Lostconfused
Member
That is absolutely not true. Several major advancements in mobile suit designed were pioneered in Alex. Primarily the panoramic cockpit which became standard in every mobile suit ever produced since the one year war.
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The Official Gundam Thread of Gunpla, Origins, and 35 Years of GUNDAMUUUU!
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SerArthurDayne
Member
While the panoramic is cool, and certainly helpful, my impression was it was basically the RX-78-2 with the panoramic cockpit, optional heavy armor, and no core fighter. Were the parts actually enhanced for Amuro's reaction time? Or did they just have the new magnetic coating that Amuro gets in MSG?
My main point is that it lacks the Psycommu system, or any direct interface to take greater advantage of newtype abilities. And while the panoramic cockpit would help, the benefit would likely be relatively smaller for a newtype than a traditional pilot due to their greater need to react to visual stimuli.
And this is all argued from a position of ignorance, as I'm not that far into UC yet.
ambientmystic
Member
Which is why I didn't include the GP-02 Physallis in my list. ;D
I thought Minovsky Particles rendered nuclear warfare/armaments moot anyway (I maybe wrong on this one)? (Analogous to the N-Jammers used in SEED, which is why the N-Jammer Cancellers were the most sought after tech by the E.F. military up to that point.)
Speaking of which, did the I-Field barrier tech featured on GP-03 Dendrobium get utilized for any other Gundam in the UC era? That was one awesome piece of technology right there. 100% Beam absorption ftw in the Super Robot War Games lol.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Big Zam had it. But that was a mobile armor. If it is small enough to put on a Gundam, that would seem to be something you wouldn't want to miss out on. But a free win button might hurt storytelling a bit.
Can anyone shed light on the minovsky/nuclear situation? I don't really get it all yet. I was kind of under the impression that this was the magic science that allowed Gundams to work, and allowed them to be necessary by rendering long range tactics that we would otherwise expect to dominate the future moot. But I think nuclear is mostly a civilian threat anyways. I mean, the nuclear reactor meltdowns don't seem to hurt mobile suit pilots much most of the time. And I think Physalis was supposed to be a counter nuclear weapon defense system right? That doesn't really make sense. Unless he shoots nukes with other nukes.
IIRC, Minovsky particles only disrupts radars etc, which is one of the reasons mobile suits started to be used; they couldn't use long range warfare with their ships. I don't think they have anything do with nuclear weapons, especially since nuclear weapons are used sometimes in UC (like in Char's Counterattack to name something not from 0083).
xemumanic
Member
Actually, they were actually made from the spare/scrap parts from the development of the original Gundam/Project V. That's why Shiro's Ez8 is a hodge podge of whatever the mechanics could find to fix his suit, no spare parts. Ditto the GM head on Karen's suit.
SerArthurDayne
Member
My order of The Origin has now shipped from Amazon. Should be here release day, but I have prime, so not sure if that is standard or not.
That's why.
It was built for Amuro because his reaction times were pushing the RX-78 past its limits.
Yep. Amuro's Gundam did have magnetic coating applied, but that was more of a temporary measure than a solution to the problem. The Alex was even faster than the original Gundam in that regard, and I'm pretty sure there's a scene in 0080 where Christina remarks that the machine's been tuned to be extremely sensitive and she can't handle it very well as a result. One of the engineers remarks that it's going to be sent over to one of the pilots on the White Base, a reference to Amuro of course.
That's right, the N-jammers in seed went one step farther. Besides doing all the radar/radio/EM interference that minovsky particles do, they also inhibit nuclear reactions at a very basic level.Leezard said:
In UC, nuclear weapons are used somewhat infrequently, but it's not because minovsky particles interfere with them. IIRC in the original series, M'Quve launches a nuke in the middle of the series during Operation Odessa, and in the backstory nuclear weapons were used indiscriminately during the opening weeks of the One Year War.
