SilentMatthew
Member
I bet it would still have Meelo fart jokes, a max of 2-3 maybe.
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The Legend of Korra: Book 4 |OT2| ALL HAIL THE GREAT UNITER
- Thread starter Toa TAK
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I bet it would still have Meelo fart jokes, a max of 2-3 maybe.
Seriously, I found it really off beat when suddenly Su called her out by name and she had an actual line. Along with ominous music.
Me: Okay that was weird, anyways back to Zaheer!
What character was really set up, though? I mean, we have everyone from the creators, to the actual show all giving us mixed messages about who the hell Kuvira actually is, and what we get in the end is this mesh of the Good Hitler, scared little girl, manipulative bitch, iron lady, and we're supposed to buy this with the lack of any connective tissue between any of it? Fuck off Bryke, stick to one and develop it. You CAN have all these things, they didn't do jack to develop it properly. Yeah, even the Giant Killer Robot from Space.
Yeah the tone is what ultimately didn't work when she gave her response in accordance to what just happened before. Kuvira is BAD, and should get properly punished, but in that moment, you're like "Well damn, Su."
Yeah. I mean I get it's a kids show. But this has always been a big flaw in the series IMO. You don't have evil people exist in this world, that are willing to murder tons of people -- and allow them to live or give them a second chance. Who won't stop at anything. Yeah, sometimes people need to die. Compassion isn't always the answer.
For me, while Aang's plot felt like a contrived cop out, him choosing a peaceful solution over violence made sense, because it's who his character was. It was his personal/moral dilemma that he struggled with intensely. Korra's compassion moment didn't really feel earned, and to be quite honest it made no sense with Kuvira (with what she was doing). That Kuvira then yielded to Korras compassion, and then stopped being evil, it was just really bad. The characters basically changed on the fly to fit in with Korra's decision.
I don't feel like Korra had this deep dilemma about using violence on Kuvira. She was just in her "zen" mood, where she didn't want to use aggression anymore. But I'm sorry Korra, not everyone is going to bend to your ways and allow that peaceful approach to work. Compassion isn't always going to work (she's lucky she didn't have her face blown the fuck off by that mech laser).
No she wasn't set up. But her actions pretty much showed us she was someone willing to do anything to get what she wants. That she would stop at nothing. We saw this over and over again. So having her give up because someone has more power, and showed compassion, is truly odd. That is what I meant.
Kuvira willing to accept any punishment. Willing to go out with handcuffs. And the fact she did this all on the fly and in the span of a minute. Yeahhhh.
My bad, but yeah. Kuvira feels less like a character but more of a caricature of a dictator. I blame Bryke.
m_shortpants
Member
BKatastrophe
Member
Really? I'll be honest: I totally bought it. Korra was essentially a broken person every season. I'll admit they made it a bit wonkier than it was, but it made sense to me. I went through some shit in the past couple years and I would definitely say I became more empathetic and compassionate. And her and Kuvira were always played up to be similar since the beginning of the Book, so even though Kuvira did some terrible shit it made a lot of sense that the moment happened with Kuvira. I agree, yet again, that it should have been done better, but I bought the moment.
JadedWriter
Member
Kuvira is a very determined person. She doesn't compromise with anything and it shows in her fighting. It's very direct and to the point, it's not fancy just to be fancy, if she does something flashy its because she's getting ready to end the fight. I've said that Kuvira should've joined team avatar when Su told them to go search for Aiwei. It could've been either to assist, watch them provide back up, behind the scenes kill the guy or whatever. It would've made this season a lot more personal as they learn that they can be really similar sometimes. Maybe even Mako takes a little bit of a liking to her, but it doesn't get romantic. Kuvira could be the one to help Bolin learn the concepts behind metalbending and apply those concepts to him picking up lavabending. I actually had an idea that Korra and Asami get another one of those sparring scenes and Kuvira witnesses it and just opts to join in and you have a scene of Korra, Asami and Kuvira playfully fighting other and they come to respect eachother more during the sparring session.
WrenchNinja
Member
Finished the Korra video game. Now that's a final boss. If only we got something that cool for the finale of the show instead of trip the dumb robot.
