Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
The cage one was pretty bad though, mostly because fuck me the cage is so finicky to control.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Last Guardian |OT| In my memories, the monster always has kind eyes
- Thread starter Agram
- Start date
When I ran into problems with the diving puzzle you mention, frustration eventually brought me to asking for help. Because I wanted to solve it, and play with Trico again.
The worst puzzle, I think, was the one in the water where you fell down with the giant catnip container, and Trico was above you and it was unclear exactly what the game wanted you to do. I eventually solved it on my own, by accident, and I'm not sure why that puzzle in particular had to be so strange. It could've been excised and not much would have been lost. But it never sent me into fits of pure hatred.
I suppose this is a matter of curiosity and patience. If you aren't utterly charmed by Trico, compelled at any cost to run and jump and climb with him amongst the stones and sunshine, then... well, the entire game is about Trico.
Is your copy physical? Perhaps you can trade it in.
Correct, it's not about the game making you feel "you're dumb" by not solving a puzzle right away (e.g the section right before the diving part was fun ito how water level played a role in you getting where you need to be) but rather the, in my opinion, atrocious camera and subpar controls doing everything to get in your way in a game where tactile control is needed occasionally alongside a healthy dose of patience.
"Oh look at this place, seems like I can't reach this particular place under water. Hmm...Hmm maybe Trico can dive down with me or me grabbing its tail as it submerges"
*30 minutes of trying later*
"Nah can't be right nothing is happening, guess I'll go on a lite scouting tour as I've surely missed something"
*15 minutes of fruitless searching*
"Damn it!!! What could it be? D..do I keep trying to reach that submerged tunnel? But Trico refused to do anything despite my most patient and meticulous approach!"
*30 minutes of litetally treading water on Tricos back*
"That's it...time to look this up..."
Online FAQ #32542: "In order to progress Trico needs to di-"
"No..._nooo_"
Yeah, made me feel really dumb especially since the solution was to retry at checkpoint a few times and spam the living shit out of a specific command. *mwah*, that's that organic design for you.
soldierblue
Member
I don't see this game as difficult. It makes you use your brain a little, but every solution I've run into is pretty straightforward and comes pretty naturally. I just want the character I'm controlling and the creature I'm giving orders to do what I want once I've figured out my next move. When I'm missing stupid jumps because I don't feel like I have solid control over the kid, or when I've told Trico to move that way six times and I'm still waiting for him to do anything... yeah, it turns into a frustrating experience for me.
Enough. The game's charm is almost entirely non-verbal, though.
A little more than previous games...honestly, what is there is pretty important storywise. But you should be able to finish it.
LowlySmokeGuy
Banned
I never had to look up a puzzle solution, but there were a few points where I got stuck for more than a half hour, and finally decided to try something that I didn't think would work and it ended up working.
One example being when I decided to go near a certain spot and call Trico on the
puzzle. I didn't think it would lead to the solution just like that. I loved those moments.
One example being when I decided to go near a certain spot and call Trico on the
water wave
Jawbreaker
Member
Well, spamming commands will lead to you having a pretty bad time. Trico usually only needs one or two commands once you're able to use them if it's not already leading you where you need to go. You just have to look in the direction you want to go, and make sure Trico is looking at you.
This game is simply the most frustrating experience I'm having with a videogame in the last 10 years. Uusually I have this kind of experience with shitty unpolished games, but there's no problem because if I see a game is crap, I skip it. Here there's a different thing: the game is good but it's ruined by crappy controls and shitty AI.
This is what happened to me right now.
Right after the section in which there are statues trying to kill you and Trico has its tail trapped in a gate you need to open by pulling a chain, there's a section with a collapsed bridge in front of you and a closed gate on the left (plus a stairs on the right leading to a barrell you need to pull from the ground).
I tried for one hour to make Trico jump the bridge, or reach the lever on the upper right near the closed gate on the left. Nothing worked. Than I gave a look at the gate and I thought: "Maybe I can pass it since bars have enough space between them."
