Theoretically, in a bad scenario, wages of skilled workers would go up due to the money itself being worth less and as that kind of workforce is valuable, they could get a raise... but once again, the people losing out would be the poorest as benefits and unskilled work certainly wouldn't be raised.
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The UK votes to leave the European Union
- Thread starter Spring Drive
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Theoretically, in a bad scenario, wages of skilled workers would go up due to the money itself being worth less and as that kind of workforce is valuable, they could get a raise... but once again, the people losing out would be the poorest as benefits and unskilled work certainly wouldn't be raised.
Thing is - I'm naturally more capitalist than socialist - and I chose to vote for the LDs because I don't believe outright majority governments are good for anyone. What you say is true - they did stop bad things happening - it's like adding a safety breaker. It's the best we could hope for without PR replacing FPTP.
There is one thing Germany wants more than free trade with UK: And that is to prevent the EU from falling apart. Giving the UK a deal that isn't worse than before - and considerably so - shows other countries that you can leave the EU while still enjoying all of the tasty benefits, which could have devastating effects on the Union.
We don't actually need to discuss this anyway, since Handelsblatt already got hands on Germany's paper detailing Schäuble's proposed way to treat the UK from now on: The goal is to make the UK a "associated partner country" eventually, but the paper also details that 1) this is something the UK actually has to fight for and 2) that it is indeed planned to let the UK suffer so to speak in order to scare other countries from following into UK's footsteps. If you think that the UK somehow gets a deal as good or even better than what it had now, then I don't know what to tell you. You are delusional.
And this is just what Germany wants. You can expect that other countries see things likely more drastically and not less.
Uh.
The president of the parliament gets elected by the European parliament, and the European parliament gets elected by ... the citizens of Europe. He's democratically legitimated.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
How about the salary of the people who have already been let go due to the economic uncertainty? Sure helped them out too
EU treaties and laws will still apply during the 2 years (or less) of negotiations. (and until Art. 50 comes into play, of course)
The recently agreed exceptional terms for the UK have been retracted, however.
So they can ignore the expressed will of the people on the claimed basis of a mandate from their constituency. That sure would be interesting to see.
I wonder how that'd work here in Hull. Leave won by 67% to 33%, but Labour MPs here would certainly stand on a pro EU platform in future, and easily win.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Rather than say that many of the Leave voters are xenophobic racists, I think it's way more accurate that many are simply ignorant. Heck, I think that the voting regrets of many, coupled with the 750% increase of "What happens if UK leaves the EU?" search in Google are evidence to this.
SmoothOperator
Banned
LOL I went to school, I work in an area which has been shaken upside down by a European policy so I know my lesson and I also know what the EU is all about, I know who Robert Schuman is and I know the Germans, UK or even Spain don't have the same interests as us thus making this Chimera completely useless and unatural.
Wonder how long before someone comes and tells me how EU or EEC has been maintaning peace across the continent.
They don't the same as me so they're just ignorants right ? EU is good for nobody except traders, drug dealers and rich people spending their weekends in a new capital every month thinking they're the masters of this world : Try to look at things outside from your perspective.
@Skynewsbreak
German finance ministry strategy paper has recommended making the UK an "associated partner country" of the EU following leave vote #EUref
@SkyNewsBreak
U.S. President Barack Obama says he has spoken to David Cameron and the UK is committed to an orderly transition out of the EU #EUref
@SkyNewsBreak
U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry says he wants the U.S. to remain "engaged, but calm" during UK's transition following #EUref leave vote
German finance ministry strategy paper has recommended making the UK an "associated partner country" of the EU following leave vote #EUref
@SkyNewsBreak
U.S. President Barack Obama says he has spoken to David Cameron and the UK is committed to an orderly transition out of the EU #EUref
@SkyNewsBreak
U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry says he wants the U.S. to remain "engaged, but calm" during UK's transition following #EUref leave vote
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Of course they will and they should. And this is coming from someone who opposed it the first time around.
The destruction of a centuries old union will be the legacy of the grey haired xenophobic wankers that voted leave.
What policy has lead to what disaster? Be as specific as possible.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Jokes on the brits. Now that the UK and EU won't have an immigration agreement, there will be no way to get the pakistanis out of the country. They're stuck there, and they're just going to multiply until UK is an isolated, Muslim majority country. Anglos will try to white-flight away but since Scotland and Ireland will be gone, too, there will be nowhere for them to go. Delicious, delicious irony.
geordiemp
Member
Fair enough, you make us suffer, we make you suffer. Works both ways if thats the way germany wants to be friends.
