zomgbbqftw
Banned
JonathanEx said:
That's why it isn't true. It's not like Charles went to a judge and got a superinjunction granted. It would be a D-notice. Just 4chan playing silly buggers.
UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.
- Thread starter Chinner
- Start date
That's why it isn't true. It's not like Charles went to a judge and got a superinjunction granted. It would be a D-notice. Just 4chan playing silly buggers.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
PJV3 said:
Really? I don't see why that should be so. We've a pretty good record of troublesome heirs becoming good Kings (e.g. Henry V) - though of course there's a fair few the other way round.
There's absolutely no requirement for personal opinion - or even knowledge, eloquence or persuasiveness - in the role of the monarch. Not being actually dead is pretty well the only qualification these days.
So why would this be a laughing stock thing, eh? Whatever it is it's a lot less bad than a few elected leaders I could probably mention but won't for fear of us all going off at a tangent.
EDIT: It's late at night. Reading the first part of your post makes me realise you were perhaps not entirely serious.
radioheadrule83
Banned
Meadows said:
Similar rumour went around in 2009
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/107426-FACT-Queen-of-England-Dead
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Trade deficit on goods narrowed this month to £7.8bn. The government's economic policy is working, exports rose by 0.7% and imports fell by a similar amount. Britain exported the most goods since record began in 1998. This is good news, but it needs to continue, and that seems unlikely because our major trading partners are going through some pretty rough times atm.
Our only choice is to grow our exports to Asia and South America which means taking the German route of telling the EU where they can stick their regulations and duties.
Our only choice is to grow our exports to Asia and South America which means taking the German route of telling the EU where they can stick their regulations and duties.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Sir Fragula said:
http://twitpic.com/6zu92x
You can kind of make it out a bit there.
Letwin is a tool and the government needs to look at his employment status.
I smell a reshuffle. A minor one at least anyway. Letwin and Fox HAVE TO GO.
Letwin himself seems like a lovely individual:
"Oliver Letwin reportedly agreed to repay a bill for £2,145 for replacing a leaking pipe under the tennis court at his constituency home in Somerset, which he had claimed on his parliamentary expenses."
"He once declared that he would rather beg on the street than let his children go to an inner city comprehensive school."
Letwin himself seems like a lovely individual:
"Oliver Letwin reportedly agreed to repay a bill for £2,145 for replacing a leaking pipe under the tennis court at his constituency home in Somerset, which he had claimed on his parliamentary expenses."
"He once declared that he would rather beg on the street than let his children go to an inner city comprehensive school."
Also, I've just been thinking, we really need to increase the pay of our MPs. With the new overly bureaucratic expenses system and pay being at a reasonable, but not horribly competitive £65,000, I can't help but think we need to be paying the people who run the country a lot better. They're always under scrutiny and endure a lot of pressure, plus raising their wage gives extra incentive against corruption.
PJV3
Member
A spokeswoman for Mr Letwin said the papers concerned were not sensitive.
She said: Oliver Letwin does some of his parliamentary and constituency correspondence in the park before going to work and sometimes disposes of copies of letters there. They are not documents of a sensitive nature.
He was photographed on five days last month and this month, reading papers in St James Park then disposing of the documents in bins.
The papers were reported to be correspondence including letters from other ministers, fellow MPs, and constituents.
Other letters are reported to contain the personal details of constituents, including home addresses and telephone numbers
She said: Oliver Letwin does some of his parliamentary and constituency correspondence in the park before going to work and sometimes disposes of copies of letters there. They are not documents of a sensitive nature.
He was photographed on five days last month and this month, reading papers in St James Park then disposing of the documents in bins.
The papers were reported to be correspondence including letters from other ministers, fellow MPs, and constituents.
Other letters are reported to contain the personal details of constituents, including home addresses and telephone numbers
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Meadows said:
I think MPs giving themselves a pay rise during an economic downturn is a non-starter. Seriously.