So I approched the gate and...it was like invisible. I passed it with the kid but ALSO with Trico? How? Trico literally passed the gate, it didn't jump or what, it simply walked.
Inside this area the game gave me a prompt to give instructions to the creature, so I did it, reached the upper part of the room and...opened the gate? So Trico could leave the area?
WTF? Is this a bug? Because after this section I told Trico to jump the bridge by pushing R1+Triangle and it did it istantly, so I supposed to visit this room before making the jump but HOW? Considering the gate was bugged?
This is what happened to me right now.
Right after the section in which there are statues trying to kill you and Trico has its tail trapped in a gate you need to open by pulling a chain, there's a section with a collapsed bridge in front of you and a closed gate on the left (plus a stairs on the right leading to a barrell you need to pull from the ground).
I tried for one hour to make Trico jump the bridge, or reach the lever on the upper right near the closed gate on the left. Nothing worked. Than I gave a look at the gate and I thought: "Maybe I can pass it since bars have enough space between them."
So I approched the gate and...it was like invisible. I passed it with the kid but ALSO with Trico? How? Trico literally passed the gate, it didn't jump or what, it simply walked.
Inside this area the game gave me a prompt to give instructions to the creature, so I did it, reached the upper part of the room and...opened the gate? So Trico could leave the area?
WTF? Is this a bug? Because after this section I told Trico to jump the bridge by pushing R1+Triangle and it did it istantly, so I supposed to visit this room before making the jump but HOW? Considering the gate was bugged?
It's not bugged. The funny thing here is no one sees how Trico goes though because the player runs through and doesn't look back, thinking Trico simply can't do it.
Truth is... the thing opens like a one-way doggy door. There's a second door of the same type later on where you can watch him do this. Trico can push the gate open, but can't pull it.
(also, why were you trying to make Trico jump the same gap for an entire hour?! Experiment!!!)
Well, that section sucks in my opinion. Because you see a gate and you istantly think: I need to open it. And since there's a lever nearby, you think that lever will open the gate, so you waste time trying to reach it with Trico.
Don't blame the game if you try the same thing for an entire hour and it doesn't work. Listen to your inner puzzle solver. If something isn't working after about ten minutes, it probably isn't the solution. Try another way.
Eh, but right before in the "pot" area I spent 25 minutes (literally) to make Trico jump and reach the next area. I knew that was the way because you can see the passage if you jump on Trico, but Trico wouldn't do the jump dunno why. So try after try, it did it in the end, but it was another frustrating part.
So were you just standing still spamming r1 while pointing or trying different things? People have no trouble speedrunning this game. AI-wise.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
Am I crazy in thinking this is the single most impressive game (any platform), visually speaking?
It just seems like an impossible achievement, on so many levels.
It conveys scale, mass and weight so much. In a world so well realized. It has less ingredients or components than most, but what it has is so great.
It just seems like an impossible achievement, on so many levels.
It conveys scale, mass and weight so much. In a world so well realized. It has less ingredients or components than most, but what it has is so great.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Adoring the game so far. I love how it feels as much Trico's game as your own, if not moreso, and you're more of an observer and assistant to help it experience its journey. The bond feels real right down to the niggling annoyances and quirky behavior. Sometimes I just feel like I have to trust Trico to guide me in the right direction, such as a handful of moments where it took initiative to move forward with me riding on top. It's a nice back and forth; independence and dependency.
That being said the game is a technical shitshow outside of the gorgeous graphics and Trico's believably. Namely the camera, which has been noted a thousand times now, but...yeah. Holy fucking shit it's awful. Disastrously so, and I'd forgive anyone who couldn't get through the game because of it and the tremendously erratic framerate. It's like those old PS1/N64 early 3D games where the dev team either ran out of time or had technical/design incompetence in building a camera that coherently frames the experience balanced alongside player control relative to objective and goals. Awful, just awful.
