Support NeoGAF

[Deleted member 231381]

We need PR so we can have an amicable divorce, I'm more to the Corbyn side but there's no point getting 15% in an election and no seats, on the other hand the PLP pretending the left doesn't exist is pretty shitty.

Corbyn can't run anything that isn't about him, so sadly he has to go.

It's almost at the point I'm wondering whether Smith should just go straight to Corbyn and say "you can have the Labour Party forever more if you let us have one more leader and try for PR".

 

[phisheep]

Woah, woah, hold on a minute now, because I've lost track all that's happened over the last few days. Let me get this straight, If foster wins this case, would this mean that, legally, it would be possible for Corbyn to not stand for the leadership contest due to a lack of numbers, endorsement wise?

Yes. that's exactly what it means. That Corbyn would be required to get past the nominee threshold to get on the ballot.

I don't think this challenge has any real chance of succeeding. But it's not an area of law that I know much about, so it'll be interesting to see how it pans out.

 

[Hazzuh]

Hey, do you wanna buy this bridge?

Why do you think that is a lie? Bizarre.

 

[Coriolanus]

On the jarvis thing, the whole story probably rests somewhere between those two points. It is perfectly possible that he might've been swayed into running if polling was positive, but with it being what it is, why put his family through that only to get trounced? Given that we can't know for sure, no real reason to fret over it.
-
What is annoying me on the whole corbyn kerfuffle is that the man is relatively ancient (same age as me mum, in fact) and seems not to have any sucessor at all. Had he someone in his 40's with little bagagge (and a truckload more talent for a whole lotta stuff), this problem might be easier to solve.

He does have Seumas, tho! (who i just learned is 57. god damn did that man age well)

 

[phisheep]

I'd rather have a Labour party that wasn't a pale imitation of the Tory party...

I think that is defeatist talk, to the extent it suggests - and even encourages - Labour to pitch their tent further and further to the Left. Better to focus on the extent to which the modern Tory party has become (and this is no bad thing) a pale imitation of Labour. NHS, workers rights, regulation of business practices, anti cartel, universal education are all things Labour pushed and got and are now part of the national fabric. Ditto the Open University and Human Rights and doubtless a few other things.

Labour has had a lot of success in its history and it is a Good Thing that much of it is now sufficiently stable that the old battles do not need to be refought.

If that means that the Labour position is now closer to the Tories then so be it. Keep moving left though, and more tanks will be placed on the lawn.

As far as I'm concerned, the PLP still needs to actually explain what the Labour government the country desperately needs will actually look like, because I think absolutely nobody in the Labour party actually disagrees that we need a Labour government.

Exactly this. What is the Labour party for? As in, what is it for now rather than in the 1980s? And it isn't enough to simply enumerate things that they are against.

At present, though everyone in the Labour party seems clear that the UK needs a Labour government, they seem completely incapable of explaining why.

So politicians and parties need to abandon core principles if they want to maintain power. Yay.

Yay indeed. Principles and policies do not exist in a vacuum, they are food for voters - and if the voters turn down the food you need to offer them something different, or put ketchup on it or something. Or try and actually persuade them that it is good for them (yelling does not work).

Internal polling is most likely the reason jarvis is staying well the fuck away from this.

No. Jarvis has legit family reasons for keeping out of this right now. First wife died a few years back leaving him a single parent of two. Now has new wife and baby as well and the other two kids need their Dad around. Leader of the Labour Party is not a job that's going to give him much family time.

 

[Jackpot]

Bye.



Oh, yeah, those centre leftists who propped up a Tory government for 5 years. You'll fit right in.

Feel the bile and venom.

 

[Par Score]

As a fairly hardcore Corbynista, I'm actually being grudgingly won over by Owen Smith.

He's a snake, but maybe a snake is what we need right now.

Feel the bile and venom.

Tell me the Lib Dems don't deserve it? No time for them, not since 2010. Sold this country down the river "in the national interest".

 

[sasliquid]

Paid my fee (eff you Labour) to vote

Still not sure who I will vote for... I mean I like Corbyn more but Owen Smith doesn't seem that bad and I'm getting tired of this shit

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Corbyn as President is a nice touch. I mean, the Labour Party needs a pretty permanent reminder that Corbyn's ethos is a hugely empowering and inspiring one for many Labour party members; keeping him very clearly visible regardless of loss or defeat is good. Smith's a bit of a chameleon, but I'd take anything right now, the party can't go on like this.

 

[PJV3]

Tell me the Lib Dems don't deserve it? No time for them, not since 2010. Sold this country down the river "in the national interest".

The Libdems got wiped out and the Orange book squad are finished as a unit. Labour will need the Libdems winning back marginals like my area if Labour want to win.

They deserved the drubbing because they made themselves the face of Tory cuts, but it's Time to move on.


