Support NeoGAF

[StuBurns]

Where is the problem with this?

Final Fantasy from decades became a franchise like Super Mario, it's not anymore a specific saga. If Mario, successfully, can have olympics games, kart games, golf games, tennis games, puzzle games and so on, why can't Final Fantasy?

I'm not an shareholder, I don't care if the countless dogshit Mario games sell or not, I care if they're good, and they're not. It doesn't hurt my appreciation of real Mario games, but it hurts my opinion of Nintendo as being tasteless.

Final Fantasy used to be very important to me, and many others, but they're milking it too hard I think, to the point where the name means nothing to me, I only care based on what team is making it. There's every chance I won't even buy XIII-2. For someone who was crazy about the IP just a generation ago, that's very disappointing.

I should get excited just seeing "Final Fantasy Announced" in a thread title, now I click with hesitation.

 

[grumpy]

Needs a weirder name. This one is almost readable.

Final Fantasy: Bullshitium Pretintium Onomium: Septem(MMXI / MMXI)

 

[mysteriousmage09]

Just saw the scans....what is the hell......

 

[Axkil aka StabMasterArson]

I'm not an shareholder, I don't care if the countless dogshit Mario games sell or not, I care if they're good, and they're not. It doesn't hurt my appreciation of real Mario games, but it hurts my opinion of Nintendo as being tasteless.

Final Fantasy used to be very important to me, and many others, but they're milking it too hard I think, to the point where the name means nothing to me, I only care based on what team is making it. There's every chance I won't even buy XIII-2. For someone who was crazy about the IP just a generation ago, that's very disappointing.

I should get excited just seeing "Final Fantasy Announced" in a thread title, now I click with hesitation.

Got it all out? Feel much better? Just checked out the scan and the game looks pretty good so far

 

[StuBurns]

Got it all out? Feel much better? Just checked out the scan and the game looks pretty good so far

He wanted an elaboration.

 

[walking fiend]

My complaint with their brand overuse isn't that I'm personally offended by it, but rather that they're continually eroding their brands, causing them to have less money, which ultimately causes them to make fewer risky games as they're afraid of anything bombing.

but it started after VII, they began going downhill after that, although you may argue it was because of tactics.

I believe it has got to do with making average games; they tried to milk the brand instead of building upon, at least around, it. The mainline series has gotten worse too. It's not like that if they could make spin off games on par with the mainline games, it would have actually damaged the brand.

I think Saka leaving was really impacftul as well.

 

[MrDanger88]

SE's streak of being unable to name their games intelligently continues.

 

[mclem]

It was already mentioned that this is a Dissidia spin-off, and it's story will be related to the overarching Dissidia plot.

The only things I can find appear to state that *like* Dissidia, it will have lots of vignettes with an overarching plot, not that it's actually a Dissidia spin-off. That said, I may have been reading mistranslations.

 

[StuBurns]

but it started after VII, they began going downhill after that, although you may argue it was because of tactics.

I believe it has got to do with making average games; they tried to milk the brand instead of building upon, at least around, it. The mainline series has gotten worse too. It's not like that if they could make spin off games on par with the mainline games, it would have actually damaged the brand.

I think Saka leaving was really impacftul as well.

Lots of people consider Tactics to be the best Final Fantasy.

 

[Perfo]

I'm not an shareholder, I don't care if the countless dogshit Mario games sell or not, I care if they're good, and they're not.

They're not?
Mario Kart is not a good game?
Mario Golf is not a good game?
Mario Strikers is not a good game?
Mario & Luigi is not a good game?
Mario Party is not a good game?
Mario Tennis is not a good game?
Mario RPG is not a good game?

Countless Mario's titles are considered good, avarage or masterpieces. Very rarely they've been considered mediocre.

Final Fantasy used to be very important to me, and many others, but they're milking it too hard I think, to the point where the name means nothing to me, I only care based on what team is making it. There's every chance I won't even buy XIII-2. For someone who was crazy about the IP just a generation ago, that's very disappointing.

I think the best way to approch the so called-milking is to consider Final Fantasy not anymore a brand or a saga, but like Mario a franchise. Inside the franchise, you can find selected titles that appeal to you, and others that not. The same thing happened to Mario everytime, with titles celebrated by many and others by not so many (Mario Kart vs Olympics). Still, Mario Galaxy 2 is one of the best game ever produced, and it's called Mario. This is to say, that milking doesn't necessary hurt the brand overall.

The "name" helps developing ideas and selling them to a wider audience, titles that many times are too risky to develop. Look at Dissidia, it's a fun and original title that without that name, couldn't be - probably - developed.