Thankfully it's not enough to deter me from going through what is otherwise a so far exceedingly unique and engaging adventure.
That being said the game is a technical shitshow outside of the gorgeous graphics and Trico's believably. Namely the camera, which has been noted a thousand times now, but...yeah. Holy fucking shit it's awful. Disastrously so, and I'd forgive anyone who couldn't get through the game because of it and the tremendously erratic framerate. It's like those old PS1/N64 early 3D games where the dev team either ran out of time or had technical/design incompetence in building a camera that coherently frames the experience balanced alongside player control relative to objective and goals. Awful, just awful.
Thankfully it's not enough to deter me from going through what is otherwise a so far exceedingly unique and engaging adventure.
Played a good 3 hours of this today. The game is gorgeous. Even with the fact that it didn't start development on the PS4 showing in the visuals, the signature Team Ico atmosphere and visual style is still clear. The environmental puzzles are a lot of fun. I'm enjoying them more than the puzzles in Ico. This feels more organic compared to Ico. Trico is adorable. From the way it looks at you to how you can pet it, this game gets the human and pet relationship completely right even though the pet is a giant monster.
Unfortunately the controls are weird. Sometimes the controls feel sticky like the kid is slow to respond or not registering my button presses. Climbing on Trico in particular feels way worse than climbing up Colossi in SOTC. I don't know how Team Ico of all developers end up doing that worse. Surprisingly with the latest update I've had almost no framerate issues. There were some issues when entering new areas but honestly nothing that has brought the game to single frames per second or even stuttering fps during combat or puzzle solving. The game has been incredibly smooth, more so than SOTC was on the PS2. I was prepared for much worse. But the camera, my god it is bad. Sometimes it doesn't want to move, sometimes it moves into the worst imaginable position for what I am trying to do, and often I feel like I'm fighting it just to get a decent view of where I am and where I'm going.
Unfortunately the controls are weird. Sometimes the controls feel sticky like the kid is slow to respond or not registering my button presses. Climbing on Trico in particular feels way worse than climbing up Colossi in SOTC. I don't know how Team Ico of all developers end up doing that worse. Surprisingly with the latest update I've had almost no framerate issues. There were some issues when entering new areas but honestly nothing that has brought the game to single frames per second or even stuttering fps during combat or puzzle solving. The game has been incredibly smooth, more so than SOTC was on the PS2. I was prepared for much worse. But the camera, my god it is bad. Sometimes it doesn't want to move, sometimes it moves into the worst imaginable position for what I am trying to do, and often I feel like I'm fighting it just to get a decent view of where I am and where I'm going.
I can't really remember any spot I had to call a command more than twice or thrice. A single command usually does it. But maybe some people aren't placing their camera in the direction of interest?
Game had three frustrating puzzles in my mind.
The
actually made me Google the solution though in retrospect I should have figured out the first step
but I believe I still would have needed help with the second step.
And two moments in the water being
With that said there were a couple of physics puzzles I didn't immediately get that I relished afterwards like the
.
Game had three frustrating puzzles in my mind.
The
rolling cage
which is to shout for Trico
And two moments in the water being
the underwater dive which had unclear mechanics and prior to that when you are trapped beneath the floorboards and you should somehow know Trico follows your position around and find a weak spot.
With that said there were a couple of physics puzzles I didn't immediately get that I relished afterwards like the
wave needed by making Trico jump and having to pull Trico's tail into a gap in the elevator floor so you can descend
cm osi
Member
hey, you had the chance to see trico jumping in water like 3 times before, and observe the water wave. also, when you pass the gate trico get in position for the jump. don't blame the game
I looked the direction I wanted to go and pushed R1, but it didn't work if not after several tries.
You didnt try using the face buttons to give specific commands?
Mash all the buttons.
Btw if you start tapping immediately it can just be one button.
Oh right, thanks!
