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[Ashes]

brexit joke:

https://youtu.be/2TP4MuVnS2A

 

[Peru]

"Our promises were a series of possibilities"

The snakiest comment ever made

 

[kharma45]

Funny that was not the opinion of one of the countries leading constitutional lawyers during the referendums legislation process. He stated quite clearly Scottish parliament would need to approve.

https://constitution-unit.com/2016/...egislation-would-invoke-the-sewel-convention/

Westminster can press ahead but have actually lost in the past to Wales in the courts.

More interesting reading https://constitution-unit.com/2016/...on-statutes-were-left-unchanged-after-brexit/

 

[Moosichu]

the US will make sure the UK doesn't get shitted on in trade negotiations.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

The US is busy dealing with the EU. The UK is so laughably insignificant compared to the EU as a hold, any agreement with the UK to take part in that is going to have to wait.

(I would also like the clarify, that I don't think the UK will get shat on, but the US will let the UK and EU figure it out themselves and won't get involved. They have no need to.)

 

[phisheep]

I am scottish. I live in Kent. If you watched Tony Blair interview, that will give you an idea, or any of the other Uk politicians on TV today. Leave remain, labour, conservative, they all suggested the same path.

They can go back to the country for a general election with a new manifesto. Lots of things can and will happen. Whats not happening is someone running to Brussels next week and UK jumping out of the common market this year - get real.

Good friday agreement and Scottish devolution has EU stuff written in.....It will be slow and there will be more twists and turns this year I believe.

Ah thank you. Voice of reason.

 

[El Topo]

Save me, Angela.

Give it a bit more than a year and there might be no Angela to save you, although I'm (reasonably) expecting at worst a three-party government with her at the head. The political situation in Germany isn't exactly roses.

 

[pigeon]

the US will make sure the UK doesn't get shitted on in trade negotiations.

No we won't. I can assure you that there's no political will in the United States for protecting Great Britain. The prevailing sentiment over here is thank God your country is worse at democracy than ours is.

 

[GamerMax73]

If Scotland went independent to rejoin the EU, then the Scottish border becomes a land border with the EU. I can only imagine pleasant consequences.

Given a land border between England and Scotland, and NI and the Republic, keeping out of Shengen becomes a little more problematic...

 

[Clear]

Its amazing, we're staring down the barrel of the country being fucked for years, politically and economically

Yeah, and the millennium bug was going to cause planes to fall from the sky and WW3 to begin....

Sad truth of the matter is that despite how much people complain about the political status quo, the prospect of actual real change terrifies them. Which to me says a lot about the way our Political leaders have conditioned us over the last few decades; The politics of fear trades on "protecting" people from the nightmares borne of the precautionary principle where the direst outcome is the one to be expected.

This is why Brexit has been such a bombshell both within the UK and in the EU generally, and why potentially it could sow the seeds for positive change. Once past the fear and shock, all parties will be forced to deal with the reality, because there are significant upsides for all parties - this is the essence of trade after all.

 

[Red Liquorice]

This may have already been posted, I just saw it on FB:

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/ar...-david-cameron-and-brexit-is-true--bJhqBql0VZ



This is a fascinating theory and well played Cameron if true.

There was a piece in the Guardian yesterday along similar lines about Boris' pyrrhic victory. If all this mess ruins that big fat fools chances of being PM proper, the exit from the EU might've just been worth it... maybe.

 

[Sax1031]

Genuinely curious: why?

because the UK is one of our most important strategic allies.

 

[Hasney]

Please do. I'm at work now and would like to watch it when I get home.

This is the Blair interview on Sunday Politics today. Talks a helluva lot of sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQa-gHFVDGo

 

[BibiMaghoo]

I can't see how you could get away with ignoring the will of the British people. I really just can't see that happening.

