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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM
- Thread starter Hasney
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BossDarkseid
Member
I would contact Chris Grayling (my MP) to see what he'd say since Epsom & Ewell voted Remain but since he's back May I feel like he'd say something like "I have to vote with my heart" or other bollocks, as opposed to the will of the people
Edit: Fuck it. Did it anyway.
JonnyDBrit
Member
I would contact Chris Grayling (my MP) to see what he'd say since Epsom & Ewell voted Remain but since he's back May I feel like he'd say something like "I have to vote with my heart" or other bollocks, as opposed to the will of the people
Mine - who's also backed May, since she's not that far away - went with the 'I won't oppose the result of a democratic referendum' line of reasoning. Even though he's an MP of the local area and should represent the interests and views of his constituents at Parliament.
I mean, that's the point in even having that setup, right?
Edit: Oh hell he even just admitted to focusing on the national rather than local result. Dammit.
BossDarkseid
Member
Lol I'd imagine the voting public would shape it but fuck it, i'm assuming Grayling wants to kiss ass and get a seat in May's cabinet. It feels oxymoronic to have the Conservatives as the incumbent majority to cry democracy when people want a general election before Article 50 (so we had an elected PM, not Brown 2.0) but when issues like this are raised it's "Nah, bro. I need that power play" >_>
JonnyDBrit
Member
Possibly doesn't help in my case that while both sides of town here voted Conservative in the last General Election, the council elections remained the same as previously - and thus, overwhelmingly Labour.
Baki
Member
Its not democratic to pull Scotland and NI out of EU when they voted to remain.
BossDarkseid
Member
I think we're mainly Resident's Associations on the Council, with a smattering of Conservatives and Lib Dem. Grayling's been our MP since 2001 (I think).
FantasticMrSnake
Member
It sounds like it is.
According to visa (https://www.visaeurope.com/making-payments/exchange-rates) it's 1 Pound Sterling = 1.1936200000 Euro
I was planning a trip to japan in the 18th but it's getting more expensive every day -___-
Could it sink more?
JonnyDBrit
Member
Probably going to do so a little more, but any major shocks I imagine would be dependent on more major political announcements, because of how that further obscures the future on our exit and potential negotiations.
iz.podpolja
Neo Member
According to this: http://www.wsj.com/articles/british...id-choppy-asian-trade-after-brexit-1467088041 it should bottom out @ $1.25 in the 3rd quarter. Relation with Euro is a bit more tricky though, because the European currency will be a subject to some volatility as well.
I imagine if Gove or Leadsom get the 2nd Tory nom alongside May on Tuesday the pound might drop a bit because both are anti-european ideologues and are popular with the party masses.
JonnyDBrit
Member
...So that bit on a PM contender stating that 'brexit would be a disaster' had me curious, and I looked into it. Turns out its a statement by Leadsom from three years ago, where she then said that leaving the EU would be a disaster for the economy. Three years is time enough for stances to change obviously (Boris worked with far less than that), but it is... interesting to consider.
TAKE BACK CONTROL TAKE BACK CONTROL TAKE BACK CONTROL
Erm so is the Mail now a remain supporter? How pathetic that this country has been stirred by the political machinations of the Tory elite. The public might have voted but they are not in control nor driving events.
Cameron did not understand politics at times and clearly did not understand why an EU referendum would leave him in a position of weakness.
Cameron did not understand politics at times and clearly did not understand why an EU referendum would leave him in a position of weakness.
ClosingADoor
Member
I don't know if Germany actually leads it all, or if that is just the reputation they have now because they are the strongest economy by far in Europe. Of course they are leading and people are following, because they are doing something right.
But the complaint that Germany decides everything is not really valid. They are not forcing others to follow. It's not like France and the UK - until they leave at least, they still have their votes in the EU now - are lightweights in the world. If Germany has bad ideas, they can easily stand up and call them out for it. Maybe Germany leads, because others just don't have solutions to the problems we face and they stepped up.
