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The Legend of Zelda Community Thread: Timelines, Retreads and Colors Oh My

Berordn

Member
Gravijah said:
they are all clearly connected with some kind of timeline, the easiest thing to do is accept that with a game series set over 25 irl years and hundreds of in game years, it's not going to be perfect and things will change.

A lot of them are clearly direct sequels/prequels, but you could definitely make a case for TP/OoT/LttP being a retelling of the same tale. The rest of the games just depend on the basic idea of "Ganondorf got sealed somewhere," and the events leading up to that don't weigh in too heavily on the overall story.
 

ASIS

Member
BY2K said:
Yes, because getting rid of one of the most popular video games villains is such a good idea.

More seriously, we'll see Ganon/Ganondorf again someday.
There will be a time when a link will have to go underwater to claim the master sword, and I think when he pulls it Ganondorf will be revived.

There's a reason why he turned to stone rather than just dying (like he did in TP), he's acting like a pedestal for future links.


Underwater Zelda confirmed :p
 
Nintendo-4Life said:
There will be a time when a link will have to go underwater to claim the master sword, and I think when he pulls it Ganondorf will be revived.

There's a reason why he turned to stone rather than just dying (like he did in TP), he's acting like a pedestal for future links.


Underwater Zelda confirmed :p


Can Link come back as a Zora?
 

Suairyu

Banned
Gravijah said:
they are all clearly connected with some kind of timeline, the easiest thing to do is accept that with a game series set over 25 irl years and hundreds of in game years, it's not going to be perfect and things will change.
Well yeah in the general sense. But in the game-to-game sense? Shit doesn't work. That Nintendo and/or the fanbase (because Nintendo sure as shit isn't saying for sure either way) has now decided that OoT isn't the imprisoning war is testament to this.

Even if there is an official order, it will never actually ever work when you analyse it. Too many supposed links between the games. We can sort of see where the main console titles fit, but mostly only by relation to OoT and the question of how Ganon gets revived post TP or WW is yet to be answered. Where the handheld/FS games fit is another complicated matter - are the titles not developed internally at Nintendo to be regarded as actual canon or not? They certainly aren't an easy fit.

The simple solution is simply not to think about it. You can't work it out. Consider it like oral storytelling - you have a vague sense of the original truth behind the words and can use the 'legend retold' excuse to wave away any inconsistencies between games if you really want to cling to the notion of a master timeline.

Otherwise, just enjoy the games individually, minus moment-specific information like "ah, so this game takes place sometime after OoT" or "so this is some years after WW" rather than "this takes place directly after <game x> but sometime before <game y> else <obscure dialogue in game z> doesn't make sense"
 
IceDoesntHelp said:
but...but why? I love Forsaken Fortress.
I loved it the first time. And I still love when you return to it. But all the stealth is such a momentum killer, especially so early on in the game. I'm about to just power through it so I can start enjoying myself.


AceBandage said:
Can Link come back as a Zora?
Can The Doctor come back as a woman?
 

Anth0ny

Member
shadyspace said:
I loved it the first time. And I still love when you return to it. But all the stealth is such a momentum killer, especially so early on in the game. I'm about to just power through it so I can start enjoying myself.

Yeah, it really is placed at the wrong time in the game. Next time I play Wind Waker I'm going to try and speed run Forsaken Fortress.

Fucking Gamecube Zeldas and their shitty pacing.

<3
 

Gravijah

Member
AniHawk said:
i beat fs anniversary edition today.

.......at least it was free.

hey bring over your gba sp and one of the 50 link cables you have and let's play the four swords of adventures.
 
I just got done traversing Zelda Wiki because that Zant thing was still bothering me, and it looks like the whole thing was basically a metaphor (that's the correct term, right?). Zant was already dead or dying by that point, and since the Triforce of Power faded after Ganondorf got stabbed, he had a vision of Zant breaking his neck, with Ganondorf dying almost immediately afterwards.
 

Caelus

Member
bg_skyloft.jpg


So beautiful...

I hope Nintendo uses a colorful style for Wii U Zelda, I don't care for TP graphical-style anymore.
 
Caelus said:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/souj/img/bg_skyloft.jpg[/IG]

So beautiful...

I hope Nintendo uses a colorful style for Wii U Zelda, I don't care for TP graphical-style anymore.[/QUOTE]
I can't even accept any other designs besides Wind Waker-style.
 

royalan

Member
Caelus said:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/souj/img/bg_skyloft.jpg[/IG]

So beautiful...

I hope Nintendo uses a colorful style for Wii U Zelda, I don't care for TP graphical-style anymore.[/QUOTE]

Where's that water coming from?

That's why I hate when games do floating land masses. So many unanswerables that I'm weird enough to get bugged about...:(

Pretty, though.

