-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Official Gundam Thread of Gunpla, Origins, and 35 Years of GUNDAMUUUU!
- Thread starter Snaku
- Start date
- Status
Megalosaro
Banned
One of the best scenes in the franchise.
I've decided Zaku I Sniper is useless in MSGO. It does so little damage and the mobility limitations are too restricting. A shame too, because it's one of my favorite MSes.
The Zaku II with the bazooka is much more useful.
Lostconfused
Member
Effing Bright, he's everywhere.
Is that you Amuro? What are you doing there?! Go back to Earth!
GrandHarrier
Member
So, thanks to the UC timelines of series this thread supplied me, I've started to watch Zeta Gundam. About 6-7 episodes in.
Question. Does Kamille
Is Quattro
Question. Does Kamille
ever stop being a jerk face baby? I liked Amuro's struggle, it felt real, but Kamille is kind of pissing me off.
Is Quattro
lol Char, a good guy now?! Or just an opportunist? Well I guess it's more shades of grey.
Megalosaro
Banned
Yeah, Kamille eventually calms down. He becomes pretty cool once he does.
As for Quattro
As for Quattro
I guess you could say he is a good guy in Zeta. My personal take is that he is depressed Char. Now that his life long goals are complete (namely, killing the Zabis), he is sort of directionless and in a way he is ducking his responsiblities
ambientmystic
Member
(MAJOR, MAJOR ZETA and 0083 SPOILERS. DO NOT HIGHLIGHT IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN ZETA/0083 OR ARE STILL IN THE PROCESS OF WATCHING THEM)
What responsibilities?
Zeon's pretty much gone and dead at the time, except for the Axis advance fleet that could not even rescue the survivors of Operation Stardust as the Titans forced them out of the area and also thanks to Cima's betrayal. Axis itself was still en route from Jupiter, with Haman and the Neo-Zeon (kid Mineva) years away from the action. Haman herself only became a major player at the very end of Zeta Gundam.
I'd say his only responsibility was to take up the mantle of leadership in the fight against the Titans, which he eventually did, at the Dakar summit in Africa later on into the series afaik, by revealing his identity to the world and taking charge after Commodore Blex and the other top brass of the AEUG got assassinated.
Zeon's pretty much gone and dead at the time, except for the Axis advance fleet that could not even rescue the survivors of Operation Stardust as the Titans forced them out of the area and also thanks to Cima's betrayal. Axis itself was still en route from Jupiter, with Haman and the Neo-Zeon (kid Mineva) years away from the action. Haman herself only became a major player at the very end of Zeta Gundam.
I'd say his only responsibility was to take up the mantle of leadership in the fight against the Titans, which he eventually did, at the Dakar summit in Africa later on into the series afaik, by revealing his identity to the world and taking charge after Commodore Blex and the other top brass of the AEUG got assassinated.
1. He either becomes less annoying or you just get used to him, I can't really remember. Either way he's definitely more bearable as the show goes on.
2.
Char is on the same side he's always been on, the only thing that's changed is the audience's perspective. In 0079, the Federation/Earthnoids were the good guys and the Spacenoids were the bad guys; in Zeta, it's flipped. Char's goal has always been his father's goal, which is achieving spacenoid independence from Earth, which is essentially what the AEUG is fighting for.
Ambientmystic why are you spoiling so many things for him? He's only 7 eps in :lol
SerArthurDayne
Member
Yeah, I don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Kamille does evolve as a character, but his is awesome as rage driven Kamille early on.
Finished ZZ and CCA. ZZ definitely got better, and ended up being pretty decent overall. It is interesting how they apparently added cannon history for Judau over the next like 40 years in the manga. Haman was pretty cool but seemed largely ineffectual.
CCA was good. Seems like Char split the difference from Zeta, assuming the mantle of leadership but giving up hope for Earth and avoiding damaging it further. Seems like he just gave up from Zeta and said fuck it. Not entirely out of character, and I could see how he got there, especially if he was observing the shit the Federation does in ZZ. I don't think CCA presents as a very decent human being, with his manipulations and hollow personality. I guess maybe the end implies that
No Sayla was again weird, such a wasted character. Overall a good show, but
Taking a break from UC now. I'll probably bounce back in a few weeks and do F91, and then Unicorn. First jump out of chronological order, but Unicorn isn't done and I only own 1-4 right now, saving up a bit for 5 and 6, probably next month.