Simply because the will of the British people is not cast in iron. It is a fluctuating thing, and our democracy represents that. The vote represents their views at this time, not 10 years from now. If the brexit discussions take 4 years, and the impact of leaving is clearly seen by people who thought there was none, you cannot possibly say opinions would remain the same by everyone, to do so is silly. Already, a day later people were not of the same opinion as they were when they cast their votes.

Like I said, the only people that make out it's a done deal are the people that want it to be. I would vote for a PM that would disregard the referendum results. Many others would.

 

[twobear]

Do you mean premature?

No. I think Scotland now see's itself as more cohesive then England. This will fuel the pro-independence debate here.

The only question is wether Scotland remains in the EU under the current UK terms or if it has to renegotiate it's entry.

Yes, I do mean premature. Brain fart.

The EU referendum has (potentially) catalysed Scotland's population to vote to leave the UK over the space of four days. How is that the same situation as Scotland was in, even two weeks ago, let alone in 2014 when a majority voted to stay?

The EU referendum has made plain a fact that was hinted at by the 2015 GE, that is, there are broadly two groups of people in the UK, and they have very little in the way of common ground in their political beliefs.

Point to the common ground that you believe exists. There isn't any.

 

[RedSparrows]

Yeah, and the millennium bug was going to cause planes to fall from the sky and WW3 to begin....

Sad truth of the matter is that despite how much people complain about the political status quo, the prospect of actual real change terrifies them. Which to me says a lot about the way our Political leaders have conditioned us over the last few decades; The politics of fear trades on "protecting" people from the nightmares borne of the precautionary principle where the direst outcome is the one to be expected.

This is why Brexit has been such a bombshell both within the UK and in the EU generally, and why potentially it could sow the seeds for positive change. Once past the fear and shock, all parties will be forced to deal with the reality, because there are significant upsides for all parties - this is the essence of trade after all.

I wish I shared your optimism.

 

[pigeon]

because the UK is one of our most important strategic allies.

No they aren't. The main thing the UK does alliance-wise is provide cover for our unilateral military excursions. That is kind of important from a geopolitical view, but a) I want us to have less of those anyway and b) technically the UK doesn't need a meaningful military to make our invasions multilateral.

 

[Moosichu]

Yeah, and the millennium bug was going to cause planes to fall from the sky and WW3 to begin....

Sad truth of the matter is that despite how much people complain about the political status quo, the prospect of actual real change terrifies them. Which to me says a lot about the way our Political leaders have conditioned us over the last few decades; The politics of fear trades on "protecting" people from the nightmares borne of the precautionary principle where the direst outcome is the one to be expected.

This is why Brexit has been such a bombshell both within the UK and in the EU generally, and why potentially it could sow the seeds for positive change. Once past the fear and shock, all parties will be forced to deal with the reality, because there are significant upsides for all parties - this is the essence of trade after all.

The millennium bug was just misreporting. And fixing it in time did cost some companies a lot of money as well.

 

[Sax1031]

No we won't. I can assure you that there's no political will in the United States for protecting Great Britain.

lol, ok

 

[shinra-bansho]

Save me, Barack.

 

[geordiemp]

You just voted to destroy your own economy and now your expectation is that Germany will protect you from the consequences? Chamberlain's got nothing on you.

Frankly, supporting Scottish membership in the EU sounds like the closest thing there is to a win-win. People who want to stay in get to stay in, people who want to leave get to leave.

Really, Germany protect us. There was just a non binding vote to tell government the people favoured leaving the EU, not the common market. It is not legally binding in the same way as other EU votes were re-done again in Ireland, France...but whatever floats your agenda.....

As much as I enjoy debating with people who would love to see the UK burn, I think I will just leave. You can continue ranting your displeasure, talk again in November when nothing has changed.

Always makes me wonder what your background is to make you so obsessed with Uk burning to the ground ?

 

[Jimbob Smalls]

If Sturgeon becomes the bogeywoman fake-Leave Tories can point to as the 'real' reason for Brexit is unworkable, I swear I will drink nothing but irn-bru for life and marry the ugliest Scottish bird I can find.



