Support NeoGAF

[zon]

I loved NWN. Why was Bioware "crucified" for it?

The single player campaign was really bad. The story was bad, the balancing was bad, skills were bugged, spells were broken or overpowered. To this day you will still be told to turn off the option "Shiny Water" in the graphics menu because it can cause the game to crash. Overall, the game was a bugridden mess when it first came out. It took maybe two years of patches before the majority of the bugs/problems were fixed.

What NWN has though, is the greatest toolset I have ever seen. So many worlds were created with the NWN toolset. There were some real gems among them too. Most of them are gone now but I know that at least one is still around. It's called "Three Towns", shortened to 3T. Their developer team managed to max out the amount of code a module is allowed to have back in 2012 so that put a stop to further content though. 3T has been around since 2002 however, it was not maxed out in six months.

 

[Blackheim]

Kevin sez:

TL;DR: Thanks!, what's next, and the stronghold we didn't reach.

Hi!

All of us made history yesterday, reaching a new record for the most funded video game on Kickstarter! Thank you so much for your support, both through your pledges and through your spreading the word to others.

We had 74,405 backers on Kickstarter, raising $4,188,927. As of midmorning yesterday, we had about 2K backers and $127K through PayPal. In the last day, we reached the two major Stretch Goals at $4M and $4.25M, and also the 12th Fathom, and we’re thrilled to be able to add these aspects to Torment!

Thanks also to everyone who came to the party yesterday (either in person or virtually). In case you missed it, you can view the video at http://www.twitch.tv/inxile_entertainment/b/387052030, though we plan to edit into it into a more focused video sometime in the future.
So, What’s Next?

Colin and I are meeting today and tomorrow to plan the next steps before he returns to Michigan on Monday. We’ll send an Update on Monday with the final totalsand some additional information about add-ons and the PayPal store. As before, the majority of the team at inXile HQ continues to charge forward on Wasteland 2.

Meanwhile, after a short break to recover from the intense past couple months, our Torment pre-production team will be moving ahead. We’ll be looking at the gross total of funds raised and determine how much we project for the development budget (i.e., taking into account the fees and costs of physical goods and fulfillment). Over the upcoming weeks, we’ll be developing our plan for Torment and better establishing the scope of the game. Meanwhile, we’ll also be working more on the creative and design aspects of the game, in preparation to fully engage the writers later this year.
Stronghold and the $4.5M Stretch Goal

We don’t have the final PayPal numbers yet, but we expect to be far short of the $4.5M Stretch Goal. (While Torment’s budget will be bolstered by the generous $200K total in contributions from Brian Fargo and Steve Dengler (@dracogen), these aren’t included in the Stretch Goal calculations. The Stretch Goals were set with these contributions already considered – that is, the $200K sum didn’t apply to determining whether or not we reached any given Stretch Goal. But all of it will be applied to creating a better game and help counterbalance the impact of fees and dropped pledges.)

Many backers have asked about the “Stronghold” that was at the $4.5M Stretch Goal, however. At your request and suggestion, what we’ll do is allow all PayPal contributions through the end of April to count toward determining whether or not we reached this goal. On Monday, we’ll tell you exactly how far we have left to go and through the end of the month we’ll provide more frequent updates on tumblr and Facebook about progress toward that $4.5M goal.

If we do make it by the end of April 30th, we’ll declare that final Stretch Goal achieved! In this case we would include the Stronghold, designing it to fit the flavor of Numenera and to fully support Torment’s themes and narrative.

We cannot say enough how much we appreciate your support. We are very much looking forward to creating Torment: Tides of Numenera for you. You have made this game possible.

Thank you,

Kevin Saunders
Project Lead

 

[trab pu kcip]

ok we will have the stronghold^^ I knew it.

 

[dude]

I expected them to do something like this. Hope we reach the stronghold.

About BioWare... I think I would give a hypothetical BG spirtual-successor KS by them money. I mean, yeah, they have released nothing but shit since BG2, but I think BG2 is the best IE game in basically every category, and all the talent is still there. I think, if they showed me that they wanted to recreate that old experience... I think I might just be too tempted.

 

[Zeliard]

Don't give them any ideas, please.

 

[Llyranor]

There should be a negative Kickstarter campaign where people can pledge money that gets actively subtracted from the total level that Bioware kickstarter would get.

 

[trab pu kcip]

There should be a negative Kickstarter campaign where people can pledge money that gets actively subtracted from the total level that Bioware kickstarter would get.

this made me giggle

 

[Lime]

There should be a negative Kickstarter campaign where people can pledge money that gets actively subtracted from the total level that Bioware kickstarter would get.