JadedWriter
Member
It's like imagining Dio playing with Jonathan's dog after the big pep talk.
NOOOOOOOOOOOO
Man I should do one. I need to play with some editing programs for old time's sake.
JadedWriter
Member
You don't like Lacuna Coil...old Lacuna Coil and not that new shit they're currently peddling?
The more I think about it the more I'm coming to learn that Korrasami was a clever (and awesome) ploy to end the series on a bright note in the face of what was possibly the worst season finale of Avatar (both series) to date.
And hey it worked. I barely remember anything of that finale because I have learned how to repress memories at record speed. That entire finale is just Korrasami.
Now for my music video I'm thinking showing off the so deep too real paralels between Kuvira and Korra. For good measure I'll throw in a Sasuke x Naruto Rasengan in there.
While I would've loved one final moment between Mako, Bolin and Korra as The Fire Ferrets "wow, look how far we've come" and "well, I think this is what I'll do", looking back at both ATLA and the rest of LoK, I think they did have several ways to reminisce and tie a lot of their stories up throughout the other Books.
For all the crap it got (and deserves) the clip show Remembrances did a good job of making us...uhm, remember the Fire Ferret's journey.
Thinking back to ATLA, we never really got a sense of what would happen to Team Avatar after the war, only that they "lived happily ever after", and if it weren't for the Legend of Korra, we would've never had guesses they founded an entire new country.
With LoK' characters, despite the finale not being 100% rewarding, I feel like I we know more about what will happen to Mako, Bolin, Asami and Korra, and even the rest of the world.
But, yeah, I would've loved even have an amateur pro-bending fight on Air Temple Island, with Kai and Meelo brainstorming ways to get airbending into it now that there are more in airbenders in the world.
Little things like that. I have no problem with Korrasami whatsoever, but one can't but resent it a bit if it meant placing other moments away.
I REALLY hope we get a movie, comics, something.
For all the crap it got (and deserves) the clip show Remembrances did a good job of making us...uhm, remember the Fire Ferret's journey.
Thinking back to ATLA, we never really got a sense of what would happen to Team Avatar after the war, only that they "lived happily ever after", and if it weren't for the Legend of Korra, we would've never had guesses they founded an entire new country.
With LoK' characters, despite the finale not being 100% rewarding, I feel like I we know more about what will happen to Mako, Bolin, Asami and Korra, and even the rest of the world.
But, yeah, I would've loved even have an amateur pro-bending fight on Air Temple Island, with Kai and Meelo brainstorming ways to get airbending into it now that there are more in airbenders in the world.
Little things like that. I have no problem with Korrasami whatsoever, but one can't but resent it a bit if it meant placing other moments away.
I REALLY hope we get a movie, comics, something.
I actually feel like I've been suckered. The whole Korrasami thing dominated my thoughts for days, and now that it's losing it's grip, and I'm starting to see the finale in a more objective light, I'm beginning to believe that Bryke pulled a fast one on us.
We got done.
Icyflamez96
Member
so who wants to make an amv to whatever garbage dance/edm/trance song I can whip up right now
SilentMatthew
Member
LoK always has two or more ongoing plots each season and it's sad that out of the 4 seasons, season 4 seemed to have the most connected ongoing plots in theory. Then they just barely tied in together, if at all. Kuvira should have been what Korra was in season 2 (Jack Bauer), violent, but well-meaning.. kinda. The mention of slave camps and eugenics all end up being just throw-away lines to make Kuvria go full Hitler and not Napoleon.
I have ragged on that Kuvira can be made a good Napoleon character for ages. Military leader, took a opportunity take over/modernize a monarch-held state, modernize its army,and well-loved by her soldiers. Also, she is confronted by very-conservative-minded nations and people, including Korra whom is a daughter of a water tribe chief and lives in a big ass palace. Kuvira going Hitler pretty much doomed her character.
The mention of slave camps and eugenics can be easily removed since they don't really matter except to make Kuvira lolevil. The escaped prisoners Varric and Bolin met could just be resistance fighters to l'imperial regime. Again another take-away from Napoleon, he asked too much of the nation. The sons that would not see their families for years or even never, focusing on manufacture arms&uniforms, and aggression against other states to secure the empire. Just pot these down for Kuvira and you're done for her part.