I agree, he was very consistent about this, and it even makes sense as an explanation for why he is basically distracted from revenge by Lalah and the newtype research for the middle of First Gundam. In fact I think he might even dirrectly address your point to Bright or Hayato at some point early on in the show.
Finished ZZ and CCA. ZZ definitely got better, and ended up being pretty decent overall. It is interesting how they apparently added cannon history for Judau over the next like 40 years in the manga. Haman was pretty cool but seemed largely ineffectual.
CCA was good. Seems like Char split the difference from Zeta, assuming the mantle of leadership but giving up hope for Earth and avoiding damaging it further. Seems like he just gave up from Zeta and said fuck it. Not entirely out of character, and I could see how he got there, especially if he was observing the shit the Federation does in ZZ. I don't think CCA presents as a very decent human being, with his manipulations and hollow personality. I guess maybe the end implies that
Even though he wasn't a young man, if Lalah had survived to influence him he might have been drastically different?
Fuck Hathaway. What a bitch. Quess had it coming.
Taking a break from UC now. I'll probably bounce back in a few weeks and do F91, and then Unicorn. First jump out of chronological order, but Unicorn isn't done and I only own 1-4 right now, saving up a bit for 5 and 6, probably next month.
I agree, he was very consistent about this, and it even makes sense as an explanation for why he is basically distracted from revenge by Lalah and the newtype research for the middle of First Gundam. In fact I think he might even dirrectly address your point to Bright or Hayato at some point early on in the show.
He just seems to resort to extremism later on
Yeah
like you said, some time between the end of Zeta and CCA has Char ditching his (and later Amuro's [Amuro in CCA is essentially Quattro for all intents and purposes]) philosophy of patience / waiting for humanity to change and going full-on proactive to achieve his goals.
ambientmystic
Member
Megalosaro
Banned
Exactly. As the son of Zeon Deikun, it was his responsibility to take up his father's mantel. After the One Year War, he should have come forward sooner. If he had, Axis would have lost much of its legitimacy preventing Axis Zeon from ever being much of a player. Instead, he was content to hide behind yet another mask. Like you said, he eventually comes to this realization when he gives his speech in Dakar (which is oddly absent from the Zeta movies for some stupid reason), but even then he does so grudgingly and by then, it's too little too late. Not to mention he goes into hiding yet again during the First Neo Zeon war
GrandHarrier
Member
Thanks for the replies. This is from someone who had only seen Original Gundam and Stardust Memory before this (on the UC side, as mentioned, not a big fan of the other Gundam stuff, don't actively dislike, just not my thing.)
I asked about Kamille because he seems like an Amuro analog, but like, ratcheted up to EXTREME from the beginning. He was doing shit in the first few episodes that kind of had me going "WTF???" I guess they didn't do a very good job of showing that the Titans were assholes. He just suddenly snapped.
And I can see what you guys mean about Quattro now. I suppose I wasn't expecting the role reversal. You saw the Earth Federation as occasional dicks in the first series, but they never came across as cold blooded and evil.
Anyways. Just wanted to give my thoughts / ask questions as a first time viewer to anything Zeta and beyond.
I asked about Kamille because he seems like an Amuro analog, but like, ratcheted up to EXTREME from the beginning. He was doing shit in the first few episodes that kind of had me going "WTF???" I guess they didn't do a very good job of showing that the Titans were assholes. He just suddenly snapped.
And I can see what you guys mean about Quattro now. I suppose I wasn't expecting the role reversal. You saw the Earth Federation as occasional dicks in the first series, but they never came across as cold blooded and evil.
Anyways. Just wanted to give my thoughts / ask questions as a first time viewer to anything Zeta and beyond.
I don't think it's quite right to think of Kamille as an Amuro analogue... that first episode of Zeta is to establish that Kamille isn't Amuro, really. Yeah, Char is invading his colony looking for the Gundam and his background (family life, [lack of] friends) evokes Amuro but that's all to set up the moment he starts decking military officers. Amuro dealt with his problems internally; Kamille's problems manifest in anger. The Titans are absolute cocks, and probably deserved a good punch or two, but Kamille's reaction to them is supposed to reflect more on him than them at this point.