Tag-worthy.

 

[Dennis]

So we are getting the Stronghold after all, huh?

It seems my bitching post did the trick and made Fargo give in.

 

[jd78]

I expected them to do something like this. Hope we reach the stronghold.

About BioWare... I think I would give a hypothetical BG spirtual-successor KS by them money. I mean, yeah, they have released nothing but shit since BG2, but I think BG2 is the best IE game in basically every category, and all the talent is still there. I think, if they showed me that they wanted to recreate that old experience... I think I might just be too tempted.

Bioware itself probably won't have a Kickstarter since they are under the EA umbrella.

I have a theory (or maybe wishful thinking)... I think the Bioware Doctors are currently under some non-competition agreement when they "retired". I would not be surprised to see some sort of Kickstarter where they go back to their roots once they are free of that restriction. Because of licensing, I don't expect it will be BG related, but if it was a compelling enough RPG idea, I'd back them.

Unfortunately publishers have no interest in making the types of RPGs most of us in this thread seem to love. It's all about the graphics, multiplayer, etc. Kickstarter may be the only way we get to see the games we really care about get made, and for now, I am ok with that.

 

[Brother None]

It seems my bitching post did the trick and made Fargo give in.

Yes, it was you. :salute:

 

[trab pu kcip]

Yes, it was you. :salute:

Dennis
Fargo's pet
(Today, 10:05 PM)

 

[SquiddyCracker]

I heard someone hate NWN?

:'(

The good news is that we might get the fortress!

 

[AstroZombie]

Because that's actually his one of his wife's stage uniforms (this is his wife). It's not exactly a comfortable fit.

That's a nice bit of trivia.

Will buying add-ons count towards the stronghold goal? I'm thinking about buying a bunch of them.

 

[Eusis]

To be honest I think if Bioware didn't let themselves get bought by EA it probably WOULD be a good idea for them to pursue it, it seems a lot of the problems with their recent games stem from aiming for massive budgets and being safe, but if they had to worry less they'd probably put out a pretty good game. Obsidian comes off as way, way ahead in regards to story telling, and inXile at least seems to have gotten great talent for that, but Bioware does OK and makes fun games that balance it, and that's fine with me.

That's a nice bit of trivia.

Will buying add-ons count towards the stronghold goal? I'm thinking about buying a bunch of them.

We get to 4.5 million purely through t-shirts.

 

[bengraven]

I heard someone hate NWN?

:'(

The good news is that we might get the fortress!

I don't let it bother me.

KOTOR and NWN get a lot of shit for "ruining" Bioware, but they were the games that hooked me on the company in the first place. I later went back and bought their earlier games.

While I never beat NWN, I beat the SHIT out of KOTOR three or four times and still rank it in my top ten RPGs ever. Great characters, environments, and story. I don't care how much hate it gets.

Someday I'll have to play KOTOR2.

Because that's actually his one of his wife's stage uniforms (this is his wife). It's not exactly a comfortable fit.

Holy FUCK, he's married to ROBIN!?

 

[AstroZombie]

NWN had some nice music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb133m_AEnY

 

[Deleted member 102362]

Many backers have asked about the “Stronghold” that was at the $4.5M Stretch Goal, however. At your request and suggestion, what we’ll do is allow all PayPal contributions through the end of April to count toward determining whether or not we reached this goal. On Monday, we’ll tell you exactly how far we have left to go and through the end of the month we’ll provide more frequent updates on tumblr and Facebook about progress toward that $4.5M goal.

That's cool. They'll need about $184,073 to reach the goal, but with the rest of the month to get it, I think they can pull it off.

 

[Brother None]

Will buying add-ons count towards the stronghold goal?

Of course. All PayPal pledges. New one, upgrades, add-ons, whatever.

 

[AstroZombie]

Of course. All PayPal pledges. New one, upgrades, add-ons, whatever.

 

[theSlacker]

That's cool. They'll need about $184,073 to reach the goal, but with the rest of the month to get it, I think they can pull it off.

Idk bro. They only got what, $130k in paypal though the entire time it has been up so far? That was with the advertisement of everyone knowing that the kickstarter is running. Sure you couldn't go though paypal at the start, but it was there pretty fast.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Interesting to see how much money is lost in bad charges along with kickstarter fees and having to ship physical goods. I imagine they actually end up with 3-3.5 mil for the actual game after its all done.