You read back what you typed, does not look good on friendly Germany does it. You really think Uk will keep buying german cars if Germany hates us ? Really ?
Uk just asked to be autonomous and have free fair trade and friendship with its allies. Maybe thats too much for some countries...?
If it gets nasty, I just see Eu breaking up and everyone for themselves.
Stop with your facts and actual data.
Yeah, a strong left winged third party has been a great thing in this country for a long while, even if the it's obviously a two party system for whoever ultimately rules. Hopefully they recover for the next GE.
i dont know about other countries but in my country, when we adopted the currency, we were all hearing stuf like prices would stay the same, but low and behold, something that was 60 whatever, became 60, when it should have become 30, and then wages never adjusted to 50% increase in prices on everything, we began paying more while receiving the same amount on all of our paychecks, i dont know about you, but thats a major punch in the gut of everyone
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
I'm disappointed, as much as I feel the UK has full entitlement to not want to move towards an ever closer EU.
Scotland cannot have referendums every few years until they vote out. It's exactly like double jeopardy, you try something until you get the result you want. I can understand the disillusionment, however.
Northern Ireland did not want this either, and it's important to note that a majority didn't want this, while a majority is not Catholic, nor are they separatist. I think this is something that a majority of Northern Irish citizens can agree they are disappointed on, and I hope everything can stay calm there. I have faith.
Gibraltar is now hearing asinine statements from the Spanish government because of this, and will suffer for it, despite their amazing pride in being British. As proud as they are of their status and will remain, they are not proud of this.
Wales and Cornwall, two Celtic eras that receive EU funds and won't receive them now....I'm really confused right now. Maybe it says something about how fairly the English generally govern (minus austerity) that you guys would vote against your best interests. That's a credit to the English people. After all, if it weren't for the heavy handed reaction to the 1916 Easter Uprising, Ireland might not even have left.
London will suffer financially, unfortunately, because of this. The EU does not want to fall apart, so the UK isn't going to get amazing terms.
Provincial England, this was not well thought out, the Kingdom is not as United as it was before yesterday.
Scotland cannot have referendums every few years until they vote out. It's exactly like double jeopardy, you try something until you get the result you want. I can understand the disillusionment, however.
Northern Ireland did not want this either, and it's important to note that a majority didn't want this, while a majority is not Catholic, nor are they separatist. I think this is something that a majority of Northern Irish citizens can agree they are disappointed on, and I hope everything can stay calm there. I have faith.
Gibraltar is now hearing asinine statements from the Spanish government because of this, and will suffer for it, despite their amazing pride in being British. As proud as they are of their status and will remain, they are not proud of this.
Wales and Cornwall, two Celtic eras that receive EU funds and won't receive them now....I'm really confused right now. Maybe it says something about how fairly the English generally govern (minus austerity) that you guys would vote against your best interests. That's a credit to the English people. After all, if it weren't for the heavy handed reaction to the 1916 Easter Uprising, Ireland might not even have left.
London will suffer financially, unfortunately, because of this. The EU does not want to fall apart, so the UK isn't going to get amazing terms.
Provincial England, this was not well thought out, the Kingdom is not as United as it was before yesterday.
pixelation
Member
Yeah, i was saying before that Trump will win. This only makes me even surer of Trump being the next U.S. president... God save us...
Little Old Man
Member
Already seen one bitter Corbyn supporter, lashing out at anyone who might dare question his leadership. Essentially calling and detractors Blairites, who he will strike off his friend list.
Bollocks to that. Why was Leave so much louder on Twitter before this then? Why were they then "comfortable"?
Some of you in this thread are just appalling. Honestly. I get that there has been a big tendency towards Remain on GAF, but the amount of you with this holier than thou attitude now that Leave won, the insults, the spite. So many of you boiling Leave down to pure racism, pushing this simplistic dialogue, this race to the simplest soundbite insult, deliberately ignoring the myriad other reasons to vote Leave.
So many of you refusing to acknowledge the point of view of millions of your fellow countrymen, instead choosing to label them as fools, idiots.
