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[EmiPrime]

Cameron should say he's canceling his departure, call immediately for elections, says the Tories will run for a remain mandate and anyone in his party who wants the UK to exit to leave the party. He would win. UKIP would get some votes, but the conservatives would win because they'd get all the remain votes + those that regret voting leave + a bunch of labour votes since that party is in shambles.

Boris is out, Labour is out, all people would have left is to vote for UKIP, and they wouldn't win, and the UK could throw this whole Brexit thing in the trash since Cameron could say he won the mandate to stay.

The Tory party would cease to exist if he did that.

The idea of that happening would give me glee in any other circumstance but it would wreck the country. UKIP's ranks would be bolstered and a new right wing party would emerge from the Tory party's ashes and together they would form a coalition government.

If Cameron had the stomach for a fight he wouldn't have quit a week ago and he wouldn't have whined about immigration and pointed his finger at the EU a few days ago.

 

[JonathanEx]

A cracking Dead Ringers tonight if you want a laugh over the last week of mess: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07hj8bn

 

[Oriel]

Cameron should say he's canceling his departure, call immediately for elections, says the Tories will run for a remain mandate and anyone in his party who wants the UK to exit to leave the party. He would win. UKIP would get some votes, but the conservatives would win because they'd get all the remain votes + those that regret voting leave + a bunch of labour votes since that party is in shambles.

Boris is out, Labour is out, all people would have left is to vote for UKIP if they want to leave, and they wouldn't win. The UK could throw this whole Brexit thing in the trash since Cameron could say he won the mandate to stay, which clearly supplants the non-binding poll-referendum, and run his campaign on how the leave campaigners had lied and how the proof is that when they won their leading chearleader quit because he never wanted it to win anyway and that it was just a power grab.

It's still possible to throw this referendum in the trash, but not if Cameron quits, considering all the others in line have basically commited themselves to leave.

A lot of Tories support Brexit so such a radical proposal could end up seeing some even more right wing government take control. What's the alternative? Labour is falling apart, the Lib Dems are still reeling from the last election and the regional parties too small to put up any credible challenge.

Brexit is here, Britain is leaving the EU and we all need to accept this reality.

 

[Baybars]

I just don't even know what Labour(More specifically Corbyn) are playing at.

He wasn't going to stand a chance of getting in anyway, between his total lack of MP support, and the fact his lefty views aren't a massive hit everywhere. Now he decides to also go after the same 52% that the Tories are going after? It's madness. I mean I get he was always wanting to leave the UK, but is he really that delusional he can best the Tories with Labour in its current state?

Corbyn is not interested in the labour party. He wants to burn it down

 

[KingSnake]

Maybe the strategy behind delaying article 50 for next year is to make the economy so bad by then that the impact of the actual exit will be negligible.

 

[Jasup]

What happened to the last petition? It seems to have gathered the required signatures in march. Guess it got rejected and now they try again...

Oh, the one by Paavo Väyrynen about leaving the Eurozone?
It's not rejected. It's been sent to the parliament, and been through commitees and should be in the agenda of a plenary session in the autumn.

You can check the progress here: https://www.eduskunta.fi/FI/vaski/KasittelytiedotValtiopaivaasia/Sivut/KAA_1+2016.aspx (in Finnish or Swedish of course)

 

[Mr. Sam]

My parents just criticised Hal Robson-Kanu for not having a "Welsh" name. Before the referendum, to my shame, I probably wouldn't have confronted them about it, but I did this time, and they swiftly backed down.

My consolation is they both voted Remain, but I shudder to think how many people with similarly ill thought out opinions voted Leave.

 

[Nordicus]

It's been quite something to follow that mess unfold.
BTW, The campaign for the EU referendum initiative is named "saviours of Europe", I find it cute.

Soini saying that it was the media's job to correct the insane lies of the Leave campaign, is one of the most infuriating things I've heard in a while.

And yet, I'm not surprised that he said it.