 

[Deleted member 102362]

Idk bro. They only got what, $130k in paypal though the entire time it has been up so far? That was with the advertisement of everyone knowing that the kickstarter is running. Sure you couldn't go though paypal at the start, but it was there pretty fast.

That means Fargo and Friends (which should totally be a Saturday morning cartoon about a bunch of developers working in the gaming industry) should bolster that particular avenue of advertising.

I'm now imaging a cartoon version of Fargo, and it is adorable.

 

[ExigentContact]

hm I can only speak for myself but I hope the KS games get the attention they deserve & make enough money to keep the machinery going but I don't see a bigger market for games like this anymore & it's probably better to keep it that way. honest artists like the current torment team don't even have the ambition to achieve anything like that as we heard several times. I'm happy with my kickstarter and indie games and for all I care all the AAA suckers can go to hell

Of course. I'd like CRPGs to return to form with or without AAA developers breathing down the throat of the market. Probably for the best if they don't. That said, I would also like mainstream RPGs to adopt more in-depth roleplaying mechanics, as well. If both markets can succeed independently I'll be perfectly happy. As of yet we haven't really seen the fruits of the crowdsourced RPG movement and the performance of WL2 will probably be very telling for the future since it will be among the first. Fingers crossed.

 

[Zukuu]

The waiting time is killing me already lol

 

[A Black Falcon]

I loved NWN. Why was Bioware "crucified" for it?

It's probably been said, but basically Bioware overpromised with that game, and then massively under-delivered. They were coming off of Baldur's Gate II, one of the best games ever, so expectations were very high, but they game totally failed to live up to them. The graphics are mediocre and repetitive, the story is bland at best (particularly in the base game), the game doesn't allow you to control an entire party (this alone is a crippling flaw!), etc, etc... NWN had some good multiplayer support, but the main single player game was a failure. Even KotOR looked good compared to that thing, and KotOR was no BG2 either, that's for sure.

 

[Synth_floyd]

So how long until the game actually comes out? I really hope the game can live up to the hype.

 

[Loxley]

So how long until the game actually comes out? I really hope the game can live up to the hype.

I would guess 2014 at this point.

 

[AstroZombie]

2015.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

So how long until the game actually comes out? I really hope the game can live up to the hype.

Their original projection was December 2014 but then they said it will be some more months after that to add all the additional content we've been paying for.

I think we can also see when WL2 releases and use that as a decent barometer of how late it will be relative to the original projected release date.

 

[Onemic]

So how long until the game actually comes out? I really hope the game can live up to the hype.

Id say 2015

 

[Casimir]

I vaguely recall them promising some sort of link between BG2 and NWN, be it character imports or something. In any event they made a promise to diehard baldur's gate fans and when NWN didn't live up to expectations set by BG2 goodwill evaporated just like that.

You just described the promise and reception arc of both the Dragon Age games and Mass Effect trilogy.

--------

On point, I never knew about any promises of BG2 and NWN. I purchased NWN due to Bioware's work on BG2 and the pre-release information. Looking back at the quality of the game, if NWN had been released as Bioware's first title instead of a BG sequel, it would have garnered a better reception with players. As it stands, NWN was a disappointment considering the pedigree of the developer.

Edit:
A Black Falcon goes into more depth about some of NWN's issues.

 

[PFD]

I expected them to do something like this. Hope we reach the stronghold.

About BioWare... I think I would give a hypothetical BG spirtual-successor KS by them money. I mean, yeah, they have released nothing but shit since BG2, but I think BG2 is the best IE game in basically every category, and all the talent is still there. I think, if they showed me that they wanted to recreate that old experience... I think I might just be too tempted.

How do you know that?

 

[AstroZombie]

How do you know that?

(Baldur's Gate 2)

Lead Design - Kevin Martens ---> worked on all Bioware's subsequent projects, left after Dragon Age 2 for Diablo 3

Director of Writing and Design - James Ohlen ---> worked on all Bioware's subsequent projects, now senior director of creative design at Bioware

Lead Programmer - Mark Darrah ---> worked on all Bioware's subsequent projects, now executive producer of Dragon Age franchise at Bioware

Design - David Gaider, Brent Knowles, Lukas Kristjanson, John Winski ---> all still at Bioware


etc.

From this, I guess.

 

[Jenga]

I'm really curious how the sales of KS-funded million dollar AAA games will go. I assume most people who already want the game donated when it became fully funded and just wanted to help w/ the extras and stretch content. Does the InXile team actually have an a sale projection or is it just "it's funded, we'll worry about sales when we ship/press magic DD button!"

