[The Verge] Final Fantasy XVI has a medieval approach to diversity

Are you a diversity supporter?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 51 12.8%

  • I'm mix-raced, so by standard I am.

    Votes: 15 3.8%

  • My dick has two skin tones, that's as diverse as it can get.

    Votes: 106 26.6%

  • No, my royal bloodline can't be contaminated by getting in close proximity with inferior species.

    Votes: 92 23.1%

  • What was the question?

    Votes: 134 33.7%
  • Total voters
    398
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StylishMGTOW said:
Honestly, what I've noticed with these types of people is that: they claim they're for "people of colour", but are actually pretty racist themselves. It's like they hide behind the veil of righteousness and uses it as a sort of red herring for their actual beliefs.

For instance, I had a coworker who was obsessed with Tupac and BLM, but talked shit behind our black coworker's back to her clique of coworkers. It was an odd thing to experience.
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They tend to think white people are superior in every regard and feel it is their solemn duty to uplift the lesser races.
 
Gaelyon said:
Yes, it's the only point I'll concede to the journalist. There's a nation inspired by north African or middle east desert kingdom and there's no reason to not include characters from this nation with north African or middle east ethnicity.
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They do what they want, how they see it and what they want it to be.
Rest of the world doesn't really care so much about diversity (some places are mono-ethnicity, some places are mutual assimilation instead of forced one that makes so much trouble for western world) - they have their own share of problems, and no one from woke crowd really care about them, why should they care about woke "problems"?
 
Neofire said:
I support diversity but not in the way of throwing others under the bus.

I'm surprised the mods didn't check a few of those options in the polls lol suggesting a group is genetically "inferior" whether it was a joke or not is a bit much but I digress.
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The poll serves nothing but jokes. If you follow many famous stand up comedians you'll find way worse stuff but people just laugh and don't take it seriously. Consider it as a parody thread.
 
Make a game and make it good. I don't care what colour the characters are, what their sexual orientation is, or which policies/political parties they support 🙂
 
I can't help but think when "diversity" is wanted to be added, it's only as a means to add "diverse" characters to lecture the audience on modern day issues in a hamfisted fashion. No nuance and detracts from the story.
 
DonkeyPunchJr said:
The funniest part is that Square just released a big RPG with a black female protagonist. They bent over backwards to try and make her all likeable and relatable to the modern audience and brought in BIPOC consultants to get their stamp of approval.

The result? She was almost universally disliked by the (overwhelmingly left-leaning) gaming press. Kotaku wrote some meandering hit piece about how non-black the dev team was. Some other joke of a gaming site (Destructiod maybe?) complained because they portrayed a black person in a fantasy world where racism doesn't exist, instead of making her identity and victimhood the focus of her character.

The only conclusion I can take from this is you shouldn't try to appease these fucking wackos. They're liars and narcissists. Their goal isn't to help minorities. Their true goal is to virtue signal and prove they are the most virtuous of all. No matter how hard you try to win their approval, you will never get it. Because they don't gain esteem (and clicks) by saying "hey you did a pretty good job",

Just make the game you want to make with the characters you want, and don't give a single thought to what these petty, resentful assholes will say about it.
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I accepted at some point that you can't interpret these people in good faith. That makes me feel overly cynical, but I think it's accurate.

Not enough diversity in your game? They'll call you racist for it.

Make the main character a black woman from present-day New York, i.e. Forspoken? They'll call you racist because the opening cutscene shows her in court.

Make the main character NOT go to court? They'll call you racist for not "tackling real-world issues". (Ironically, reviews criticized Forspoken for this as well).

Make a game like Hogwarts Legacy that bends over backwards to have characters of all backgrounds and skin colors? These same outlets attacked it for appropriation, or because it doesn't make sense in-universe that modern-day Hogwarts isn't portrayed with the same level of diversity.

They don't actually want progress, because if they got what they claim they want, they wouldn't have anything to complain about anymore. Thus, there's literally no way to win.

For the record, I'm a lifelong progressive, and I think the ACTUAL values of diversity and inclusion are totally legit things to champion. I just no longer believe that's what these people are doing. To use their own language, they're appropriating those values for their own cause, which seems to mostly be to produce generic outrage clickbait. In a sense, this is doubly disgusting, because not only are they furthering societal anger and division, they're bastardizing and cheapening potential real progress to do so.
 
