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[Jezbollah]

So it looks like Team Corbyn really wants people to come together nicely.

And by that I mean Seums Milne is a meddling arse, and edited Clive Lewis' defence speech to change their attitude to Trident renewal but without really planning in advance, just doing it directly onto the autocue.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...ive-lewis-trident-speech-changed-seumas-milne

Wow. Just, wow.

 

[Pie and Beans]

So it looks like Team Corbyn really wants people to come together nicely.

And by that I mean Seums Milne is a meddling arse, and edited Clive Lewis' defence speech to change their attitude to Trident renewal but without really planning in advance, just doing it directly onto the autocue.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...ive-lewis-trident-speech-changed-seumas-milne

Here we go all over again!

 

[Condom]

Was there a PREFERRED LANGUAGE pamphlet handed out to cult members this week or was it just word of the day on dictionary.com?

I said self declared. And if you liberals don't like being called that then stop talking politics altogether or invent some new name for the same thing.

 

[Maledict]

I said self declared. And if you liberals don't like being called that then stop talking politics altogether or invent some new name for the same thing.

'I'm going to use this made up term to insult anyone I don't like in the party, and then when they complain will tell them to get out of politics all together'.

Neoliberal, like 'blairite', means nothing other than a put-down applied to anyone who isn't a Corbyn follower apparently.

 

[Jackpot]

Because liberals are rightwingers

Liberals am crying.

Labour was going nowhere, at least now it's going somewhere.

the illusion the media has created that liberals are center-left is just that

Like all liberals they create short-term gains

Just because Blairites and liberals are in denial

And if you liberals don't like being called that .

When did "liberal" become a bad thing? Liberal, liberate, more free, less restrictive, more progressive. Isn't that like the opposite of Tory?

 

[Garjon]

So it looks like Team Corbyn really wants people to come together nicely.

And by that I mean Seums Milne is a meddling arse, and edited Clive Lewis' defence speech to change their attitude to Trident renewal but without really planning in advance, just doing it directly onto the autocue.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...ive-lewis-trident-speech-changed-seumas-milne

I genuinely do not know how Corbyn has not sacked Milne yet or what was used to blackmail him into hiring him in the first place but he has got to go. I don't know how anyone could even stay in the same room as a man who defends someone who attempted to starve half of Ukraine to death and it is a real red flag for me that Corbyn seemingly tolerates him. And that's before you even get to Milne's questionable views on well, just about everything really.

 

[Condom]

When did "liberal" become a bad thing? Liberal, liberate, more free, less restrictive, more progressive. Isn't that like the opposite of Tory?

American? Socialists use terms differently compared to liberals.

'I'm going to use this made up term to insult anyone I don't like in the party, and then when they complain will tell them to get out of politics all together'.

Neoliberal, like 'blairite', means nothing other than a put-down applied to anyone who isn't a Corbyn follower apparently.

Liberals aren't liberals now? Didn't people want to join the lib dems? How much more liberal do you want to get?

 

[Riddick]

When did "liberal" become a bad thing? Liberal, liberate, more free, less restrictive, more progressive. Isn't that like the opposite of Tory?

Since forever. Liberals are rightwingers and definitely not the opposite of conservatives. My experience with liberals is that they use identity politics to distract from their terrible record in economic policy which is definitely rightwing. They're faux-left, a lie created and preserved by systemic media.

Since the beginning of the new century they also started being co-opted by corporatocracy (lets use that word because liberals react badly to the correct term, neoliberalism) and they have consistently been supporting corrupt scum beholden to corporate and banking interests.

 

[Coriolanus]

you getting liberal and libertarian mixed up?

 

[Bony Manifesto]

American? Socialists use terms differently compared to liberals.


Liberals aren't liberals now? Didn't people want to join the lib dems? How much more liberal do you want to get?

Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you genuinely think liberalism and neoliberalism are interchangeable terms?