I am definitely voting for Smith, Corbyn will not go even if he loses the general and only he and Diane Abbot are left. I have had enough of the movement bullshit.

 

[Mindwipe]

Yikes. Absolute carnage if Foster wins the case.

The constitution is really badly written. I think it's a completely fifty fifty case.

I think the entire party will implode within weeks if it succeeds though. Being seen to play "dirty legal tricks" to push the most popular candidate off the ballot against the will of the mass of the membership is a completely bone headed PR move.

 

[Meadows]

As a Lib Dem member and centerist, Smith seems pretty good.

Competent, history in business, offers real left wing views, relatively charismatic.

He'll do well. I'll be quite happy with our political leaders across the board if he gets elected.

 

[Hazzuh]

Watched an interview with Smith on the BBC earlier, he seemed pretty good. He could actually play pretty well even to the general public, I could imagine my Mum liking him.

My main worry is his "progressive case against freedom of movement" thing just after the referendum. We need a Labour party that will be honest about immigration above all else right now.

 

[PJV3]

Wrong!

Will teach me not to just read a headline.

 

[twobear]

Smith is a total lightweight who changes his views every 20 minutes. I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. But I also want the leadership issue resolved so that when the PLP lead the party to a 2020 GE loss the party actually has to sit down and have a good long think about what it stands for and is reenergised for 2025.

[edit] The press doing its job I see, ensuring they don't ask Owen Smith about his days as a lobbyist trying to introduce point of care payments in the NHS.

 

[kmag]

Court case ends up in Corbyn's favour, thank God .

That's only the case for Corbyn to be included as a separate party (i.e he and the NEC will have separate standing in the case) in the actual case on Tuesday.

 

[PJV3]

That's only the case for Corbyn to be included as a separate party (i.e he and the NEC will have separate standing in the case) in the actual case on Tuesday.

Yeah, I just read a fuller version. Oh well.

 

[Real Hero]

My main worry is his "progressive case against freedom of movement" thing just after the referendum. We need a Labour party that will be honest about immigration above all else right now.

But then they will never win, people do not want to hear 'immigration is a good thing' anymore sadly

 

[Mindwipe]

Smith was actually pretty competent in his BBC interview this morning. Not a 180 on my view that the Labour party candidates are pretty weak, but it's clear that he's considerably better at this than Eagle was.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Smith was actually pretty competent in his BBC interview this morning. Not a 180 that the Labour party candidates are pretty weak, but it's clear that he's considerably better at this than Eagle was.

I mean, he was a PR guy. Media management was his job.

 

[Mindwipe]

I mean, he was a PR guy. Media management was his job.

Leadsom was supposed to have been a fund manager and she couldn't add up.

 

[Ushojax]

Corbyn just got ethered by May at PMQs. It's going to be like this every week.

 

[Real Hero]

corbyn is so shit at pmqs.

 

[Jezbollah]

May is battering Jezza. It's horrific.

 

[Real Hero]

https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/755723446294839296

God she's evil but she's destroying him

 

[Hazzuh]

Corbyn asked a good question on Boris being racist and then didn't follow up...

 

[SamVimes]

https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/755723446294839296

God she's evil but she's destroying him

God every time I see a video from the British parliament I'm reminded of how disgusting British politics are.

 

[Real Hero]

Corbyn asked a good question on Boris being racist and then didn't follow up...

I can't believe he just dropped it

 

[Jezbollah]

I can't believe he just dropped it

I can.

He's inept.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/755723446294839296

God she's evil but she's destroying him

Ouch, that left a mark.

 

[PJV3]

Corbyn asked a good question on Boris being racist and then didn't follow up...

It doesn't matter, she isn't going to answer and our media don't care, if it mattered he wouldn't be FM in the first place.

 

[Zaph]

https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/755723446294839296

God she's evil but she's destroying him

At times I can't help but like May for all the wrong reasons. Under better circumstances it would be kind of cool to have such a super-villain character as PM.

 

[twobear]

I can't think of any circumstances under which I would want Theresa May as a Prime Minister.

 

[PJV3]

I can't think of any circumstances under which I would want Theresa May as a Prime Minister.

I haven't forgotten the alternatives yet, Gove and Leadsom

 

[RangerX]

Why do people think she battered him? May was resorting to ad hominem trash while Corbyn kept his calm and tried to get her to address facts.

 

[Dambrosi]

I can't think of any circumstances under which I would want Theresa May as a Prime Minister.

Tough shit, at least it wasn't Boris. Or Gove, or Leadsom (thank the merciful Gods).

Why do people think she battered him? May was resorting to ad hominem trash while Corbyn kept his calm and tried to get her to address facts.

Corbynistas, ladies and gentlemen! Reality is subjective!

It doesn't matter if he tried to address facts if he abjectly failed at it.

The below post articulates it far better than I did.