 

[Jasup]

Soini saying that it was the media's job to correct the insane lies of the Leave campaign, is one of the most infuriating things I've heard in a while.

And yet, I'm not surprised that he said it.

Of course, Gish Gallop is the predominant debate tactic for the populists after all.

 

[Izuna]

A cracking Dead Ringers tonight if you want a laugh over the last week of mess: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07hj8bn

McIntyre?

hahaha

 

[Pixieking]

So, here's a thing I posted on my Facebook, and I've not seen it (as in, the monarchy) really touched upon anywhere else. Thoughts?

--------------

So, rather than writing to MPs about Brexit, how about writing to the Queen?

As it stands, triggering Article 50 will push Scotland out of the union, and probably create a united Ireland. Whilst both are - to one degree or another - good things, they'll come at a significant cost, financially and socially, and I can't imagine that Queen Elizabeth II will enjoy her place in history as the monarch that oversaw the final dismemberment of a union that so many in the past died to preserve.

The government that she approved of to lead the country is in disarray, as is the Opposition, and her people are frightened. Investment and businesses are already damaged from the Referendum, there is no plan to Leave, and it will only get worse once Article 50 is triggered. The current favourite for Prime Minister is someone who yesterday morning said that a) There would be no backing-out of this decision (ignoring the fact that it is not binding) and b) That Article 50 will not be triggered this year.

As it stands, the monarchy could - quite literally - save the UK from itself. Whilst it would no doubt be unconstitutional from one perspective, it could conceivably unify the UK behind a single idea - that we are not some special snowflake, that the Other (as seen in Europeans and refugees coming to our shores) are not evil, that racism and isolationism will not be tolerated, and that we are as continental as our European cousins.

MPs lied during the Referendum campaign, consistently renege on promises made, and have given us a country that is both a laughing stock, and leaderless. Does anyone honestly think writing to them will change a single thing?

At least the Queen has some vested interest in this country not being a seething cauldron of penniless fools.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

So, here's a thing I posted on my Facebook, and I've not seen it (as in, the monarchy) really touched upon anywhere else. Thoughts?

--------------

So, rather than writing to MPs about Brexit, how about writing to the Queen?

As it stands, triggering Article 50 will push Scotland out of the union, and probably create a united Ireland. Whilst both are - to one degree or another - good things, they'll come at a significant cost, financially and socially, and I can't imagine that Queen Elizabeth II will enjoy her place in history as the monarch that oversaw the final dismemberment of a union that so many in the past died to preserve.

The government that she approved of to lead the country is in disarray, as is the Opposition, and her people are frightened. Investment and businesses are already damaged from the Referendum, there is no plan to Leave, and it will only get worse once Article 50 is triggered. The current favourite for Prime Minister is someone who yesterday morning said that a) There would be no backing-out of this decision (ignoring the fact that it is not binding) and b) That Article 50 will not be triggered this year.

As it stands, the monarchy could - quite literally - save the UK from itself. Whilst it would no doubt be unconstitutional from one perspective, it could conceivably unify the UK behind a single idea - that we are not some special snowflake, that the Other (as seen in Europeans and refugees coming to our shores) are not evil, that racism and isolationism will not be tolerated, and that we are as continental as our European cousins.

MPs lied during the Referendum campaign, consistently renege on promises made, and have given us a country that is both a laughing stock, and leaderless. Does anyone honestly think writing to them will change a single thing?

At least the Queen has some vested interest in this country not being a seething cauldron of penniless fools.

I actually just looked into this, and unfortunately the royal website outright states the following:

As a constitutional Monarch, Her Majesty does not intervene in any political or personal disputes, and letters asking her to do so will receive a standard reply to this effect.
For security reasons, the Correspondence Team are unable to accept any unsolicited gifts which are sent to The Queen.

I mean, you can still technically try.

 

[EmiPrime]

The Queen is a Leaver by all accounts and even if she wasn't, her intervening would be the end of the monarchy.

 

[Mr. Sam]

That's not how the monarchy works. While the Queen has power in theory, she has none in practice. She couldn't help if she wanted to, and I doubt she does.

