Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Alright, home from work. Time to buy and try out Cloud this evening. Seems like Wario and Dedede once again remain untouched by the latest patch.
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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U DLC |OT2| Lucas comes out of Nowhere!
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
NamikazeBurst
Member
I would never give up Yoshi. Just as another secondary, even if his benefit isn't great. I play DK but I can't really think of any matchups DK does better in than Yoshi.
I really like how blue Mewtwo looks, so that is another reason for me to try him out again.
Maybe I should just be the ditto master? I have been playing Ness recently, so that is stealing Shamrock's main, and playing Mewtwo would be stealing yours.
Duck Hunt shouldn't have a kill throw.
Without customs, he definitely should (or perhaps a nair with a smaller sourspot). Even if it's like 200%. He has no actual kill setups without customs, he has to rely only on reads, and it gets worse to set those up if the opponent gains rage and can instead flip the tables on you.
I definitely think without customs Duck Hunt is around bottom 7 in the game.
Sounds like we play Cloud pretty similar, I definitely agree, plus with his hurtboxes being so close to him, his sword range "feels" shorter making him feel closer to a Brawler-type character. Jumping around using his fast movement to find as many opportunities to charge Limit Break is going to be his bread and butter.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
All I'm getting out of this is "I can't wait to play Dr. Mario because CRQ is the best Sm4sh player in the universe"
SolarKnight
Member
Yeah, Duck Hunt needs SOMETHING. Right now they're more of a damage racking annoyance than anything.
Re: Cloud
Personally I think he's pretty fun, but just ok overall. He doesn't suck but I don't see him going high in the tier list at the moment.
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Anyone else got big startup loadtimes now? It takes like 10 seconds before the intro movie starts playing and 20 seconds to go from the "press start" menu to the game modes.
It's been that way for a while now.
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Ah, good to know it isn't just me. I was getting afraid my HDD might be dying or something. Don't want to lose my smash save
Karsticles
Member
Huh? He's pretty heavy.
Cloud is definitely the most stiff, followed by Roy.
Second best at all of them, including picking a main.
I don't see the big deal with needing a read to kill. How many characters don't?
Kills Ryu at ~95%. SO GOOD.
Did this so much yesterday. I'm terrible though.
Love Cloud so far. Would love more music and more Midgar summons in a perfect world, of course
I don't think it's too out there to say that being able to confirm into a kill gives you an advantage over a 50/50 air dodge read. The meta is dominated by characters that have high combo potential and relatively safe confirms that lead to stock conversions for a reason.
That's not to say that other characters aren't viable, but at a competitive level, if you lack those tools, your character better have something amazing that compensates.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Geminosity
Member
I know that we can't know for sure until February when the character hits, but does anyone else feel like Corrin/Kamui looks like they basically replace Marth/Lucy/Roy?
I find myself put off playing Lucina now (yes yes, I know marth is better) because Corrin looks like she fixes all the issues I had with her (better reach, more versatile / reliable specials all while still appearing quite mobile)
Is there something peeps think the marth-a-sets will offer over the white power ranger?
I find myself put off playing Lucina now (yes yes, I know marth is better) because Corrin looks like she fixes all the issues I had with her (better reach, more versatile / reliable specials all while still appearing quite mobile)
Is there something peeps think the marth-a-sets will offer over the white power ranger?
I know that we can't know for sure until February when the character hits, but does anyone else feel like Corrin/Kamui looks like they basically replace Marth/Lucy/Roy?
I find myself put off playing Lucina now (yes yes, I know marth is better) because Corrin looks like she fixes all the issues I had with her (better reach, more versatile / reliable specials all while still appearing quite mobile)
Is there something peeps think the marth-a-sets will offer over the white power ranger?
Corrin's just big brother (or is it big sister?), while Roy's our boy and Ike fights for his friends.
I dunno, but I've fallen in love with Roy being quick and having that space animal-grade fall speed (except when I forget that he does and I try to ledgeguard or counter offstage). I've also warmed up to Ike, even though I'm not entirely comfortable with his lower aerial mobility.
Still, I'm probably gonna try Cloud online next time I'm playing anything on my WiiU that isn't Xenoblade and then go back to Pac-Man.
...That reminds me, is there any compilation that lists the last time a character was changed in a patch? I think the last time Pac changed was when they nerfed his bair to prevent it from dislodging hydrants all by itself, and I bet there're other characters that have received even less changes than him.
Geminosity
Member
Fixt ;D
I don't think Ike has anything to fear as he still very much is his own animal with slow, powerful strikes and commendable reach. His side-B and up-B give him such drastically different recovery and air options that i don't think Corrin and he really overlap much.