Worst of all are the spiteful, pathetic children among you willing chaos upon the country just so you can say 'told you so!'. That appalls me.
I voted leave. It was not an easy decision to make, I spent a lot of time looking at the pros and cons. I read a lot of stuff on both sides from respected economists and commentators and decided, as a rational adult that leaving the EU was the best long term decision. It's in many ways a leap in the dark and extrication from the EU tangle will take years and may well not go smoothly. The balance will shift and be unstable for a while, but I believe that balance will be found again, in different ways to the current EU set up.
I genuinely believe that this is an opportunity for long term growth and change in so many areas, economy, controlled immigration, trade.
Or maybe I'm just a dumb racist.
So many of you refusing to acknowledge the point of view of millions of your fellow countrymen, instead choosing to label them as fools, idiots.
Worst of all are the spiteful, pathetic children among you willing chaos upon the country just so you can say 'told you so!'. That appalls me.
I voted leave. It was not an easy decision to make, I spent a lot of time looking at the pros and cons. I read a lot of stuff on both sides from respected economists and commentators and decided, as a rational adult that leaving the EU was the best long term decision. It's in many ways a leap in the dark and extrication from the EU tangle will take years and may well not go smoothly. The balance will shift and be unstable for a while, but I believe that balance will be found again, in different ways to the current EU set up.
I genuinely believe that this is an opportunity for long term growth and change in so many areas, economy, controlled immigration, trade.
Or maybe I'm just a dumb racist.
Literally half my office is EU nationals right now. Poor guys were pretty gutting to have their country of residence telling them to get the f**k out.
Viruz
Member
That is not what I'm talking about:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_European_Constitution_referendum,_2005
Deniying "democracy" lol
please check
R_thanatos
Member
Europe is not an obscure organisation. It has rules , regulations and they are made public.
Accusing the lack of knowledge on the organisation when it's made public to every citizen of the EU is ridiculous.
People got around to prevent many policies , and many got debated at the parliament , other made lobbys for each thing.TAFTA is yet another thing that people have the right to say no..and i've personnaly seen Numerous articles and news reports on my many medias..
Was that supposed to mean anything ?
Europe had a "SOPA"-like law that was dropped too. again, it's common knowledge that is open to everyone and many organisation to talk about it. It's not europe fault that some people refuse to hear about it.
"It's not about Xenophobia! I'm not afraid of immigrants! I voted Leave and I'm not a racist!"
My friends, if all the Leave voters weren't xenophobes Remain would have won. I'm not saying that YOU are racist, but it's pretty clear why Leave won. Part of the following process is to see why this happened to make things right. Closing your eyes and ears and saying "WE'RE NOT RACIST" doesn't help anyone.
My friends, if all the Leave voters weren't xenophobes Remain would have won. I'm not saying that YOU are racist, but it's pretty clear why Leave won. Part of the following process is to see why this happened to make things right. Closing your eyes and ears and saying "WE'RE NOT RACIST" doesn't help anyone.
GamerMax73
Member
Article 50 isn't 2 years, it's up to 2 year. Agreements can be wind up quicker. 2 years is the deadline unless there is subsequently an agreement to extend it. We remain full members of the EU with everything that entails until such time as the negotiations and agreements to leave are complete - when ever that takes place.
If no agreements are completed within the 2 years, and no extensions are agreed to the time limit, then the 2 years becomes a hard deadline after which we are automatically non-members regardless of the state of the negotiations.
Also, we don't have to use article 50 at all. We can negotiate our exit without instigating article 50.
As for when article 50 is likely to be asked for? Not until after the next general election. I think now both Tory and Labour will be have leadership contests. After the those contests I think a general election will be called. After that there are French and German elections and timing might be put off till after them.
So November 2017 is the earliest. Add 2 years if it goes full term and we're looking at November 2019.
We'll be close to another UK general election in the 2020-22 time frame after that.
So we're the best part of a decade before the fallout of yesterday really starts to settle down and the shape of the new future is going to be properly known.
In that time we're likely to see Scotland gain independence which in turn will have a knock on effect to any negotiations. Northern Ireland is a powder keg waiting to go off, we don't have enough time and distance from the troubles for that one.
Add to that 4-6 years hence is a long time for the EU and in that time it will reshape itself without the UK. There are real possibilities of further EU exists.