The ruling class that you talk about within the EU is also no better or worse then the ones a nation would otherwise have. If the anti-EU parties over here in Holland would get their way, I don't even want to think about what will happen to our economy and business. Same in the UK, where I don't think the ruling class would have done anything better if the EU didn't have a say in some things, and where most complaints people have about the EU, are actually faults of the national government.
3 years is also a good gap of time to see a career opportunity pop up. She's now the the "full weight" of leave.eu (whatever that means) as the next Tory leader and PM and I'd bet not many had heard of her until recently.
IIRC The Mail on Sunday (which is the paper pictured above) did actually support Remain. The Mail supported Leave.
Ah forgot that. Fair enough then.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
So funny... let's get this straight:
1. Referendum is crafted as being advisory only and not legally binding.
2. In the aftermath of Cameron's resignation, the "Leave" front-runners annihilate themselves.
3. There is literally ZERO feelgood factor about the outcome in the media, just endless FUD.
Question I'd like to ask is, why would anyone believe Article 50 is ever realistically going to get triggered? Struggling to see any political capital to be made from following through on this, particularly now the prime-movers in the leave movement have now completely discredited themselves.
There's a lot of empty rhetoric being spouted about the "will of the British people", as if failing to follow through on electoral promises isn't standard fucking practice for both parties! As usual, they just string people along on the promise until the political temperature cools enough for them to quietly get away with saying "we can't do that".
1. Referendum is crafted as being advisory only and not legally binding.
2. In the aftermath of Cameron's resignation, the "Leave" front-runners annihilate themselves.
3. There is literally ZERO feelgood factor about the outcome in the media, just endless FUD.
Question I'd like to ask is, why would anyone believe Article 50 is ever realistically going to get triggered? Struggling to see any political capital to be made from following through on this, particularly now the prime-movers in the leave movement have now completely discredited themselves.
There's a lot of empty rhetoric being spouted about the "will of the British people", as if failing to follow through on electoral promises isn't standard fucking practice for both parties! As usual, they just string people along on the promise until the political temperature cools enough for them to quietly get away with saying "we can't do that".
Because the incertitude will fuck up the British economy and foreign investments and because UKIP will probably overtake Labour.
Fernando Fernandez
Member
Monty Mole
Member
It seems I still need to keep the continuous supply of popcorn at my disposal. Never has UK politics been so thoroughly entertaining whilst so bloody depressing as you realise it is real life.
Indeed Gove/Pob might have finally taken over Joe Mcelderry at the top of my punchable face list.
The Sun is disgusting. No other word for it. I don't understand how anyone could still read it (as their main source of information), especially after Hillsborough.
CadetMahoney
Member
Would be something if none of the immigration process becomes more difficult or changes in the way they hoped, but the NHS get's privatized etc.
lazer_bean
Member
As Juncker put it last year, when there were talks about Greece leaving the Euro: "there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties"
Historically, what happens in the EU is the result of the referendum is either ignored or people are asked to vote until they vote EU
Country | Year | Reason | % of "NO" | Outcome
Denmark | 1992 | Maastricht treaty | 51,7% | Had to revote
Denmark | 2000 | uro Membership | 53,2% | Accepted
Ireland | 2001 | Nice Treaty | 53,9% | Had to revote
Sweden | 2003 | uro membership | 56,1% | Accepted
France | 2005 | European Constitution (TCE) | 54,9% | Ignored
Netherlands | 2005 | European Constitution (TCE) | 61,5% | Ignored
Ireland | 2008 | Lisbon Treaty | 53,2% | Had to revote
Greece| 2015 | Creditors conditions | 61,3% | Ignored
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Not convinced by that at all.
UKIP were and are a glorified pressure group, not any sort of electable force. The aftermath of the referendum has if anything weakened their position with all uncertainty and chaos.
If anything its a potential gift for Labour if they recreate themselves as the party of "remain". Its a guaranteed vote getter arguably particularly in Scotland where truthfully things cannot get any worse for them.
And some leave voters said they wanted out because EU was undemocratic...
Bobnob
Member
Yes my misses works for a agency and gets on well with her foreign co workers, she often comments on how nice they are. This was about a carehome she worked at yesterday.