[quote]Well yeah in the general sense. But in the game-to-game sense? [b]Shit doesn't work.[/b] That Nintendo and/or the fanbase (because Nintendo sure as shit isn't saying for sure either way) has now decided that OoT isn't the imprisoning war is testament to this.[/quote]

This is my camp. There is just no way to weave a logical timeline that connects all - or even most - of the games. And even if there were it's not as though it has any bearing on the events of any of the games. And Nintendo itself tosses the "timeline" to the wind whenever it suits the game they're making at that moment. Honestly, I don't even see how it's [i]fun[/i] speculation at this point.
 
Gravijah said:
so basically you're like the people who didn't like ww because it wasn't the oot style.
*thinks*

I wouldn't go that far. Although I really couldn't stand the people who slung hate on WW simply because of the art-style.
 
royalan said:
Where's that water coming from?

That's why I hate when games do floating land masses. So many unanswerables that I'm weird enough to get bugged about...:(

Pretty, though.


I believe the answer is:

It's magic, ain't gotta explain shit.
 

Gravijah

Member
royalan said:
Where's that water coming from?

That's why I hate when games do floating land masses. So many unanswerables that I'm weird enough to get bugged about...:(

Pretty, though.

i think that's part of the reason they do the whole "water coming off of a floating landmass" thing. to make you wonder and think about how that is possible.

Professor Beef said:
*thinks*

I wouldn't go that far. Although I really couldn't stand the people who slung hate on WW simply because of the art-style.

personally, i want them to continue using unique art styles for each game. the WW style has had way too much use.
 

Boney

Banned
so on an unrelated note, I started Master Quest and this mirroring business is seriously fucking with my brain.
 

ASIS

Member
royalan said:
Where's that water coming from?

That's why I hate when games do floating land masses. So many unanswerables that I'm weird enough to get bugged about...:(

Pretty, though.

So you're able to accept the fact that the Islands are floating out of thin air but the water makes no sense?
 

Anth0ny

Member
Gravijah said:
personally, i want them to continue using unique art styles for each game. the WW style has had way too much use.

Well, yes and no.

As fun as the games were, I don't really consider FSA or FS "true" Zelda games. More like short spinoffs.

The DS games looked like dog shit. Didn't do the art style justice at all.

That leaves only 2 games: Minish Cap and Wind Waker, which both look and play fantastic. I would totally welcome a new, 2D, LTTP-style game with the Minish Cap style of graphics. Or, better yet, a new 3D Zelda using the Wind Waker style. Especially a 3D game, actually.

Wind Waker is the first game most people think of when it comes to Dolphin, and the ability to play GC/Wii games in 1080p. And for good reason. The game has to potential to look 100x better than the little purple box is capable of. I would LOVE to see a 1080p, Wind Waker style game on Wii U. No triforce quest, up the difficulty a little bit, add some dungeons, and we have probably the best looking game of all time.
 
Tathanen said:
Where was that ever implied? The sword is there in GBA LTTP, sure. But is that all you're using? Was there something I missed in FSA regarding the sword being sealed in the Sacred Realm? And why on Earth would they put it there, of all places? "We've got this perfectly functional shadowy Dark World here in FSA, but let's go ahead and seal Ganon into the sacred realm, which we don't even acknowledge exists in this game. The realm that we as a people don't even know the LOCATION to, if we are talking about a pre-LTTP game. Pollute our most treasured of locales with his evil, and hey why not put him right next to the Triforce, that sounds like a good idea."

This is a huge and timeline-shattering notion, that of FSA being a LTTP prequel, it changes the nature of so many things, but it looks like the lynchpin for the whole thing is "the bonus dungeon in the GBA re-release has a Four-Swords theme." Which couldn't possibly just be because LTTP was packed in with Four Swords, and you unlock the dungeon via said Four Swords, no this tiny innocent thing has to imply that EVERYTHING WE KNOW IS WRONG.

It makes no sense whatsoever. Ganon put into the Sacred Realm, of all places, not by necessity but by choice? A "Dark World" in FSA with no real connection to the sacred realm, let's just have two games in sequence that happen to have Dark Worlds that are completely different? If FSA isn't the imprisoning war but comes before it, you're telling me he gets sealed into the sacred realm, gets out, then quests in search of the realm and breaks in (ala the IW story), and then gets sealed in it again? With OOT, FSA, and the IW, you're telling me that Ganon was sealed into the Sacred Realm THREE SEPARATE TIMES?

And this is less inconsistent than what I've suggested for a timeline?
My logic goes:

FSA: Ganon sealed in the Four Sword

~GAP~

ALttP: Shards of the broken Four Sword found in the Sacred Realm / Dark World and a Ganon eerily similar to the one in FSA on the loose.​

I don't presume to know for sure how the Four Sword got into the Sacred Realm. Maybe the shrine maidens or the wise men put it there. Maybe some thief stole it thinking to win the Golden Power with it. Maybe some would-be hero took it in order to vanquish some evil.

The fact of the matter is that the Palace of the Four Sword is in ALttP as of November 2002, regardless of your attempts to disregard it or make it go away. Then two years later, a sequel to FS and a prequel to ALttP comes along and fleshes out that backstory with the added detail that Ganon, not Vaati, was the last being trapped in the Four Sword.