Note to self, never die.
Just seen your edit, i'll remember to try that if I do die, is it like a punishment? I don't know if i've come across something like this before, it certainly puts me off leaping to my death lol.
Jawbreaker
Member
Thoughts of Zeus suddenly fill my head ...
Hah, you just need to spam button presses on the controller.
Dundar
Member
Just mash the buttons. The game started that way, you should remember that
In fairness I did remember, but it seemed to take forever so I wasn't sure if I was supposed to be hitting buttons or not. I just imagined sitting here hitting buttons for 20 minutes and then finding out the game had crashed lol.
Fancy Clown
Member
Started playing this yestereday. My god is it gorgeous. Loving it so far. The environmental puzzles, the atmosphere, and Tric-bro are all amazing. Not even the shitty framerate, super obnoxious button prompts, and wonky camera can bring me down.
I'm still near the beginning and i'm already in love with this game and especially Trico. I just keep watching his ears twitch, it's so realistic.
level1
Member
Just finished. I don't remember ever having such a love/hate relationship with any other game. There's so much that's golden in here - the animations for both the boy and Trico are simply god tier and give them so much personality, the level design is great at times and really gives the game a distinctive sense of place, some set pieces are jaw dropping, and the final 2 hours or so may just be some of my best gaming moments ever (
). But jesus christ do the complaints have merit to them. Why does the boy transition from excruciating tip toe to balls out sprinting with no in-between state (especially when the game requires precise control for more than a few times)? Why does the camera move like it's being held underwater? Why the fuck does Trico NEVER EAT THE FUCKING BARRELS PROPERLY. Seriously Trico, it's not that hard. And some of those puzzles..oh boy.
starting with the evil trico fight
Rikimaru82
Member
How people are heaving issues with this game is beyond me. Yeah the camera is not the best there is, but really? That's breaking the game? Pfffff....Maybe the puzzles are too hard for some.. I loved it!! Once you realise to stop spamming commands Trico does exactly what you want him to do. It's not SOTC but it never tries to be. Just like, ICO and SOTC, it's all about the experience. No game ever made me want to pet a creature and look at his reactions like TLG does. The way you see their bond growing (as well as your own) is caputred beautifully. Sure there are issues with the game, but looking past those issues, a masterpiece is what remains. Those who remain (little nod at SOTC ) are in for a lifetime experience.
) are in for a lifetime experience.Honestly, I think that you only need to look at all of the complaints in this thread to understand why they felt the need to beat the player over the head with button prompts all the way through the end. The game has performance issues and the camera struggles in tight areas, but other than that I really can't relate to anyone's frustrations. The game's puzzles are natural and not all that difficult, Trico only ever needs one command to do whatever you ask of him, and I think what some people mistake for buggy AI is actually them just misunderstanding how to issue commands properly.How people are heaving issues with this game is beyond me. Yeah the camera is not the best there is, but really? That's breaking the game? Pfffff....Maybe the puzzles are too hard for some.. I loved it!! Once you realise to stop spamming commands Trico does exactly what you want him to do. It's not SOTC but it never tries to be. Just like, ICO and SOTC, it's all about the experience. No game ever made me want to pet a creature and look at his reactions like TLG does. The way you see their bond growing (as well as your own) is caputred beautifully. Sure there are issues with the game, but looking past those issues, a masterpiece is what remains. Those who remain (little nod at SOTC
I'm not trying to dismiss every complaint about the game. Some are valid without a doubt, but a lot of the super frustrated people in here just sound like they've been a little too coddled by modern game design conventions. TLG's design is only reminiscent of a PS2 game in that it's straightforward and respects the players intelligence enough to let them figure out its environmental puzzles on their own and occasionally miss a jump and fall to their deaths.
It's not a game for everyone, but I struggle to understand how anyone who liked either ICO or SotC could dislike TLG. It's cut from the same cloth and wonderful despite some technical failings.
level1
Member
Lmao.