I hope that's the case but the words coming out their mouths says otherwise, one hell of a ruse
if they are bluffing but Gove is a total fanatic to me, I think he would do it, May possibly not and the long game as you said. The whole circus is acting like it's happening, part of the game maybe but it's tough to swallow, ignore the vote already.
Chittagong
Gold Member
I really can't see it will. We'll now have a remain PM, everyone will struggle to sell their flats because uncertainty, EU will refuse to negotiate, people have second thoughts...
Also, one reason Cameron fucked of was that they could disregard the referendum, it was his promise, leaders after him will have to consider the result, whether it's the right thing for the nation.
In the end all this hoo-ha is going to be lookitsfuckingnothing.gif
paradox121
Member
You can't brand all Leave voters as xenophobic racists!
....But we will brand all Remain voters as snobbish middle-class elitists.
(I like that The Sun's version of middle-class involves wanting to send your kids to a university in Rome, as if that's constantly touted as some pivotal reason for staying in the EU)
I kind of hope(I dont) this Brexit goes through as painfully as possibly, just to see how the Sun and other papers spin it, and continue to spin it, and whether their customers will dry up.
Will literally never happen. >.>
Helensmith
Member
Her view three years ago does sound more in line with that of a former banker and City minister. Maybe she or Teresa are only saying they are set on leaving until they get the PM position then will try to remain? They could go down in history as the hero who brought UK back from the brink of financial disaster instead of pushing the red button.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
If May gets in and immediately declares that the referendum was a mistake, it's nothing but trash, I will take back every bad thing I ever said about her.
Don't be dishonest, "had to revote" is in fact "offered concessions and offered revote".
lazer_bean
Member
my first sentence was quoting the President of the commission saying "there can be no democratic choice against the EU treaties" Then I listed examples of that. lol
I doubt she'd do that.
I'm almost convinced she wants to be regarded as a terrible person.
Something that sounds bad outside of context. What he meant was that you can't vote to abrogate your responsibilities, you're either in and following the rules (and changing them via established processes), or you're out.
I did a quick search as I'd only remembered her ruling out a general election or second referendum, but indeed she is quoted as saying that "Brexit means Brexit... There must be no attempts to remain inside the EU [and] no attempts to rejoin it through the backdoor".
Shit.
Unless there is an early general election and by that point Labour picks a pro-Remain leader and Labour and the Lib Dems and the SNP form a pro-Remain coalition and said coalition wins enough seats to cause a hung parliament (perhaps only by the Tories also losing votes to UKIP) I think the only chance for Article 50 to be stopped is for the current Tory leader candidates to be bullshitting or for the ratification of Article 50 (or whatever the correct term is) to go to a House of Commons vote and lose.
Edit: The only other (and superficially quite reasonable) alternative is for any Brexit deal to have been negotiated is to be put to a second public referendum. On the one hand, I doubt our own economy and our European neighbours would like us to put the whole continent under the tortuous process of making plans to leave the EU only not to do, but on the other hand the EU of 2018 (if not later) might be substantially different from the EU of 2016 to allow for enough concessions to be made to ensure British membership on conditions which are currently impossible.
No-one is going to say that we can ignore the results of the referendum a week after it was held whilst running to be leader of the Tories. It would guarantee a loss. May needs to appear firm a we just have to hope it's cover to let her win.
Mind you, it won't matter. I'm convinced Leadsto, will get it. The Tory membership have never voted for the MPS choice. The only time MPs got what they wanted was when it was unanimous when Howard won in 2003. Hague, IDS, Cameron - none of them were front runners. The base seems to instinctively push back.
Mind you, it won't matter. I'm convinced Leadsto, will get it. The Tory membership have never voted for the MPS choice. The only time MPs got what they wanted was when it was unanimous when Howard won in 2003. Hague, IDS, Cameron - none of them were front runners. The base seems to instinctively push back.
shinra-bansho
Member
I'm assuming you mean a fiscal union or more integrated political union, which isn't something I'd oppose, but is besides the point.
The crux of your complaint is still very strange to me. Basically it amounts to a disagreement with heads of government/state conducting policy fora that affect world affairs; which world leaders regularly do.
