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[Oddvintagechap]

Kinda weird that there's no asian people in a game developed in japan.

not kinda weird, super stupid. They should have some pride. I just thought these characters were just some awkwardly european looking asians.

This is the first time, i’ve actually noticed how silly this is. Every rot brain thinks this means add a black person that isn’t a caricature.

Adding a picture of the writer just makes you a child btw:

 

[Airbus Jr]

Not every game need that diversity quota developer can make game anyway they pleased

 

[ConkerTheSquirrel.]

Not every game need that diversity quota developer can make game anyway they plased

He's judging Japanese culture by his own narrow-minded metric. People not of Japan can make value judgements of said country, but REEs shouldn't expect Japanese people to bend backwards to satisfy them (whom I assume are American).

How solipsistic and arrogant does one have to be to think this way?

 

[Crayon]

I don't like painting a target on the author like that. It's Kotaku's responsibility for printing this trash.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Not every game need that diversity quota developer can make game anyway they plased

Geriatric jimmy neutron with a terrible take, who would've thought?

 

[Moneal]

Not every game need that diversity quota developer can make game anyway they plased

Is he using his whiteness(western cultural values) to bash another culture? I thought all cultures were equal, except western culture is the worst.

 

[Sleepwalker]

"But while Ragnarok is a game firmly rooted in the customs and culture of Norse mythology, it still takes the time and care and effort to include characters of color like Angrboda. That game was successful in part because its developers did not let a notion of “reality” constrain what they could do with their characters and world-building. It’s a lesson a lot of new games are taking to heart, symbolizing much-needed progress within the industry."

This example is hilarious because Ragnarok was good despite the team trying to make the characters "modern", with CW low budget series dialogue and melodrama, and not in part because of it.

It was a huge downgrade to the first game in this regard

And I love that they tried to ask the same fucking question again to Yoshi-P and he just said "nah, dawg. Its still a no from me"

The scenes where angrboda is in the game are literally the worst part of the game haha

 

[Airbus Jr]

Is he using his whiteness(western cultural values) to bash another culture? I thought all cultures were equal, except western culture is the worst.

More like american social construct

Check the people on era aprox 70% who complain about diversity are from america

Thats where the demands for this comes from

 

[Hunnybun]

It does. Why are goblins considered anti-semitic? Because they people complaining see jews as goblins. They project their internal beliefs onto others to push their racism onto others and absolve themselves of their internal racists thoughts and beliefs.

Just because you recognise a racist caricature doesn't mean you're racist.

I actually thought the goblins were seriously questionable myself, and I hate political correctness. They looked and behaved almost exactly like something out of a Nazi propaganda film.

 

[Boss Mog]

Zealots see everything as political statements. It can't be just a creative choice, it has to serve a doctrinal purpose.

There's no arguing with people who think that way, best to ignore them.

It can be a creative choice, just as long as that choice is to have an all black cast. Nobody will come after that scenario for lack of diversity, I can guarantee you that much.

These modern day videogame "journalists" are nothing more than wannabe activists with not a single once of journalistic talent or integrity. Their sole purpose is the suck the joy out of anything fun for the sake of their cause.

 

[MasterCornholio]

In the future skin color will be a menu option.

 

[Lyrical]

I have been steering clear of the verge for awhile. Glad to see I’ve been making the right choice.

 

[In Cold Blood]

Fucking bigots. I bet there isn't even one gay dwarf sex scene in the entire game.

 

[Teletraan1]

Even when your lead is a black female they still bitch that they aren't being subjected to racism in the game like Polygon did with Forspoken. It is never enough for these race baiting drama farmers.

 

[West Texas CEO]

 

[kruis]

Funny how the same people shouting "racism!" and "cultural appropriation!" have no problems with the cultural enforcement of western notions of race and ethnicity on other cultures.

 

[Lady Bird]

Why not ask a historian? If it's based on the idea of medieval Europe, ask a historian what the fuck it may have been like during that period of time. You'll probably find high intersection of races due to the trading trends of Europe, so it'll likely be the case people of colour were actually around.

I know that's big thinking for GAF, they'd rather shit on Era mindsets and dog whistle the fuck out of racism, but the journalist should have also done some actual fucking research. Historians love to talk, they can't stop talking as soon as you invite them to share their knowledge. Same expectation from developers, if you are going medieval Europe then research the topic and not just think "well all the tv shows I see have only white Norse/British people so that must be it!"