Playing with it occasionally is fine. I'm pretty sure that barrels continually popping out of it's mouth when it's
dying and desperately in need of food
Folks seriously, if a solution doesn't work for ten minutes the game is either bugged or you just like bashing your head against a wall. I'd say this an overall easier puzzle game than the Portal Series and by and far simpler than something like the Witness or old school point and click adventure games.The game will not hold your hand on these puzzles but none of these are such mind benders that you should be taking half an hour to solve.
If spamming commands or using a command over and over again isn't working try something else and for the love of God pay attention to Trico. Between its body language, vocal cues, head movements and other animations and actions it will give you a ton of tells when something is working, where to go and how to solve a lot of puzzles. I feel like players fight the game so much they make it a nightmare for themselves and I'm not talking about controls or camera or anything but just making it through the actual game.
If spamming commands or using a command over and over again isn't working try something else and for the love of God pay attention to Trico. Between its body language, vocal cues, head movements and other animations and actions it will give you a ton of tells when something is working, where to go and how to solve a lot of puzzles. I feel like players fight the game so much they make it a nightmare for themselves and I'm not talking about controls or camera or anything but just making it through the actual game.
TimeEffect
Member
Lollll. Adorable. I hope you get through the rest of the game okay.
You're going to be doing that a few times in the game. If you see symbols on screen, mash.
Also, read the manual! You might find some useful stuff on there about other things.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
The imprecise eating seemed realistic to me.
Did you push up the camera sensitivity?
I never felt frustrated with the controls.
I don't think so.
TimeEffect
Member
The imprecise eating is adorable. He just whines when he misses and claws at it.
You can guarantee it hits if you throw it at his face. Hold food, call his name, and when he gets close enough, throw it at him. He'll always catch it I think.
You can guarantee it hits if you throw it at his face. Hold food, call his name, and when he gets close enough, throw it at him. He'll always catch it I think.
Nose Master
Member
Only one moment in the game was frustrating for me. When
you get hung up on the tree branch after a fall. I called Trico immediately, but he fumbled around and fell. After that, twenty minutes of shifting the boy around thinking I would swing myself off and Trico would catch me. Ended up googling it, and you just call him again. ._.
mcz117chief
Member
I actually find it insanely hilarious trying to throw barrels at him hoping he doesn't catch it. The way it bounces off is ridiculously funny or how he tries to grab a barrel that is slightly below floor level that he will never get
lol, It's not the best start is it?
I'm doing ok so far, not having any problems with Trico yet. I'm actually surprised at how he follows me, and does what I want. I tend to give a command then wait 30 seconds to see what he will do. Normally he comes to me so i'm enjoying it so far.
All you have to do is stand in front of Trico with the barrel. He'll eat it out of your hand. It's insanely easy to do.
soldierblue
Member
This game is apparently the ultimate, "nonononono the game isn't the problem, you're the problem" game.
TimeEffect
Member
There are some puzzles and sequences that People find frustrating but its very clear to me that they are simply not Paying attention to some cues and some thinking outside of the box
They will expect the ai to do something when its something that they are not correctly solvong first
So exercise some patience but if u need help, dont be afraid to look up hints or answers
Id say the ai only ever bothered me a few times. Sometimes trico climbs all the way up somewhere and then if u dont give the final command, u may find him going all the way back down. This can come off as frustrating and I actually think the game would be better off not allowing trico to backtrack like that as it confuses players on where they should go
Cave Johnson
Member
Yes, although there are bugs that affect some user experiences.
level1
Member
Really? I mean any other situation I would've bought the "playing with food" excuse, but not this time. Although I could have apparently just stood in front of it with the barrel and it would have eaten it with no problems. Would've saved a lot of frustration, so I guess that's on me. Although the other issues still stand and detracted from my enjoyment way more than this.
And yes, had sensitivity on maximum, didn't help much tbh.