Whether it's the EU or the UN, NATO, APEC, ASEAN, the G20, CHOGM, African Union.
It's part of their remit when you elect them internally.
Normally the devil is in the detail and the politicians can cleverly spin their way out of trouble. In this case there is no detail, either you trigger Article 50 and leave the EU or you don't. Failing to follow through sends you head on into the 52% of Leavers and pro-democracy Remainers. The last time something like that happened was the Lib Dems saying no increase in tuition fees and then putting them up to £9000. Resulting in the party being virtually annihilated at the general election.
This is also the big story that will dominate the headlines up until an explicit decision on the next step is made, and the EU is going to be publicly putting pressure to trigger Article 50. The longer it takes the more the economic hit from uncertainty resulting in greater unpopularity for the government and more ammunition for the likes of UKIP. So yeah, I assume they will do all they can to avoid triggering it but it's going to be a very painful process.
nice people on twitter:
the guy deleted it but I managed to get a screenshot... if you look at his other tweets you can see how nice he is...
I'm sorry for you guys who voted remain, but as an immigrant there are zero chances I'll stay here...
Fucking hell SEGA!
It's worth pointing out that there is the European Council, comprised of the leaders of EU members and meets occassionally....this body makes no laws and only provides direction and guidance on the future course of the good ship EU.
There is another body called the Council of the European Union (previously called the Council of Ministers, and still frequently called this), comprised of cabinet ministers from EU countries in the topic being discussed. So agricultural issues are discussed by agri ministers, finance issues by finance ministers, etc. It is this quasi legislative/executive body which has quite substantial powers and is, nominally, co-equal in legislative matters with Parliament on most matters but still has exclusive domain on a few other issues with parliament reduced to giving advisory opinions.
The Council of the European Union also has executive powers, overseeing agencies like the European External Action Service (who's head, the EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs chairs EU Foreign Affairs Council meetings). The EEAS (the EU's de facto de facto Foreign Ministry) isn't even under the control of the Executive branch of the EU, the Commission. Imagine if the US State Dept wasn't under the control of the WH by rather Senate.
That's the siuation with the EU where the supranational institutions of the EU (Commission, Parliament) have been increasingly sidelined by a intergovernmental approach pushed in recent years by countries such as Merkel with powers of the Council growing at the expense of Parliament.
Ideally the Council would be either abolished altogether and its functions and powers transfered Parliament or reformed into a true Senate of one state, one vote, one member (Council members are currently assigned voting rights based on population, with larger countries having more votes than smaller countries, this despite the fact Parliament already has weighted voting).
There is also another organisation caled the Council of Europe but that's a separate body entirely and home to the much hated by Leavers, European Court of Human Rights and European Convention of Human Rights. Britain would ALSO have to leave this body to be fully rid of all European control over Britain.
KonradLaw
Member
That would defeat the whole point of EU for half of it's countries. Eastern Europe has made enourmours civilizational jump in last decade thanks to big EU funds.
If it's just economical union nobody will pout 150 billion euros into it's budget each year.
Economical union alone would also mean no regulations in safety, enviorement, anti-terror, and job rights. All of which benefited all EU citizens greatly.
A few choice Daily Mail headlines of the day...
- 'We tried to warn you': US ambassador says Britain IS at the back of the queue for a trans-Atlantic trade deal
- Hypocrite! Tory leadership hopeful and Vote Leave campaigner Andrea Leadsom previously said 'Brexit would be a disaster'
- BT forced to apologise to German father-of-two after visiting telecom engineer called him a 'burden' on British taxpayers in Brexit aftermath
Everything going smoothly I see.
- 'We tried to warn you': US ambassador says Britain IS at the back of the queue for a trans-Atlantic trade deal
- Hypocrite! Tory leadership hopeful and Vote Leave campaigner Andrea Leadsom previously said 'Brexit would be a disaster'
- BT forced to apologise to German father-of-two after visiting telecom engineer called him a 'burden' on British taxpayers in Brexit aftermath
Everything going smoothly I see.
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