What are Valisthea's trending trends?
What -and where - are the african and asian and american equivalents in the world of FFXVI?

If you look at Valisthea's world map, it's isolated by sea. There are no land channels to "fantasy African" and "fantasy Asia". We don't even know if such continents exist or not, and if they do, we don't know where they are geolocated. We only know that that there does exist more landmass other than Valisthea in FFXVI's world, somewhere.

https://www.eurogamer.net/naoki-yoshida-addresses-final-fantasy-16s-lack-of-diversity

Yoshida felt "rather than create something on a global scale, it was necessary to limit the scope to a single landmass - one geographically and culturally isolated from the rest of the world [...]".

"Due to the underlying geographical, technological, and geopolitical constraints of this setting, Valisthea was never going to realistically be as diverse as say a modern-day Earth... or even Final Fantasy 14 that has an entire planet (and moon) worth of nations, races, and cultures at its disposal. The isolated nature of this realm, however, does end up playing a large part in the story and is one of the reasons Valisthea's fate is tied to the rest of the world.

FFXVI is not - and was never meant - to be "100% Europe, but with magic!" It's, instead, a take on what an "isolated version of Europe" would have been (but with magic). Therefore, using real-world trading trends as criticism makes little sense in a fictional world where, for several known and unknown reasons, those trading trends cannot even exist. So, outside of magical and other fictional elements, Valisthea IS INDEED heavily based on medieval Europe, but ONLY within the creative bounds that they have restricted themselves to.

Yoshida's comments are logical, and I get the impression that people trying to prove him wrong are just distorting his word for not adding in racial diversity black people in this particular game that was probably not meant to feature them.

 

[kruis]

Even when your lead is a black female they still bitch that they aren't being subjected to racism in the game like Polygon did with Forspoken. It is never enough for these race baiting drama farmers.

These click bait farming "journalists" know nothing about gaming, but it doesn't matter since they can use progressive politics as an endless source of outrage and inspiration for new articles.

 

[kruis]

Holy shit it’s Kotaku’s “hornt correspondent and diversity gelatinous cube”. Same author who wrote that “Final Fantasy X caused my sexual awakening” article.

These people are bat shit crazy.

 

[AJUMP23]

What a DUMB ASH!

 

[decisions]

What -and where - are the african and asian and american equivalents in the world of FFXVI? If you look at Valisthea's world map, it's isolated by sea. There are no land channels to "fantasy African" and "fantasy Asia". We don't even know if such continents exist or not, and if they do, we don't know where they are geolocated, although it's been explicitly stated that there does exist more landmass other than Valisthea in FFXVI's world.

https://www.eurogamer.net/naoki-yoshida-addresses-final-fantasy-16s-lack-of-diversity


FFXVI is not only based on Europe - it's based on an isolated version of Europe. It's an "what if an European-like continent were to be surrounded by sea?" scenario, combined with fantasy elements. Therefore, using real-world trading trends make no sense in a fictional world where, for several known and unknown reasons, those trading trends cannot exist. So, outside of magical and other fictional elements, Valisthea IS INDEED heavily based on medieval Europe, but only within the creative bounds that they have intentionally restricted themselves to.
Yoshida is perfectly right here, and I get the impression that people trying to prove him wrong are grasping at straws, hellbent on a mission to try to discredit him for not adding in racial diversity black people in this particular game.

With every game that comes out the criticism gets dumber and dumber. Can people turn their brains on for a second and ask themselves why a Japanese developer might be able to conceptualize an isolationist nation?

I don’t know, maybe it’s because Japan was one of the most willfully isolationist countries in the world for a long stretch of its history? And not because of an offense against American diversity politics?

 

[Neofire]

I support diversity but not in the way of throwing others under the bus.

I'm surprised the mods didn't check a few of those options in the polls lol suggesting a group is genetically "inferior" whether it was a joke or not is a bit much but I digress.

 

[Lady Bird]

With every game that comes out the criticism gets dumber and dumber. Can people turn their brains on for a second and ask themselves why a Japanese developer might be able to conceptualize an isolationist nation?

I don’t know, maybe it’s because Japan was one of the most willfully isolationist countries in the world for a long stretch of its history? And not because of an offense against American diversity politics?

Exactly.

Era's outrage on this subject can be summed to: "You are not allowed to create an isolationist country and have that country be based on a real-life, not-that-isolationist continent!"

