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Taul Passi: Microsoft’s Satya Nadella Doubles Down On Xbox’s Confusing Strategy

reinking

Gold Member
It looks like a lot of people disagree with me but I do find it confusing because they are not coming out and saying they are going third party. They still talk of another Xbox console on one hand and everything is an Xbox on the other. Also, there are rumors of a handheld and PC hybrid. I am sure casual gamers that do not follow news are even more confused when they see a sign that says this is an Xbox when it displays a phone. Most probably think MS is coming out with an Xbox Phone.
 

EN250

Member
Tbf, it could be confusing for the people hooked in the Xbox ecosystem already, like where are they going when MS path is straight to 3rd party?
 

Sakura

Member
I understand they are a software company, but if their software was great wouldn't they be selling more hardware? I'm not sure how successful transitioning to 3rd party will be if they don't improve their output.
 
The writing was on the wall in 2010 when they released all that TV/Kinect crap and couldn't consistently produce content outside of Halo, Forza and Gears.

Took 14 years, but here we are. They're a 3rd-party publisher now who sometimes release their own hardware.

Easy to understand, but they're pretending like they haven't been taking licks for 2 generations straight with this campaign.

They HAVE to buy other companies and release all their content on Playstation in order to exist and thrive. That's virtually the only way the AKB deal will yield positive results for them.
 
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Skelterz

Member
They just need to hurry up and release halo and gears on PlayStation I’m a lapsed 360 owner and the only franchise I really care about from Xbox is gears because PS is sorely missing a traditional 3rd person multiplayer shooter.
 

yazenov

Member
Forbes contributor Paul Tassi double down on dump takes and articles. It's obvious that Satya had to bitch slap Phil for his leadership that would have sank Xbox and take control before the ship sinks.

They tried to double down on Gamepass but even after the purchase of Activision and 70 billion dollers later, they haven't seen significant growth in Software, hardware and subscription which has stalled.

The only way to salvage Xbox was to go the Sega route and release their games on everything under the sun. No other options available.

A confusing and dumb strategy would be releasing hardware after becoming a 3rd party publisher. That would be extremely dumb. Xbox wasn't selling hardware even with exclusive gamesa. Why on earth would people buy an Xbox without exclusive games now?
 
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It looks like a lot of people disagree with me but I do find it confusing because they are not coming out and saying they are going third party. They still talk of another Xbox console on one hand and everything is an Xbox on the other. Also, there are rumors of a handheld and PC hybrid. I am sure casual gamers that do not follow news are even more confused when they see a sign that says this is an Xbox when it displays a phone. Most probably think MS is coming out with an Xbox Phone.

Their messaging is making them sound like SEGA in the mid '90s during the transition from 4th-gen to 5th-gen: aimless, befuddling, alienating. MS have all these different suits talking different parts of what should be a clear & concise business strategy, but it's so uncoordinated that it seems like several separate ideas in conflict with each other.

So on that front I guess I can understand where Tassi's coming from. However, Tassi also rubs me as a MASSIVE Xbox fanboy, so the place he's coming from in saying this isn't the same as myself or others. He'd probably rather MS announce something - anything - that would position Xbox as a 360-tier console competitor in the market again. He'll be waiting forever, because that wish will never be granted.

I'm sure MS's plans still involve hardware, but if they're really moving into this multiplatform publisher business model and seeing their gaming hardware more PC-like, then they need to simply rip the band-aid off and get all the main people on the same page to deliver a unified message or statement, and soon. Like why care about what people like Boomstick are gonna feel about it; those kind of people are extreme fanboys and will just find other ways to keep up their fanboying for the brand. Some of them (again, Boomstick) are already doing that, i.e it's a "platform war" for them now.

I understand they are a software company, but if their software was great wouldn't they be selling more hardware? I'm not sure how successful transitioning to 3rd party will be if they don't improve their output.

Have always said that MS do release some good titles, but most of the good games they have are in niche genre spaces or lack mainstream market appeal. The IP they have which are in less niche spaces and have mainstream appeal...are IP they purchased through M&As. TES, DOOM, Gears (bought the rights from Epic), Minecraft, WOW, COD...none of those IP were built internally at XGS.