Then, we can have Korra travel around the Earth Empire during her 3-year absence. Have Korra actually understand the common people's plight during her travels, seeing the good and bad of Kuvira's rule. "She's just like me during 'season 2'... I gotta stop her or reason with her at least" or whatever. Also have Korra suggest that Wu should step down as monarch and opt for a republic. Maybe citing that people elected people like Raiko, despite being an arse to her, in general are concerned with the welfare of their people/state. E.g. Raiko refuses to have Republic City be directly involved in the Water Tribe Civil War.
Part of this came about from me watching the film Monsieur N, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7rE7qB7PJY&t=3m40s The historical references are so good and its nice seeing the Old Guard in live-action.
I have ragged on that Kuvira can be made a good Napoleon character for ages. Military leader, took a opportunity take over/modernize a monarch-held state, modernize its army,and well-loved by her soldiers. Also, she is confronted by very-conservative-minded nations and people, including Korra whom is a daughter of a water tribe chief and lives in a big ass palace. Kuvira going Hitler pretty much doomed her character.
The mention of slave camps and eugenics can be easily removed since they don't really matter except to make Kuvira lolevil. The escaped prisoners Varric and Bolin met could just be resistance fighters to l'imperial regime. Again another take-away from Napoleon, he asked too much of the nation. The sons that would not see their families for years or even never, focusing on manufacture arms&uniforms, and aggression against other states to secure the empire. Just pot these down for Kuvira and you're done for her part.
Then, we can have Korra travel around the Earth Empire during her 3-year absence. Have Korra actually understand the common people's plight during her travels, seeing the good and bad of Kuvira's rule. "She's just like me during 'season 2'... I gotta stop her or reason with her at least" or whatever. Also have Korra suggest that Wu should step down as monarch and opt for a republic. Maybe citing that people elected people like Raiko, despite being an arse to her, in general are concerned with the welfare of their people/state. E.g. Raiko refuses to have Republic City be directly involved in the Water Tribe Civil War.
Part of this came about from me watching the film Monsieur N, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7rE7qB7PJY&t=3m40s The historical references are so good and its nice seeing the Old Guard in live-action.
JadedWriter
Member
I swear I said this at most two days after the finale ended.
CRAWWWWLING IN MAH SKIIIIIIINNNNNN
mako's reaction to Korrasami.
EDIT: Whatever happened to the re-education centers? We saw prisoners escape with Bolin and then we see another hint when all the soldiers have the exact same haircut as Bataar jr. (which isn't too out of the ordinary but still).
Like what was the whole point of bringing up the camps except to make Kuvira as unlikable an asshole as Unalaq (which they STILL couldn't do because I still like Kuvira somewhat).
SilentMatthew
Member
There's so much you can do to keep that high, but it'll eventually go down. And aint never gonna be as strong as the first hit
Not even these prop it up as they used to
...that is a climax by most general definitions.
We've already seen that sometime people have to die in Season 3. If someone surrenders, you shouldn't kill them anyway.
Well, I'd rather than played like a fiddle than be Mako'd.
I'm currently trying to create a massive Mako related gif, which I hope will be ready in time for when the Community thread pops up. If I mange to pull it off, the community thread is going to get off to a glorious start.
JadedWriter
Member
Everybody knows this is pretty much Mako's reaction to Korrasami.Well, I'd rather than played like a fiddle than be Mako'd.
I'm currently trying to create a massive Mako related gif, which I hope will be ready in time for when the Community thread pops up. If I mange to pull it off, the community thread is going to get off to a glorious start.
m_shortpants
Member
I watched the first two episodes of Young Justice.
Wow, so good. I know it got canceled, is it worth watching or will it end in disappointment?
Wow, so good. I know it got canceled, is it worth watching or will it end in disappointment?
JadedWriter
Member
Just continue watching it. It's pretty fun.
It is fantastic. Never stop.