Megalosaro
Banned
I don't think all the Titans are bad. Yeah, the higher ups like Jamitov, Jamaican and Bask are cocksuckers, but people like Mouar and Sarah don't seem too bad. Hell, even Jerid isn't that bad of a dude. A douchebag, sure. But he seemed alright enough
ambientmystic
Member
Forgetting our little friend Yazan? Poor dude always gets forgotten in this thread lol.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Jerid was the worst one. He would do anything because he was a psychopath with a personal vendetta.
Gas a colony? Fuck yesssir. Those cocksucking civilians are evil and shit. Hopefully Kamille will get upset (what is his deal anyways, its just a few million) and I can then abandon the plan, put everybody in danger so I can have a big dick competition. Oh, and lol, when I'm about to die, I'll totally act like I'm a superior human being because he was able to stop me from murdering millions, so I've actually killed less people than him. That isn't because we throw waves of enemies at them, and I'm an asshole that ignores any and all orders to fight Kamille and only Kamille. Not me.
Maybe and no seems to be the consensus on those two, respectively.
00 is a ymmv show. General consensus is that S1 is worth watching. Most people dislike S2 and the movie, but I like them just fine myself (though the show definitely peaks in S1).
AGE is a trainwreck and while I don't hate it like a lot of people do, I probably wouldn't recommend it to others and definitely won't be watching it again.
ambientmystic
Member
FTFY. My thoughts exactly sir. My contempt for him started in the 1st episode of Zeta itself.
Watching him get offed by Kamille was a deeply cathartic moment for me. I stood, and I applauded. My only regret was that so many other better/kinder souls in the Titans got offed before he did (especially Mouar). He had no business surviving as long as he did with his incompetence.
00 is mediocre to terrible imo. I'm still in the process of watching AGE, and I can't bear to finish it. I've only since watched another 2 more episodes since my last status report which leaves another 10 more to go. It's just awful, really, really awful and the last batch of episodes are the worst.
Megalosaro
Banned
What was so bad about Jerid in the first episode? The fact he called Kamille a girl by mistake?
His relationship with Kamille is a matter of bad luck and escalation. Eventually Kamille himself outgrows his rivalry Jerid. But Jerid can't let go of the fact that Kamille
.
His relationship with Kamille is a matter of bad luck and escalation. Eventually Kamille himself outgrows his rivalry Jerid. But Jerid can't let go of the fact that Kamille
kills most of his friends, which is what drives him to eventually do stuff like gas the colony, which is admittedly an extremely evil thing to do, so I guess you guys do have a point there against him.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Nah, he is a piece of shit from day 1. Crash lands into hospital. What the fuck is that doing there. Fucking hospitals. But I do agree on your point about
edit: Do we know if he is the one unleashing vulcans and shit on Char in episode 1 inside the colony? If so, just further evidence. And now that I think about it, I can't recall if it was actually a hospital or just a building he hit. I guess Kamille was being interrogated, so it was probably just a regular building. Still a prick.
Kamille outgrowing him and the rivalry. But most of Jerid's friends are dead because they tag along with Jerid on one of his stupid runs to best Kamille
edit: Do we know if he is the one unleashing vulcans and shit on Char in episode 1 inside the colony? If so, just further evidence. And now that I think about it, I can't recall if it was actually a hospital or just a building he hit. I guess Kamille was being interrogated, so it was probably just a regular building. Still a prick.
ambientmystic
Member
He was a sore loser with an extremely condesecnding attitude. He could've taken that punch like a man and paid it back fair and square, via a one to one beatdown like a man, but no, he had to repeatedly kick the kid's (Kamille's just a kid for crying out loud) face, causing severe head trauma when he was already down on the floor subdued by the other Titans, just to prove a point. Kamille had fucking balls of steel in that entire sequence, taking on 3 - 4 armed Titans at once with just his bare fists.
Kamille does this
pretty early on in the series afaik, (during the episode when he "surrenders" his MK 2 to the Titans temporarily) he eloquently states that he should instead direct his hate towards the organization harboring the malcontents instead of the individuals themselves. Jerid wanted to knock him out there and then, but Emma totally broke his balls with her "You've already lost" comment.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Fuck yeah. Kamille was cooll from day 1. He just
went from enraged to enlightened over the series
Megalosaro
Banned
Kamille is a kid? He was 17 in Zeta. Two years older than Amuro was.