 

[Riddick]

you getting liberal and libertarian mixed up?

Definitely not. Rightwing libertarians are far, far worse and don't pretend to be left.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I know Cyclops is in it for the "posh totty", but there must be cheaper alternatives...

I actually never ended up joining, but believe me, for the type of posh totty I'm referring to, there's no cheaper way. Lord knows I've tried. I might join Bright Blue for it's presumed combination of posh girls and loose morals, but we'll see.

In other news, here's a photo of Corbyn holding up a piece of cardboard that appears to be from some sort of pressure group designed to get a shadow minister for mental health back into the shadow cabinet...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtRmUXeWgAAwbbX.jpg:large

lol

 

[Pie and Beans]

Ah I get it now. They're all,

 

[Peter Ian Staker]

you getting liberal and libertarian mixed up?

That has always been confusing for me.
In my language there isn't a word for libertarian and the word for liberal(φιλελεύθερο&#962 has been mostly used by right wingers for more than half a century so it became a forbidden for the left.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

Fucking hell

That Politics Home article was written by Kevin Schofield. AKA ex-Sun political correspondent. Also the site is owned by him. Seriously? You think that's going to give a reliable account?

'I'm going to use this made up term to insult anyone I don't like in the party, and then when they complain will tell them to get out of politics all together'.

Neoliberal, like 'blairite', means nothing other than a put-down applied to anyone who isn't a Corbyn follower apparently.

neo-liberal
adjective
adjective: neoliberal
1.
relating to or denoting a modified form of liberalism tending to favour free-market capitalism.
noun
noun: neoliberal
1.
a person with neo-liberal views.

 

[Coriolanus]

I actually never ended up joining, but believe me, for the type of posh totty I'm referring to, there's no cheaper way. Lord knows I've tried. I might join Bright Blue for it's presumed combination of posh girls and loose morals, but we'll see.

After having a look at their executive team, board of directors and associate fellows, i'm kinda wondering why they didn't name their think tank Bright White. Would've been more accurate.

 

[Jezbollah]

Fucking hell

That Politics Home article was written by Kevin Schofield. AKA ex-Sun political correspondent. Also the site is owned by him. Seriously? You think that's going to give a reliable account?

How about The Guardian?

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ays-shadow-defence-secretary-clive-lewis-nato

 

[Huw_Dawson]

When did "liberal" become a bad thing? Liberal, liberate, more free, less restrictive, more progressive. Isn't that like the opposite of Tory?

It's because he and his lot are terrified of us Liberals crushing them into third place in Whitny and nicking loads of their council seats next year. So naturally we're now the enemy - socialism or nothing! The free market treads down the working class!

 

[Jackpot]

Since forever. Liberals are rightwingers

No...... the opposite is true. Especially cemented in British politics due to the Liberal party and Liberal Democrats. I mean they merged with the SDP ffs.

 

[CyclopsRock]

After having a look at their executive team, board of directors and associate fellows, i'm kinda wondering why they didn't name their think tank Bright White. Would've been more accurate.

Well they are affiliated with the Tory party...

 

[daviyoung]

The Liberal Democrats are centrist.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

How about The Guardian?

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ays-shadow-defence-secretary-clive-lewis-nato

A source close to Corbyn said all speeches delivered to conference were agreed by the leader’s office, and did involve some alterations in both directions. But they categorically denied a last-minute change was made on the autocue of which Lewis was unaware.

Also, changing from saying he won't seek to change current policy to saying that he's clear that Labour has a policy for Trident renewal is hardly a big fucking change.

And pro-tip: a lot of claims from senior Labour sources are total bullshit. But then everyone in this thread still thinks of George Eaton's Twitter as a reliable source so...yeah.

 

[JonathanEx]

Also, changing from saying he won't seek to change current policy to saying that he's clear that Labour has a policy for Trident renewal is hardly a big fucking change.