Let me break it down for you:

Any Remain lies and/or exaggerations were about the potential negative impacts of leaving the EU. The benefits for staying are out there and can be looked up by anyone.

The Leave lies were the entire premise for the referendum. Immigration. NHS. Jobs.

Controlled immigration was leaves shtick, you can still have high levels and control. You also have the benefit of being able to treat everyone the same.

The only person who can set the UK budgets is the Chancellor, we weren't voting for a government. Maybe we will vote for a government who pledges to give the NHS more money next time round.

We cannot know the impact on jobs until we leave, we should expect some to lose theirs whilst others will gain new ones as the economy rebalances.

 

[Merino]

German, French ministers plan for 'strong Europe in uncertain world'

In light of this I don't see the EU even considering letting the UK stay even if there is a second referendum with a Bremain result or a veto by Scotland.

Merely the reality of Brexit being a thing in the UK (and the fact that the UK was never a fully committed partner to the EU project) is working against the current road path of the Union. EU wants to deepen integration of its member states while the UK is divided on that at best. Best to cut losses and let the UK go no matter what in order to insulate the Union from the instability and lack of EU support in the UK.

 

[ShogunX]

"Our promises were a series of possibilities"

The snakiest comment ever made

Whole thing is an absolute swindle. There is simply no way they should be allowed to get away with blatant lying for a decision as big as this.

 

[Moreche]

It wasn't that many years ago that I thought the UK was really a united kingdom, one country with different sections or whatever. Now it seems more like siblings who had it not been for sharing the same parents wouldn't have anything to do with each other in a million years. All but hatred. Or even hatred when taken at a smaller level.

There is nothing United about the UK, not for a very long time.

 

[oti]

Save me, Angela.

I'm starting to wonder what people outside of Germany actually think about Merkel. What kind of politician she is. She isn't as loud or aggressive as others but don't be fooled. She can be ruthless when she sees the need to be.

 

[Jimbob Smalls]

German, French ministers plan for 'strong Europe in uncertain world'

In light of this I don't see the EU even considering letting the UK stay even if there is a second referendum with a Bremain result or a veto by Scotland.

Merely the reality of Brexit being a thing in the UK (and the fact that the UK was never a fully committed partner to the EU project) is working against the current road path of the Union. EU wants to deepen integration of its member states while the UK is divided on that at best. Best to cut losses and let the UK go no matter what in order to insulate the Union from the instability and lack of EU support in the UK.

Germany and her little buddy France calling the shots, fancy that.

 

[pigeon]

Really, Germany protect us. There was just a non binding vote to tell government the people favoured leaving the EU, not the common market. It is not legally binding in the same way as other EU votes were re-done again in Ireland, France...but whatever floats your agenda.....

As much as I enjoy debating with people who would love to see the UK burn, I think I will just leave. You can continue ranting your displeasure, talk again in November when nothing has changed.

Always makes me wonder what your background is to make you so obsessed with Uk burning to the ground ?

Well, you know, I'm Irish-American.


No, more seriously, I would prefer the UK to stay whole and hearty. That's why I'm so tilted that you voted to cut your own legs off and now you're somehow blaming me for pointing out that this will reduce your mobility. It's not my fault you need legs to walk, man. Maybe vote for legs next time.

 

[Maledict]

German, French ministers plan for 'strong Europe in uncertain world'

In light of this I don't see the EU even considering letting the UK stay even if there is a second referendum with a Bremain result or a veto by Scotland.

Merely the reality of Brexit being a thing in the UK (and the fact that the UK was never a fully committed partner to the EU project) is working against the current road path of the Union. EU wants to deepen integration of its member states while the UK is divided on that at best. Best to cut losses and let the UK go no matter what in order to insulate the Union from the instability and lack of EU support in the UK.