Saucycarpdog
Member
All of season 1 is good. I haven't seen season 2 though and everyone says that it's worse than season 1 so I don't think I'm watching anything after season 1 anyways.
Icyflamez96
Member
Until, you know, you have to because there are like no seasons
JadedWriter
Member
He should watch Gargoyles afterwards, which is something I just might do. For fucks sake I swear whenever a new female gets introduced in Young Justice you can immediately tell who she's going to get shipped with.
Sure my point is that she shouldn't have surrendered. But even if you disagree I still think her de-escalation from raging psychopath that will stop at nothing to a docile person accepting imprisonment, felt forced.
Also Book 3 was bold as fuck. You are right. Surprised they finally killed someone in such a brutal fashion. They also had death in the finale with Zaheers people. So you are right. I was more so talking about the Avatar world in general which usually shys away from death. But Korra finally went there in Book 3.
Still, Kuvira doesn't rub me as the kind of person that needs compassion. That contrived plot with her backstory and Korra relating to her and that being why she showed compassion didn't work for me. But you are right the show established that sometimes people have to die.
For me, the Kuvira compassion plot felt like lazy mirroring of Aang and Ozai. When you have a ragin psychopath willing to kill everyone with a nuke laser, I don't think compassion is what is needed. And that compassion was what stopped Kuvira is really crazy, as her actions were far beyond a person that could be backed down by compassion.
Can you folks give the context to this picture? This is damn hilarious and found it earlier in the thread.
Chariot actually made that evil opal image back in either the Book 3 or 4 thread.
To that season, it is.
JadedWriter
Member
Young Justice Ep 25:
These villains are the furthest thing from stupid. They really know how to manipulate a situation to benefit them.
These villains are the furthest thing from stupid. They really know how to manipulate a situation to benefit them.
You are so wrong lol Legit nothing in this series was as big as Harmonic Convergence. Nothing in Korras personal arc was as big as this.
It was the climax in the series. Nothing was as big or as important and that's weird to have the most important plot half way into a story.
m_shortpants
Member
Hell, Korra's entire legacy is defined by her leaving the portals open. Now that's a note to end a series on, not compassion and suffering and oh here's Korrasami
The villains actually suffer from a problem you don't see in many TV shows.
They literally plan for everything.
Granted, S2 kinda has some Light vs L shit going on in the end.
Bryke Honey-Dicked us.
m_shortpants
Member
Maaaan...
if only Nick had ordered more seasons from the onset, the series would have been great if Korra lost her bending to Amon, and then each season focused on her doing some spirit doohickeys to get all the elements back.
if only Nick had ordered more seasons from the onset, the series would have been great if Korra lost her bending to Amon, and then each season focused on her doing some spirit doohickeys to get all the elements back.
Let me put it this way.
The whole origin of the Avatar and the purpose the Avatar cycle serves (why it was created, and why it's needed for balance), should have been the conclusion to Korra's struggle for relevancy and finding a purpose (ie. Book 4's plot). That it was instead used for an amnesia plot, is a fuckin joke. It just is..
I mean honestly Trey, you really think the Origins stuff was better served for Amnesia? That it wouldn't have made much more sense for Korra's deep struggle of her purpose? The Avatar origin stuff should have given her a much needed perspective of what her role is (even if that role is obscured at times). That no matter what is going on in the world, the world always needs that bridge of balance (because of the internal struggle between Raava and Vaatu will always exist).
I just don't know how you can say the way it was used (and where it was used) in the series, makes PERFECT sense. To me, it feels like such a throwaway for a very lazy and poorly put together arc. And in the grand scheme of the entire series, it feels so odd to have that in the middle of the story (Harmonic is the biggest plot in the series, and her spirituality and role of the avatar -- ie her identity was the biggest character arc in the series).
That you have the two biggest things in the middle of the story, that is odd. What I don't get is, you have a lot criticisms for this show. Criticisms I agree. But that you are defending this so adamantly, is really strange to me. I don't get it *shrugs*
I'm really really really struggling to understand what you are arguing. I am.