All we're doing is raging against the dying of the light.

 

[oti]

So, here's a thing I posted on my Facebook, and I've not seen it (as in, the monarchy) really touched upon anywhere else. Thoughts?

--------------

.

I agree that the Queen, being the political oddity that she is, is the only one who could stop this catastrophe. That would mean the end of the British Monarchy as we know it though. I don't think the Queen has it in her to risk that.

 

[And_Gignac]

There won't be a general election before 2020.
Brexit is definitive.

Embrace the void. It's over.

 

[CyclopsRock]

How many Blairites are left? He hasn't been in power for almost a decade now.

 

[Pixieking]

I agree that the Queen, being the political oddity that she is, is the only one who could stop this catastrophe. That would mean the end of the British Monarchy as we know it though. I don't think the Queen has it in her to risk that.

Mmmm, it would be crazy and totally unlikely, but I kinda like the sound of her just saying "Fuckit!" and saving us from ourselves.

The Queen is a Leaver by all accounts and even if she wasn't, her intervening would be the end of the monarchy.

Something something hates her German cousins enough to leave something something.

I actually just looked into this, and unfortunately the royal website outright states the following:


I mean, you can still technically try.

I think I will, when I get back to the UK next week. No harm done.

 

[Jasup]

That's not how the monarchy works. While the Queen has power in theory, she has none in practice. She couldn't help if she wanted to, and I doubt she does.

All we're doing is raging against the dying of the light.

Not to mention the implications if she had the power in practice, could help and would step in. Too many steps away from democracy that.

 

[EmiPrime]

Mmmm, it would be crazy and totally unlikely, but I kinda like the sound of her just saying "Fuckit!" and saving us from ourselves.



Something something hates her German cousins enough to leave something something.



I think I will, when I get back to the UK next week. No harm done.

There's nothing in it for her and her family, writing to her is not going to do any good. The country could be in ashes and still the leeching bastards would get their royal stipends and money from the duchies.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Mmmm, it would be crazy and totally unlikely, but I kinda like the sound of her just saying "Fuckit!" and saving us from ourselves.



Something something hates her German cousins enough to leave something something.



I think I will, when I get back to the UK next week. No harm done.

The queen is pro-brexit, probably thinks the UK in the EU will lead to a homogeneous hermaphrodit race that speaks esperanto in a hundred years.

 

[oti]

Not to mention the implications if she had the power in practice, could help and would step in. Too many steps away from democracy that.

There would be riots no doubt. But seeing how people love her so much I could imagine a scenario in which she holds a passionate speech about how she doesn't want the UK to lose its relevance, doesn't want Scotland to leave, cries a bit at the end and the Leave movement melts away to some degree. Again, that would mean the end of Monarchy but that's the only way I can see Brexit not happening after all.

 

[Theonik]

This thread goes fast.

Juncker last night: "Where is the plan for leaving? What kinds of idiots don't have a plan if they win?" <paraphrasing>

Apparently the Greek PM said 'The thing about referenda is there are only two outcomes so it's easy to prepare for both' everyone in the room laughed. (not sure if Cameron laughed though) Friend of mine who works for the EU also told me that Cameron told the Greek PM 'I'm sorry Alexis, I didn't make it' upon them meeting.

How is Wales btw ? It's the only part of UK I've never visited, and I was always curious to do it. With the low pound it could actually be a good opportunity.

West Wales coast is pretty nice. Ceredigion is a pretty nice county for instance and there is other nice places to visit.

this is more chaotic than the Greeks

You missed out earlier this year when they decided to arrange corruption in parliament. That whole session that day was popcorn.gif.

I wonder if some prime ministers or presidents are thinking of preemptively calling for their own referendums hoping for leave to lose. If they wait then things might tilt back in favor of leave later on, if they won now it would push another referendum to years from now.

I'm pretty sure they were considering it if remain won but at this moment it probably looks like poison to them. Too high a risk. Also introduces a risk of 2 states in article 50 at the same time. A catastrophic scenario.

