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[JonathanEx]

Ah, OK. I suppose that has been a media focus recently.

My favourite, that only two days ago, he submitted a statement to the Home Affairs Committee about anti-semitism and mentioned Hitler 11 times.

Man has a problem mentioning Hitler too much.

 

[JonathanEx]

Jeremy Corbyn will shortly deliver a speech on the findings of Labour's anti-semitism report

LATEST: 'An occasional toxic atmosphere is in danger of shutting down free speech within (Labour Party)', reports S Chakrabarti in inquiry

Shami Chakrabarti Inquiry: Labour members should resist the use of Hitler, Nazi and Holocaust metaphors.

https://twitter.com/julian5news/status/748447310330363904
https://twitter.com/julian5news/status/748452517906890752

 

[liquidtmd]

Shami Chakrabarti Inquiry: Labour members should resist the use of Hitler, Nazi and Holocaust metaphors.

Maybe Corbyn should have been a bit more vocal about this, you know, last week

 

[JonathanEx]

Well I was going to say toxic atmosphere? It's not like there's supporters or members of pressure groups, trying to make say, momentum, in the party, who might be helping in causing that.

 

[Camp Freddie]

Has Jarvis gotten cold feet again? Haven't heard anything past that initial rumour he was canvassing.

I'm guessing so. I doubt his family life has changed much since the last election, so he probably doesn't want to essentially abandon his family to fight for leadership of what will now be an even more bitter and divided opposition.
Same goes for Chukka I expect.

To be honest, I suspect that no-one wants to be leader at the moment - of either party.
Labour will lose a lot of votes, regardless of whether they head left or right.
The Tories will lose a lot of votes, regardless of what type of EU deal they go for.
The only winners will be UKIP, the Greens (especially if Corbyn leaves) and maybe the LibDems, who will pick up voters that are dissatisfied with whatever direction the main parties take.

IMO, every election victory in my lifetime has been the result of a leader that turned towards the centre. Every leader that tried to win by motivating a large proportion of their 'core' has been a complete failure.
Corbyn will be an absolute disaster in a general election.

 

[JonathanEx]

Corbyn at the launch of the report: "Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel than our Muslim friends are for the self-styled Islamic State"

So naturally someone's now complained to the party's compliance unit for seemingly comparing Israel and ISIS. Corbyn has denied that he was comparing, soooo.

 

[benjipwns]

That Seumas Milne guy is great: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seumas_Milne

Milne said that Corbyn's initial front bench constituted a "stabilisation shadow cabinet" and was of the opinion that current Labour MPs were "not only far to the right of most Labour party members, but actually it's to the right of public opinion."

Milne has attacked what he calls "the creeping historical revisionism that tries to equate Nazism and communism",[53] which he argues has tended to "relativise the unique crimes of Nazism, bury those of colonialism and feed the idea that any attempt at radical social change will always lead to suffering, killing and failure"

Milne argued in 2006:

“ For all its brutalities and failures, communism in the Soviet Union, eastern Europe and elsewhere delivered rapid industrialisation, mass education, job security and huge advances in social and gender equality. It encompassed genuine idealism and commitment... Its existence helped to drive up welfare standards in the west, boosted the anticolonial movement and provided a powerful counterweight to western global domination.[49] ”
In the same 2006 article Milne criticised the Council of Europe and others for adopting "as fact the wildest estimates of those 'killed by communist regimes'"

Milne has also argued that Hugo Chávez's presidency was the target of "unfounded accusations of dictatorship" in the western media.

n the 2014 annexation of Crimea, Milne wrote that "western aggression and lawless killing is on another scale entirely from anything Russia appears to have contemplated, let alone carried out – removing any credible basis for the US and its allies to rail against Russian transgressions",[91] and has described the annexation as "clearly defensive",[92] asserting that "the crisis in Ukraine is a product of the disastrous Versailles-style break-up of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s".

At least we now know how EV is spending his time.

Spoiler

come back EV, we miss you

 

[paradox121]

So they were just saying on BBC News that supposedly Diane Abbott has been physically blocking the door to stop MP's getting in and talking to Corbyn.