 

[Bernardougf]

So much waffle here but I'm going to touch on this because you're ignoring the evidence. These people don't have money, never have and never will. The people who do have money don't give a fuck and are only concerned about the quality of the product on offer.

If you're closet woke (or a step beyond that maybe) that's not my business, you do you. But don't waste your time trying to justify this crap to me - I don't care, never will and by and large the people who do care have fuck all to offer society.

Closet woke.. kkkk love it ... thanks bro

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

The scenes where angrboda is in the game are literally the worst part of the game haha

This bothered me… possibly the most universally panned segment of your game is the one you chose to feature the diverse character?

And it’s a shame because there’s some great story and character bits in that segment, a great gameplay segment with a unique boss and you chose to pad it with two hours of shopping for groceries and cleaning out what is essentially a sewer level with boring enemies?

 

[Kiya's Guard]

I support diversity, I love all kinds of fantasy bimbos.
Japan is the last resort of non-politised bullshit. We are already losing capcom, please stop it there

 

[Banjo64]

I just like well written and believable characters/worlds.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”​

This quote always stuck with me. We've had good times for so long that people search for things to complain about in life. They manufacture issues to try and create issues where there isn't. It's created a lot of weak people but the pendulum will eventually swing the other way. A cycle like everything else.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the game and cast they've created. They are clearly making a fictional European type medieval setting and to them that is predominantly white. I highly doubt there's some racist undercurrent in that decision it's just more accurate to what they are trying to depict. It's such a non-story.

 

[Lasha]

Why not ask a historian? If it's based on the idea of medieval Europe, ask a historian what the fuck it may have been like during that period of time. You'll probably find high intersection of races due to the trading trends of Europe, so it'll likely be the case people of colour were actually around.

I know that's big thinking for GAF, they'd rather shit on Era mindsets and dog whistle the fuck out of racism, but the journalist should have also done some actual fucking research. Historians love to talk, they can't stop talking as soon as you invite them to share their knowledge. Same expectation from developers, if you are going medieval Europe then research the topic and not just think "well all the tv shows I see have only white Norse/British people so that must be it!"

There is always liberal freedom for creativity, no doubt about that and anyone arguing X or Y needs to be shoved in is only forcing their creative opinion. However, if you publicly state your game is based of historical context then it is expected that result is researched. It's why I really enjoyed Kingdom Come: Deliverance as it was heavily researched to showcase why the racial cast was how it portrayed.

Side note: yes I know the GAF comment will trigger people, I really give no cares there, and truthfully no one needs to care about this opinion all things considered. Just stating what I see in this thread and plenty of other politic focused ones.

KCD was lambasted for a perceived lack of diversity by the same types at its release. No amount of historical accuracy will satisfy the diversity crowd unless the racial demographics of a game reflect an idealized 20xx America.

The entire concept is silly. You can walk through many regions today and never see a person of a non-local ethnicity. It's logical to expect even more homogeneity 500+ years back when travel was even more difficult.

 

[Long Far Gone]

Not every game need that diversity quota developer can make game anyway they pleased

Do you reckon they ever reflect on their racial imposition? The Left-wing, generally, states that it is against Imperialism. However, I'm beginning to suspect this isn't the case; they're not actually against race-based Imperialism at all, they just think it was the wrong race doing the colonising.

 

[Neofire]

Ash Parrish​

VIDEO GAMES REPORTER
Ash is a Video Games Reporter for The Verge with a focus on covering marginalized gamers and their communities, writing about the intersection of video games and sex, and finding a way to make the general video gaming public care about the Overwatch League.

"writing about the intersection of video games and sex"

The sista(with a zaddy)is pretty but her virtue signaling in everything she does is disgusting.

 

[kvltus lvlzvs]

based squeenix, will buy day 1 of pc release to support. Also it looks really good, hopefully it is a return to the quality of the ffs of yore.

 

[ungalo]

KCD was lambasted for a perceived lack of diversity by the same types at its release. No amount of historical accuracy will satisfy the diversity crowd unless the racial demographics of a game reflect an idealized 20xx America.

The entire concept is silly. You can walk through many regions today and never see a person of a non-local ethnicity. It's logical to expect even more homogeneity 500+ years back when travel was even more difficult.