Oh well. Guess we just have to agree to disagree. All I know is, I don't think anything in the series ever matched Harmonic in terms of main plot (in terms of how it impacted all the characters, and the show). And I don't think anything character wise, matched the Spirituality and origin plot. But even if you don't agree with me on that. If you really can't agree it was the climax. I don't see how you can say it made perfect sense to waste the Avatar origin plot on Amnesia, rather than being a built up conclusion to her final struggle of her purpose and relevancy.
The show would have been infinitely better. Because what we got in the end with Korra, was this really scattershot and aimless final character arc for her. The set up was there, but then it kind of just flailed (odd pacing, circular structure, unsatisfying through line development and resolution).
The whole origin of the Avatar and the purpose the Avatar cycle serves (why it was created, and why it's needed for balance), should have been the conclusion to Korra's struggle for relevancy and finding a purpose (ie. Book 4's plot). That it was instead used for an amnesia plot, is a fuckin joke. It just is..
I mean honestly Trey, you really think the Origins stuff was better served for Amnesia? That it wouldn't have made much more sense for Korra's deep struggle of her purpose? The Avatar origin stuff should have given her a much needed perspective of what her role is (even if that role is obscured at times). That no matter what is going on in the world, the world always needs that bridge of balance (because of the internal struggle between Raava and Vaatu will always exist).
I just don't know how you can say the way it was used (and where it was used) in the series, makes PERFECT sense. To me, it feels like such a throwaway for a very lazy and poorly put together arc. And in the grand scheme of the entire series, it feels so odd to have that in the middle of the story (Harmonic is the biggest plot in the series, and her spirituality and role of the avatar -- ie her identity was the biggest character arc in the series).
That you have the two biggest things in the middle of the story, that is odd. What I don't get is, you have a lot criticisms for this show. Criticisms I agree. But that you are defending this so adamantly, is really strange to me. I don't get it *shrugs*
I'm really really really struggling to understand what you are arguing. I am.
Oh well. Guess we just have to agree to disagree. All I know is, I don't think anything in the series ever matched Harmonic in terms of main plot (in terms of how it impacted all the characters, and the show). And I don't think anything character wise, matched the Spirituality and origin plot. But even if you don't agree with me on that. If you really can't agree it was the climax. I don't see how you can say it made perfect sense to waste the Avatar origin plot on Amnesia, rather than being a built up conclusion to her final struggle of her purpose and relevancy.
The show would have been infinitely better. Because what we got in the end with Korra, was this really scattershot and aimless final character arc for her. The set up was there, but then it kind of just flailed (odd pacing, circular structure, unsatisfying through line development and resolution).
m_shortpants
Member
I always thought a recurring theme in the series was the relevancy of the Avatar in the modern age. Hell, they even reference that when Korra is poisoned by the Red Lotus and she is hallucinating.
That Beginnings plotline would have made WAY more sense after Korra's depression/poisoning. That indeed, the world DOES need the Avatar, and it always will. I imagined they would have mentioned that in the series ending, but no I guess we need to make sure we get the shipping in there.
Bryke
JadedWriter
Member
Oh that sounds pretty fun. They have a pretty good version of Lex Luthor in here.
I think her personal arc was bigger this season.
I'll simply wait until I get home to properly address this discussion.
I don't recall too many "death note" levels of planning shenanigans going on but it was such a breath air to see the villains be super competent against heroes that could easily destroy them.
They still fall short of the most competent villain of all (pre-breakdown) Azula though. Hm, that girl. Got shit done I tell you what. *sips beer*
It's okay. I accept we will never agree. It's Christmas time for peace on blah blah. Not even Bryke can ruin Christmas 
EDIT:Being facetious of course. It's fun arguing. But this argument about as circular as Korra's character arc in Book 4. Shit aint going nowhere. NOWHERE. :*(
EDIT:Being facetious of course. It's fun arguing.
But this argument about as circular as Korra's character arc in Book 4. Shit aint going nowhere. NOWHERE. :*(Well, it's from the creator of the Xanathos Gambit after all.
But that is the great thing, it forces the team to be intelligent and pro-active in contrast to a lot of protagonist who just wait until the enemy strikes. I just rewatched episode 24 and 25 today, it was amazing as it was when I watched it first.
#believe
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