far.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Gosh darn it guys, I'm trying to be optimistic.
Though I kinda admit I'm guilty of going outside to get more practice too. Playing you guys is fun and all but there's 52 characters in the game and only so few of us. :/
I'm trying to rectify this by learning Shiek, but still.
Gosh darn it guys, I'm trying to be optimistic.
Though I kinda admit I'm guilty of going outside to get more practice too. Playing you guys is fun and all but there's 52 characters in the game and only so few of us. :/
What I'm saying is that I actually don't think this community's playerbase is small at all, but I don't think the point that it's the most competitive ones who are sticking around is correct. Like you say, you're also one of the people who will tend to play more through other venues than through this thread. The people who play the most here won't be that type of player.
NamikazeBurst
Member
Gosh darn it guys, I'm trying to be optimistic.
Though I kinda admit I'm guilty of going outside to get more practice too. Playing you guys is fun and all but there's 52 characters in the game and only so few of us. :/
I'm trying to rectify this by learning Shiek, but still.
I don't blame you. I plan on eventually going to my locals. Doesn't mean I will stop playing here. If I stop playing here, it likely means I am done with the game. I don't see that happening for a long time, though.
Aren't there more than 52 characters now?
Main reason I play here so often is that's pretty much my only access to good players. The closes tourneys are hours away, and even the biggest ones are absolutely not worth going to.
That horrible tourney I was at recently was a once off, and while I did fairly well against some of Irelands top players it's still not worth driving to the other side of the country for it. Not with the way my health is right now anyway
That horrible tourney I was at recently was a once off, and while I did fairly well against some of Irelands top players it's still not worth driving to the other side of the country for it. Not with the way my health is right now anyway
I feel like I've reached a skill plateau where I need to devote a lot of time to the game in order to get marginally better at best, and it honestly isn't worth it to be stuck practicing day and night when I could be doing other stuff.
I was probably staving off that boredom by picking up different characters, but now I've realized that no matter what I do it doesn't take all that long until my skill plateaus with that new character and I'm back to feeling unhappy with my lack of progress relative to the amount of time I devote to the game.
This tournament I'll be attending to might either revive my interest in the game or make me give up on it for a while. Honestly, this is exactly the same thing that happened to me with Team Fortress 2, only TF2 lasted me over two years of playing a couple of times per week.
Edit: Talking about this thread, I'd say SmashGAF is my only source of decent matches. I haven't looked all that much, but you guys are in the perfect spot where neither player wins by a landslide, which makes things a lot more interesting. I guess I'll have to wait and see how the local scene is in the next tourney, since I didn't know about its existence until I decided to look up "Argentina SSB" on Facebook.
I was probably staving off that boredom by picking up different characters, but now I've realized that no matter what I do it doesn't take all that long until my skill plateaus with that new character and I'm back to feeling unhappy with my lack of progress relative to the amount of time I devote to the game.
This tournament I'll be attending to might either revive my interest in the game or make me give up on it for a while. Honestly, this is exactly the same thing that happened to me with Team Fortress 2, only TF2 lasted me over two years of playing a couple of times per week.
Edit: Talking about this thread, I'd say SmashGAF is my only source of decent matches. I haven't looked all that much, but you guys are in the perfect spot where neither player wins by a landslide, which makes things a lot more interesting. I guess I'll have to wait and see how the local scene is in the next tourney, since I didn't know about its existence until I decided to look up "Argentina SSB" on Facebook.
Karsticles
Member
Goddamn guys, I didn't mean to start an avalanche. :/
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
This could've been avoided. You could've stopped this. You could have chosen
to main Yoshi.
Plus going by the FGW thread you tend to cause a bunch of people to start talking about something when you say a controversial thing.
Ahem.
Oh yeah, forgot about that.
You were the heart of the team, the one that kept us all together.
Who will I send replays to now? :c
Karsticles
Member
Uh, yeah, that is kind of a life habit. I have to put a lot of filters on my mouth so I don't upset my students too much. I went a bit too far last semester when I called a kid a "fake Catholic" for not accepting papal infallibility. I figured FGW would get a riot out of me eating placenta, but it went on for hours.
Why don't you back me up on the two button dash if you are reading?
Just think of it as a small break until the next patch. I am sure a new character will wrap me back in.
Haha, don't worry about it. The reason I've been playing FFA as of late is because I'm already bored of competitive smash, and changing characters only delays the inevitable realization of still not having all the essentials down and the annoyance at how long I'd have to practice to get better at teching, mindgames and adapting my playstyle better.
Heh... I just realized I've come full circle from loving items in 64, to developing a more competitive-minded approach starting with the end of Melee, finally deciding to go full-on competitive for Sm4sh and now am finding the fun of playing with items and crazy stages once again.
I'll play in about 10 minutes. Not sure if I have you added, NNID is Oidisco