Even more than that, their views (the devs of KCD) were dismissed by "historians". You can always find someone in the social science/humanities field to justify anything, especially when it's leaning towards a certain political group.

 

[GymWolf]

As a half Mexican and half white, full red blooded American, I’m outraged my peoples aren’t represented in Returnal.

Bitch you lack at least 20 shades of dark to even have a corner place in the oppression pyramid, people here in sicily are darker than your half mexican ass.

Spoiler

 

[Gamerfan81]

Hey look, another racial controversy created by the woke!

Some people just want to play video games and be entertain.

Just disgusting race baiting crap from the woke!

 

[unclbenn]

It's final-fucking-fantasy, give me all the colours in the rainbow god damnit !

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

I am a brown man of Indian heritage and feel absolutely insulted by the lack of turban wearing characters in FFXVI and what looks to be a predominant white cast.

Pre-order cancelled and I just burned my signed copy of OG FF7 by Nobuo Uematsu in a fit of rage.

 

[GymWolf]

But they are! They are the flying cubes with tentacles.

And if you don’t believe me: you can read all about it in my article “The flying cubes with tentacles in Returnal caused my sexual awakening”.

Tbf, tentacles are probably responsible for at least half of the japaneses population sexual awakenings.

 

[TGO]

I find most none western studios are pretty accurate when it comes to representation so it comes as no surprise with the FF team and FFXVI that they want to be authentic.
When I watch anything from world cinema be it Chinese, Korean, Japanese or Bollywood, Black Cinema
It is rare to see whites in them unless they actually travel to a western country in the film.
And that's to be expected as you expect to see Chinese, Korean, Japanese etc people in those films because that's where they originate from and they made it.
I don't see it being racist and I'm not offended by it
So it's always odd to see people complaining simply because western countries are the only ones that live with other cultures, even though though nearly all other aren't racially tolerant of others
And yet they complain about too many whites in films made in the only place you'll find white people and demanding exaggerated representation simply because western civilizations have become so tolerant to the point of diluting their own culture to please others.

 

[Fbh]

It's funny because it's a Japanese game, primarily made by Japanese people but with no Japanese characters, and seemingly no one in Japan gives a fuck. But all these American/British bloggers are loosing their mind because a game made on the other side of the world doesn't appeal specifically to them and the social/racial issues in their country.

Doesn't get more self centered than that. "I'm so open minded but also every entertainment product made anywhere in the world needs to appeal specifically to me and my country and the issues that affect me".

Dude I'm from Chile. Characters from this part of the world (Chile, Argentina, Peru, Bolivia, etc) are almost unheard of in Videogames and when they show up in foreign movies/Tv it's usually with something related to drugs and gangs. But why the fuck would I expect a game made in Japan, or Sweeden, or South Africa to have a Chilean character?

 

[fatmarco]

Why not ask a historian? If it's based on the idea of medieval Europe, ask a historian what the fuck it may have been like during that period of time. You'll probably find high intersection of races due to the trading trends of Europe, so it'll likely be the case people of colour were actually around.

You do understand that trade between distant nations tended not to involve the source trader traveling the entirety of the journey to their end customer though right?

As in, a Chinese trader would not manually travel his good across the Silk Road all the way into Turkey, across the Mediterranean Sea and directly to Northern France to trade. It was traded from trader to trader, each making shorter journeys beyond their borders to their neighbours (see Sogdians). And then you have to consider that once goods arrived in trade hub cities/countries, it would then have a further layer of separation by it being traded from those hubs to other domestic or European traders. That isn't to say it didn't happen its more to say that while trade with distant nations was frequent, that doesn't mean there was an equivalent amount of trade with truly exotic foreigners in person.

In any case a lot of this discussion is framed through an Americentric lens, in the sense that it perceives Europeans as being this singular homogenous group as they tend to be in America, whereas in reality, within Europe, their individual identities carry some weight and they don't view other Europeans as their own people. Racism between "white" European people is a very real thing, so you can still still confront those sorts of themes when the conflicting parties look aesthetically similar.

 

[FBeeEye]

These people are insufferable. Japanese games are the last bastion against all this woke BS in games. I can't look at a Redfall video without wanting to puke. Those are the worst characters I've ever seen. It's forced diversity.

 

[NickFire]

When it comes to gaming, to me it feels like some websites seem primarily interested in two things: telling their audience why not to play games; and pushing companies into commercial flops.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

The funniest part is that Square just released a big RPG with a black female protagonist. They bent over backwards to try and make her all likeable and relatable to the modern audience and brought in BIPOC consultants to get their stamp of approval.