You might be right about Roy perhaps offering that faster, shorter-range game too, to help still distinguish himself
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Jigglypuff had a rollout glitch removed and got the flower damage from her Rest buffed by like 1%.
Since September of 2014 those were the only changes Jiggs has gotten in this game.
Since September of 2014 those were the only changes Jiggs has gotten in this game.
Karsticles
Member
I would have been 1000% more excited for another FE character if it was that purple-haired girl.
Absolutely, but no keepaway character gets easy kill confirms. They all need to make reads to offset being able to harass a character like Ganondorf easily. Mewtwo needs a good read to kill, and I recognize it's a trade-off for having Shadow Ball.
Fixt ;D
I don't think Ike has anything to fear as he still very much is his own animal with slow, powerful strikes and commendable reach. His side-B and up-B give him such drastically different recovery and air options that i don't think Corrin and he really overlap much.
You might be right about Roy perhaps offering that faster, shorter-range game too, to help still distinguish himself
I'm okay with that fix.
Marth and Martha have always felt too plain and boring to me, while Robin has levin sword tomes and that squeaky dash pivot, Ike has Quick Draw, which is nice to compensate Aether's awful horizontal range, and Roy has FIYAH, his fastfalling and wields his sword of seals with a reverse grip, which looks cool.
I agree that Corrin sounds interesting so far unlike poor old Cloud, who I only appreciate because I know there must be lots of people who were looking forward to him, as he felt like Yet Another Swordsman (tm). At least Corrin's got the whole dragon transformation thing going on to shake things up, and that impaling lance special sounds especially fun/quirky (even though I wonder if Corrin can stick to walls with it as well).
That and Duck Hunt doesn't really have any 50/50 setups.
All his kill moves are super telegraphed outside of utilt, or in some cases, are his most used moves (bair) so is often stale.
Toon Link has one of the best back throws in the game and has a good projectile game as well. Lucas is another zoner and has a kill throw. Mewtwo has a safe dsmash, kill throw, and now a fair that can pressure shields. Duck Hunt has uh....utilt, nair with a giant sourspot, and highly telegraphed smash attacks that require opponents to make huge mistakes, and that often cause opponents to fall out even if you hit it.
I know that we can't know for sure until February when the character hits, but does anyone else feel like Corrin/Kamui looks like they basically replace Marth/Lucy/Roy?
I find myself put off playing Lucina now (yes yes, I know marth is better) because Corrin looks like she fixes all the issues I had with her (better reach, more versatile / reliable specials all while still appearing quite mobile)
Is there something peeps think the marth-a-sets will offer over the white power ranger?
I think it's hard to say right now since all we really have is mostly surface level info about them. Marth still has the tipper effect on all his moves going for him especially on f-smash which can KO really early. I dunno about Lucina though.
SolarKnight
Member
You do realize you're dismissing the idea of Duck Hunt having a kill throw by using Mewtwo, who has his up kill throw, as an example of characters that should have trouble killing right
Geminosity
Member
Oh?
True. I always saw Marth/Lucy as being the swordie that reps the combo of speed and reach, but they feel a bit stumpy in smash4 and Corrin looks like they outrange the blue-haired-pair with just the chainsword, nevermind the dragon limbs
I also always felt shield-breaker and dancing blade never quite worked well enough to merit being the specials they are (I mostly just use shield-breaker as lucy's longest-ranged poke now.)I hope there's a limit to how long you can stick people with the lance, else we just got ourselves the biggest time-scam in all of smash history
Oh definitely, it's all conjecture at this point :3
I guess we'll have to see what Corrin's KO power is like before we can see how much the tipper plays off against them, they obviously went for hits on higher % victims in the video to keep it looking impressive
I already thought Lucy would've been better off getting 'royed' because as it is now she seems to occupy a bad place. Hasn't mattered to me much up until now because I like her as a character, but female Corrin is very similar in a lot of ways but has the whole "I'm a dragon!" thing and whatnot too XDMeeting a good Cloud player will happen naturally if anyone is still playing him in a month. But I have a good enough sense of things at this point to not fall into the "potential" talk. Shulk has potential. Lots of characters have potential. Played perfectly, many mid-tier characters have "potential." The problem is, these characters are piloted by humans. No throw combos (his grab range is probably worse than Mewtwo's btw) and terrible recovery make for a character that won't succeed competitively, because humans make mistakes. And making mistakes with a character that has a terrible disadvantage state means you've lost a stock. That's all there is to it. Even if he has some things going offensively, it's not enough.
