Aaron Strife
Banned
Yup. If Bernie wins a clear majority of the hard delegates I doubt the soft ones would stand in his way.
The New Hampshire Primary |Feb 9|: Live Free or Die
- Thread starter A Human Becoming
- Start date
- Status
Big Baybee
Member
If he makes it to the GE it'd be a nice thing to have. I love his stance even if it puts him at a disadvantage.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Honestly...if I was the DNC I would be very scared...Sanders is still probably not going to win, and yet his supporters are willing to donate that much money, in that short amount of time? It is not healthy, and if his supporters do not back Hillary if/when she wins...than that man is responsible for the setback that will happen if the Republicans win...if Trump wins.
was this person not around for 2008 or the other past DNC elections? Superdelegates have been around since the modern party reform in the 70's. Obama and Clinton both got them. It's how Obama secured the nomination officially although he did lead in the pledged delegate count it just was not enough to secure the magic number.
Prodigal Son
Member
What the fuck is this.
I guess I'm unhealthy for donating to my candidate of choice instead of the one raising money through fucking superpacs.
I think we've spoken before in other threads. I lived in Burlington VT for years. I agree with everything you wrote, and am aware of the influx of Nepali refugees, but it doesn't yet significantly change the state in general and most people I knew in Vermont who were from there, even educated and cultured people, had very little experience with persons of color.
It's not healthy?
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
I did not say you personally were unhealthy, all I am saying is that his supporters are very passionate, and not in a good way, it seems like a cult of personality...and I honestly do not think it could end well for the DNC if his supporters end up not supporting Hillary if she wins.
Fixed. (pun? pun.)
TumblingHippo
Member
If the Democrats lose this election because Bernie supporters didn't support Hillary, then it's the establishment's fault, and they'll have to examine why they couldn't attract the Bernie supporters. I'd rather Bernie run third party and have Democrats lose because of that, than to have him not run at all and Democrats to lose due to total apathy.
Prodigal Son
Member
Nothing cult-like about it. It's passion. This is what it really looks like. It's what Clinton doesn't have nearly enough of for perfectly legitimate reasons.
This guy doesn't represent millions of supporters. Nothing unhealthy about passion. Sanders isn't our deity.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Isn't this pretty much proving the point of unhealthy?
Prodigal Son
Member
RIP Big Bridge Bloak
So long Christie.
So long Christie.
Yep. Super Delegates can and will change their mind at any time. Both Hillary and Obama kept it so close in 2008 neither candidate could get enough pledged delegates from the voters to cross over the magic line to secure the nomination. The Super-delegates switched from their initial support of Hillary to instead back Obama, after it was clear he secured the majority of voter pledged delegates.
If Bernie wins the most pledged delegates from voters he'll win. Period. The Super delegates aren't going to go against that. If Hillary wins those, they'll go with her.
The only exception I can think of is, if somehow Bernie and Hillary end up EXACTLY TIED in the delegate count, then I can see a lot of the Super Delegates going with their first choice of Hillary.
But an exact tie is basically not going to happen, one of them is going to win and the Super Delegates will go with that person.
*sigh*
I don't really know how to respond to something like this. I guess I'll just repeat what Bernie has generally already said about running 3rd party.
Bernie already said he wont be running 3rd party because he doesn't want to do anything that would help a Republican win.
TumblingHippo
Member
Parties have lost in the past, they'll lose in the future. There are setbacks, yes, but that's the point. The party must learn from its loss, or the party needs to change, or new parties need to arise.
Nothing scares me more than an all republican house/senate/presidency/supreme court, but like, it won't be the end of the world, and the pendulum will always swing back. If it takes a loss to make a party stronger, maybe it's just the natural progression of things.
Exactly this.
Bernie won't be responsible if Hillary can't bring the base together. It's Hillary's job to convince people to vote for her. No one owes her votes. The votes Bernie gets aren't her votes.
hipsterpants
Member
If Bernie voters don't back Hillary when/if she gets the nomination and it causes a Republican to win, it is in fact their fault. Anyone that considers themselves a liberal should not allow a Republican in the White House even if the nominee isn't their candidate of choice.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
That is ridiculous. This is what primaries are for, deciding what your parties majority want. If Bernie supporters do not support Hillary it is not their fault, but the failure of the supporters to realise that it is not about one person winning, it is about the party and the left side of the nation as a whole deciding who they think is best to run the country. If you want the Democrats to lose because Bernie is not the nominee than that is morally wrong of you because you are damaging the rest of the left that just wants a Democrat in the White House instead of a Republican.
Veritigo_X
Member
Maybe not for you. People are relying on the healthcare the every republican wants to dismantle the first chance they get.
cpp_is_king
Member
So Christie and Fiorina just dropped out.
TumblingHippo
Member
And I'm a huge supporter of LGBT rights, so again, Republicans winning everything is scary.