Depends. No one really knows exactly how things are going to shake out; there is a reason everyone is continually touting the 'This is unprecedented! line. That said, the UK is going to have to renegotiate a whole host of trade deals and some such. How these deals effect migration, etc, are still unknown. Despite that, I'm actually not so doom and gloom about the UK as many others here.
The EU? It depends on not just their negotiations with the UK. The EU still has massive issues; while it is not getting the coverage it was years past, Greece is still a ticking time bomb. Portugal, Italy, and Ireland have massive debt issues, among other things. With the UK stepping away, this means more pressure on states like Germany and France to keep the cycle going. With the UK gone, will anyone else step up? Can anyone else do so?
It's sort of a strange situation with the EU I think. Take a hard stance with the UK in negotiations, and you have to devote extra energy towards it and by not having a deal in place, you take resources away when the aforementioned debt and demographic issues with several of the Euro members come to bear. Which means extra pressure on Germany and France when they can ill afford it; they also have to deal with negotiating trade deals with the US and others, as well as deal with a resurgent Russia on the other side.
Take a softer stance and you risk other nations having their own exit if the UK comes out decent after all this. Which may or may not be the worst thing; depending on who leaves and who you ask.
Then again, I was already bearish on the future prospects of the EU irregardless of a Brexit. This just makes me more bearish about the continent over the next 10-20 years.
Just my take on the situation.
Euh, we don't know what made you an ignorant bigot, sorry.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
I think cooler heads will prevail.
CitizenVectron
Member
Part of the reason they stayed, however, was that there was an implied threat from England that if Scotland left they would not be allowed in the EU easily. So the only way to stay was to remain in the UK. That however is exactly the opposite of what happened. I would say that is a large material change in agreement between the nations.
QuicheFontaine
Member
You keep saying ratification. I really don't know what you're talking about with respect to this referendum.
I feel like I've explained it as well as I can at this point, but if this helps think of it this way: if the EU Commission invokes Art. 50 now, or takes Art. 50 to have been invoked somehow, wouldn't that amount to bypassing the UK government, i.e. the democratically elected government of a member state? Do you really believe that is a reasonable reading of the text?
As I say, this is on ice for a while so everyone should just calm down. Dave is in charge for three more months but won't be negotiating. Then there will be a leadership election in the Conservative party. That new Prime Minister will then either invoke Art. 50 or (and I think this is probably the most likely course of action), hold a General Election in which they set out their vision for post-Brexit Britain and seek a mandate on that vision.
All in all, I predict Art. 50 triggered either later this year or early next year, and there's a possibility of it not being triggered at all in the GE scenario, if the opposition runs on a "stay in the EU" platform and wins a majority.
call_kotaku
Member
Isn't China the market that matters for German cars?
Also, won't they be glad that they don't need to keep making the steering wheel on a different side?
Love fun facts, thanks.
The Shadow
Member
What have you done UK? WTF have you done? O_O
ProfessorMoran
Member
So if they're over 65, they're not allowed to vote?
In a democratic country, everyone at or over the voting age should get a say in what their country should do, whether it's regarding allowing a massive refugee influx into the country or whether their country should remain in a massive bureaucracy like the EU, instead of having decisions made for them because somehow high level bureaucrats are more qualified.
It's called democracy. Your mom or dad's vote should count as much as yours, that's why everybody gets to vote, you get to persuade others but you don't get to decide for them, the majority wins and let the chips fall where they may, there's always a chance you don't get your way, unless you don't believe in democracy at all and you think you should be making decisions for everyone else.
Yeah I agree. The leave folk that I've seen interviewed today just come across as people who consume daily mail headlines everyday. They think out means an all white England again. No matter how they dress it up it's about getting rid of foreigners.
I wonder when you're going to realize that that's the usual way of doing business with countries outside of the European Union who seek access to the EU single market without actually becoming an EU member.
Let's ask the Norwegians how that works, perhaps:
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-reality-uk-voters-seduced-by-norwegian-model
Those are the rules and they're not going to be any different for the UK.
Viruz
Member
check below monsieur
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I definitely agree that simplistic dialogue and division is a force for ill in society and that we're better together, presenting a united front and working to find common interests and advance them.
Right, but many of these ignorant people just wanted less brown folks coming over. I don't think Leave was entirely a bad thing, but a huge contingent of Leavers voted for all the wrong reasons.
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