 

[Lirlond]

Because we live in the post fact world, no one cares about his composure, they care that May got up there and attacked him. PMQs is a media show, it's all about getting yourself on the paper.

 

[kmag]

Why do people think she battered him? May was resorting to ad hominem trash while Corbyn kept his calm and tried to get her to address facts.

For the same reason he always gets battered. Frames his first question reasonably well (although Orgreave isn't exactly a hot button topic for the public), fails to follow up on his original question and phrases each subsequent question so he's asking about two things allowing the PM to easily skirt the question.

He had her on shaky ground with the question about Boris, but the lack of a follow up (which after all is the one advantage the leader of the opposition has over other MP's) on the same subject allowed her to dance around it.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Why do people think she battered him? May was resorting to ad hominem trash while Corbyn kept his calm and tried to get her to address facts.

Because nothing she said was untrue. Yes it was an ad hominem, but it doesn't change that.

 

[twobear]

I still can't get over how absolutely and completely fucked left wing politics is in the UK. I think we could be looking at an unbroken string of Tory majorities for a generation or more, without them even trying.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I still can't get over how absolutely and completely fucked left wing politics is in the UK. I think we could be looking at an unbroken string of Tory majorities for a generation or more, without them even trying.

Corybn isn't exactly helping the cause in that regard.

 

[Jackpot]

Corbyn asked a good question on Boris being racist and then didn't follow up...

He never follows up. Time after time every single PMQs article I read says how he never focused or nailed anything down.

 

[Dambrosi]

I still can't get over how absolutely and completely fucked left wing politics is in the UK. I think we could be looking at an unbroken string of Tory majorities for a generation or more, without them even trying.

To be fair, it's our own bloody fault. We let the press and UKIP dictate the terms of the debate. There was nothing we could say to convince the alienated base after that.

All we can really do is wait for Murdoch to die, persuade his heirs over to our side, and pray.

 

[twobear]

Corybn isn't exactly helping the cause in that regard.

No, not at all. But between the result of the last general election, the EU referendum, Scotland turning SNP, and the lack of compelling leaders from Labour, it all paints a picture of a country that is moving further and further to the right.

 

[Uzzy]

Why do people think she battered him? May was resorting to ad hominem trash while Corbyn kept his calm and tried to get her to address facts.

Because unfortunately PMQ's isn't about holding the government to account, or asking questions about policy, or seeing if they might address an issue. It's all about the insults and attacking the other party.

Doesn't matter if Corbyn asks good questions, Cameron and now May will just ignore them and attack him. Doesn't help that the Labour Party are making it really easy for her.

 

[Audioboxer]

https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/755723446294839296

God she's evil but she's destroying him

Brb doubling down on vote for independence to rid Scotland of Westminster.

Also another chance to pimp this parody account as it is great - https://twitter.com/AngrySalmond

 

[Zaph]

I still can't get over how absolutely and completely fucked left wing politics is in the UK. I think we could be looking at an unbroken string of Tory majorities for a generation or more, without them even trying.

Yup, I think the left wing, as an influential entity at least, is dead for at least a generation. The topic of immigration has drowned out all other conversation - even in places where there isn't any - and the Left will always be on the 'wrong' side of that when it comes to popular support.

Genuinely have no clue how you fight such an irrational problem, especially when there are no solutions.

 

[Hazzuh]

I'm actually pretty optimistic about the future of the Labour party in certain respects. I assume most people here agree that the deal being promised by people like Davis is totally unachievable. There is polling I saw that said that 2/3rds of people value staying in the single market over stopping immigration. If Labour sticks to a message that an EEA type deal is the only workable solution then they will gain in the long term even if it hurts them in the short term IMO. The news for the next few years is going to be dominated by teary-eyed people who will lose out from whatever ridiculous deal May's team are trying to strike. "The Tories lied and now they can't get a good deal for Britain, that what we've been saying this whole time." is a message that will work on the doorstep.

Maybe I'm being naive but I think it's both the morally correct and good politics (in the long term).

 

[twobear]

I'm actually pretty optimistic about the future of the Labour party in certain respects. I assume most people here agree that the deal being promised by people like Davis is totally unachievable. There is polling I saw that said that 2/3rds of people value staying in the single market over stopping immigration. If Labour sticks to a message that an EEA type deal is the only workable solution then they will gain in the long term even if it hurts them in the short term IMO. The news for the next few years is going to be dominated by teary-eyed people who will lose out from whatever ridiculous deal May's team are trying to strike. "The Tories lied and now they can't get a good deal for Britain, that what we've been saying this whole time." is a message that will work on the doorstep.

Maybe I'm being naive but I think it's both the morally correct and good politics (in the long term).

If that poll were accurate, we would never have voted to leave the EU.

 

[Plasma]

If that poll were accurate, we would never have voted to leave the EU.

Most people voting to leave the EU didn't seem to have any clue to what they were actually voting to leave though.