I think I'm now officially at the stage of just assuming this is some grand, live performance of The Thick of It that no-one's been told about.

 

[ElNarez]

That Seumas Milne guy is great: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seumas_Milne

At least we now know how EV is spending his time.

Spoiler

come back EV, we miss you

well he's right

 

[Dr Zhivago]

Well, at least he's still more popular than Gordon Brown:

 

[Beefy]

Angela Eagle's local Labour Party have called for her to resign as an MP because they support Corbyn. It gets better and better.

 

[Par Score]

Eagle has postponed her expected announcement of formally challenging Corbyn, and may pull out entirely.

The PLP is a shambles.

 

[Mr. Sam]

Eagle has postponed her expected announcement of formally challenging Corbyn, and may pull out entirely.

The PLP is a shambles.

One imagines Watson's going to have to do it, unless Jarvis answers the call.

 

[Hazzuh]

The attacks on Corbyn for his statement comparing Israel and ISIS are slight unfair IMO. He spoke very, very poorly but I wouldn't say much more than that. However, him standing by as Momentum members attack a Jewish Labour MP for being part of a "right-wing media conspiracy" to undermine him at an event on antisemitism is TRULY shameful. Momentum are a 21st century Militant, they need to be removed from the Labour party.

 

[JonathanEx]

Ruth Smeeth, the MP *edit: from this morning's incident at the antisemitism event* has released a statement and formally complained:

"This morning, at the launch of the Chakrabarti Inquiry into antisemitism, I was verbally attacked by a Momentum activist and Jeremy Corbyn supporter who used traditional antisemitic slurs to attack me for being part of a 'media conspiracy'. It is beyond belief that someone could come to the launch of a report on antisemitism in the Labour Party and espouse such vile conspiracy theories about Jewish people, which were ironically highlighted as such in Ms Chakrabarti's report, while the leader of my own party stood by and did absolutely nothing."

"People like this have no place in our party or our movement and must be opposed. Until today I had made no public comment about Jeremy’s ability to lead our party, but the fact that he failed to intervene is final proof for me that he is unfit to lead, and that a Labour Party under his stewardship cannot be a safe space for British Jews. I have written to the General Secretary of the Labour Party and the Chair of the Parliamentary Labour Party to formally complain about this morning’s events."

"No-one from the Leader’s office has contacted me since the event, which is itself a catastrophic failure of leadership. I call on Jeremy Corbyn to resign immediately and make way for someone with the backbone to confront racism and antisemitism in our party and in the country."

http://www.ruthsmeeth.org.uk/statement_on_the_launch_of_the_chakrabarti_report

 

[Quixzlizx]

I think you just won the "pretentious twat" post of the day.

That's not the title of a book, not even an article.

It's a concept. The estrangement a worker has regarding the product of his work not being his (and having no control over the process of production). My wording might suck, english is not my native language and i don't feel like looking up a precise philosophical notion.

"thoroughly", lol.

As for what you know of the SWP, your understanding of politics is akin to tabloids. "one is seen with another", etc.

I find it fascinating that people care so much about the leadership, and so little about the membership. And when I say people, I guess I mean American liberals who post on neogaf.

The guy you were responding to was British.

And I wonder whether you had an opinion on Bernie Sanders :lol

 

[travisbickle]

The Labour Party is not a Marxist party. It is a social democratic party. Marxism will never, ever, ever return a government in Britain.

And yes I have read Marx, thoroughly. I like Alienation, I'll give him that.

Labour's a workers party, it's a broad church.

And it's not about Marxism returning to the government, it's the fact we don't live in a communist state so people who run bookstores or read outside of current political rhetoric aren't seen as being radicals or enemies of the state.

 

[BadHand]

Eagle has postponed her expected announcement of formally challenging Corbyn, and may pull out entirely.

The PLP is a shambles.

Corbyn is a "weak" candidate in an "untenable" role, yet nobody has got the guts to challenge him.

