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[Shamrock7r]

Pardon me for asking since I'm sure you have explained this before, but what is your logic for placing Yoshi's grab so high? Does he have really good followups or something?

It's 1 am over here and I've been doing a lot of reading up on Magic so I might not be all there mentally lol.

We are speaking more on the ability to grab than the actual throws. At least I am. Lucas' throws are fine and dandy... if you can actually grab the opponent. As far as the ease of grabbing an opponent, only Pac rates lower than Lucas amongst the tether characters

Also Olimar would be considered a tether grab and it is pretty good and safe.

 

[Karsticles]

That's absurd. You judge the value of a throw by its overall value. It's like saying you're only going to rate an attack by how easy it is to land, and not how hard it hits. It makes no sense. You judge attacks by their overall ability to contribute to a character's prowess.

It's terrible.



LOL god no man.
Tell me why Toon Link and Link's tether grab is worse? They come out around the same speed (might even be quicker actually), and they both have better range and have less end lag.
I can maaaaybe see Samus' being equal to Lucas but no way is it worse. I has a tone more range albeit it comes out slightly slower. I still give it the edge.

You're delusional. Lucas gets combos AND kills off of his throw. Samus gets nothing even at mid %. She takes a massive risk for nothing. Ditto for Link and Toon Link.

Lucas' grab comes out on the same frame as Link's, and it recovers faster:
Standing Grab 12-19 56
Dash Grab 14-21 66
Pivot Grab 12-19 66

vs:
Link:
Standing Grab 12-17 62
Dash Grab 14- 66
Pivot Grab 15- 67

Slightly less range is a worthwhile tradeoff for a combo throw that KOs.

Maybe look up the data before making bogus claims. Among the tether grabs, Lucas' is very good.

Holy shit, just look at Samus:
Standing Grab 16-25 80
Dash Grab 16-26 74
Pivot Grab 17-28 94

In what world is that even arguably equivalent to Lucas' grab?

Pardon me for asking since I'm sure you have explained this before, but what is your logic for placing Yoshi's grab so high? Does he have really good followups or something?

It's 1 am over here and I've been doing a lot of reading up on Magic so I might not be all there mentally lol.

Not Yoshi's default grab - that one sucks. His neutral B is still a tether grab, though. It's a tether grab that leads to big damage, KO setups, it can be wavelanded, has AMAZING recovery frames even for a non-tether grab, and it can be used in the air.

 

[Shamrock7r]

That's absurd. You judge the value of a throw by its overall value. It's like saying you're only going to rate an attack by how easy it is to land, and not how hard it hits. It makes no sense. You judge attacks by their overall ability to contribute to a character's prowess.


You're delusional. Lucas gets combos AND kills off of his throw. Samus gets nothing even at mid %. She takes a massive risk for nothing. Ditto for Link and Toon Link.

Lucas' grab comes out on the same frame as Link's, and it recovers faster:
Standing Grab 12-19 56
Dash Grab 14-21 66
Pivot Grab 12-19 66

vs:

Standing Grab 12-17 62
Dash Grab 14- 66
Pivot Grab 15- 67

Slightly less range is a worthwhile tradeoff for a combo throw that KOs.

Maybe look up the data before making bogus claims. Among the tether grabs, Lucas' is very good.

Holy shit, just look at Samus:
Standing Grab 16-25 80
Dash Grab 16-26 74
Pivot Grab 17-28 94

In what world is that even arguably equivalent to Lucas' grab?


Not Yoshi's default grab - that one sucks. His neutral B is still a tether grab, though. It's a tether grab that leads to big damage, KO setups, it can be wavelanded, has AMAZING recovery frames even for a non-tether grab, and it can be used in the air.

The original point of conversation was me saying that Nami shouldn't have trouble with Lucas' throws because his grab is terrible and he shouldn't be getting grabbed. You then said the range was buffed and then listed your best to worst tether grabs with no explanation, so how am I going to assume you are adding throws into the equation? Sure that changes the order of efficiency, but not by a lot because any good player can avoid Lucas' grab pretty consistently

The range of links grab far far outweighs a slight speed in recovery, because it is slight if that's the case.