Megalosaro
Banned
nuclear weapons are completely functional in Universal Century. Minovsky Particles just disrupt communications guided weapons systems. The only reason people don't nuke each other to oblivion is because of the Antarctic Treaty, and even then you have some weasels who still try to use them such as M'quve during Operation Odessa(First Gundam) and Killing during Operation Rubicon (0080: War in the Pocket). Hell, nuclear weapons WERE initially used during the One Year War. Both Zeon and the Federation used them wantonly during the Battle of Loum, which led to the destruction of Side 5 and HUGE loses for both sides.
And then you have Londo Bell using them freely during Char's Counterattack. Char and Gyunei take down most of the missiles, but in the end Axis is split in half by nuclear missiles.
And then you have Londo Bell using them freely during Char's Counterattack. Char and Gyunei take down most of the missiles, but in the end Axis is split in half by nuclear missiles.
distantmantra
Member
That's a Prime thing. Mine shipped as well. Yay for Prime!
Megalosaro
Banned
Yeah, I know. I didn't figure that was important to point out though. I just thought it was relevant to point out the missiles were detonated one way or another. That Minovsky physics didn't matter.
Just checked my email. Amazon hasn't sent out my Origin. Not surprising though. I got the free shipping option
I dunno. This is what happens growing up on ACs and moving to UC later. To me, Space Gundams have to be fluid or agile looking, like the Wing Zero. Bulky Gundams in space just look wrong. I dunno.
Megalosaro
Banned
That's an interesting way of looking at things I guess. However, one thing to keep in mind is that in the UC timeline, Mobile Suits canonically were adapted from machines that were created for construction in space. Therefore Mobile Suits in general were originally intended for space combat. This was pointed out more so in First Gundam, when Amuro first arrived on Earth. That is why Zeon developed ground-specialized mobile suits like the Dom.
ambientmystic
Member
Finally got my shipment and watched Unicorn 06 in one sitting.
It was pretty exposition/dialogue heavy, just the way I like it for a penultimate episode of the series.
The finale's gonna be explosive, that's for sure.
On a slightly related note (to the posts above me detailing Mobile Suit tech), how is it possible that the Federation got access to beam weaponry (rifles, guns and sabers) for their mobile suits before the Zeons did?
Zeon suits like the Zaku II (MS 06) and even Char's own customised red Zaku (MS-06S) were using heat axes and bazookas with conventional HE shells amongst others. AFAIK, the first Zaku model to be outfitted with beam weaponry was the Zaku III, but that was already in the ZZ timeline already.
I've always wondered how they fell behind in weapons tech when they were the first faction to use Mobile Suits in combat effectively, which gave them a huge advantage over the Feddies in the earlier stages of the One Year War, until of course, Project V and the RX 78-2 came into being.
It was pretty exposition/dialogue heavy, just the way I like it for a penultimate episode of the series.
The finale's gonna be explosive, that's for sure.
On a slightly related note (to the posts above me detailing Mobile Suit tech), how is it possible that the Federation got access to beam weaponry (rifles, guns and sabers) for their mobile suits before the Zeons did?
Zeon suits like the Zaku II (MS 06) and even Char's own customised red Zaku (MS-06S) were using heat axes and bazookas with conventional HE shells amongst others. AFAIK, the first Zaku model to be outfitted with beam weaponry was the Zaku III, but that was already in the ZZ timeline already.
I've always wondered how they fell behind in weapons tech when they were the first faction to use Mobile Suits in combat effectively, which gave them a huge advantage over the Feddies in the earlier stages of the One Year War, until of course, Project V and the RX 78-2 came into being.
Megalosaro
Banned
There are a couple reasons. First off, beam weaponry requires a lot of energy. That is why only ships could use them initially.
Secondly, Zeon doesn't have nearly the resources the Federation has. They have pretty close ties with the Jupiter Energy Fleet, otherwise they're pretty SoL. That is why M'quve's operation was so important. So the resources went to other things that were determined more important. Perhaps that is where Zeon screwed up most. Instead of really dedicating a lot of research to beam weaponry and what not, they dedicated their resources to stuff like the colony laser, endless variations of the Zaku II and dumb crap like aquatic mobile suits.