They want him to resign so she can just be shoe-horned in. #democracy

 

[Hasney]

So they were just saying on BBC News that supposedly Diane Abbott has been physically blocking the door to stop MP's getting in and talking to Corbyn.

I think I'm now officially at the stage of just assuming this is some grand, live performance of The Thick of It that no-one's been told about.

I'm just going to assume Corbyn spilt water on his trousers and he's had to hang them up.

 

[Hazzuh]

Ruth Smeeth, the MP who was shouted at by a Momentum activist at the anti-semitism report event this morning, has released a statement and formally complained:


http://www.ruthsmeeth.org.uk/statement_on_the_launch_of_the_chakrabarti_report

Corbyn's labour:

 

[Mindwipe]

Eagle has postponed her expected announcement of formally challenging Corbyn, and may pull out entirely.

The PLP is a shambles.

This is the thing. If they had a remotely credible plan then the shitstiring would make sense. Even an uncredible plan would have made some sense.

But they literally have no plan at all. And they know it. They're trying to do the Brexit clusterfuck, but on themselves.

The truth is that even if you don't believe in Corbyn, quite a significant amount of the PLP needs to go, because an awful lot of them are crap.

 

[Par Score]

Ruth Smeeth, the MP who was shouted at by a Momentum activist at the anti-semitism report event this morning, has released a statement and formally complained:

http://www.ruthsmeeth.org.uk/statement_on_the_launch_of_the_chakrabarti_report

She was not shouted at, and the speaker has said he is not affiliated with Momentum.

He accused her of working with the Telegraph on the timing and manner of her resignation, in order to maximise it's negative impact.

The speaker, Marc Wadsworth, has a history of fighting against racism and discrimination, and has denied knowing Ruth Smeeth was Jewish before making the remarks criticising her.

 

[Hasney]

She was not shouted at, and the speaker has said he is not affiliated with Momentum.

He accused her of working with the Telegraph on the timing and manner of her resignation, in order to maximise it's negative impact.

The speaker, Marc Wadsworth, has a history of fighting against racism and discrimination, and has denied knowing Ruth Smeeth was Jewish before making the remarks criticising her.

I don't even know what to believe now. I mean, if she's lying about that, then she can fuck off. Wow.

 

[JonathanEx]

She was not shouted at, and the speaker has said he is not affiliated with Momentum.

Thanks for correcting - that's as I saw on Twitter. But good to get that cleared up.

 

[Par Score]

Everything is a bit... tumultuous at the minute.

Easy for things to kick off and get heated based on misconceptions and what not, probably not the best time for this report to be finished and released.

Chilcot should be fun, aye?

 

[Condom]

LOL PLP embarrassing themselves, where is their candidate

 

[travisbickle]

She was not shouted at, and the speaker has said he is not affiliated with Momentum.

He accused her of working with the Telegraph on the timing and manner of her resignation, in order to maximise it's negative impact.

The speaker, Marc Wadsworth, has a history of fighting against racism and discrimination, and has denied knowing Ruth Smeeth was Jewish before making the remarks criticising her.

He shouldn't have said her name in that setting, just because it was a very flaky accusation. It actually took me re-reading multiple statements to work out why it was anti-semitic, I first thought it was because The Daily Telegraph supported the nazis or something!?

But I am beginning to understand why there have been so many accusations of anti-semitism if accusations of working with newspapers is anti-semitic. It's going to be difficult when one side has serious complaints with press influence on the parties popularity.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Can't even spell his own name.

 

[Khoryos]

Can't even spell his own name.

That's interesting - his name's spelt right on the email I got, but it does still have the "become" typo.

 

[BadHand]

I don't even know what to believe now. I mean, if she's lying about that, then she can fuck off. Wow.

Are you surprised? Everything is an opportunity to attack Corbyn at this point.

 

[Hazzuh]

That's interesting - his name's spelt right on the email I got, but it does still have the "become" typo.

Same on my email. Different version for the press?

 

[Pandy]

She was not shouted at, and the speaker has said he is not affiliated with Momentum.

He accused her of working with the Telegraph on the timing and manner of her resignation, in order to maximise it's negative impact.