This level of political theatre is actually on par if not more absurd than anything in Attack of The Clones or ROTS.

Im serious

It actually reminds me of Phantom Menace.

Greece had another problem. There was no out for the Eurozone, although a country could be kicked out..

Countries cannot be kicked out of the Eurozone. That was one of the major problems with that crisis. There is also no article 50 equivalent for the Eurozone either. A country needs to leave the EU outright to leave the Euro but no sane state would leave the EU... Wait...
(there is an alternative involving bilaterally changing and repealing treaties that would allow a state to leave the Euro but that would be 'against the rules' and the EU would never agree. The UK will also undoubtedly hit a wall there and this should be really 'fun')

I see the Pound hasn't recovered since last week. Any prospects of returning to pre-Brexit levels?

With the BoE implying quantitative easing over the summer? No chance.

How can politicans hate the own people so much?

The Tories are all sociopaths. Also I remember you in Grexit thread defending these neoliberal austerity policies when they were imposed on Greece.

He's said this for years. He openly said it whilst campaigning for Leave.

It is sadly a rather popular notion.

We need to make sure the right man for the job gets it.
(honestly positive discrimination is controversial in every nation)

"No paternity leave or no job, kay?"
Thanks for the negotiation, Lord.

Muh free market though.

Flogging and serfdom should return too.

You say this but people were posting opinions of older voters and their dissatisfaction of what the country had become one of them being that teachers weren't allowed to use the cane anymore. I've heard this one a fair deal. Many people view this as part of when Britain was great.

What Britain needs to # makebritaingreatagain is a London based, government funded, privately controlled import export company. It could be called something catchy like TEITCo.

The shitty way Great Britain treated huge parts of the world makes me wonder why they aren't all finishing us off right now

Oh but they are. China has been working on that for years. EU has offered protections that make it hard. But revenge on the UK for the Opium wars has long been part of the Chinese agenda. (getting back Hong Kong was part of this)

I'd rather have him than May/Gove tbh.

So long there isn't King Charles, we didn't enter the bad end timeline.

Queen is 90. King Charles might happen in the middle of this mess.

I would ban anime.

Vote for me.

I would make Panzerfahren the national sport. Vote for me. PdotMichael for Def Min.

 

[Breakage]

Has any prominent politician come out post-Brexit and said leaving the EU will be terrible for the UK?

All I've heard so far is calls to respect the vote and unite.

 

[PJV3]

Has any prominent politician come out post-Brexit and said leaving the EU will be terrible for the UK?

All I've heard so far is calls to respect the vote and unite.

Farron and a few Labour MPs who said they represent a constituency that voted Remain.


Nobody is going to really challenge it at this stage, Labour might after a leadership change and even then it will be gradual, depending on the mood of the country.

 

[FortuneFaded]

BBC presenter racially abused over Brexit vote in Coventry (my home town): https://youtu.be/8pcfy-Ly7Ec?t=22s
Fucking piece of shit. I hope he's caught.

 

[oti]

This thread goes fast.
Apparently the Greek PM said 'The thing about referenda is there are only two outcomes so it's easy to prepare for both' everyone in the room laughed. (not sure if Cameron laughed though) Friend of mine who works for the EU also told me that Cameron told the Greek PM 'I'm sorry Alexis, I didn't make it' upon them meeting.

Oh man how much I would give to work for the EU right now.

 

[EmiPrime]

Has any prominent politician come out post-Brexit and said leaving the EU will be terrible for the UK?

All I've heard so far is calls to respect the vote and unite.

The SNP, Green Party and Lib Dems are fighting it.

Michael Heseltine called on the Tories to fight it but that call to arms has fallen flat.

 

[Jasup]

There would be riots no doubt. But seeing how people love her so much I could imagine a scenario in which she holds a passionate speech about how she doesn't want the UK to lose its relevance, doesn't want Scotland to leave, cries a bit at the end and the Leave movement melts away to some degree. Again, that would mean the end of Monarchy but that's the only way I can see Brexit not happening after all.