 

[Deleted member 20920]

Lots of people consider Tactics to be the best Final Fantasy.

Maybe he meant that the success of Tactics propelled them into making FF branded games.

 

[French]

Looks like a flash game, I guess the Vita will get the more ambitious FF titles.

 

[StuBurns]

I think the best way to approch the so called-milking is to consider Final Fantasy not anymore a brand or a saga, but like Mario a franchise. Inside the franchise, you can find selected titles that appeal to you, and others that not. The same thing happen to Mario everytime, with titles celebrated by many and other by not so many (Mario Kart vs Olympics). Still, Mario Galaxy 2 is one of the best gave ever produced, and it's called Mario. This to say, that milking doesn't necessary damage the brand overall.

The "name" helps developing ideas and selling them to a wider audience, titles that many times are too risky to develop. Look at Dissidia, it's a fun and original title that without that name, couldn't be - probably - developed.

There is no objective evaluation to say they're good, but not, I don't think most Mario games are at all. Nor is Dissidia, nor were the CC subseries games.

Again though, I'm not saying it doesn't help sell copies, I'm just saying it makes me think less of the IP and the IP holders.

Maybe he meant that the success of Tactics propelled them into making FF branded games.

Good point, you might be correct.

 

[Ushojax]

Doesn't sound that bad? A mixture of Patapon and Final Fantasy could be quite cool. I hope they go for a more cartoonish style.

 

[Perfo]

Actually, one of the reasons people are critical about their strategy here is because it's actually not been working so well for them.

I was thinking we were just speaking of quality

Yes, the brand itself is probably loosing a bit of popularity here and there, and that's something Mario is not doing for sure. I simply don't know if the interest gone down for the low quality of some titles, or simply because the brand lost its momentum.

I think there are factors to consider before running to conclusions: an overall narrowing of the japanese market, and an overall narrowing of the JRPGs market. Perhaps, it's not just FF loosing numbers, it's the entire japanese industry (let's keep Nintendo out) and the entire JRPG market. If we admit this, we can't really say that the franchise itself lost momentum, it's just more big than that.

That said, Square Enix makes better numbers with FF games than other experiments, that itself should force them to continue toward this. Now, the only real concerns is to keep main FF solid, especially in the west. Spin-offs are small titles to produce most of the times, easy cash-in, low-risks. Main FF can't loose momentum, they simply can't afford. They have to expand that somehow (don't ask me how lol ~), while working on some new IP to backup FF in case of needs.

 

[walking fiend]

Maybe he meant that the success of Tactics propelled them into making FF branded games.

I don't really believe decline in the sales has got much to do with tactics myself, but maybe others do.

Looks like a flash game, I guess the Vita will get the more ambitious FF titles.

PSP got crisis core and it managed to sell over 2 million worldwide, I can't expect to see the situation changes now, considering the competition between vita and 3ds

I think there are factors to consider before running to conclusions: an overall narrowing of the japanese market, and an overall narrowing of the JRPGs market. Perhaps, it's not just FF loosing numbers, it's the entire japanese industry (let's keep Nintendo out) and the entire JRPG market. If we admit this, we can't really say that the franchise itself lost momentum, it's just more big than that.

he was speaking about japan numbers, that is what nirolak provided.

regardless, DQ IX is the best selling DQ game ever, selling over 5 million. almost 1.5 million outside of japan. It is a pretty mechanical jRPG jRPG as well, not nearly as cinematic and story driven as FF.

 

[mutsu]

Looks like a flash game, I guess the Vita will get the more ambitious FF titles.

This is exactly the problem with some "gamers" nowadays. Sees like 2 screenshots of a scan of a game, thinks it looks like a Flash game, and dismisses it completely.

At least see the game in motion first before making any judgments, instead of jumping to conclusions. At least understand the gameplay mechanics first before saying it's not going to be a good game. This game is not about the looks, rather about the music and the gameplay.

Seriously I commend Square-Enix for trying this out, it really does look interesting. At least it doesn't look like half-assed attempts to create an RPG and just slap the name Final Fantasy on it. There looks like some creativity behind this, and I am eager to find out more.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Lots of people consider Tactics to be the best Final Fantasy.

FFT is just a shitty tactics ogre clone (with lots of the key staff behind tactics ogre involved)

 

[StuBurns]

This is exactly the problem with some "gamers" nowadays. Sees like 2 screenshots of a scan of a game, thinks it looks like a Flash game, and dismisses it completely.

