Jezbollah
Member
Also remember the boundary changes.
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UK Labour Leadership Crisis: Corbyn retained as leader by strong margin
- Thread starter Hazzuh
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Also remember the boundary changes.
Jezbollah
Member
This Labour Party membership vetting continues to be interesting.
Especially if they are Foo Fighters fans
http://www.nme.com/news/foo-fighters/95988
Especially if they are Foo Fighters fans
http://www.nme.com/news/foo-fighters/95988
travisbickle
Member
I feel that what appears to be individuals being barred from voting because of posts they made on social networks is probably the most poetic conclusion to the rise in popularity of Corbyn over the last year. (if they bar enough that Corbyn doesn't win!)
WhateverItTakes
Banned
Even if it's Smith supporters trying to push Corbyn voters out as opposed to general ridiculous bureaucracy inherent in British politics, can't they see taking out one vote is both morally wrong, and at the same time, completely counter productive? Smith's best chance is avoiding Corbyn looking sympathetic, and that shit does the exact opposite.
Anyway, I wanted to look at some numbers ( you guys have probably wolved these down already)
It, uh, isn't looking good. Labour at 29% compared to the Conservatives 40% (UKIP gets 13% ewwwwwwwwww), while 50% agree May is the best option for PM, vs 19% for Cor-bae and 31% for don't know.
By those stats, ignoring constituencies and the nuances of voting, even a libral alliance couldn't do anything. I can't see smith clawing back that 10% and I certainly can't see Corbyn managing it. Are we gonna get conservatism in power for the next 10 years while Labour tries to drag it's membership kicking and screaming to the centre and a chance of winning?
Barring a few people based on social media posts won't do nearly as much damage as barring all the people who signed up to vote against Corbyn after the referendum (which is why I drily laughed at Corbyn's claims the election might be 'unfair')
I'm reasonably willing to bet that's not the full story with regards the NEC. At least I hope not.
If the last two months have taught us anything, it's that there is something to be said for the 1922 Committee's approach.
For me, Smith's problem is he's trying to be both anti-Corbyn and continue his legacy. It's a contradictory platform.
I'm reasonably willing to bet that's not the full story with regards the NEC. At least I hope not.
If the last two months have taught us anything, it's that there is something to be said for the 1922 Committee's approach.
For me, Smith's problem is he's trying to be both anti-Corbyn and continue his legacy. It's a contradictory platform.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
The NEC blocking voters was asinine shite that smacked of incompetence. If the Labour Party is going to be in one piece by the end of it, there needs to be absolutely no way for anyone to fall back on "oh, this was rigged/rules were unfair". One of the candidates needs to beat the others, fair and square, mano e mano. If Corbyn now loses to Smith by a margin smaller than the number of voters whose vote was removed by the NEC, shit will go down; which makes Smith's job even harder than it needs to be because he now needs to win comfortably rather than just at all.
McNicol needs to go.
McNicol needs to go.
WhateverItTakes
Banned
Sooooo, who wants to speculate on the name of the new party after the inevitable split?
Is Progress taken? The Progress Party would be alliterative which is always fun. I feel it would piss off the Corbyn voters who label as progressive, which I can't tell if it's a good or bad thing.
Is Progress taken? The Progress Party would be alliterative which is always fun. I feel it would piss off the Corbyn voters who label as progressive, which I can't tell if it's a good or bad thing.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I hate the term progressive. It's almost as bad as neoliberal in terms of not actually meaning anything substantive at all.
Until last year there was the "Peace and Progress" party, if that counts.
I would have thought some of them might be willing to defect to another party rather than starting their own, even if the Lib Dems can't take them all immediately.
WhateverItTakes
Banned
Ideally, just for not splitting the vote. Honestly we'd need to find some way to unite the Corbyn lovers, the more typical Labour voter, and the conservative voters who can be flipped. Its the only reasonable path for a majority right? Maybe that'd be best achieved by a coalition government. I just can't see the next few years being successful for this side of the political spectrum.
Huw_Dawson
Member
I don't think there'd be a formal party for a while until the legal shenanigans are taken care of. It depends how the staff and owners of the Labour Party organisation split. It's possible Corbyn will lose the rights to be called Labour - in which case you'd probably get a name like "The Real Labour Party".
Progressive is too broad a term for what the block would be. Rightfully any new centre-left Labour fragment should be the SDP, but that name is being squatted on by a few old SPD councillors who never joined the LDs after the merger.
Plus my hunch would be two separate left alliances:
Old Lab/Greens as the hard left alliance
LD/SDP-alike as the centre left alliance.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
there's no way Corbyn loses the Labour brand if there is a split after he wins. He controls the NEC now, and quite comfortably (unlike the hairline control prior to the recent elections), which sets the rules, such that any court looking to decide what is to become of Labour and therefore looking at the NEC rules (as the recent court battle set the precedent for) could not possibly decide against him.
Which is yet another reason why McNicol fucked up. Going to court to set the precedent that the NEC can be a complete and total arbitrary dictator of the party has the potential to backfire spectacularly now that control of the NEC has been lost.
Which is yet another reason why McNicol fucked up. Going to court to set the precedent that the NEC can be a complete and total arbitrary dictator of the party has the potential to backfire spectacularly now that control of the NEC has been lost.
The Co-Operative Party.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Which would be ironic because they've been anything but!
Huw_Dawson
Member
FWIW I think The Co-Op Party is constitutionally bound to to the Labour name anyway?
They're legally separate from the Labour party. They do have an agreement to support the Labour party, and can't run candidates against them, but that agreement can be terminated. If the Labour MPs who did want to split all joined the Co-Op party, they could probably form an official opposition pretty quickly.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
Yeah, she wasn't banned because she was a Foo Fighters fan, she was banned for what she said, which she omits.