Benevolent queen sacrificing herself and the monarchy on behalf of her country. I can already hear the bards tuning their lutes.

 

[PJV3]

The SNP, Green Party and Lib Dems are fighting it.

Michael Heseltine called on the Tories to fight it but that call to arms has fallen flat.

Labour might later, timing of negotiations is going to matter as well.

 

[Blackhead]

Cameron should say he's canceling his departure, call immediately for elections, says the Tories will run for a remain mandate and anyone in his party who wants the UK to exit to leave the party. He would win. UKIP would get some votes, but the conservatives would win because they'd get all the remain votes + those that regret voting leave + a bunch of labour votes since that party is in shambles.

Boris is out, Labour is out, all people would have left is to vote for UKIP if they want to leave, and they wouldn't win. The UK could throw this whole Brexit thing in the trash since Cameron could say he won the mandate to stay, which clearly supplants the non-binding poll-referendum, and run his campaign on how the leave campaigners had lied and how the proof is that when they won their leading chearleader quit because he never wanted it to win anyway and that it was just a power grab.

It's still possible to throw this referendum in the trash, but not if Cameron quits, considering all the others in line have basically commited themselves to leave.

The Tory party would cease to exist if he did that.

The idea of that happening would give me glee in any other circumstance but it would wreck the country. UKIP's ranks would be bolstered and a new right wing party would emerge from the Tory party's ashes and together they would form a coalition government.

If Cameron had the stomach for a fight he wouldn't have quit a week ago and he wouldn't have whined about immigration and pointed his finger at the EU a few days ago.

I thought the whole point of Cameron not pulling the article 50 trigger immediately and announcing resignation for October was to leave an opening for a Remain Tory to campaign for leadership based on a Pro-EU mandate. 'Only' 58% of Tories voted for Leave after all and how hard would it be for Remain to buy up Tory memberships and pick the new leader?

 

[rtcn63]

To all the Brexiters saying they'll need to agree a deal with us.

Yeah, I read in last week's Economist that even though the UK is a big importer of German vehicles, it won't help much because the deal has to be approved by all EU member countries. Germany's hands are tied regardless of what its own automakers want.

 

[SteveWD40]

A lot of Tories support Brexit so such a radical proposal could end up seeing some even more right wing government take control. What's the alternative? Labour is falling apart, the Lib Dems are still reeling from the last election and the regional parties too small to put up any credible challenge.

Brexit is here, Britain is leaving the EU and we all need to accept this reality.

I still don't buy it, "a lot of Tories"? Leaving the single market and losing banking passports would fucking decimate their paymasters in the City and probably make then unelectable for 30 years.

Saying it now publicly is one thing, why has everyone put it off though? Hunt called for a 2nd go round on the makeup of the deal and he now backs May. That seems to be the logical play: these are the options, pick one.

I think we will leave if they can get the deal they need (single market, maybe banking passports and some migration cap) but I would be amazed and they don't seem to be able to negotiate so much as a paperclip until we push the button.

 

[Theonik]

Oh man how much I would give to work for the EU right now.

Don't be. They had to basically be there throughout the Grexit nonsense working non-stop. Same applies this time. Working morning to 2200.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Don't be. They had to basically be there throughout the Grexit nonsense working non-stop. Same applies this time. Working morning to 2200.

They wanna be careful, they might contravene the EU Working Time Directive.

 

[Beefy]

Has this been posted?

Tony Blair hints at role as Brexit negotiator in EU talks that will require 'serious statesmanship'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...role-as-brexit-negotiator-in-eu-talks-that-w/

Blair is back!!

 

[oti]

Don't be. They had to basically be there throughout the Grexit nonsense working non-stop. Same applies this time. Working morning to 2200.

I remember pictures of the press sleeping on their desks while waiting for the prime ministers to be done. Fun times.

 

[EmiPrime]

Labour might later, timing of negotiations is going to matter as well.