Those are pipe dream plans which won't even have the support of their own governments, never mind the other countries in the EU. Merkel is saying precisely the opposite of this.

(I also love the idea that they preface by saying 'more Europe is not the answer' - and then proceed to do exactly that).

I'm a strong pro-European, but we have to acknlowdge whenever any crisis happens there's always some people saying more Europe is the answer no matter what. I don't think it's the right response now, and I don't think these plans have any legs at all.

 

[ferrasvansen]

https://constitution-unit.com/2016/...egislation-would-invoke-the-sewel-convention/

Westminster can press ahead but have actually lost in the past to Wales in the courts.

More interesting reading https://constitution-unit.com/2016/...on-statutes-were-left-unchanged-after-brexit/

What a terrible mess. Years and years of legal battles lie ahead.

 

[geordiemp]

Well, you know, I'm American Irish.

Well then, is that why you enjoy the hate ?

 

[Jimbob Smalls]

There is nothing United about the UK, not for a very long time.

You mean people have different political affinities?

That's not unusual and is actually quite healthy.

 

[twobear]

Whole thing is an absolute swindle. There is simply no way they should be allowed to get away with blatant lying for a decision as big as this.

Political parties lie through their teeth in every General Election, to be fair. Remember 'no top-down reorganisation of the NHS'?

 

[Flintty]

No they aren't. The main thing the UK does alliance-wise is provide cover for our unilateral military excursions. That is kind of important from a geopolitical view, but a) I want us to have less of those anyway and b) technically the UK doesn't need a meaningful military to make our invasions multilateral.

Wrong. We may be a small country but we punch above our weight in many areas of behind the scenes activity. Out military is small in numbers but we make up for that in other areas.

 

[Jimbob Smalls]

It looks like the hysterical lies of the remain side got under the skin of a few here as well.

 

[mehrmantrout]

Yeah, and the millennium bug was going to cause planes to fall from the sky and WW3 to begin....

Sad truth of the matter is that despite how much people complain about the political status quo, the prospect of actual real change terrifies them. Which to me says a lot about the way our Political leaders have conditioned us over the last few decades; The politics of fear trades on "protecting" people from the nightmares borne of the precautionary principle where the direst outcome is the one to be expected.

This is why Brexit has been such a bombshell both within the UK and in the EU generally, and why potentially it could sow the seeds for positive change. Once past the fear and shock, all parties will be forced to deal with the reality, because there are significant upsides for all parties - this is the essence of trade after all.

I agree and said so last night http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=208327411&postcount=10123

Phisheep set out pretty much the current position

And this, I think, is behind some of the current fuss about the timing of Article 50 notification.

Clearly it is in the UK's interest to delay this at least until there are the political structures in place to handle the negotiation and its fallout. That probably means after the next General Election, which I expect to see considerably sooner than 2020.

It is the the EUs interest to push for immediate notification, for three reasons:
- to try and put a plug in uprisings in other member states
- to avoid having to face the fact that internal reforms may be necessary and to do anything about them
- to avoid the nightmare scenario of more than one state in parallel operating Article 50

This last one is a nightmare because of the way article 50 is worded. For example obviously the UK is excluded from discussions about the EU stance on the UKs exit - but if, say Sweden were exiting at the same time there is no legal provision to exclude Sweden from the UK's discussions and vice-versa, and the EU's negotiating stance would be thrown wide open.

The way everything has fallen post vote, I honestly don't think we'll leave.

 

[APZonerunner]

German, French ministers plan for 'strong Europe in uncertain world'

In light of this I don't see the EU even considering letting the UK stay even if there is a second referendum with a Bremain result or a veto by Scotland.

Merely the reality of Brexit being a thing in the UK (and the fact that the UK was never a fully committed partner to the EU project) is working against the current road path of the Union. EU wants to deepen integration of its member states while the UK is divided on that at best. Best to cut losses and let the UK go no matter what in order to insulate the Union from the instability and lack of EU support in the UK.