Square enix can do what they want, but the reasoning they gave was really thin. I am in an interracial marriage with mixed kids, but I don't have very strong feelings about it one way or another. I imagine though, it the roles were reversed, I may feel differently.

I can honestly say I can't help but notice how I feel when I see media portray females in traditional male roles, while the men trot around like bumbling idiots. I then tell myself, "self... this is probably what someone else feels like when their ethnicity/orientation/etc... is portrayed in unflattering ways, or completely unrepresented in the media I consume."

But alas, I'm generally apathetic to these things, maybe I shouldn't be.
 
So, let me get this straight. This game takes place somewhere that's not what I would call modern day Earth… I'm seeing freaking white guys, and… oh yeah, I'm talking to the Dev!
 
Yeah. Can we get a main character who uses a wheelchair and is blind for once! How am I supposed to enjoy these games if I can't see someone like myself in them.
 
They seem to be going for a medieval England vibe, in which case they need to get certain aspects of it right to maintain believability. I'm sorry, but mixed races coexisting is a modern scenario. It's too far fetched for a medieval society, and very immersion breaking. People back then were very isolated societies, and only trusting of their own people. Besides, it doesn't make sense for multiple races to be in a single area without modern interconnected economies with fast international travel.
 
Eotheod said:
Why not ask a historian? If it's based on the idea of medieval Europe, ask a historian what the fuck it may have been like during that period of time. You'll probably find high intersection of races due to the trading trends of Europe, so it'll likely be the case people of colour were actually around.

I know that's big thinking for GAF, they'd rather shit on Era mindsets and dog whistle the fuck out of racism, but the journalist should have also done some actual fucking research. Historians love to talk, they can't stop talking as soon as you invite them to share their knowledge. Same expectation from developers, if you are going medieval Europe then research the topic and not just think "well all the tv shows I see have only white Norse/British people so that must be it!"

There is always liberal freedom for creativity, no doubt about that and anyone arguing X or Y needs to be shoved in is only forcing their creative opinion. However, if you publicly state your game is based of historical context then it is expected that result is researched. It's why I really enjoyed Kingdom Come: Deliverance as it was heavily researched to showcase why the racial cast was how it portrayed.

Side note: yes I know the GAF comment will trigger people, I really give no cares there, and truthfully no one needs to care about this opinion all things considered. Just stating what I see in this thread and plenty of other politic focused ones.
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Except they do not want to see minorities represented in their realistic positions. It's even worse for them. Realistically, the minorities occupied positions like slaves, and lowly traders and circus entertainers. These people want minorities to be represented as welding enormous authority everywhere, like queens and high level politicians.
 
cdc.jpg


Why did you bump this Grizzled Ghost Grizzled Ghost
Sad Leonardo Dicaprio GIF
 
I am all for diversity and inclusiveness. Especially, in gaming.

With that said, I don't think diversity just has to devolve down to race. I'm Black and I'm not too bothered. The game can still have a diverse set of characters, whether it is their ideas, backgrounds, sexuality, etc. It doesn't have to be everything at once all the time.

I think it would be silly to get upset that a game set in an European Medieval fantasy setting consist of mainly European people.

I would like to see more ethnic diversity in Japanese games though. And more fantasy in other settings. Not just black people either, but Middle Eastern, Indian, Native American, South American, etc, like in Street Fighter.
 
hyperbertha said:
Except they do not want to see minorities represented in their realistic positions. It's even worse for them. Realistically, the minorities occupied positions like slaves, and lowly traders and circus entertainers. These people want minorities to be represented as welding enormous authority everywhere, like queens and high level politicians.
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This is the answer. Making it 'realistic' regarding people of colour would mean 'perpetuating racist class society'.
 
I love how she says "where his sentiments fall apart". Like if your game isn't diverse enough, we get to put you on trial. You must be lying in order to conceal your true motive (racism). If your arguments don't hold up (they never will) then you will be found guilty of the crime of racism.
 
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Thirty7ven said:
Would be great if English media stopped shoving their political nonsense on the whole world.

Maybe these people should take a trip to Japan and look around.

Not every piece of media needs to have this sort of scrutiny.
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Amen.