They need to get shot of Corbyn and McDonnell ASAP before this "respecting the referendum result" narrative gets any stronger.

I thought the whole point of Cameron not pulling the article 50 trigger immediately and announcing resignation for October was to leave an opening for a Remain Tory to campaign for leadership based on a Pro-EU mandate. 'Only' 58% of Tories voted for Leave after all and how hard would it be for Remain to buy up Tory memberships and pick the new leader?

No, Cameron doing what he did was a "fuck this, you idiots who campaigned for this rubbish can sort it out".

 

[Breakage]

The SNP, Green Party and Lib Dems are fighting it.

Michael Heseltine called on the Tories to fight it but that call to arms has fallen flat.

Damn, I can't believe the smaller parties are the only one's calling it out for what it is - a terrible move.
Everyone else seems to be dressing it up.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I thought the whole point of Cameron not pulling the article 50 trigger immediately and announcing resignation for October was to leave an opening for a Remain Tory to campaign for leadership based on a Pro-EU mandate. 'Only' 58% of Tories voted for Leave after all and how hard would it be for Remain to buy up Tory memberships and pick the new leader?

It wouldn't matter. It's by no means out of the question that May could get the nod, but it's just electoral suicide to host a referendum and then do literally the opposite of the result.

 

[Jeels]

BBC presenter racially abused over Brexit vote in Coventry (my home town): https://youtu.be/8pcfy-Ly7Ec?t=22s
Fucking piece of shit. I hope he's caught.

Oh my god.

 

[Hasney]

Well at least Lindsey Lohan will be going to Ketting. One "good" thing from this mess.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-36682401

 

[PJV3]

They need to get shot of Corbyn and McDonnell ASAP before this "respecting the referendum result" narrative gets any stronger.

I think for now respecting the result is the right thing, and if things look OK it would be hard to backtrack. After a year or so of doing negotiations and things looking bleak is when it gets interesting.

I would also expect rebellions on the Tory side.

 

[Mr. Sam]

BBC presenter racially abused over Brexit vote in Coventry (my home town): https://youtu.be/8pcfy-Ly7Ec?t=22s
Fucking piece of shit. I hope he's caught.

Ugh.

 

[Kyoufu]

I think for now respecting the result is the right thing

The Leave campaign won votes based on numerous lies and deceit. I see no reason why we should respect the result.

I respect democracy, but I think people deserve to make decisions based on facts and that didn't happen during the referendum.

 

[PJV3]

Ugh.

We've been infected with US style libertarian bollocks.

 

[StayDead]

I think for now respecting the result is the right thing, and if things look OK it would be hard to backtrack. After a year or so of doing negotiations and things looking bleak is when it gets interesting.

I would also expect rebellions on the Tory side.

There will be no negotions until article 50 is finished with completely, once we've completely left.

It's too late by then.

 

[The Friendly Monster]

I think for now respecting the result is the right thing, and if things look OK it would be hard to backtrack. After a year or so of doing negotiations and things looking bleak is when it gets interesting.

I would also expect rebellions on the Tory side.

After a year of negotiations there is no going back though. Now is the time to call out the brexit for what it is. A fucking awful idea.

 

[Nordicus]

Well at least Lindsey Lohan will be going to Ketting. One "good" thing from this mess.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-36682401

I just could not get over the thought that that question in parliament was merely a joke when I saw it.

This past week has been toying with my sense of fucking reality!!!

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Question - if both parties feel like they MUST do something about immigration because the electorate demands it, isn't the easier solution to look at measures to reduce non-EU immigration? I'm basing that on the fact that it accounts for a larger proportion of immigrants than those within the EU and whilst not consequence-free, might give us a means to avoid the Brexit shitstorm? It's a possible way or saying that we didn't follow the vote, we followed the route cause of it? I think the whole thing is a nonsense either way, but just a thought.

Sure you could close that valve more I guess, but non-EU immigration already has a very high bar.

Wait, I'm mixing my metaphors...