The referrendum result is non-binding, and until British Parliament votes to invoke Article 50, the UK has not left the union, and crucially has done nothing that could be used to kick them out.

The EU can be pissed off at them, but if the UK was to change its mind there's literally nothing they could do; the diplomats in charge would just be less likely to respect the diplomats Britain sends, vote with them, etc, until the wounds healed.

That said, I think this is all irrelevant and we should stop fighting the result and get on with the future, and I voted Remain.

 

[twobear]

Wrong. We may be a small country but we punch above our weight in many areas of behind the scenes activity. Out military is small in numbers but we make up for that in other areas.

And much of that 'punching above our weight' is predicated on our being in the EU.

 

[Flintty]

And much of that 'punching above our weight' is predicated on our being in the EU.

Not necessarily.

Edit: This is worth a read. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom–United_States_relations

 

[ferrasvansen]

It looks like the hysterical lies of the remain side got under the skin of a few here as well.

Lies, erm they were predictions and it's only been a few days since the vote, let's see what happens in 10 years before you decide if those predictions were lies.

 

[Lakitu]

It looks like the hysterical lies of the remain side got under the skin of a few here as well.

What are you talking about?

 

[Moreche]

I'm amazed that people voted to leave over the immigrants stealing our jobs line.
I personally know a family of three generations comprising of about 20 people were not one over sixteen works in a full time job, all claiming benefits and disability allowances and every single one British Caucasian.

 

[twobear]

Not necessarily.

Can you name an example?

 

[RedSparrows]

"Our promises were a series of possibilities"

The snakiest comment ever made

Got a vid/link?

I'm amazed that people voted to leave over the immigrants stealing our jobs line.
I personally know a family of three generations comprising of about 20 people were not one over sixteen works in a full time job, all claiming benefits and disability allowances and every single one British Caucasian.

Well, given that another popular 'fact' in the UK is that there are millions of people like this, it strikes me odd that people who also blame immigrants think they've fixed things...

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

wrong thread

 

[oti]

The way everything has fallen post vote, I honestly don't think we'll leave.

You don't think you'll leave? Was this whole referendum just an alternative timeline comic event for you?

 

[ShogunX]

Political parties lie through their teeth in every General Election, to be fair. Remember 'no top-down reorganisation of the NHS'?

They certainly do and they should be held accountable for that. Difference is at least with a GE we get the chance to change our decision within a few years. Not so much this time around....

 

[Flintty]

Can you name an example?

I've put a link in my original post, outlining the 'special relationship' which shows little mention of EU.

 

[phisheep]

It is a good time to get politically active if you are not already.

I will be joining the Conservative party on Monday, so I can exercise at least some influence for the greater good. Already a registered supporter of Labour ditto ditto.

Hope they don't read this and both of them chuck me out.

 

[cormack12]

The referrendum result is non-binding, and until British Parliament votes to invoke Article 50, the UK has not left the union, and crucially has done nothing that could be used to kick them out.

The EU can be pissed off at them, but if the UK was to change its mind there's literally nothing they could do; the diplomats in charge would just be less likely to respect the diplomats Britain sends, vote with them, etc, until the wounds healed.

That said, I think this is all irrelevant and we should stop fighting the result and get on with the future, and I voted Remain.

I'd like to believe this,but we've just destabilised the entire Eurozone. I don't think any country has ever been expelled from the EU, but if by some politicking we don't come out the EU, it will be dependent on concessions on the UK side certainly.

Maybe the reality is we won't actually leave, but partway through the process we re-negotiate our standing.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

It is a good time to get politically active if you are not already.

I will be joining the Conservative party on Monday, so I can exercise at least some influence for the greater good. Already a registered supporter of Labour ditto ditto.

Hope they don't read this and both of them chuck me out.

Why? Are you really that motivated to help the country after this?