And pro-tip: a lot of claims from senior Labour sources are total bullshit. But then everyone in this thread still thinks of George Eaton's Twitter as a reliable source so...yeah.

Here's a question for you - I'm interested to know what sources/reporters you tend to follow, who's insightful/the go to for you right now?

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

Here's a question for you - I'm interested to know what sources/reporters you tend to follow, who's insightful/the go to for you right now?

Abi Wilkinson, Dawn Foster, Aaron Bastani & Novara Media, Liam Young are all good

 

[Xun]

https://www.facebook.com/JonathanPieReporter/videos/998979936891566/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

I can't say I disagree to be honest.

 

[Hazzuh]

No...... the opposite is true. Especially cemented in British politics due to the Liberal party and Liberal Democrats. I mean they merged with the SDP ffs.

Also the Attlee government's two main intellectual inspirations were Liberals (Keynes and Beveridge).

 

[CyclopsRock]

https://www.facebook.com/JonathanPieReporter/videos/998979936891566/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

I can't say I disagree to be honest.

The answer to his question is "the nose diving polls", no? Winning a primary is different to winning a general. They aren't the same electorate.

 

[Empty]

https://www.facebook.com/JonathanPieReporter/videos/998979936891566/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

I can't say I disagree to be honest.

corbyn's average approval rating for his first year has been -18, only micheal foot has averaged lower as an opposition leader in recent history.

we are also polling consistently behind the tories. if you take the period between the march 2016 budget and corbyn and the eu vote (aka before the leadership challenge), the tory lead was on average three points.

ed miliband spent the last parliament three-four points up the tories, it wasn't anywhere near enough.

this is in the context of boundary reforms that mean to win a majority of 1, labour has to win tory seats with 10,000 majorities largely in the south.

 

[Pie and Beans]

McDonnell all over the national news tonight yelling the word 'socialism'. Fucking embarrassing, grandads.

 

[f0rk]

McDonnell all over the national news tonight yelling the word 'socialism'. Fucking embarrassing, grandads.

He wasn't saying anything on Newsnight. He was talking as if they only just realised they might need to consider tax policy and hadn't given it any thought for the last year. Couldn't even spin it into attacks on the government.

 

[travisbickle]

McDonnell all over the national news tonight yelling the word 'socialism'. Fucking embarrassing, grandads.

I don't know what a 21st century Labour movement looks like without a push for state intervention in spending?

Britain's a shithole because of lack of spending, London's alright but outside it is shit. Britain needs reinvestment that really only the state can provide because private investors just want to build ego-stroking world-tallest glass apartment blocks.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

this is in the context of boundary reforms that mean to win a majority of 1, labour has to win tory seats with 10,000 majorities largely in the south.

You assume that Labour wants to win power. It doesn't.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

You assume that Labour wants to win power. It doesn't.

Lol

How're them Lib Dems doing pal?

 

[CyclopsRock]

McDonnell all over the national news tonight yelling the word 'socialism'. Fucking embarrassing, grandads.

His answer to Evan Davis on their position on Trident - despite Clive Lewis's speech that very day making their support clear - was funny too. He was all like "Yeah, maybe, it'll be a free vote." Davis asked, then, if he was voting for Labour would he be voting to keep, get rid or "Don't know" and his answer was "all will be revealed in the manifesto". Righto then.

 

[Kuros]

Ah momentum, great bunch of lads.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...ntisemitism-event_uk_57eb736de4b0e315f281c764

 

[Jezbollah]

Watching the Corbyn conference speech. The ratio seems right - two thirds clapping and cheering, one third stoic and silent..

 

[Quixzlizx]

Ah momentum, great bunch of lads.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...ntisemitism-event_uk_57eb736de4b0e315f281c764

What the fuck? Is this considered run-of-the-mill "anti-Zionism" by the European left?

 

[Kuros]

What the fuck? Is this considered run-of-the-mill "anti-Zionism" by the European left?

It seems to be pretty rife amongst a certain section of the hard left.