At least see the game in motion first before making any judgments, instead of jumping to conclusions. At least understand the gameplay mechanics first before saying it's not going to be a good game. This game is not about the looks, rather about the music and the gameplay.

Seriously I commend Square-Enix for trying this out, it really does look interesting. At least it doesn't look like half-assed attempts to create an RPG and just slap the name Final Fantasy on it. There's looks like some creativity behind this, and I am eager to find out more.

Why do you assume looking like a flash game means it's bad? Machinarium is a flash game for example.

Dissidia is an awesome fighting game. In addition to FFT, that is probably the worst example to use as an "bad FF spin-off". And the DS Crystal Chronicles games are fun coop games if you can find people to play them with. Kinda boring alone, much better in coop.

And seriously, you think Mario Karts, Paper Marios and Mario & Luigi games are bad? Wtf is this I don't even... :|

I disagree it's awesome. I've not played the sequel though, maybe that is.

And no, I don't think Paper Mario is bad. I didn't say all Mario games.

 

[Famassu]

There is no objective evaluation to say they're good, but not, I don't think most Mario games are at all. Nor is Dissidia, nor were the CC subseries games.

Dissidia is an awesome fighting game. In addition to FFT, that is probably the worst example to use as an "bad FF spin-off". And the DS Crystal Chronicles games are fun coop games if you can find people to play them with. Kinda boring alone, much better in coop. Don't get me wrong, they aren't anything super-incredible, but for portable coop games, you could certainly do a lot worse.

And seriously, you think Mario Karts, Paper Marios and Mario & Luigi games are bad? Wtf is this I don't even... :|

 

[mclem]

Once, a game with "Final Fantasy" in the name is synonym of "Awesome".

Now, whenever I see a new game "Final Fantasy" that doesn't have a roman numeric after it, I think to myself "Stay away from it".

13 has a roman numeral after it. Dissidia does not.

 

[mutsu]

Why do you assume looking like a flash game means it's bad? Machinarium is a flash game for example.

Not saying all Flash games are bad, but lots of people are using the term to refer to games that lack depth and quality.

The point is, this game might actually be fun, but without more information just don't dismiss it so quickly.

 

[jaxword]

The point is also, they NEED to slap the name on it, because they are using the music of the games as a fan service afterall. Without the FF music, this game is but an empty shell.

How do you know it's so empty when it was just announced?

 

[mclem]

And no, I don't think Paper Mario is bad. I didn't say all Mario games.

But Mario & Luigi is? It's the same basic gameplay with a slightly different aesthetic!

 

[stalker]

If this is actually good as a rhythm game, then I am interested. Looks promising.

 

[StuBurns]

Not saying all Flash games are bad, but lots of people are using the term to refer to games that lack depth and quality.

The point is, this game might actually be fun, but without more information just don't dismiss it so quickly.

Maybe that was the intent, when I read "looks like a flash game" I don't see it as a pejorative.

 

[GunbladeV]

Looks interesting to me, if done right it could be pretty fun. They easily have the music for it.

 

[Rpgmonkey]

I think the best way to approch the so called-milking is to consider Final Fantasy not anymore a brand or a saga, but like Mario a franchise. Inside the franchise, you can find selected titles that appeal to you, and others that not. The same thing happened to Mario everytime, with titles celebrated by many and others by not so many (Mario Kart vs Olympics). Still, Mario Galaxy 2 is one of the best game ever produced, and it's called Mario. This is to say, that milking doesn't necessary hurt the brand overall.

The "name" helps developing ideas and selling them to a wider audience, titles that many times are too risky to develop. Look at Dissidia, it's a fun and original title that without that name, couldn't be - probably - developed.

I think the problem is that unlike say, Mario to Nintendo or Mickey Mouse to Disney, a single representative, and one that's versatile enough to be smoothly brought into any concept, doesn't really exist for Final Fantasy.

No one bats an eye at Mario in a tennis game because it's not like Mario has some goal that's been finished for good or he's only athletic enough to be good at jumping, and many of the Mario games actually are contained within Mario's own world. It's not like he's teaming up with Donkey Kong to save Hyrule from a Metroid invasion, it's generally all within the Mushroom Kingdom or neighboring regions. This makes it easier for people to get attached to the name and the character(s) featured under it.

A lot of Final Fantasy games have separate stories/characters with a true conclusion and no one representative. This lends itself well to more adventurous spinoffs being made under the name, but I suppose if you do it enough times and have a few blunders here and there, it gets more difficult for people to find worth in the name, and unless it's things like chocobos or spells, there's not much featured in every single title under the FF name that people can latch onto.