Here's Corbyn hailing a hate preacher.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJDPV7hEsdc
Jezbollah
Member
Ah fair play. Shitty if she's obfuscated the truth by what she's not said then.
travisbickle
Member
I don't understand? I think she believes she was banned for saying "fuckin'" which she explains. The news reporters blacked out the word "fuckin'" from the pictures in their tweets but she said that's the reason.
Jezbollah
Member
So she was banned for voting in the Labour leadership election because she swore on social media? Or am I being incredibly dim?
travisbickle
Member
I honestly don't know either? It's very strange.
Jezbollah
Member
I'll happily concede if I'm being dim
I do wonder how many Labour party members there will be eligible to vote if they are going to consistently apply this to all forms of social media - especially with the vitriol being thrown around in the last year..
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I don't really see how that's any more advantageous than just registering a new party. Does anyone actually have any affection for the Co-operative Party? I'd wager that most people have no idea it is the UK's 4th largest political party.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
There were other comments referenced in her suspension that she doesn't talk about. We're not banning people for swearing, if we were I'd have been banned a thousand times over.
travisbickle
Member
The letter of suspension is in the news article and just states "sharing inappropriate content on Facebook 5 March". The Mail reporter also has posted images of the Facebook posts from that day. What's missing?
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
The comments that she made and then deleted. It wasn't for the Foo Fighters thing. You'll have to trust me on this, I'm relatively close to the centre of this sh*t storm in general.
travisbickle
Member
You're close to the centre? and you're sharing inflammatory titled Youtube clips of Jeremy Corbyn on discussion forums? You probably would get barred from voting for that.
Meanwhile, Theresa May is squatting firmly in the centre ground with her recently announced race audit of public services.
I can see this appealing to many on the soft left (eg. me). Whilst Corbyn continues to exude an aroma of incompetence, I really can't see how his Labour Party could ever hope to win against her.
I can see this appealing to many on the soft left (eg. me). Whilst Corbyn continues to exude an aroma of incompetence, I really can't see how his Labour Party could ever hope to win against her.
travisbickle
Member
An audit?
I heard she's going to complete an audit on World Peace next, definite vote winner!
Need to identify and bring awareness to the problems before they can be fixed. See for example: Black Lives Matter, who first and foremost are raising awareness.
This is a great first step. And May just needs to point to her action on stop and search to evidence her willingness to act against systemic racism once it has been identified.
Of course the soft left, the ones that like the liberals in america don't care about poverty as long as it's maintained in a socially progressive and LGBT minded, non-racist way.
I'm sorry but it's a trap. And so many people are falling in that soft left trap. Or well, for many it isn't really trap but a way to feel good about themselves while keeping their economically privileged position.
I'm not sure where you are pulling this attack that the soft left don't care about poverty from...
New Labour (which many people would say was to the right of "soft-left") put a huge amount of effort in to reducing poverty in the UK, especially the number of children and pensioners living in poverty.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Yet her immigration stances are far from liberal. Also, talk is cheap. Also, her stance on human rights and the liberties of the citizen still make her an odious human being.
You say this as if British voters want a PM with a liberal stance towards immigration. If anything, this is an ingrained advantage May has. Labour being 'soft' on immigration is a problem the leader will need to find a way to address if they want to be competitive in the GE. Hopefully they can do a better job than Miliband.
It's this ridiculous notion that 'liberals' don't care about poverty or economic imbalance, and that they only care about social injustice. It was flung about quite a lot early on in the democrat primary as well, and ultimately it just comes across as 'you aren't talking enough about white, straight people - talk about ME!'.
The left does like to eat its own, after all.
I'd say a new party with new branding would be best. Then you try to get as many MPs to jump ship as you can.
Those folks run as the new party and then you can either be tactical in election 1 and not run candidates where there's Corbyn-supporting MPs and where Conservatives can win if the vote is split. You hope those people can be part of a coalition that can form a government (and may eventually join the new party).
Or run everywhere and concede that it's going to take a couple elections to unify people behind the new party, even though that may cause conservatives to take some formerly safe Labour seats.
Yeah, poverty is a big part of social injustice.
CyclopsRock
Member
Worth noting that she does say that the audit will look into why white working class males seem to fare so poorly, too. So it's not just about racial diversity.
The far left (especially the male far left) has a tendency sometimes to take "poverty exacerbates issues of social injustice" to mean "solve poverty and you solve social injustice, therefore stop talking about social injustice until we've solved poverty".
If (when?) the New Improved Social Democratic Party did tactical voting in the first general, it would be to avoid stepping on the toes of the Lib Dems, I would have thought. No way in hell are they going to avoid tackling the Corbynite shadow cabinet head on when this is what it's all about.
If (when?) the New Improved Social Democratic Party did tactical voting in the first general, it would be to avoid stepping on the toes of the Lib Dems, I would have thought. No way in hell are they going to avoid tackling the Corbynite shadow cabinet head on when this is what it's all about.
That party should adopt the best party name in history, the Bull Moose Party
anonymous_abc
Member
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
We don't live in stasiland just yet. Dear Leader's past actions and affiliations are not off the table. There's a reason people aren't getting suspended for calling Lansman a trot and Milne a stalinist. It's true.
m.i.s.
Banned
Oh man!!!
This would be political dynamite!
Would really take the fight to those Blairite Bast@rds!
George Galloway’s Respect Party deregisters
Sadly, don't think it'll happen.
This would be political dynamite!
Would really take the fight to those Blairite Bast@rds!
George Galloway’s Respect Party deregisters
Sadly, don't think it'll happen.
banned source.
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