Secondly, Zeon doesn't have nearly the resources the Federation has. They have pretty close ties with the Jupiter Energy Fleet, otherwise they're pretty SoL. That is why M'quve's operation was so important. So the resources went to other things that were determined more important. Perhaps that is where Zeon screwed up most. Instead of really dedicating a lot of research to beam weaponry and what not, they dedicated their resources to stuff like the colony laser, endless variations of the Zaku II and dumb crap like aquatic mobile suits.
Well, I guess that although Zeon developed MS technology first, the larger Federation managed to get ahead of Zeon in MS weapons development when they decided to play catchup with their own MS development. The Federation would have had more resources and personnel to throw at the project, I guess.
IIRC, Zeon came out with their own MS beam weapons only a month or so after the Federation, the gap wasn't that wide.
Well, if you want to get into the background details, there is a Zaku variant from the OYW that was intended to carry a beam rifle called the Act Zaku. It was nothing more than a mention in some 1980s databook and a really old model kit, but then it appeared in an episode of Zeta Gundam in a fleeting moment where it gets shot down and that was it.ambientmystic said:
donkey show
Member
Crossbone X-3 and Full Cloth have I-Field tech in them.
Also, UC Mobile Suit Development Chart from 0079 to Char's Counterattack!
Lostconfused
Member
That's because the Earth Federation decided to not pursue that avenue of research. For whatever reason they focused on creating cyber newtypes. Federation never kept up with the Zeon psycommu development. The design for the psycho frame in the Nu gundam was leaked to the federation by Char.
Later gundam shows have discarded a lot of things that were standard in the original. Mobile suits were intended for space combat and got gradually bigger until they were 20m in size and mobile armors would reach upto 60m or more. Mobile suits were not meant for ground use and weren't well adapted to it. Mobile suits couldn't fly without a minovsky craft or some kind of a vehicle or a waverider mode like Zeta's.
Unicorn's shields project an I-Field barrier.
ambientmystic
Member
Definitely the best part about the Zeta Gundam. At the time of its creation it was arguably the most fastest, agile and flexible Gundam ever made, did not require the pain in the ass 3 piece modular core fighter system like previous Gundams which meant that you could just transform into waverider mode for storage instead of splitting up into three smaller parts. Funny that the companion support Mobile Suit to the Zeta (the Methuselah which was piloted by Fa Yuiry) also had its own Ship mode. The Zeta series really went for the convertiblle Mobile Suit angle.
Also made Earth missions and recon a cinch, and Waverider mode made for an easy I gotta get the fuck outta here button incase shit ever went down.
ZZ seemed to regress in the agile and flexible department, requiring 3 pilots to make the titular Gundam from the Core Fighter components. Which is a huge liability, as we've seen, the most vulnerable part of the process is during laser guided alignment when combination is in progress, and smarter enemies have capitalized on it so many bloody times I gotta shake my head in dismay. So many precious minutes wasted doing the combination over and over again in ZZ.
Now the Re-GZ in Char's counterattack was a step back in the right direction imo. A suitable M.S. for Amuro until he obtained his Nu Gundam. Has both a M.S. and M.A. mode, is fast and extremely agile.
HammerOfThor
Member
Yay my Origin should be here tomorrow. How is it?
sixteen-bit
Member
I totally agree the Double Zeta MS was stupid from a tactical standpoint with the whole megazord idea. I feel like it's one of those things where the marketing department wanted to sell more toys at the expense of any sense of "realistic" military use.
I know Zeta was capitalizing on the transformer fad at the time, but at least its waverider mode actually has serious strategic advantages.
I know Zeta was capitalizing on the transformer fad at the time, but at least its waverider mode actually has serious strategic advantages.
Droog
Member
I think the Gelgoog was the first Zeon MS to have a beam rifle. The Z'Gok/Zock/Acguy all had mega particle cannons incorporated into the suits themselves though and I imagine they'd predate the Gelgoog slightly?
It can also be seen in the "Thoroughbred" manga - it doesn't last too long there either if I remember correctly.