I think your other point about the Japanese market may play a role in this as well, there's other properties that have probably also already reached their peak sometime in the past.

 

[Londa]

Do not want!

 

[nemesun]

So some Square exec stumbled on that joke site with the Final Fantasy name generator?

Edit: Here...

http://www.the-pause-button.com/square-enix-generator

Kingdom Hearts A Posteriori Unborn
That's that then.

 

[Izayoi]

Finally, the 3DS gets its first killer app!

 

[near]

Wow, it actually doesn't look that bad.

 

[Urban Scholar]

RPG with music as its mechanic? This is crazy talk. Oh, Onion Knight why are you so under rated.

 

[RurouniZel]

Well, this game is going to go one of two ways. It will either completely and utterly suck, or be the most amazing thing since sliced bread.

I'll wait for more info.

 

[Gromph]

http://kotaku.com/5818433/final-fantasy-the-music-game

 

[storafötter]

Hey I will remain optimistic, I dont get why people are craving for a possible lackluster RPG from Square. If they made an FFXIII type of game again but on handhelds I wouldnt be excited unless they cut the story and cutscenes.

I think it is a great concept if the game uses all the best classic songs from the FF series. Then with some twists in the gameplay rhytm department.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

This will release and everyone will love it. Just wait.

 

[Stumpokapow]

At first I thought the title was "threat rhythm" and while it wasn't a great title, I couldn't understand why everyone on Twitter and elsewhere was complaining about it.

But it's actually "theat rhythm" like "thee ay turr urr ythm". Uh huh.

Maybe they should leave the English puns and neologisms to, I don't know, native English speakers?

 

[madmaxx350]

now they need to port it to Vita , then I won't mind whatever the hell the call it

 

[gkryhewy]

This actually looks pretty cool. Will keep an eye on it.

 

[AniHawk]

At first I thought the title was "threat rhythm" and while it wasn't a great title, I couldn't understand why everyone on Twitter and elsewhere was complaining about it.

But it's actually "theat rhythm" like "thee ay turr urr ythm". Uh huh.

Maybe they should leave the English puns and neologisms to, I don't know, native English speakers?

i thought it was the at rhythm.

 

[dramatis]

This will release and everyone will love it. Just wait.

More likely it'll be a divisive or disappointing game.

At this point, we need a diagram of the Final Fantasy Cycle.

 

[DiscoJer]

Still makes more sense than Dissidia 012 Duodecim Prologus Final Fantasy

While it's obscure, there was a Roman game called Ludus duodecim scriptorum.

I think they were sort of thinking of that. Why they were thinking of that, I dunno, but there is perhaps a sense behind the name...

 

[AceBandage]

Horrid name. Awesome idea.

I always thought a full fledged rhythm RPG would be great.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Except for KH:3D which is probably at least 1 year or more away, SE 3DS support is laughable.

 

[PokéKong]

If all of visuals are just for show and its basically just like Taiko Drum Master FF Edition and structured like every other arcade music game, then thumbs down, toss it out, lock the thread now.

If it actually is a light RPG adventure with its own lighthearted story and just the battles are musical themed and feel like an exciting tightly timing-based Mario & Luigi-style system, then it better damn well come out here. Activate OPERATION THEATRHYTHMFALL.

 

[Krev]

At first I thought the title was "threat rhythm" and while it wasn't a great title, I couldn't understand why everyone on Twitter and elsewhere was complaining about it.

But it's actually "theat rhythm" like "thee ay turr urr ythm". Uh huh.

Maybe they should leave the English puns and neologisms to, I don't know, native English speakers?

Isn't it pronounced "thee aa tr ythm". I don't think you have to pronounce rhythm and theatre as separate words.
Theatre + Rhythm = Theat r hythm = Theatrrhythm

Hilariously enough, I think this is the easiest to pronounce non-mainline FF or KH title in a while.

 

[Perfo]

At first I thought the title was "threat rhythm" and while it wasn't a great title, I couldn't understand why everyone on Twitter and elsewhere was complaining about it.

But it's actually "theat rhythm" like "thee ay turr urr ythm". Uh huh.

Maybe they should leave the English puns and neologisms to, I don't know, native English speakers?

And here I was thinking it meant Theater-Rhythm XD

 

[Stumpokapow]

And here I was thinking it meant Theater-Rhythm XD

Well, it does, you just roll the last syllable of "theatre" and the first of "rhythm" together awkwardly.

 

[CiSTM]

Going by the scans this actually looks pretty cool. I don't really mind these cash in games long as they are good.