Meanwhile IP XGS used to have that were mainstream hits have more or less all declined, especially Halo, which is virtually a carcass these days. Even Forza Motorsport is a joke now; Forza Horizon is still quality and is pretty mainstream (certainly for a racing game), but that was technically done by a 3P dev that MS acquired back in 2018.

Otherwise everything else that's quality from them, like Flight Simulator, Age of Empires, etc.? Specialized market niches and not global mainstream appeal like a Mario, Zelda, Spiderman, GOW, etc. But MS's problem is, like SEGA in the mid-90s, they have a lot of duds or middle-of-the-road games to go along with whatever good titles they bring out. Bleeding Edge, RedFall, Crackdown 3, Hellblade II etc. not to mention promising games they've cancelled in the past like Phantom Dust reboot or Scalebound.

That type of situation didn't affect SEGA as hard because they had a good number of major hits that were market-leaders and standard-setters across Genesis (Sonic, Streets of Rage etc.) and arcade (Virtua Fighter, Daytona USA, etc.) at the same time, and most of the middling games they released in that period were either obscure arcade titles or oddballs on non-main hardware, or even games they didn't develop themselves but instead published (usually with very few realizing SEGA were the publisher). Microsoft hasn't put out a mainstream AAA release that is industry-leading or standard-setting within some major context, over the past 15 years. In fact the last time they probably did such from a 1P POV was either Halo 3 (2007) or Gears 2 (2008).

This isn't the same thing as me saying MS haven't released any good games since 2007/2008, because they have. However, none of those games were major touchstones in the industry, or elevated the gaming space in terms of production values, game design etc. (let alone sold any gargantuan number of copies) the way games like Uncharted 2, TLOU, Super Mario Galaxy/Galaxy 2, BOTW, Witcher 3, GTA5, PUBG, Fortnite, GT7, Skyrim etc. did. And as a platform holder, IMO you NEED to be putting out those types of games at least once every couple years or so; you're supposed to lead by example and Microsoft completely failed to do so without resorting to buying up big IP like Minecraft, or more recently buying 3P publishers like Zenimax and ABK.

But then, the problem's become that yes, while MS now have some of those market-leading IP under their ownership, they had ZERO involvement in growing those IP to begin with and the vast majority simply do not associate those IP strongly with Microsoft or especially Xbox hardware. That's just a fact. When you ask the average person (especially a non-gamer) what they think of when they hear Nintendo, they'll tell you Mario, Zelda, Smash Bros., Mario Kart etc. When you ask them what they think of when they hear PlayStation, they'll tell you TLOU, Spiderman, Uncharted, God of War, and probably some 3P stuff like Tomb Raider, Final Fantasy, Resident Evil etc.

When you ask a typical core or casual gamer, or non-gamer what they think of when they hear Xbox, they'll likely say Halo...maybe Forza and Gears...and that's about it. Maybe COD if they were heavy on it during 360 but stopped gaming afterwards, otherwise they're more likely to associate that with PlayStation than Xbox. So immediately, if you're MS you have a major problem because Halo's been increasingly irrelevant for the past decade, Gears isn't a massive IP like it used to be, and Forza was never as prolific as the other two even at its peak, let alone the disgrace it is today. The typical casual or non-gamer, or even a lot of core gamers, aren't going to subconsciously associate Xbox with TES, Warcraft, Minecraft, Tony Hawk, Guitar Hero, Crash, Spyro etc. because Microsoft never concentrated on Xbox as a console strongly enough the past 10-15 years to build cache between the brand and those IP within the market.

You don't just suddenly get your console to have the brand power boost of those IP simply because you spent billions to buy the publishers; you'd have to earn that mindshare over years of hard work, and Xbox (at least as a traditional console) doesn't have anymore time left to do that. Phil's bosses have run out of patience, and they're clearly ready to move on.
 
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Sorcerer

Member
He messed up sure, but he never stopped delivering games, even with the launch of Xbox One he got the likes of Titanfall, Dead Rising 3, Quantum Break, Ryse and Sunset Overdrive as third party exclusives and even brought in different first party titles like Killer Instinct.