I await to see if she is removed from Momentum and the Party. I won't hold my breath.

 

[CyclopsRock]

She put out a "sorry-not-sorry" memo that I can't find now to link to, but she didn't address the most damning comment, namely that she hasn't found a definition of anti-semitism that she can "work with". She did, however, say that she thought it was a safe space and that releasing the video was "unethical", thus reinforcing all the possible stereotypes there are about safe spaces.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Momentum's being all anti-semitic again. Woops!!

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/37526320?client=ms-android-google

 

[Kurtofan]

Momentum's being all anti-semitic again. Woops!!

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/37526320?client=ms-android-google

Asked if she would describe herself as an anti-Zionist and not an anti-Semite, she said: "Yes. I certainly wouldn't call myself an anti-Semite as I am Jewish and my partner is Jewish."

"I came here... with an open mind and I was seeking information and I still haven't heard a definition of anti-Semitism that I can work with". She also questioned why Holocaust Memorial Day was not more wide ranging.

Truly the new Hitler

 

[travisbickle]

Cyclops Rock, that's the same person you mentioned in your own preceding comment.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Cyclops Rock, that's the same person you mentioned in your own preceding comment.

I know Travis, but the story had developed.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

It seems to be pretty rife amongst a certain section of the hard left.

I await to see if she is removed from Momentum and the Party. I won't hold my breath.

I mean, if you were really good at holding it...

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-to-oust-jackie-walker-over-holocaust-remarks

I'm actually sort of amused at the situation, because I understand from a few friends who actually are in Momentum that there's a lot of anger in the ranks. People at the bottom don't feel like some of the top ranks of the Momentum apparatus speak for them very well, and are making what they want to be campaign of hope and goodwill tainted. They want the Steering Committee to be directly elected by the members and not elected by delegates to the National Committee, who many feel has largely ended up as a rubber-stamp committee. They feel the 'old hard left' is trying to overrule a movement that's really about the 'new left'.

For all the talks of embittered oldies from Militant or the '80s or whatever trying to run the show, it looks like they're about to get defenestrated.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Lol

How're them Lib Dems doing pal?

Up to 80,000 members and doing exceptionally well in local by-election votes - we've gained more local council seats than every other party combined since the June referendum. Plus we're in with a shot of winning the Whitny by-election, if the political betting sites are anything to go by. Considering we were in fourth in 2015, that's pretty good going.

All in all, pretty well!

They feel the 'old hard left' is trying to overrule a movement that's really about the 'new left'.

That happened quite a few months ago. Derek Hatton was allowed in to the Labour conference - in Liverpool, for Christ's sake - on a press badge approved by Corbyn's office.

 

[travisbickle]

I know Travis, but the story had developed.

"all anti-semitic again" does imply they were being all anti-semitic again after your own comment above. When the story is the person who was "all anti-semitic" the first time has been suspended.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Only the Liberal Democrats could get excited about council by-elections.

EDIT: Also, "in with a shot" at Whitney? 12-1 is not "in with a shot". Derived odds are 90% Con, 7% Lib Dem, 1% Lab/Green/UKIP each...

 

[D4Danger]

Truly the new Hitler

Talk about burying the lead

 

[CyclopsRock]

"all anti-semitic again" does imply they were being all anti-semitic again after your own comment above. When the story is the person who was "all anti-semitic" the first time has been suspended.

Sure, I was being a bit rhetorical. But it actually is fairly significant that, yet again, the "hard left" gets accused of anti Semitism and now Momentum has actually suspended her. Why's it always the Jews?

 

[Piecake]

Sure, I was being a bit rhetorical. But it actually is fairly significant that, yet again, the "hard left" gets accused of anti Semitism and now Momentum has actually suspended her. Why's it always the Jews?

Because they and Israel are a part of the American/Western neoliberal, corportist, imperialist conspiracy.

And no, I don't actually believe this.