The result? She was almost universally disliked by the (overwhelmingly left-leaning) gaming press. Kotaku wrote some meandering hit piece about how non-black the dev team was. Some other joke of a gaming site (Destructiod maybe?) complained because they portrayed a black person in a fantasy world where racism doesn’t exist, instead of making her identity and victimhood the focus of her character.

The only conclusion I can take from this is you shouldn’t try to appease these fucking wackos. They’re liars and narcissists. Their goal isn’t to help minorities. Their true goal is to virtue signal and prove they are the most virtuous of all. No matter how hard you try to win their approval, you will never get it. Because they don’t gain esteem (and clicks) by saying “hey you did a pretty good job”,

Just make the game you want to make with the characters you want, and don’t give a single thought to what these petty, resentful assholes will say about it.

 

[iorek21]

Not all games have to be about diversity or identity politics.

 

[Gaelyon]

Japan was pretty well documented for just how rare non asian races were, It's not true of Medeival Europe is the opposite, Now ofcourse it would be silly to make 10% of the population black/indian etc. But it would just be more "Historically accurate" if other races existed as traders and such.

So I could agree that it's silly of Yoshida simply saying "Historical accuracy" as a reason for a total lack of diversity, it's just inline with depictions of it. Especially when they are including Desert kingdoms that look more inspired by middle eastern culture.

Edit: scratch that I thought this was based on a prior interview, his current answer is way more sensible.
That all said I'm fine with if he simply said "I want it to look like lord of the rings"

Yes, it's the only point I'll concede to the journalist. There's a nation inspired by north African or middle east desert kingdom and there's no reason to not include characters from this nation with north African or middle east ethnicity.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

When it comes to gaming, to me it feels like some websites seem primarily interested in two things: telling their audience why not to play games; and pushing companies into commercial flops.

That's because they are pushing political agendas and don't actually care even a tiny bit about gaming.

 

[TheCed]

It's a bummer for sure.

Won't stop me from buying and enjoying the game.

But it's a bummer.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The funniest part is that Square just released a big RPG with a black female protagonist. They bent over backwards to try and make her all likeable and relatable to the modern audience and brought in BIPOC consultants to get their stamp of approval.

The result? She was almost universally disliked by the (overwhelmingly left-leaning) gaming press. Kotaku wrote some meandering hit piece about how non-black the dev team was. Some other joke of a gaming site (Destructiod maybe?) complained because they portrayed a black person in a fantasy world where racism doesn’t exist, instead of making her identity and victimhood the focus of her character.

The only conclusion I can take from this is you shouldn’t try to appease these fucking wackos. They’re liars and narcissists. Their goal isn’t to help minorities. Their true goal is to virtue signal and prove they are the most virtuous of all. No matter how hard you try to win their approval, you will never get it. Because they don’t gain esteem (and clicks) by saying “hey you did a pretty good job”,

Just make the game you want to make with the characters you want, and don’t give a single thought to what these petty, resentful assholes will say about it.

/thread

 

[Moneal]

The funniest part is that Square just released a big RPG with a black female protagonist. They bent over backwards to try and make her all likeable and relatable to the modern audience and brought in BIPOC consultants to get their stamp of approval.

The result? She was almost universally disliked by the (overwhelmingly left-leaning) gaming press. Kotaku wrote some meandering hit piece about how non-black the dev team was. Some other joke of a gaming site (Destructiod maybe?) complained because they portrayed a black person in a fantasy world where racism doesn’t exist, instead of making her identity and victimhood the focus of her character.

The only conclusion I can take from this is you shouldn’t try to appease these fucking wackos. They’re liars and narcissists. Their goal isn’t to help minorities. Their true goal is to virtue signal and prove they are the most virtuous of all. No matter how hard you try to win their approval, you will never get it. Because they don’t gain esteem (and clicks) by saying “hey you did a pretty good job”,

Just make the game you want to make with the characters you want, and don’t give a single thought to what these petty, resentful assholes will say about it.

Hell Hogwarts Legacy is probably the most inclusive game I have ever played, and those asshats either won't review it or bomb it because some lady said something. One reviewer even complained that the movies and books had all white faculty and then bashed the game for having too many minority professors. There is literally no winning with them.