That all went away when Phil “I don’t believe games sell consoles” Spencer took over.
Phil was going to sell commercial aircraft, but he believed "The need to travel to various destinations by air" was not going to sell an airplane.
Phil was also going to be a used car salesman be he believed "The need to travel to various destinations by roadways", was not going to sell a car.
 
Phil Spencer's biggest achievement was selling a future that never happened, thanks to his silver tongue.

I don’t know if this speaks to Phil’s PR magic or the naivety (to put it lightly) of the Xbox community
To be fair I think Phil tried. No one could have expected sales to crater so quickly the way they did. Everybody was in shock at what was happening. Sure you have a few posters here and there who are like "told you so" but in general no one saw that coming.
 

NickFire

Member
To be fair I think Phil tried. No one could have expected sales to crater so quickly the way they did. Everybody was in shock at what was happening. Sure you have a few posters here and there who are like "told you so" but in general no one saw that coming.
I don't think there's any to be fair warranted. I credit the dude for making bank in his position. Nice gig to have. But what did he really do? Looks to me like he tried copying netflix's success, devalued the console business to boost poor sales via pc, went with the flow by trying to appease people who are barely customers (blue hairs), and was to spineless to make games that could move the needle. Just one guy's opinion of course.
 

Fess

Member
Not all that confusing. Profit over hardware sales. If Xbox is successful in launching it's storefront on other devices, then hardware sales won't matter.
This reads like they’re doing streaming on other devices.
A storefront for streaming, where have we experienced that before hmmmm? Something that starts with St…
Yeah we already know that will flop, streaming in general still have lots of problems and especially Microsoft is behind there.

Their Playstation strategy seems to be about native installs at least. Better. But I guarantee that you’ll never see their storefront on Playstation, it’ll be a port here and there when a studio has the time to do it but it’ll likely be 99% new games, which don’t come out often enough.
So, their strategy will flop there as well, they’ll just be another 3rd party publisher and Sony will take a 30% cut from all games sold and dlc, and no Gamepass subscribers there. Flop.

Then there is Steam, they’re already there day 1 with everything new and some old stuff with native installs. But Gamepass is cumbersome there, games can be added but don’t show as normal installs, no library art, no playtime logged. When Xbox is truly dead and Steam is Microsoft’s plan B then Gamepass subscription numbers will drop like a rock.
 
See a lot of people saying the their messaging is clear, and yes, if you pay attention you could have tell this is where MS was heading for awhile. But if you take them at their word, it is a super confusing message.


It was essentially a year ago today where Jez put out that tweet mentioning that, no MS exclusives won't come over to PS. Then just a couple months later Phil had a podcast or whatever saying how they would only bring over 4 games. In addition, he specifically mention that Indiana Jones would not be one of those games, which was a lie. Then MS went to a 'anything is an Xbox approach' but yet all their games aren't everywhere yet.

Maybe confusing isn't the right word, but MS has consistently flip flopped on their messaging, and even then bringing over games doesn't really seem to have any type of coherent plan. Some games come over quickly, Some take forever.
 

DAHGAMING

Gold Member
It's only confusing for the people desperately trying to hold on to something that no longer exists.

Sorry Tassi.

Its quite clear to me that all of my Xbox consoles from the original, to the X and S and all in between are still here. Full of power I can hear the hum of energy awaiting to unleash upon my next gaming sessionand power my dreams. Xbox is hear now in the present as it was in the past and as we jouney on the arrow of time Xbox will await us with majestic games and brand new hardware that our minds are not yet ready for 💪🟢.
 
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90% of gamepass and xbox live users are on Xbox consoles, are they really going to risk all of that because of short term profits, they need to double down on consoles, get a handheld in there, get back to making exclusive games.
 
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LordCBH

Member
90% of gamepass and xbox live users are on Xbox consoles, are they really going to risk all of that because of short term profits, they need to double down on consoles, get a handheld in there, get back to making exclusive games.

They could triple down on Xbox at this point and it wouldn’t move the needle. They’ve been shooting themselves in the head since 2010 and people won’t forget that. They’ve aren't chasing short-term profits by going third party, they’re chasing long-term success that they have not had with their brand.

The absolute best case scenario is they go 3P and have a revolution like Sega has been having the past like 7 years.
 