I actually find it funny that the ReZel in Gundam Unicorn uses the same transformation system as the Methuss. I presume it's sturdier than the Methuss as that thing seemed to get broken in two every other episode in Zeta. Or was that merely due to Faa's piloting?
Thx for this. Friend and I were having a discussion the other day about the Quin Mantha/Qubeley/Kshatriya and the evolution of different suits.
ambientmystic
Member
I actually find it funny that the ReZel in Gundam Unicorn uses the same transformation system as the Methuss. I presume it's sturdier than the Methuss as that thing seemed to get broken in two every other episode in Zeta. Or was that merely due to Faa's piloting?
Hey, hey, hey, don't be hatin' on Ms. Yuiry, she had her moments lol. Also, the Methuss was hardly in the same league as the opposition it faced. It's more of a support class MS rather than a front line/assault type.
Heck if you play the SRW games (here I go again, I'm a sucker for those games even though I hardly understand the mountains of Japanese kanji in the game), her MS is basically a resupply/healing ship for your other mechas lol.
Droog
Member
Haha, I'm only teasing.
Faa's alright in my book. It's cool we have a Faa Defense Force actually!donkey show
Member
Haha, I'm only teasing.
Until she completely forgets how to pilot a mobile suit in ZZ.
Megalosaro
Banned
Sure, Faa's Methuss got trashed a lot in Zeta but guess what.
She was the only Argama pilot to live through the final battle and not be either dead, comatose or MIA
SerArthurDayne
Member
So I think I've come around to the Stardust not being very good crowd.
The last couple of episodes are pretty terrible. The show might have been better if they were forced to cut down to around six episodes and drop the extraneous stuff.
It has the kernel of an interesting idea, surrounding by terrible and unmemorable characters and poor plot contrivances. And the final battle is between two mobile armors.
I guess this sets up The Federation/The Titans as Antagonists for Zeta? But is otherwise not particularly noteworthy?
But I did think the first intro was pretty awesome. Felt super 80s to me.
The last couple of episodes are pretty terrible. The show might have been better if they were forced to cut down to around six episodes and drop the extraneous stuff.
It has the kernel of an interesting idea, surrounding by terrible and unmemorable characters and poor plot contrivances. And the final battle is between two mobile armors.
I guess this sets up The Federation/The Titans as Antagonists for Zeta? But is otherwise not particularly noteworthy?
But I did think the first intro was pretty awesome. Felt super 80s to me.
El_Presidente
Member
I can't believe all the 0083 hate I am reading in this thread... MAybe its just nostalgia but that episode where he meets the one armed Zeon pilot was pure magic to me... plus the nuclear Gundam was just awesome as was Gato.. and Nina, and Keith ect. ect.
Also best opening song in any gundam
distantmantra
Member
I think 0083 is great fun if you shut off your brain and just let the visuals wash over you.
SerArthurDayne
Member
I thought most of the characters were pretty terrible. But Layzner was actually pretty awesome. Except for the suicide by Gundam stuff, but that is just typical dumb stuff characters do.
The first half of the show wasn't bad. A bit bogged down by the fluff, but fine. The second half wasn't as good and had even higher amounts of fluff.
I don't know about best, but it was a pretty bitching song.
Watching 0083 because it sets up the Titans is really dumb tbh - it's a throwaway scene at the end and it's not like they're an incredibly obtuse concept that you can't grasp it by watching Zeta anyways.
0083 has c00l music, c00l robutts, and c00l fights. Those are the reasons you should watch it.
SerArthurDayne
Member
And I didn't even like the last fight! Too much armor. Gotta drop outta that shell and take on the mobile armor as a Mobile Suit! It is in the title.
It actually said Mobile Suits for several episodes. Was that just a mistake or was it a clever play on both leads having Gundams at that point?
Really? By the end I wanted her to die the most horrible death.
Megalosaro
Banned
Eh, I don't HATE Nina. I just think the scene where she turned on Kou was stupid and could have been without.
