And the EU laws. It's like the only thing that would change would be we'd have no say, but hey, TAKE BACK CONTROL1!!1!
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The UK votes to leave the European Union
- Thread starter Spring Drive
- Start date
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And the EU laws. It's like the only thing that would change would be we'd have no say, but hey, TAKE BACK CONTROL1!!1!
When you say "you" are you talking about GAFers who are posting polls that show immigration and multiculturalism were the biggest drivers behind the majority of Leave voters? Or are you talking about the pollsters themselves?
It's pretty clear a lot of people voted leave without really knowing what it meant, they all got on google last night/this morning to try and figure out what they've done
It's not a genuine issue if you look at the facts. Immigration is necessary for our country to develop economically and to maintain the quality of life for an aging population that will need care. Every rational person in government knows that, even Boris.
The understandable disenfranchisement of the people outside London is due to a lack of investment by successive governments, not by immigration. There are not enough houses being built and public services are being callously underfunded. Cameron cannot rebut the cartoon depiction of immigrants stealing jobs and houses because it's his own spending policies that are to blame. He was fucked from minute one, he had no means to respond to the xenophobia because telling the truth would just put people off him even more.
GoldenEye 007
Member
I'm not an expert in UK politics or really any politics for that matter, but wasn't there a lot of immigration/taking our jobs rhetoric spread by Leave supporters and leadership? Seems like a lot of division on that alone.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
While true, it doesn't change the fact that if you continue to have referendums with generous 50 percent + 1 vote wins in Scotland every few years, they will eventually vote out when they otherwise wouldn't. The 2014 vote was a once in a generation at most sort of bone thrown from Westminster. What the SNP wants is exactly like double jeopardy, essentially.
I edited that one out because I might be wrong about the Union Jack name, apparently it's a mess.
http://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/british-flags/the-union-jack-or-the-union-flag/
But yes, that's how it started for sure, and Union Flag is certainly correct too otherwise.
I think this is probably correct in terms of intentions, but it could backfire on them in a spectacular way. We just saw what the politics of fear and and bullying result in. If they are seen to 'punish' the UK it simply bolsters the arguments of existing eurosceptic groups within the remaining 27. It's not like the UK was the only malcontent.
Brilliant
Clockwork5
Member
I think they already did.
BullSHIT
France voted for Nicolas Sarkozy 2 years later and he made it pretty clear that he would pass much of the EU constitution into law if he got the chance.
France still voted for him so they tacitly rubber stamped what they refused 2 years prior.
You didn't want that? You had to vote against Sarkozy.
Don't cry a deny of democracy when it's actually democracy that happened.
And why should people from the EU buy anything from the UK, or go there on vacation? We were supposed to build a future together, as brothers and sisters, and UK just showed us the middle finger.
Red Arremer
Member
Are you willing to share those statements of respected economists and commentators that said it would be a good thing for the UK to leave the EU, economically and trade-wise?
Because as I see it, the UK just lost its special status within the EU and its right to give input into trade regulations it will have to adhere to anyway. It is already losing its place as an international financial center, and will do so even more in the future once monetary flow between it and the EU is going to be much more heavily regulated. It will be losing it's beneficial position within the EU's massive economic muscle and will have to solely rely on its own economy to negotiate trade deals - i.e. it will be much harder to find nations and organizations willing to hammer out agreements in the UK's favour. Underdeveloped areas of the UK will now be losing their much needed funding. Various branches of the economy, such as the science sector, will heavily decline in funds, support and thus revenue without the support of the EU.
All of this does not seem to benefit the UK economically in ANY way.
Which includes Schengen.
BumblebeeCody
Member
Wasn't me.
maquiladora
Member
WonkyPanda
Member
Do we have exit polls on the proportion of young that voted? Is this another cautionary tale of how shitty the youth vote is?
Isn't that just open borders? Does it entail anything else or any particular responsibilities to be eligible?
correct me if i'm wrong, but the previous referendum of leaving UK fell through because of politicians in london making statements that leaving the UK would also mean leaving the EU, so them being dumbfounded with this whole debacle is completely understandable
i dont know the situation in NI, but i reckon their sentiments are basically the same as the scotish people, and the whole gibraltar thing is spain taking advantage of britains fuckup, spain is also waiting for an opportunity to do the same stuff to some territories in portugal as well
dealer-
Member
Probably
We know there are sane Leave voters making a decision they thought was best like you have but the campaign was centred on immigration so talk about xenophobia etc was expected and goes with the territory of voting leave.Napoleonthechimp
Member
52% did. The others cared about the EU, but yet still have to abide by the decisions of the gutter dwelling right wing scumbags.
GamerMax73
Member
I agree it's not racism. It's mostly tabloid misinformation being spouted as fact. Seriously the immigration numbers don't stack up they way a lot of people seem to anecdotally believe they do. If anyone actually believes kicking 3m people out of a country of 65m will have any real term effect on NHS or School waiting lists they are more deluded than I am.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
The UK and Ireland are both outside that region, that's how they can share completely free travel between the countries. The UK is not getting the Norway model entirely, for sure, especially since they voted that they wanted to control immigration themselves.
Oh, they have a right to be dumbfounded I'm sure. I don't think this is a good result in any way, shape, or form, and it has divided the UK more than before.
Spain can talk, but it's all talk, and it's incredibly hypocritical.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceuta_and_Melilla
I'm sure Gibraltar wants to stay with the UK, and the people have the right to self-determination:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum,_1967
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum,_2002
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
Let me just stop your democracy lecture right there mate. I never said they weren't allowed to vote.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Because business want and need money to run, its all about money at the end of the day, trade is not suddenly going to stop and not everyone is childish, like some of the comments in this thread.