Edit: Apparently Jerid was 24. Wow, that makes him older than Amuro by a year. I always thought he would be like 20 at the oldest.
Edit: Apparently Jerid was 24. Wow, that makes him older than Amuro by a year. I always thought he would be like 20 at the oldest.
ambientmystic
Member
Comparatively speaking. Jerid should know better.
Amuro was
just wasting away his talents; his soul "brought down by the gravity on Earth" and not being able to do his thing in space
The first season of 00 has some redeeming moments. The second season of 00 and the movie are the absolute worst Gundam to ever be called Gundam ever. I cannot overstate how truly terrible Gundam 00 is from S2 on. S1 is Good-To-Meh, and S2 is AWFUL to OH MY GOD WHY WAS THIS EVER MADE.
AGE is terrible except Arc 2 and 3 episodes in Arc 3 which are used to set you up for a lengthy example of why AGE is absolutely awful.
You're better off watching G.
EDIT: On the topic of Kamille, I didn't like him until Beltachika was introduced. His relationship with Four has the opposite effect of Shinn's with Stella. That is where Shinn x Stella made me loathe Shinn forever, Kamille x Four, juxtaposed with Amuro x Beltachika, made me like Kamille a bunch.
hahaha, I never realized that before but that's really true. Beltorchika in Zeta is a horrible, horrible character.
ambientmystic
Member
Fuck, why did you even have to remind me of the fact that they were even a thing?
They even ripped off the "alone, just the two of them near a campfire scene" with Arthrun and Kagari from SEED itself, replacing them with a half naked Stella and Shinn instead.
So many recycled scenes, what a travesty.
I'm glad I watched 0083 before this or I'd call her the worst character in UC.
The fact that Destiny recycled plot points from Zeta and SEED, which in turn was riffing off of 0079 makes Destiny the least most original or inspired show in the series. It was my second Gundam show, though, so I'll always like it a little.
SerArthurDayne
Member
So I'm basically marathoning through Seed over the weekend as I don't get to watch more than an episode a night on weekdays. Started Thursday or Friday, really dug in yesterday and today. In episode 29 and 30, I'm a bit
And on the first intro, I think I literally went "lol, boobs." Seriously, what was the about in the intro, and why did they use Dead or Alive physics. And hearkening back to an earlier conversation in this thread, I guess you can enjoy looking at the boobs, just don't go any further than that.
I will rewatch 00 down the road, but as my first Gundam show, I don't think your over the top hate will sway me from my position of thinking that despite getting worse as it went on, it was still a pretty solid show.
surprised by how fairly explicit the violence was in these episodes. We saw a giant sword slice a normal sized guy in half, and a giant shield knock another guy's head off.
And on the first intro, I think I literally went "lol, boobs." Seriously, what was the about in the intro, and why did they use Dead or Alive physics. And hearkening back to an earlier conversation in this thread, I guess you can enjoy looking at the boobs, just don't go any further than that.
I will rewatch 00 down the road, but as my first Gundam show, I don't think your over the top hate will sway me from my position of thinking that despite getting worse as it went on, it was still a pretty solid show.
Like I said, that Destiny was my second Gundam influences my opinion of it, so I accept that others can feel that the worst Gundam ever isn't the worst because they saw it first.
I'm sure seeing Wing first has had a similar effect of boosting the series in my opinion.
Not like, G, though, which I just saw and is legitimately the best Gundam ever.
SerArthurDayne
Member
That was my second show. And I can still go back and watch the "awesome" dub for the first time.
On Seed, the acronyms are all pretty dumb. And the Freedom and Strike Freedom are some ugly MSs based on pictures, though I haven't seen them in action yet. A recolor probably would fix a lot of the problems.
I like the Freedom, actually. Strike Freedom is just the Freedom with gold hands. Granted, I don't like the Freedom as much as the Wing Zero and its Custom variant.
ambientmystic
Member
And funnels. And a Chest-mounted Battleship-class beam cannon. And a Beam Shield ripped straight out of F-91 Gundam. I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot more armaments and extensions.