 

[Zeliard]

I'm really curious how the sales of KS-funded million dollar AAA games will go. I assume most people who already want the game donated when it became fully funded and just wanted to help w/ the extras and stretch content. Does the InXile team actually have an a sale projection or is it just "it's funded, we'll worry about sales when we ship/press magic DD button!"

Well that's the great thing about Kickstarter - the game is basically funded, unless there are problems in development and they have to delay it. Whatever the devs make from selling it on release is basically gravy, and it all goes directly to the developers outside of potential digital distribution costs.

 

[Jenga]

Well that's the great thing about Kickstarter - the game is basically funded, unless there are problems in development and they have to delay it. Whatever the devs make from selling it on release is basically gravy, and it all goes directly to the developers outside of potential digital distribution costs.

So I'm not a bad man for waiting to buy on release? :3

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I vaguely recall them promising some sort of link between BG2 and NWN, be it character imports or something. In any event they made a promise to diehard baldur's gate fans and when NWN didn't live up to expectations set by BG2 goodwill evaporated just like that.

One of the loading screen tips in BG2 (or maybe just in the ToB expansion) even said to keep your saves to import into NWN. Guess they just had no idea what they were doing at the time. NWN has to be one of my biggest disappointments ever.

 

[Data West]

So I'm not a bad man for waiting to buy on release? :3

Nah, you just hate real RPGs

 

[EviLore]

So I'm not a bad man for waiting to buy on release? :3

Only if you prepurchased Dragon Age 2.

 

[Data West]

Only real bummer about all these CRPGs is that only Wasteland 2 and Shadowrun Returns are doing the Sci-fi thing. Like, I've got Baldur's Gate I & II, I've got Dragon Age: Origins, I've got Icewind Dale.

I've got plenty of 'classic' or classic inspired RPGs set with elves and magic and all that. I'd rather have more future stuff or even a modern setting using RPG tropes from that. I know Torment's kind of weird in its own right, but it still does borrow a lot of fantasy elements, or looks to at least.

 

[AstroZombie]

Isn't Numenera Sci-Fi(ish)?

 

[The Technomancer]

Isn't Numenera Sci-Fi(ish)?

Its more that Numenera seems like really...bizarre fantasy. I was kind of hoping Project Eternity would be a bit more bizarre and get away from tropes, but now that we're getting this as well I think I'm more enthusiastic about the slightly more standard fanasy setting in Eternity as well

 

[cartman414]

To be fair, it may have been next to impossible to carry data from a 2e D&D game into a 3e one.

 

[trab pu kcip]

Isn't Numenera Sci-Fi(ish)?

yeah it's a mixture I'd say. the concept art for ToN looks very classic fantasy-like so far but there will be some advanced technology too, since it's set in the future. just look at some numenera art. I expect ToN to reflect that since they share the same setting. so it won't be generic elves & dwarves stuff

 

[PFD]

So I'm not a bad man for waiting to buy on release? :3

I didn't pledge either. Already have PE and PA to look forward to, and I can just buy this when it comes out 2 years later. Not like they're hurting for cash or anything.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

yeah it's a mixture I'd say. the concept art for ToN looks very classic fantasy-like so far but there will be some advanced technology too, since it's set in the future. just look at some numenera art. I expect ToN to reflect that since they share the same setting. so it won't be generic elves & dwarves stuff

That artwork is amazing.
Yeah, it's really super sci-fi to the degree where you start getting fantasy again.

Like how Star Wars is technically science-fiction, but is really a quasi-fantasy at parts (thanks to the jedi stuff).

 

[Sentenza]

I'm really curious how the sales of KS-funded million dollar AAA games will go. I assume most people who already want the game donated when it became fully funded and just wanted to help w/ the extras and stretch content.

I'm going to assume that most of the potential customers for these games, on the other hand, are barely aware of what Kickstarter is (IF aware at all) or are just going to wait and see how they turn out at the end.

Supporters/backers willing to pay in advance to fund these projects are probably just a small niche even among core lovers of these genres.

 

[Shake Appeal]

I was kind of hoping Project Eternity would be a bit more bizarre and get away from tropes, but now that we're getting this as well I think I'm more enthusiastic about the slightly more standard fanasy setting in Eternity as well

Same here.

 

[NIN90]

Holy crap! Is this the highest grossing gaming kickstarter yet?