I might just buy this game purely out of spite for this total bullshit.
 
I am left leaning, and even I find forced diversity terrible. Just let the story teller tell their story. If it leads to lower sales, that is their choice.
 
Bo_Hazem said:
1.0.jpg

Ash Parrish

VIDEO GAMES REPORTER
Ash is a Video Games Reporter for The Verge with a focus on covering marginalized gamers and their communities, writing about the intersection of video games and sex, and finding a way to make the general video gaming public care about the Overwatch League.
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Wonder if Ash lays awake at night thinking about the great offense & injustice of Square Enix - I wish game journalists actually got bent out of shape about the state of Day 1 releases, rather than worrying about dipping their wick in diversity ink.
 
Diversity for diversities sake sucks ass, if it makes sense in the world your building or you have a particular character in mind you really wanna make go for it otherwise it's trash.
 
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TBH Yoshida's reasoning is probably fairly simple:

Japan is a homogenous society where Western people are fetishised (whitening of skin anyone?)
Same with Medieval Europe that is seen a bit like a theme park setting

So what do we do?
Fancy + fetish = white people in Medieval setting, a typical power fantasy in Japanese games

The 'grounded in reality medieval setting' is an obvious PR trick. Nothing wrong with that.
 
Cyberpunkd said:
TBH Yoshida's reasoning is probably fairly simple:

Japan is a homogenous society where Western people are fetishised (whitening of skin anyone?)
Same with Medieval Europe that is seen a bit like a theme park setting

So what do we do?
Fancy + fetish = white people in Medieval setting, a typical power fantasy in Japanese games

The 'grounded in reality medieval setting' is an obvious PR trick. Nothing wrong with that.
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East Asians naturally have skin color very similar to central and northern Europeans, and lighter skin tone was probably preferable long before Europeans started to go the region very often (that's why cream exist etc.).

There are reasons why humans have different skin tones in the first place, it's the amount of sunlight mostly, above (or below in south hemisphere) certain region human skin should naturally lighten up (and that's what happened in Europe and east Asia).

They make game that that is inspired by Europe, with European climate so it was probably just logical for them to put mostly white people in it. Massive migrations from Africa are fairly recent so Europe was 99% white for most of its history.

Of course here comes SJW and say that they are not allowed to do that 🤦
 
The Verge/Polygon
- masters of building a PC
- masters of double jump
- masters of first person shooter
And the newest thing: masters of diversity quota; because that's a thing important in videogames
 
Imagine a clothing shop where every single item comes in same seven-shade rainbow print. No plain colours, no black or white, just rainbow everything. Imagine pretending that shop had a 'diverse' range of clothing. Imagine arguing that creating anything other than seven-shade rainbow prints is problematic, homogeneous and harmful.
 
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Yes, but forced diversity isn't the way. Companies doing just to do it just brings resentment and people will never take the time to embrace it. I don't think the way it's being present is working either.
 
Square basically went the Tolkien route: Europe in the ancient past. Which pisses off people so much these days they do this to Aragorn:
498440.jpg


It doesn't matter that Tolkien literally described what Aragorn looked like. You gotta make a statement in the current year.
 
BbMajor7th said:
Imagine a clothing shop where every single item comes in same seven-shade rainbow print. No plain colours, no black or white, just rainbow everything. Imagine pretending that shop had a 'diverse' range of clothing. Imagine arguing that creating anything other than seven-shade rainbow prints is problematic, homogeneous and harmful.
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And now imagine the owner and customers of that clothing shop policing other going round to other clothing shops and telling everybody there that they're bad people for selling clothes that don't feature seven shade rainbow prints. Even when they're on holiday outside of the USA they visit stores and berate the local store owners (in English of course) for selling clothing that doesn't adhere to their very particular, rainbow colored standards.

BTW It's funny how the same people who scream "cultural appropriation!!" or "Mansplaining!" at every opportunity don't see the problem when THEY try to enforce their own American ultra-progressive cultural hang-ups about race, diversity, inclusivity and sexual mores on non-western cultures that have completely different socio-cultural and historical backgrounds.
 
deriks said:
The Verge/Polygon
- masters of building a PC
- masters of double jump
- masters of first person shooter
And the newest thing: masters of diversity quota; because that's a thing important in videogames
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Best part is they doubled down and played the "race card" when people mocked that PC building video.
 