It pains me that the only DLC character that can make it to top 8 of a national is Ryu. Cloud doesn't change this. People can work on him, but at this point in the game's life we know what makes a competitive character. He's fun to play, and I say this as someone who finds Mewtwo and Jigglypuff fun to play. That's fine. But I wouldn't take him to a tournament, that's all. The more I look at his moveset, his character seems designed for FFAs. The range on finishing touch appeals to the same type of casual player that hides out charging Samus' neutral B - they can hide and charge limit break, then run in with finishing touch for a couple kills and go back to evasion. 1 on 1 the moveset falls apart.
@Shamrock I'm not around tonight, but I will be on other days. If we find ourselves on at the same time I'd be good for some matches.
commanderpepper
Member
Anyone wanna play some Cloud mirror matches? NNID: CommanderPepper
Karsticles
Member
You do realize that Duck Hunt is much heavier than Mewtwo and builds damage faster than him, right?
Plus, just compare DHD's throw frame data to Mewtwo's:
Grabs Hitbox Active FAF
Standing Grab 8-9 29
Dash Grab 10-11 36
Pivot Grab 10-11 34
Grabs Hitbox Active FAF
Standing Grab 7-8 36
Dash Grab 9-10 43
Pivot Grab 10-11 41
So if you want your throw hitbox shrunk to about 1/3 of what it is right now and you want it to recover about 7 frames slower across the board, becoming significantly less safe, and you want Mewtwo's lowest weight in the game status plus trouble getting hits in, then by all means enjoy your KO throw!
Lucas doesn't have anything resembling a kill throw. You can always DI out of it at kill %. Lucas needs reads to kill.
Look at the data on Toon Link's grab:
Grabs Hitbox Active FAF
Standing Grab 12-18 62
Dash Grab 14-20 72
Pivot Grab 15-21 72
Do you want that frame data? Do you want your opponent to have over a full second to punish a whiffed grab?
DHD also has a much easier time getting grabs than these other characters, since he has THREE specials to help cover his approach. I would go so far as to say that DHD has the best damage-building ability of any keepaway character in the game. That has to come at some cost.
Damn straight.
I love spellcasters in general. I don't know why they are so under-represented in fighting games.
We'll talk again after you play Shamrock.
Geminosity
Member
Bayo looks like ZSS on crack with some mii-gunner sprinkled in
<------
:3
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
ZSS can't combo nearly as good as Bayo unless you think uair uair up-B is impressive
It would seem the only way I can have fun on FG is picking random until I find someone good to play with :/
It would seem the only way I can have fun on FG is picking random until I find someone good to play with :/
User 73706
Banned
So, what were ganon's buffs?
Karsticles
Member
Less recovery on all aerials.
Up B buff.
Side B buff (don't know specifics).
Neutral B armor when reversed now.
Slight damage buffs here and there.
I thought Palutena was going to be a spellcaster. :-(Bayo looks like ZSS on crack with some mii-gunner sprinkled in
<------
:3
commanderpepper
Member
Yeah I'll play.
Geminosity
Member
Hence the addition of crack :3ZSS can't combo nearly as good as Bayo unless you think uair uair up-B is impressive
Palu? My avatar should be xmas Ashley now
I honestly don't know what palu is, except maybe missing her personality
It's weird, give a character a meh moveset and I'll still play them, but if you mess up their personality I'm gone XD
NamikazeBurst
Member
Only losers say "Sm4sh"! I bet my Doc is better than your Doc.
My main has been Yoshi since the Wii U version came out, and it will always be that way. I picked him just fine.
Thanks! Join my lobby Please!
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Ok fine, Smfoursh.
If you think you've got a better Doc than mine, you better be prepared to back that up! Until then my Yoshi is the best Yoshi on the planet.
NamikazeBurst
Member
Ok fine, Smfoursh.
If you think you've got a better Doc than mine, you better be prepared to back that up! Until then my Yoshi is the best Yoshi on the planet.
I've seen your Yoshi.
That is all.
Karsticles
Member
I was just reflecting. I agree that Palutena isn't nearly as fun in personality as she is in KI:U.Hence the addition of crack :3
Palu? My avatar should be xmas Ashley now
I honestly don't know what palu is, except maybe missing her personality
It's weird, give a character a meh moveset and I'll still play them, but if you mess up their personality I'm gone XD
WOOSH, just like Yoshi going over all gimp attempts with his super armor for free.
NamikazeBurst
Member
I still don't see the joke. You said I was second best at picking a main. Whether you mean I picked a bad main, or I had a hard time picking a main, I don't know. I guess the joke must be picking Yoshi as a main. Ha.
Shamrock7r
Member
Who wants to play my Cloud
Karsticles
Member
The joke is:
Yoshi.
commanderpepper
Member
GGs.
GG's! Thank you!
commanderpepper
Member
Sure, I'll play. nnid = commanderpepper
Shamrock7r
Member
Just started playing Flux. I'll post if we finish early