Too much of a good thing on a single Gundam. There should be limits.
SerArthurDayne
Member
I just think it has a bad color scheme and looks too chunky, like a lot of the 90s suits.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Gundam Seed HD Remaster 35 (bd)
Wow was all hyped up and such for some epic action for Panama.
. Anyway, like the new developments and wonder what Dearka's fate will be, he's pretty hilarious and kind.
Wow was all hyped up and such for some epic action for Panama.
Why so brutal Coordinators, even worst, firing on the people when they even surrendered, 
The new ED for the second half is absolutely ace though!
Megalosaro
Banned
Hopefully when we get the MG Jegan one day, we'll also get a Stark Jegan variant.
One can hope.
One can hope.
ambientmystic
Member
Almost done with AGE fellas, almost done....
5 more to go!
Holy shiet, Flit's really gone off the deep end, it's actually quite entertaining!
5 more to go!
Holy shiet, Flit's really gone off the deep end, it's actually quite entertaining!
Y'know, I recall from the 1st arc that the UEs(Veigans) were pretty much ruthless pricks who spared nobody and killed the innocent. That annoying ass Desill kid was the worst of the bunch and pretty much the reason why Flit's turned out the way he did. Hell, I recall cheering Flit on while delivering the beatdown to Desill after Yurin got offed. I remember calling him a pussy when he didn't finish the job then either, coz' Desill totally deserved it for what he forced a hapless girl to do. But an entire race of unrelated innocents?
Lostconfused
Member
Come on let's be fair here. At no point in time did he not say "murder every single one of them" whenever the topic came up.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Finished up Seed. I thought it was really quite good, despite jumping the shark about 10 episodes before the end. It was a small shark, but it went a little crazy and over the top there. Hopefully I can enjoy Destiny more than many of you did. Overall it seemed more like a traditional anime in terms of structure, characters, and subplot with fewer traditional Gundam elements filling in the back story, action, and overall story arc.
Lostconfused
Member
But it's soooo poorly written and there are so few interesting characters and get far too little screen time.
It's been a while since I watched it, but I think it basically goes like this:
- Char comes back to the Earth sphere and becomes a founding member of the AEUG, which fights against the Titans;
- On a mission to steal a Gundam Mark II prototype in a Titans' colony, they get help from Kamille, son of the designers of the Mark II. Both of his parents die in the process and his girl friend (Fa)'s family is persecuted by the Titans. Both of them joins the AEUG;
- A big part of the AEUG (including Char and Kamille) descends on Jaburo, the Earth Federation main base on Earth. But it's a trap, as there's almost no one left and a nuclear bomb goes off;
- People from the AEUG are mostly okay, but they're now being chased by Titans. Amuro joins up and reunite with Char;
- With get help from one of their supporting organizations (Karaba), they send people back to space. Char goes, Kamille stays;
- In Hong Kong, Kamille meets a girl called Four Murasame and fall in love (?) with her. However she's actually a Titans' pilot. After some fighting and various events, she helps Kamille by literally giving him a rocket to go back to space, but gets killed in the process. Amuro stays on Earth with Karaba;
- Finally back in space, Kamille gets the Zeta Gundam, a transformable prototype Mobile Suit he helped designing.
- On a mission to steal a Gundam Mark II prototype in a Titans' colony, they get help from Kamille, son of the designers of the Mark II. Both of his parents die in the process and his girl friend (Fa)'s family is persecuted by the Titans. Both of them joins the AEUG;
- A big part of the AEUG (including Char and Kamille) descends on Jaburo, the Earth Federation main base on Earth. But it's a trap, as there's almost no one left and a nuclear bomb goes off;
- People from the AEUG are mostly okay, but they're now being chased by Titans. Amuro joins up and reunite with Char;
- With get help from one of their supporting organizations (Karaba), they send people back to space. Char goes, Kamille stays;
- In Hong Kong, Kamille meets a girl called Four Murasame and fall in love (?) with her. However she's actually a Titans' pilot. After some fighting and various events, she helps Kamille by literally giving him a rocket to go back to space, but gets killed in the process. Amuro stays on Earth with Karaba;
- Finally back in space, Kamille gets the Zeta Gundam, a transformable prototype Mobile Suit he helped designing.
I think that's the gist of it.
- Status