Can't wait for the reviews, so I know who to ignore if they bring this up and score it lower as a result of this. They definitely wouldn't be bringing it up if it was an all black game with no white characters. I see the other moronic place are calling for reviewers to score it lower as a result of this.
 
EDMIX EDMIX Just take a look at AC Mirage, it's like 99% Arabs and makes sense. Have we played FF16 and seen all characters yet? No, but having even 100% native Europeans is ok to me, and any other race introduced should make sense and not forced down our throats.
 
Pandering is a live example of: Give them an inch, they take a mile.

You cannot please those people and you shouldn't try. You do one little concession to please them, and they start making demands and act like they own you. The developer doesn't need any reason to have an all-white cast other than the fact that this is what they want. This is their production, their creation and therefore, they can do whatever the fuck they want. The ones complaining are always the same; a bunch of talentless, parasitic hacks who do nothing but criticize and complain about creative works they couldn't come up with in their wildest dreams.

It's like with the Ubisoft showcase where there wasn't a woman and now they bitch about it. Many publishers heard the message loud and clear in the past and made a conceited effort to add women to their presentations but now those slimeballs DEMAND women. Maybe there was no one available or none that really fit so they went with the people they deemed the most competent for the job (the thing that should always be done)? The bottom line is, you cannot make demands for something you're not helping or contributing bring to life. You STFU and let whoever's in charge do what they want and if you're not happy with the result, don't support it. That's it. No need for that cringe crusade for minorities and harassing the developer with stupid questions. And look at who wrote the article:

Ash is a Video Games Reporter for The Verge with a focus on covering marginalized gamers and their communities, writing about the intersection of video games and sex, and finding a way to make the general video gaming public care about the Overwatch League.
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Ah, yes, another one of those losers lmao. What a surprise.

I won't buy FF XVI because I've always hated FF, think it's shit and cringe, hate the art style, settings, battle systems, and everything else about it and have had since I've known it. For those who like it, enjoy your time and I hope you have a blast. Fuck those untalented goons trying to drag the game in the mud for a non-issue.
 
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Gaiff said:
Pandering is a live example of: Give them an inch, they take a mile.

You cannot please those people and you shouldn't try. You do one little concession to please them, and they start making demands and act like they own you. The developer doesn't need any reason to have an all-white cast other than the fact that this is what they want. This is their production, their creation and therefore, they can do whatever the fuck they want. The ones complaining are always the same; a bunch of talentless, parasitic hacks who do nothing but criticize and complain about creative works they couldn't come up with in their wildest dreams.

It's like with the Ubisoft showcase where there wasn't a woman and now they bitch about it. Many publishers heard the message loud and clear in the past and made a conceited effort to add women to their presentations but now those slimeballs DEMAND women. Maybe there was no one available or none that really fit so they went with the people they deemed the most competent for the job (the thing that should always be done)? The bottom line is, you cannot make demands for something you're not helping or contributing bring to life. You STFU and let whoever's in charge do what they want and if you're not happy with the result, don't support it. That's it. No need for that cringe crusade for minorities and harassing the developer with stupid questions. And look at who wrote the article:



Ah, yes, another one of those losers lmao. What a surprise.

I won't buy FF XVI because I've always hated FF, think it's shit and cringe, hate the art style, settings, battle systems, and everything else about it and have had since I've known it. For those who like it, enjoy your time and I hope you have a blast. Fuck those untalented goons trying to drag the game in the mud for a non-issue.
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Dude this one feels more like ff mixed with game of thrones and devil may cry, try at least the demo.
 
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GymWolf said:
Dude this one feels more like ff mixed with gameof thrones and devil may cry, try at least the demo.
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Might give it a go but every FF I tried, I ended up disliking. Most recently, I tried FFVII Remake and got bored.

There's just too much stuff out there to bother with games you're not interested in. FF games also tend to be very long and with huge games like Starfield, Spider-Man, Lords of the Fallen on the horizon, along with the humongous one I'm playing in now TOTK, it's unlikely I'll bother with FF XVI.

I hope it's good for those who like it though and I might pick it up down the line if it's really good. Who knows? I might end up liking it.
 
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