NickFire

Member
90% of gamepass and xbox live users are on Xbox consoles, are they really going to risk all of that because of short term profits, they need to double down on consoles, get a handheld in there, get back to making exclusive games.
They've spent way too much money. Imagine a boat with 100 billion dollars on it, and the pumps cannot keep up with the inflow of water. Eventually you pull that thing from the water before it sinks with 100 billion on it.
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
How are people not registering why this is confusing? Microsoft's strategy keeps shifting and it's hard for a casual observer to keep track of how much of a going concern the Xbox business is, or why they should stick with their current console/the whole Xbox ecosystem. They keep saying "oh, there's going to be another Xbox console,", but now there's also maybe a handheld? But now it's also on every device you have, except there's no evidence of that today when you're on those devices. And cloud's a thing, somehow.

And besides - they've been in the console business for 23 years. This is a major shift, regardless of whether they've dipped their toes in the water over the last few years.
 
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mrqs

Member
Xbox died when they decided to release all games day one on PC. I'd bet a big slice of PS5 sales comes from PC gamers that want to play PlayStation exclusive games on day one. Not having that clearly hurt them.

They lost PC gaming by sleeping at the wheel when Steam devoured their own OS.

Now, they don't have anything.

Microsoft can't and won't be satisfied by just being a game publisher. It makes absolutely zero sense for them to be in that category. They don't have a big game store, don't have hardware.

Game Pass is dead and so are 'small-scale' games to appease a small percentage of the user base that might like that. They would invest in it to retain people on their hardware, store, and Game Pass. Now, that doesn't make too much sense, as Game Pass clearly won't explode in subscribers anymore. They have hit the ceiling.

I expect massive layoffs and studio closures for the next 3 years. A complete reverse from 'art' games to profitable ones. And even with that, they have no long-term future. The market is set.

Really disheartening.
 
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There's many threads to pull at here but the one that's true that I rarely see people talk about : Xbox as a brand attracts a kind of player that is only interested in specific genres, mostly relegated to games popular in it's home territory of the USA. Racing, sports, shooters, and big budget western RPGs like a Mass Effect or TES. I have no idea how you fight or try to correct this. They clearly know it's a problem because they keep trying to make GamePass deals to alleviate the discrepancy.

People interested in a wider range of genre are always going to gravitate towards PlayStation, and it's a completely worthless uphill battle to try and fight because of the more worldwide nature of the brand. You're not going to market your way out of Japanese people preferring to buy a Sony console to play Final Fantasy / Metaphor on. It doesn't matter that they get Yakuza on GamePass, nobody on that platforms gives a shit about those games.
 

Zacfoldor

Member
There's many threads to pull at here but the one that's true that I rarely see people talk about : Xbox as a brand attracts a kind of player that is only interested in specific genres, mostly relegated to games popular in it's home territory of the USA. Racing, sports, shooters, and big budget western RPGs like a Mass Effect or TES. I have no idea how you fight or try to correct this. They clearly know it's a problem because they keep trying to make GamePass deals to alleviate the discrepancy.

People interested in a wider range of genre are always going to gravitate towards PlayStation, and it's a completely worthless uphill battle to try and fight because of the more worldwide nature of the brand. You're not going to market your way out of Japanese people preferring to buy a Sony console to play Final Fantasy / Metaphor on. It doesn't matter that they get Yakuza on GamePass, nobody on that platforms gives a shit about those games.
That is absolutely prejudiced against the Xbox fandom.

You are talking about the bros. I was one. I camped out for Halo 2.

I played that, NFL2K5, Tiger Woods, and Madden. I was in that group. I owned the transparent green Halo Xbox.

Know what else I owned. Every console ever. I also beat Mike Tyson LIVE in front of half my damn college and that is a hell of a story.(in Mike Tyson's Punch Out).

During that time I also played RE4 Mercenaries TO DEATH on my Gamecube with that same group of college friends and nowadays I play wow and fromsoft games and NOT madden with that same group, so we are not as homogenous as you imagine. I play anime games now. It's all wonderful. My main platform is currently PS5 Pro, but it has been Switch, it has been PC(for 1.5 decades) it has been Xbox, and it won't be again but it COULD be. Hell, my main planform has been Virtual Boy for about 3 weeks. I'm just saying, give people a little credit just because you saw them playing cod one time does not mean they are a 2 dimensional dude bro....and yes, back on topic Xbox is done.
 