Youre so worried about numbers but not application. As someone who plays both Lucas and Link regularly, It's incredibly easier to grab with Link

 

[Fandangox]

I FINALLY DID IT


I PLAYED A WHOLE MATCH AS ROY WITHOUT SDING

 

[Karsticles]

I FINALLY DID IT


I PLAYED A WHOLE MATCH AS ROY WITHOUT SDING

Stop ledge diving.

The original point of conversation was me saying that Nami shouldn't have trouble with Lucas' throws because his grab is terrible and he shouldn't be getting grabbed. You then said the range was buffed and then listed your best to worst tether grabs with no explanation, so how am I going to assume you are adding throws into the equation? Sure that changes the order of efficiency, but not by a lot because any good player can avoid Lucas' grab pretty consistently

The range of links grab far far outweighs a slight speed in recovery, because it is slight if that's the case.

Youre so worried about numbers but not application

It isn't just that. Lucas gets combos.

No one can consistently avoid grabs of any kind. Otherwise they could just shield the entire Lucas assault and he would never get a hit in. Realistically, grabs happen.

It's easier to grab with Link because his moveset is better at setting up grabs.

No one can react to Lucas' grab consistently. 14 frames is too fast to do so consistently. 15 is the standard overhead in fighters, and not even the world's best can react to them consistently. I wrote consistently a lot, but I am too tired to change it. Good night.

 

[TWILT]

GGs Fand. Thanks for playing me; I feel so rusty not having played this game properly for 3 full weeks (and just getting back from a tiring flight doesn't help lol.) Oh well, some stuff to practice tomorrow. Fun matches!

 

[Shamrock7r]

Stop ledge diving.


It isn't just that. Lucas gets combos.

No one can consistently avoid grabs of any kind. Otherwise they could just shield the entire Lucas assault and he would never get a hit in. Realistically, grabs happen.

It's easier to grab with Link because his moveset is better at setting up grabs.

Sure, but initially Nami made it sound like he was getting grabbed a lot in the matches, which shouldn't be happening against Lucas

 

[Karsticles]

Sure, but initially Nami made it sound like he was getting grabbed a lot in the matches, which shouldn't be happening against Lucas

I edited my last post.

I dont disagree with you here, though. Especially Yoshi, he is one of the most anti-grab characters in the game. Unless Nami met someone that knows a Yoshi weakness I don't, I think this is like the time Nami had trouble dealing with Mewtwo approaching with short hop Confusion.

Lucas still has a great tether grab.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

I FINALLY DID IT


I PLAYED A WHOLE MATCH AS ROY WITHOUT SDING

Is this your first day playing Roy or something?


Also, Yoshi's neutral B a tether grab? I'd suppose that's one way to refer to it given its properties. Whenever Namikaze gets me with it though he tends to get like one usmash before I break out of it. Often I just sit in the egg while he hits me with an usmash, better to take damage than get killed IMO.

Of course, it's been a while since I've had a serious go with his Yoshi and I actually gave it my all rather than pick secondaries to see who I can beat him with on that particular session, but that's partially my fault and I should stick to Fox more because then I actually benefit from his Endless Kalos curse.

Edit: TWILT your avatars are great.

 

[Shamrock7r]

I edited my last post.

I dont disagree with you here, though. Especially Yoshi, he is one of the most anti-grab characters in the game. Unless Nami met someone that knows a Yoshi weakness I don't, I think this is like the time Nami had trouble dealing with Mewtwo approaching with short hop Confusion.

Lucas still has a great tether grab.

When you look at his grab game as a whole, yea. He has 3 kill moves depending on stage location, and setups early on, but man o man, it is haaaard to grab really good players who know the Lucas matchup. It's the main problem that is preventing him from being a high tier

 

[Fandangox]

Stop ledge diving.

I can't help it, I am a Falcon Main.

GGs Fand. Thanks for playing me; I feel so rusty not having played this game properly for 3 full weeks (and just getting back from a tiring flight doesn't help lol.) Oh well, some stuff to practice tomorrow. Fun matches!