FSA is clearly an attempt to reconcile the ALttP backstory, one that was broken when Ganon escaped the seal in Wind Waker. Yes, it changes fundamental notions of the presumed relationship between OoT and ALttP, but then so should WW.

In Wind Waker, Ganon:

- Broke the Sages' seal and escaped the Sacred Realm
- Died
- Lost the Triforce to the KoRL

You can't reconcile these events with OoT being the Imprisoning War without having to come up with fanfic-level explanations to how things got back to the way they were so neatly before ALttP came along.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Gravijah said:
i just want my one twilight princess sequel on the wii u and then they can move on to another new art style

1080p version of Wind Waker as a pre-order bonus for the new Wii U Zelda, which has the style of the E3 2011 tech demo.

I'LL TAKE IT
 

royalan

Member
Nintendo-4Life said:
So you're able to accept the fact that the Islands are floating out of thin air but the water makes no sense?

EXACTLY.

I suppose in my mind it's easy to explain away of floating landmass in a fantasy setting. The rock is charmed/cursed, or made of some mystical non-earth element that magnetically propels it away from the surface. I don't know...

But it isn't so easy for the water.
 

ASIS

Member
royalan said:
EXACTLY.

I suppose in my mind it's easy to explain away of floating landmass in a fantasy setting. The rock is made in is charmed/cursed, made of some mystical non-earth element that magnetically propels it away from the surface. I don't know...

But it isn't so easy for the water.
That specific rock is charmed/cursed to cry forever. There. :p
 
Anth0ny said:
1080p version of Wind Waker as a pre-order bonus for the new Wii U Zelda, which has the style of the E3 2011 tech demo.

I'LL TAKE IT
Add in the rest of the Fire and Ice islands, and you've got a million-seller.
 
Suairyu said:
Well yeah in the general sense. But in the game-to-game sense? Shit doesn't work. That Nintendo and/or the fanbase (because Nintendo sure as shit isn't saying for sure either way) has now decided that OoT isn't the imprisoning war is testament to this.

Even if there is an official order, it will never actually ever work when you analyse it. Too many supposed links between the games. We can sort of see where the main console titles fit, but mostly only by relation to OoT and the question of how Ganon gets revived post TP or WW is yet to be answered. Where the handheld/FS games fit is another complicated matter - are the titles not developed internally at Nintendo to be regarded as actual canon or not? They certainly aren't an easy fit.

The simple solution is simply not to think about it. You can't work it out. Consider it like oral storytelling - you have a vague sense of the original truth behind the words and can use the 'legend retold' excuse to wave away any inconsistencies between games if you really want to cling to the notion of a master timeline.

Otherwise, just enjoy the games individually, minus moment-specific information like "ah, so this game takes place sometime after OoT" or "so this is some years after WW" rather than "this takes place directly after <game x> but sometime before <game y> else <obscure dialogue in game z> doesn't make sense"
For the record, FSA was developed internally by Nintendo.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Boney said:
so on an unrelated note, I started Master Quest and this mirroring business is seriously fucking with my brain.

RIGHT? I knew I wasn't the only one. I think I might just play Master Quest on the GC disc. This shit is getting me dizzy.
 

royalan

Member
Nintendo-4Life said:
That specific rock is charmed/cursed to cry forever. There. :p


That could be the game.

Boy wonders where the fuck that water is coming from, and in pursuit of the answer just so happens to save the world from unspeakable peril.
 
Anth0ny said:
1080p version of Wind Waker as a pre-order bonus for the new Wii U Zelda, which has the style of the E3 2011 tech demo.

I'LL TAKE IT

noooooo they can never change wind wakers artstyle if they remake it :( only make it in HD.
 

Anilusion

Member
royalan said:
Where's that water coming from?

That's why I hate when games do floating land masses. So many unanswerables that I'm weird enough to get bugged about...:(

Pretty, though.

So you wonder where the water is coming from, and yet you don't give a single thought to how the landmass actually is floating in the air?

It has been said before.

Magic.
 

watershed

Banned
I'm not entirely sure I want to be subscribed to this thread but I am commenting to subscribe.

I hate to admit but this timeline business always fascinates me more than it should.
 

ASIS

Member
royalan said:
That could be the game.

Boy wonders where the fuck that water is coming from, and in pursuit of the answer just so happens to save the world from unspeakable peril.
That... That could be interesting actually :p.
 

Gravijah

Member
DoomXploder7 said:
noooooo they can never change wind wakers artstyle if they remake it :( only make it in HD.

no he meant, we get the TP wii u tech demo sequel thing and the pre-order bonus for that is wind waker hd
 
royalan said:
That could be the game.

Boy wonders where the fuck that water is coming from, and in pursuit of the answer just so happens to save the world from unspeakable peril.

Link:"Hey, Zelda do you know where the water on the floating island comes from"
Zelda:" Yea, It comes from....Aiiiiieeeee" -gets kidnapped-
Link: "Nooooooooo" -goes on quest-
 
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