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wipeout364

Member
I think Xbox is going to continue to release hardware. They are going to be selling it to maintain a presence in the space and be a benchmark for other hardware makers that want to develop Xbox devices. Similar to what they do with their laptops.

Their goal, Although not presented in a clear way is to own the living room via web connected devices ie PC, Xbox, tablet, phone, and if Sony lets them PS5.

All their games will require log in to the Xbox network and account creation. So you will in fact be playing Xbox on ps5 or whatever device you use.

Gamepass will probably come to PS5 at some point due to demand and Sony needing it as they have allowed EA and Ubisoft to open their services and forced Sony to allow their networks to operate on their platform.

This is my opinion of what is going on. Do I like it ? As an Xbox primary user I am not super enthused but it is the reality and I do think there is a real opportunity for Microsoft to achieve their goal but it could al blow up as well ;as gamers are notoriously against change.

Look at any PS5 or Steam thread to see how we care more about loyalty then competition.
 
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I think Xbox is going to continue to release hardware. They are going to be selling it to maintain a presence in the space and be a benchmark for other hardware makers that want to develop Xbox devices. Similar to what they do with their laptops.

Their goal, Although not presented in a clear way is to own the living room via web connected devices ie PC, Xbox, tablet, phone, and if Sony lets them PS5.

All their games will require log in to the Xbox network and account creation. So you will in fact be playing Xbox on ps5 or whatever device you use.

Gamepass will probably come to PS5 at some point due to demand and Sony needing it as they have allowed EA and Ubisoft to open their services and forced Sony to allow their networks to operate on their platform.

This is my opinion of what is going on. Do I like it ? As an Xbox primary user I am not super enthused but it is the reality and I do think there is a real opportunity for Microsoft to achieve their goal but it could al blow up as well ;as gamers are notoriously against change.

Look at any PS5 or Steam thread to see how we care more about loyalty then competition.
PlayStation already has ps+. Why would they allow a rival service like gamepass in their ecosystem? Doesn’t make sense and only hurts them while helping Xbox.
 
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Humdinger

Gold Member
I think Xbox is going to continue to release hardware.

Yup, we know they will. At least two next-gen offerings.

Their goal, Although not presented in a clear way is to own the living room via web connected devices ie PC, Xbox, tablet, phone, and if Sony lets them PS5.

No, not "the living room" - that was years ago, around the time of the notorious Xbox One reveal. It's more like the "play anywhere" space now.

All their games will require log in to the Xbox network and account creation. So you will in fact be playing Xbox on ps5 or whatever device you use.

That's not the case at this point. Maybe for Sea of Thieves? That's multiplayer. If you buy an SP game, though, you don't need to do any of that. Maybe you're saying that's something that will happen in the future. Maybe. I don't see why, though - unless you're talking about GP.

Gamepass will probably come to PS5 at some point due to demand and Sony needing it as they have allowed EA and Ubisoft to open their services and forced Sony to allow their networks to operate on their platform.

Unlikely. I don't know what "demand" you're referring to, or why you say Sony "needs" it. Sony wouldn't want GP on their platform for two reasons. First, it would be a direct competitor to their own service, PS+, which generates a lot of income for them. Second - and more importantly - GP is value destructive. It undermines profit. I mean, just look at what's happened to Xbox. GP would offer cheap Day 1 access to games that also appear on PS5 (e.g., Doom or CoD). That would be horrible for Sony - and indirectly for MS, too, since they are relying on PS sales to make their games profitable. It would cannibalize sales of those games on PS, just as it's done on Xbox. Not a great idea!
 
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wipeout364

Member
PlayStation already has ps+. Why would they allow a rival service like gamepass in their ecosystem? Doesn’t make sense and only hurts them while helping Xbox.
Well they allow Ubisoft network and EA network to run so why wouldn’t they? Both of those run separate to the PS5 network. Ubisoft servers and EA servers both require separate logins. Sony tried to fight EA originally but Sony needed the sports games so EA set the precedent.
 