GGs Twilt fun matches indeed

 

[NamikazeBurst]

I guess I just suck since I can't avoid Lucas' grab, and get destroyed in the match-up. I do relatively bad against the ones on FG, too.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

I guess I just suck since I can't avoid Lucas' grab, and get destroyed in the match-up. I do relatively bad against the ones on FG, too.

I recommend either learning the matchup or do what I do; if one character isn't working out so well, try another!

Spoiler

Like Shiek

 

[Fandangox]

Is this your first day playing Roy or something?

Well according to record stats I have less ten 3 hours total playtime with Roy lol

 

[NamikazeBurst]

I recommend either learning the matchup or do what I do; if one character isn't working out so well, try another!

Spoiler

Like Shiek

I have Sheik, Luigi, Yoshi, and DK. ZSS doesn't interest me, although the fact that she can grab the ledge with her tether grab is tempting. Lol at Rosalina. No way for Ness. Nope to Fox. Captain Falcon is overused. Pikachu would never work. I hate Sonic and I am shit with him. Only one left is Mario. I am not even good at tier whoring!

Might as well switch Luigi and Yoshi in terms of main and secondary.

 

[Crayolan]

Ditto for Link and Toon Link.

Toon Link has a kill throw.

 

[Anonymous Tipster]

Edit: Actually, I'll be responsible and go to bed.

 

[SoldnerKei]

that moment when you end up drawing like 1hr on Miiverse Smash Communities instead of posting the pic that took you there in the first place... I wish the canvas and tools were better thou...

Link down throw is a good tool thou, as long as you can read your opponents DI/dodge lulz

one day Link, one day you'll grab people with your Golden Gauntlets... and probably kill them in the process

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Edit: Actually, I'll be responsible and go to bed.

It's times like this I wonder if you're the only one on Pacific time around here.

I should go to bed too.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I guess I just suck since I can't avoid Lucas' grab, and get destroyed in the match-up. I do relatively bad against the ones on FG, too.

Just know where his grab distance actually is and you shouldn't get grabbed as much.

-------------------

I've picked up Mii Swordfighter ever since I learned the Black Knight costume was a thing.

I still main the super heavies though. Especially with the Ganon buffs.

 

[Wyndstryker]

I've begun to get a decent grasp of most matchups. Only matchup that consistantly gives me a ton of trouble now is vs sonic. Everything else I have some answer or process for. I really have no clue how to even hit the bastard properly lol

 

[MagiusNecros]

You have to hope Sonic makes a mistake. Or play Sheik and just throw needles at people.

 

[Booker.DeWitt]

stupid question: I just got the 3ds version of the sSB 3ds and have unlocked a few characters. I bought the wii u version at bestbuy since it was on sale for 35 bucks after GCU.

Can I transfer my unlockable characters from 3ds to wii u or do I have to unlock every single one of them from scratch again?

Also, I used to play with Kirby on SSB brawl and I noticed it is weaker and sucky on this new version. Am I going crazy or I am just rusty? Is kirby a good character?


Which ones do you recommend that have an easier learning curve and are somewhat good? I have not played SSB in years and I am not the best player to begin with.

thanks

 

[MagiusNecros]

The way characters are unlocked on 3ds and wii u is different.

Look up a guide.

 

[Booker.DeWitt]

The way characters are unlocked on 3ds and wii u is different.

Look up a guide.

I know, so I guess I have to start from scratch.

Any opinion on my other question, about kirby ?

 

[backlot]

I don't know how good Kirby was in Brawl but he's a solid mid tier character in Smash 4.

 

[MagiusNecros]

All the Kirby characters are excellent.

Kirby himself is well rounded imo.

 

[EvilMario]

Kirby's crouch alone is worth mentioning among the best utilities in the game.

And of course Dedede's crouch is the best taunt in the game.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Wario is beautiful

 

[Wyndstryker]

Wow just had a match against a rosalina and practically denied the luma from existing through most of the match.

I think the luma was alive for at most 25 seconds of the match.