But, I still believe if a voter wants to vote 3rd party, they have that right. They have the right to not vote. I'll be voting democratic either way because of what's at stake, but if the Dems lose they have to figure out why and fix it.
A vanishing small number of us Bernieboys won't suck it up and vote for Shillary if it comes down to it. She's a vastly better prospect than any of the fascists on the other side.
benjipwns
Banned
Get out of here with that "no one owes their votes" bullhonkey! All votes are property of the Democratic or Republican Party. (I'm not sure what legally makes a vote property of which party. Just that between the two they own all votes. I assume they divided them up during some class action settlement.)
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
He would be responsible if he cannot convince his supporters that if his revolution does not happen, than they should consolidate around Hillary where progress will happen more slowly, but they will still get there.
I honestly do not know how Hillary can convince Bernie supporters that she is the right person for them, if he does not win, besides saying the typical "Would you rather have a republican in the White House."
excelsiorlef
Member
Nah fuck that.. if the Bernie fans decide to stay home because Sanders doesn't win, that's on those voters for being complete idiots.
excelsiorlef
Member
You completely understate what effect a GOP, especially one of these GOPers, run government would do.
Planned Parenthood would be gone, Roe V Wade could fall, Citizens united triple downed on, god knows what crazy war, health car reform gone, god knows what happens with gun legislation, women's right, gay rights, minority rights, and the Supreme Court as a permanent Conservative veto for the next 20 years.
It is always the party nominee's job to bring together the party's voters after a primary. If Hilary cannot convince Bernie supporters to back her, then it is on Hilary alone. It is her job, as the Democratic party's leader, to convince voters to back her. Bernie supporters have no obligation to fall in line. No primary voter is obligated to vote for the official nominee.
RPGCrazied
Member
Hope John or Bush gets their votes.
Veritigo_X
Member
John?
cheezcake
Member
And that's Hillary's problem. While I don't personally agree with people who would vote for Sanders but not vote for HRC, I think it's an absolutely condescending attitude to tell those people they're obligated to vote for her when they don't see her as a candidate which adequately represents their views and interests.
Blame whoever you want but if HRC gets the presidential nom but can't win the GE, it's no ones fault but hers.
This is exactly the type of mentality that leads to that situation. An absolute inability to see from the perspective of others and actually try appeal to them in a way that entices their vote. This post encourages the already divisive nature of the democratic party which leads to exactly the type of outcome no one wants.
RPGCrazied
Member
Kasich
Basileus777
Member
If Hillary can't unify the Democratic party after winning the nomination, it's really on her for being a flawed candidate. Yeah, Democratic voters should vote for whoever the nominee is, and probably will, but Hillary's campaign really needs to find a message beyond "look at my resume, I'll do a good job." It's becoming increasingly clear that her struggles in 08 weren't just about her campaign staff because she's making a lot of the same mistakes now.
The loser usually helps though, Hillary went above and beyond to help do that in 2008.
Veritigo_X
Member
Right, it's just interesting seeing someone on a first name basis with him.
RPGCrazied
Member
Sometimes I use their first names. Nothing wrong with that. Don't get me wrong, I hate all the republicans running. But at some point, in order to catch up to you know who, these votes are going to have to consolidate to someone else.
An independent turned democrat calling for a revolution within the party itself is like the anti-thesis of bringing the base together.
lastflowers
Banned
this 'not vote for clinton' talk is so VERY reminiscent of the neogaf 2008 NH primary thread.
benjipwns
Banned
This particular fearmongering always amuses me.
I'm pretty much ready to stick gay rights and marriage into it.
Bush's first name is John too.
Because they're so much better than Trump, ahaha.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Yeah, but he earned the name "Jeb!" from the people of Florida.
metalslimer
Member
You can get mad and not vote for Hilary. You just don't get to complain when a republican wins and shifts the Supreme Court to a conservative majority for decades. It sucks that this is the way our system set up but a non vote only helps every ideal that you stand against.
Veritigo_X
Member
I thought he earned the name Veto Corleone?
excelsiorlef
Member
I don't have to to have sympathy for people who decide not to engage in the democratic process and abandon their supposed progressive ideals to stay home and watch the GOP reign all because they didn't want to vote for someone who voted 93% the same way as Sanders.
No one owes anyone support during the primaries but come the GE if any so called progressive truly cares about their ideals they'll vote for whomever is the Democrat candidate. If they don't then the blood is on their hands.
I have no respect for people who sit out.
RPGCrazied
Member
Nope, but if you add up all the governor votes, to one of the governors, that edges him out above him.
Then they will get spanked in the GE. I'm sorry, I could live with a Kasich or Bush term if I had to. Won't be happy, but I'll deal. Not so if he wins. He disturbs me, so much so I'd probably be moving out of the US.
Then that's her fault
excelsiorlef
Member
Fear mongering? Everything I said is true.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
This is the weirdest thing - if Trump wasn't such a racist misogynist asshole, he'd actually be one of the best Republican candidates.
- Status