The speaker, Marc Wadsworth, has a history of fighting against racism and discrimination, and has denied knowing Ruth Smeeth was Jewish before making the remarks criticising her.

As soon as I saw the report of Smeeth's complaint on the BBC it struck me that it was odd it hadn't been mentioned in the coverage of the report conference. Now I know why, it's another storm in the PLP teacup.

 

[BadHand]

Has this been posted?

https://twitter.com/DougieMacM/status/748542937139679232

 

[RedShift]

Has this been posted?

https://twitter.com/DougieMacM/status/748542937139679232

That date is after Benn was fired isn't it?

 

[BadHand]

That date is after Benn was fired isn't it?

I think it was the same day, but before Angela's tearful resignation. It isn't clear but I think it means 2 days before that (the day Angela resigned).

EDIT: from what I understand from twitter:

Angela4Leader.org Registered a few hours before Benn's no confidence statement (and sacking) to Corbyn.

Registered by PR firm, the owner was advisor to Blair when he was in office.

 

[BadHand]

edit: double post.

 

[Piecake]

I don't want to sound rude here but your post reads like you just took a Psychology 101 course. I know what cognitive biases are.

The papers you linked do not say that supply biases are almost wiped out by competition. They say that the incentives for being biased are lowered if you assume the other features of the theoretical model that they study. There can be 101 reasons why a theoretical model doesn't map with reality.

Of course you are trying to be rude. That is a classic dismissive argument.

Yes, the incentives for being biased are lowered because the people will lose trust in the news source if they feel that it is biased. The individual determines if a source is biased based on their own ideals and values and their own personal experiences, and if the individual determines that something is biased, then he/she will consume it less. You don't determine what is biased. The individual consumer does.

That is what the article is saying about supply-side bias. If the people of Britain consume right wing media the most then they obviously don't think it is biased. Saying that these people were tricked by the evil media and political culture is just a way to make you feel better when the media lines up with these peoples values and ideals.

As for the 101 reasons why this doesnt map with reality, then lets see them backed up with a credible source.

And no, The Establishment is not 'conspiracy theory'. You might disagree with the content, but that doesn't make it 'conspiracy theory'. It's a history of how the political status-quo in the UK became so dominated by the right-wing.

In any case, until anybody in this thread posts something resembling a plausible post-Corbyn plan I'm done posting in it. I've asked like four times what people think it would look like and none of you have a clue. If you want to see why the Labour party can't get elected, you might want to start there.

I don't want to be rude here, but if you read a book written by a person who clearly has an agenda and knew the answer to his question before he began researching and writing his book, then he is going to find evidence for that argument no matter what. That is like basic argument 101. Hint - a writer who does this does not produce a credible source.

Oh, and here are some references to actual credible studies about whether the American government governs in the interest of the people and not the 'corrupt establishment'

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/9/11502464/gilens-page-oligarchy-study

They can't get elected with Corbyn, so its unlikely that it will get worse.

 

[Pandy]

lmao

'Over to you Jeremy' says Angela Eagle
Posted at 20:20
Angela Eagle interviewed as she returns home
BBC
Angela Eagle, who had been thought likely to launch a Labour leadership challenge today but is apparently holding off to give Jeremy Corbyn more time, was met with reporters as she returned home this evening.

The former Labour frontbencher told them: "The thing is, Jeremy needs to stand down.

"He's been asked to stand down and, at the moment, we want him to consider his position and do what is right in the interests of the party. So over to you Jeremy."

Asked if she would run if he stands down, she replied: "I will not be answering hypothetical questions. The thing now is that Jeremy needs to stand down."