For a long time, I hated the Dendrobium Orchis. I'm starting to come around to it though.
0083 isn't my favorite OVA in the franchise, but I liked it well enough. It occupies a pretty interesting period of time where some important things were happening but were only mentioned before, such as the re-organization of the Sides.
For a long time, I hated the Dendrobium Orchis. I'm starting to come around to it though.
0083 isn't my favorite OVA in the franchise, but I liked it well enough. It occupies a pretty interesting period of time where some important things were happening but were only mentioned before, such as the re-organization of the Sides.
I liked 0083 as well up until the last few episodes, and haven't really had the motivation to sit through it again b/c of that I think.
Loved all the designs with the exception of the Physalis(hate it) and Nina is up there with Quess in terms of annoyance imo, but most everything else was pretty good. And as you said it's a nice little set up for Z/ZZ.
Plus I think 0083 is the one that has that small clip of Haman where she mentions something like waiting for the right moment to come back. Watched Z before 0083 so I really liked that little moment.
Loved all the designs with the exception of the Physalis(hate it) and Nina is up there with Quess in terms of annoyance imo, but most everything else was pretty good. And as you said it's a nice little set up for Z/ZZ.
Plus I think 0083 is the one that has that small clip of Haman where she mentions something like waiting for the right moment to come back. Watched Z before 0083 so I really liked that little moment.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Gundam Seed HD Remaster BD ep 31
Felt like nothing happened. I think I must say that Nartarle and Ramius have to be some of the best females in Gundam series so far, easily in the same tier as Noin, Une, Sumeragi, and Yurin. Its so awkward though to have such strong characters in the face of atrocious and annoying ones like Flay. I am honestly baffled at what her purpose is other than to be annoying and just do the worst things ever, shes as terrible as Relena.
Felt like nothing happened. I think I must say that Nartarle and Ramius have to be some of the best females in Gundam series so far, easily in the same tier as Noin, Une, Sumeragi, and Yurin. Its so awkward though to have such strong characters in the face of atrocious and annoying ones like Flay. I am honestly baffled at what her purpose is other than to be annoying and just do the worst things ever, shes as terrible as Relena.
At least Mirialla redeemed herself by at least going to Dearka after things wound down to hear the truth and not carry anger towards him anymore
Well the fact that 0083 sucks might be the reason that so many people hate it.
That or it being the 3rd worst Gundam ever.
Or maybe how the characters are all like, terribad.
Or the way the plot makes no sense.
How is a character who was in two episodes and had no personality ranked with the likes of Ramius and Noin?
How is a character from AGE ranked with anything in Gundam? Everything about that show was awful, and it remains the worst Gundam EVER.
Megalosaro
Banned
I rather liked Flit. He was the only interesting thing about AGE. It's just a shame they didn't make him the villain.
sixteen-bit
Member
I got Origin Vol. 1 too. I hope they can publish all of them in English. Apparently this was limited to only 4000 copies?
I mostly just hate the characters. They're all insufferable.
The plot also sort of lounges around and does nothing for 3/4 of its runtime.
0083 feels like a waste of good animation, fights, and music.
ambientmystic
Member
Quite right.
Pretty much all that I can recall about the plot was Kou Uraki yelling "GATOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!" a whole bunch of times, and how ineffectual he was in the end.
He got court martialed, and lost Nina to Gato. He ended up with pretty much nothing. Lost the fight, Lost the girl.
Flit's only interesting when viewed through the prism of villain. If the show had outright advertised him as its villain, and had the third arc made good on it, it would've been fine.
Instead, though, Flit is redeemed two seconds before the end by nobody related to anything and we're all supposed to worship him. Because Flit Asuno NEVER has to face his problems.
AlphaDragoon
Member
You talk about the worst Gundam romance ever being 08th MS Team and then mention 0083 in the same post?
That shit with Kou and Nina was HIDEOUS. By far the worst Gundam romance.
Megalosaro
Banned
Jeez. Volume 1 looks thick as hell. I'm not sure I'm going to have room on my bookshelf for every volume
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