Humdinger

Gold Member
Well they allow Ubisoft network and EA network to run so why wouldn’t they? Both of those run separate to the PS5 network. Ubisoft servers and EA servers both require separate logins. Sony tried to fight EA originally but Sony needed the sports games so EA set the precedent.

Do EA and Ubisoft allow you to play their games for free on Day 1?

I'm not being snarky, I genuinely don't know. But if not, it's apples and oranges.
 
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wipeout364

Member
Yup, we know they will. At least two next-gen offerings.



No, not "the living room" - that was years ago, around the time of the notorious Xbox One reveal. It's more like the "play anywhere" space now.



That's not the case at this point. Maybe for Sea of Thieves? That's multiplayer. If you buy an SP game, though, you don't need to do any of that. Maybe you're saying that's something that will happen in the future. Maybe. I don't see why, though - unless you're talking about GP.



Unlikely. I don't know what "demand" you're referring to, or why you say Sony "needs" it. Sony wouldn't want GP on their platform for two reasons. First, it would be a direct competitor to their own service, PS+, which generates a lot of income for them. Second - and more importantly - GP is value destructive. It undermines profit. I mean, just look at what's happened to Xbox. GP would offer cheap Day 1 access to games that also appear on PS5 (e.g., Doom or CoD). That would be horrible for Sony - and indirectly for MS, too, since they are relying on PS sales to make their games profitable. It would cannibalize sales of those games on PS, just as it's done on Xbox. Not a great idea!
The login will be coming since everything Microsoft makes now will have online components.

Sony can refuse the gamepass app but Microsoft has a lot of leverage with its IP. As well gamepass is a streaming app which will be hard for Sony to not allow given it allows EA and Ubisoft to have subscription services (and download unpaid for games as part of the service).
On top of this Recent decisions in the US courts have not been favorable to walled garden ecosystems.
 

EverydayBeast

ChatGPT 0.1
Xbox’s game pass is disgusting and over valued and yet they try to say it’s worth having and game pass is a slap in the face to developers, lets make expensive games for free and there’s very little push back to game pass destroying Xbox live, and everyone just went along with it.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
The only question left is how much hardware will they actually sell next gen, if they really do follow through with plans to stick it out.

I still feel like even selling ~30 million or something units is worth quite a bit to any company, especially if they are selling lots of software off of that console... but low sales + heavy focus on subscription is going to cause even more companies to just skip Xbox hardware w/o having to be incentivized at all. Although it's interesting to hear Square saying they don't want to do exclusivity anymore after several PS5 exclusives/timed exclusives.
 

wipeout364

Member
Do EA and Ubisoft allow you to play their games for free on Day 1?

I'm not being snarky, I genuinely don't know. But if not, it's apples and oranges.
EA and Ubisoft both offer day one services. I am not sure about on PS5 but EA has a PC subscription tier that allows day one.
 
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wipeout364

Member
The only question left is how much hardware will they actually sell next gen, if they really do follow through with plans to stick it out.

I still feel like even selling ~30 million or something units is worth quite a bit to any company, especially if they are selling lots of software off of that console... but low sales + heavy focus on subscription is going to cause even more companies to just skip Xbox hardware w/o having to be incentivized at all. Although it's interesting to hear Square saying they don't want to do exclusivity anymore after several PS5 exclusives/timed exclusives.
It’s a good question and despite my posts this is not the direction I wanted Microsoft to go in, but they have made their decision so off we go.
 

Humdinger

Gold Member
EA and Ubisoft both offer day one services. I am not sure about on PS5 but EA has a PC subscription tier that allows day one.

Interesting. I didn't know they were doing that.

I checked Ubisoft. The Premium (Day 1) tier is only available on PC and Xbox. On Playstation, only the lower "Ubisoft classics" tier is available, not the Day 1 tier. Which makes good business sense. Giving new games away for cheap on Day 1 just trains people to rent rather than buy, as we've seen on Xbox.

I checked EA Play as well. It does not offer Day 1 services on PS. It offers 10-hour trials of "select" new games - so extended demos of certain games, basically. Otherwise, it's a collection of older titles.

So, neither of them offer Day 1 services on Playstation. I think comparing these services to GP is apples and oranges.
 
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