TsunamiOfSwagger
Member
WTF? How would leaving Europe make people of Pakistani descent leave the UK? Why would we want that?
Hilariously enough the people that cry about dictatorship of the EU are usually in favor of a dictatorship closer to home.
They also forget that the population voted for the officials who actually decide on the matters they cry about, most of the time much more directly than for the assholes who run the individual country.
But heh, crying about dictatorship is easy.
R_thanatos
Member
No idea, Like people have forgotten about François Mitterrand & Helmut Kohl and how they heavilly benefitted from each other from that point on ..but hey sometimes i'm lost on the internet.
I work in an area that has befenitted from European policies. Like my diploma is a DEESINF , an european certificate.
It allow me to have a clean base for me to work in eu countries and allowed me to experience many things.
Heck I was born in martinique , and that place can't expand itself or live without european funds
See above for what i think about this sentence.
Again , you're free to believe what you want , but it's total nonsense for me.
People who voted Leave have to deal with the fact that they voted the same as the racists and bigots.
It's not our fault and it's not made up. Trump, Putin and Le Penne are on your side. That's your company.
If the majority of your voters are racists and/or xenophobics it's not our fault.
It's not our fault and it's not made up. Trump, Putin and Le Penne are on your side. That's your company.
If the majority of your voters are racists and/or xenophobics it's not our fault.
There is no reason for the European union to suggest a deal that doesn't start with this. It would be the most beneficial for the economy while pissing off the leave campaign. Same reason fishing quota will be in there.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Scotland dosn't want to have referendums every few years, they just want to have another one ofter such a socialeconomic change like is UK leaving the EU (first country leaving the EU since it's fundation), which was also a key part of the last one.
It wouldn't be fair otherwise, because this event basically invalidates the last one.
whyamihere
Banned
Damn.
I'm presuming here that the leave campaign has largely been leveraging a very misleading kind of dog whistling.
PdotMichael
Banned
In fact UK would even pay more than today if they get the same Norway deal.
geordiemp
Member
This is a good post, the posters who say lets punish Brexit will probably be asking for our help given so many EU members are effectively broke....The posts dont seem to acknowledge the absolute financial mess that has been created in EU with so many countries in turmoil.
I am sure if we posted the mess of Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Italy...probably Spain as ell not to mention the new Eastern blocs with their hands out....its a bloody mess of a social experiement.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
so if the rest of the eu really wanted to trigger article 50 as soon as possible but the uk would try to delay, who exactly gets to decide what counts as a notification? earlier there were some rumours/speculation that eu lawyers are already working on it, but does it actually have to go through a court or can rest of the eu just say "yep, this counts"?
I mean the Electoral Commission, the body "in charge" of this referendum, has confirmed and determined the referendum results as valid and final.
The referendum itself has been ratified. Whether the government will accept the validated opinion of their people it is a different issue.
As for bypassing the government, I believe it is open to interpretation depending on how EU laws apply. But if you're asking me if I personally think it is possible: no.
ClosingADoor
Member
Probably a court. At least I hope so. I'm for dealing with this mess as soon as possible, but we can't have the member states themselves deciding this without a legal basis.
Sure. Here's a link to one paper I read by some independent economists that hit home for me:
https://issuu.com/efbkl/docs/economists_for_brexit_-_the_economy
As I say, I was thinking long term in seeing some change. Time will tell if I was right to vote Leave or very wrong, but I used my vote after thought and for genuine reasons.
jakonovski
Member
Regarding this non-racist, non-xenophobic problem with immigration. What is it? What is UK's problem with immigration that was EU's fault?
is it a good idea to visit london now since the pound is low?
there was no problem lol, UK wasn't even in schengen. Voting leave doesn't stop the demand for immigration, there's going to be less immigrants from European countries, and more from outside Europe. I'm sure the non-racist leavers are fine with that.
there was no problem lol, UK wasn't even in schengen. Voting leave doesn't stop the demand for immigration, there's going to be less immigrants from European countries, and more from outside Europe. I'm sure the non-racist leavers are fine with that.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Courts. European ones, admittedly, but they're relatively independent and have often done things the Commission doesn't want. I don't think the case for Article 50 is very strong; I think the Commission is just doing it to make a point (e.g.: you done fuck up, son).
geordiemp
Member
No, we said we wanted more control....a bit less EU superstate please.... we came begging for more before the election, and were told no, thats all you get, no way will you leave anyway attitude. EU just got too big.
We can all try and co exist nicely or all fight, we dont have to be in Euro or be in EU club to be friends. Or maybe its like the sithe, with us or against us lol
About average, 1.23 Euro to GBP is not as low as in 2003 when it was you got 1.15 to GBP, that was the cheapest time.
1.4 was a really bad time recently, pound far too strong, good for Uk its come down a bit imo. Over 5 years pound is not that low really, about average, just low for this year.
Viruz
Member
What are you talking about? We (The french people) were robbed .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_European_Constitution_referendum,_2005
?
No!! since 2005
ClosingADoor
Member
The arguments seem to be:
1) Cheap labor undercutting British workers
2) Limited housing
3) Services like healthcare too busy now
4) Abuse of welfare and benefits
But I don't think any of those are actually true, and at least not to an extend it would hurt the UK that much.
I know, this is all a huge mess, and i feel so bad for young people suffering because of some idiots.
But this "if you make us suffer, we will make you suffer" mentality doesn't work. I mean, we are all europeans... this is all soooo stupid.
But UK needs to be punished, or everything will go down the hill.
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