EDIT: This thread seems to be dying off now, but I'll just leave this here in case people come back to it for reference.
http://evolvepolitics.com/angela-eagles-leadership-website-registered-blairs-pr-man-2-days-ago/
https://whois.icann.org/en/lookup?name=angela4leader.org

 

[Jezbollah]

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/748641839125757952

Sam Coates (‏@SamCoatesTimes)
Times / YouGov Labour members poll

Result 5: 4/10 Labour members say he shd go now. Here is who they pick instead

 

[Coriolanus]

This is the link to the article on that yougov pol

and this bit got me legit shook

In a hypothetical head-to-head matchup between him and Angela Eagle, he currently holds a 10 point lead at 50% to 40%, with 5% saying they would not vote and 7% saying they don’t know. In other head-to-heads Corbyn does better, currently ahead of Tom Watson by 11 points and Dan Jarvis by 17 points.

which obv explains why they floated eagle. prolly had some polling done and realized was the best shot, and even then they were in for a rough fight.
yerp, PLP better brace for the storm (or leave the party). Dude ain't going nowhere if he doesn't want to.

also on their sample 90% of labour members voted remain. Isn't that a bit odd?

 

[Xun]

Why is anyone who critisises Israel regarded as anti-Semite?

It's fucking infuriating and dangerous.

 

[CyclopsRock]

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/748641839125757952

Sam Coates (‏@SamCoatesTimes)
Times / YouGov Labour members poll

Result 5: 4/10 Labour members say he shd go now. Here is who they pick instead

"None" is romping home to victory.

 

[FortuneFaded]

There's always an appropriate Simpsons video

 

[nOoblet16]

So what happens if he wins again ? Which he most likely will. Another no confidence vote until get steps down?

 

[Toytown Assassin]

So what happens if he wins again ? Which he most likely will. Another no confidence vote until get steps down?

The other MP's either sod off and form a new party which becomes the official opposition or they wait around to get deselected one by one. They want the labour brand and machine though which is why they are pressing so hard for him to step down. They know they wont beat him in a vote.

 

[nOoblet16]

The other MP's either sod off and form a new party which becomes the official opposition or they wait around to get deselected one by one. They want the labour brand and machine though which is why they are pressing so hard for him to step down. They know they wont beat him in a vote.

Yep all those resignation letters filled with crocodile tears...makes sense.

Like look at this, if true..then what a hypocrite. Apologies for the typical FB image.

 

[PJV3]

Yep all those resignation letters filled with crocodile tears...makes sense.

Like look at this, if true..then what a hypocrite. Apologies for the typical FB image.

I'm not happy with how this has gone down but if Corbyn stays after this we will have a right wing Tory government and a further right UKIP opposition.

Corbyn has to go, people are not going to forget and trust the party in a crisis like this.

 

[Maledict]

This is the link to the article on that yougov pol

and this bit got me legit shook

which obv explains why they floated eagle. prolly had some polling done and realized was the best shot, and even then they were in for a rough fight.
yerp, PLP better brace for the storm (or leave the party). Dude ain't going nowhere if he doesn't want to.

also on their sample 90% of labour members voted remain. Isn't that a bit odd?

Because people consistently don't get that labour members != labour voters. That's the heart of the current mess - the labour members want Corbyn, but labour voters won't touch him with a barge pole. It's the issue with giving activists the final say in a leadership election. It's why the democrats have super delegates and the republicans wish they had. Allowing your most fanatical supporters to pick the leader has always been a dumb idea. It just means the party suffers for ages until it gets so sick of defeat it finally moves to the centre ground.

Same happened with the Tories - they were utterly lacking as an opposition for a long time because the base kept lumbering them with anti-European nutbags rather than electable people. Hague and then IDS were not the choice of MPs and suffered by benign on the extreme wing of the party.

It's one area where democracy actually sucks. The job of the leader is to lead the parliamentary party - if you can't do that nothing else matters.

 

[Maledict]

Yep all those resignation letters filled with crocodile tears...makes sense.

Like look at this, if true..then what a hypocrite. Apologies for the typical FB image.

Huh?

She said something nice about him whilst the campaign was on but then after said something else?

WTf do you expect? In the middle of the referendum campaign to start slagging him off in public?

Seriously, this is ridiculous. It feels like Corbyn support is turning into a cult. Are you only allowed to critisce Jeremy if you have always said bad things about him?

 

[cabot]

I don't know, Maledict. It's not like something major happened between those two quotes that could force her to reconsider her stance or anything.

The second photo is a nice touch, she's totally evil with that face.