 

[Fandangox]

Speaking of matches in FG, Had a match against a Falcon in FG who had no idea what they were doing, literally only managed to land one hit

Spoiler

A Falcon Punch

 

[NamikazeBurst]

Had to play two Mega Mans on Anther's. I thought I knew the match-up, but it turns out I just know Tipster. I still won, but they were completely different matches than Tipster vs. me, and it threw me off a lot.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Hi everyone!

Starting to get into this, and I'm looking to up my level of play - nothing too crazy (not going to EVO or anything) but looking to slowly start picking up competitive gameplay tactics for online play, etc.

The characters I'm looking at (for now) are Greninja and Roy. Any specific YouTube channels or other stuff I should be checking out? I am reading some guides on SmashBoards and I'm following Zero on YouTube (he had some cool videos on Roy).

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide

 

[NamikazeBurst]

Anyone want to play? I got back to rank 50 on Anther's so I am done there for now.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Anyone want to play? I got back to rank 50 on Anther's so I am done there for now.

I'm up for a few.

Edit: Who's making the room? I had one up, but I'm not sure if yours was at the same time or what.

 

[NamikazeBurst]

I'm up for a few.

Edit: Who's making the room? I had one up, but I'm not sure if yours was at the same time or what.

Sorry for the wait. I was on FG and then had a phone call.

 

[Shamrock7r]

You two wanna alt 1v1s for a few? Gotta leave in a bit but I want to play a few matches

 

[NamikazeBurst]

I am fine with it.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

You two wanna alt 1v1s for a few? Gotta leave in a bit but I want to play a few matches

How does that work? Winner stays, I'm assuming?

 

[Shamrock7r]

How does that work? Winner stays, I'm assuming?

Alternate playing 2 in a row. For example, now I play the next 2 and one of you sits out 1. It is always 2 on, 1 off

 

[Shamrock7r]

So now Nami plays, and regardless if I win or lose, Nami plays the game after too against Flux

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Yikes.

 

[Oidisco]

Hi everyone!

Starting to get into this, and I'm looking to up my level of play - nothing too crazy (not going to EVO or anything) but looking to slowly start picking up competitive gameplay tactics for online play, etc.

The characters I'm looking at (for now) are Greninja and Roy. Any specific YouTube channels or other stuff I should be checking out? I am reading some guides on SmashBoards and I'm following Zero on YouTube (he had some cool videos on Roy).

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide

For Greninja I'd recomend playing Snacks. He plays here regularly and has a great Greninja, so I'm sure he could help you out with a few things. You should also watch Amsa use him.

I don't really know about Roy to be honest. I was gonna main him, but I prefer the way Marth feels so I stuck with him instead. Smashboards would be your best bet with Roy since I don't realy know of any top level players that use him regularly. I guess for now you could just try out training mode and use it as an opportunity to figure out basic setups and combos.

 

[Shamrock7r]

ggs guys, thanks for letting me join in

 

[Karsticles]

Toon Link has a kill throw.

Yes he does, but it's situational. Not as good as Lucas.

 

[NamikazeBurst]

ggs guys, thanks for letting me join in

Ggs. Thanks for wrecking us.

 

[cdyhybrid]

For Greninja I'd recomend playing Snacks. He plays here regularly and has a great Greninja, so I'm sure he could help you out with a few things. You should also watch Amsa use him.

I don't really know about Roy to be honest. I was gonna main him, but I prefer the way Marth feels so I stuck with him instead. Smashboards would be your best bet with Roy since I don't realy know of any top level players that use him regularly. I guess for now you could just try out training mode and use it as an opportunity to figure out basic setups and combos.

Yeah, I've just been messing around in Training and playing against CPUs to get the feel for the characters. I can beat level 7 CPUs pretty consistently now after a short night of playing.

I've watched some aMSa videos, but I don't really know what to look for. He's moving so fast that it's hard for me to keep up.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

ggs guys, thanks for letting me join in

GGs. I can hang with your Lucas using WFT, but not against Ness yet.

 

[Shamrock7r]

GGs. I can hang with your Lucas using WFT, but not against Ness yet.

Youre the best WFT I've played.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Youre the best WFT I've played.

Ha, if only that actually meant I could win consistently against you with her. She's fun to use, though, so I keep playing her and improving.