On a Cabinet reshuffle:
Out - Fox, Lansley, Letwin, Huhne, Spellman
In - Not really sure, but anyone would be better the outgoing.
frankie_baby
Member
Fuck that give all the mps a 5 grand pay cut 60,000 a year is more than enough for anybody and would save the government well over 3 million a yearMeadows said:
Meadows said:
he embodies the cliche tory snobbery and was awful here but he's not so bad in general imo. in particular he's very useful as a figure on the tory right pushing hard for climate change action. at the tory party conference last year he was the only person organizing grass roots discussion of it there as well as making his big speech on the issue, he's responsible for most of the new green deal stuff from the current government, he made sure it was a top priority when he helped negotiate the coalition agreement after the election, worked with huhne on pushing for stronger targers and as climate scepticsm grows he's able to persuade tory voters who are unconvinced on the issue in a way that george monbiot isn't. if he goes i fear it'll drop off the agenda completely.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
So I've just heard Fox is going to walk tonight and Malcolm Rifkind has been lined up to replace him. A very good decision and it will add a lot of gravitas to the Cabinet. Something that has been sorely lacking so far.
Edit: Confirmed. I made a thread for it here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=448524
Edit: Confirmed. I made a thread for it here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=448524
Mecha_Infantry
Banned
Wow
This Liam Fox shit is HORRIBLE
This is pure corruption and Cameron is still sitting on the top of the tree like he had no idea what the fuck is going on?
Shiiiiiiiiiiiet
This Liam Fox shit is HORRIBLE
This is pure corruption and Cameron is still sitting on the top of the tree like he had no idea what the fuck is going on?
Shiiiiiiiiiiiet
Had fresher's fair today at Uni (basically a fair where you sign up for sports clubs/political clubs etc) and there was a UKIP stall giving out condoms with the logo on them saying "Don't waste an election!".
Just thought I'd let you know, also there was a bag of about 500 of them behind the stall which I tried to nick but they caught me. Could have got a fiver on eBay!
Just thought I'd let you know, also there was a bag of about 500 of them behind the stall which I tried to nick but they caught me. Could have got a fiver on eBay!
Subliminal
Member
Yeah, we had our freshers fair the other week. Somehow Conservative Future is the biggest society in Sheffield?!
StealthGoblin
Banned
Subliminal said:
Sheffield will be a big one to watch come the next election. The LibDem's traditionally do well in University cities and because of their backtracking on fee's they could suffer quite a bit. If a Tory presence is growing there then I am not surprised.
MPs to vote on EU referendum
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15354203
Don't have any polls handy (I'm sure you'll be able to dig some up), but my gut feeling says that if this goes to a referendum, people will (probably by a landslide) vote to leave the EU, not because of any common sense but just because of stupid Daily Mail stories. Oh, and watch out for Anti-EU campaigners to look at examples like Norway as one of the reasons we should leave.
Interesting times ahead, personally I'll vote for us to stay in, but I think I'm in the minority.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15354203
Don't have any polls handy (I'm sure you'll be able to dig some up), but my gut feeling says that if this goes to a referendum, people will (probably by a landslide) vote to leave the EU, not because of any common sense but just because of stupid Daily Mail stories. Oh, and watch out for Anti-EU campaigners to look at examples like Norway as one of the reasons we should leave.
Interesting times ahead, personally I'll vote for us to stay in, but I think I'm in the minority.
well this question isn't set up to split the pro-european vote at all.
i used to be in favour of a referendum so we could have a proper debate on the eu as it's a contentious issue and getting it out there would clear some of the anger, but after the av referendum i don't trust the sides to play fair. that said i don't expect anything to come of the debate.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
PSNB for the first half of the year is down £7.5bn compared to the same period last year which means deficit reduction is bang on target to meet the £15bn reduction this year.
The bad news is that current spending has gone up YoY, but that is more to do with restating public sector 'investment' into current spending from Brown's spurious investments. The real measure of public sector spending is down by about £5bn this year compared to the 12 months prior which is the measure of the cuts made. This figure should be about £10bn by the end of the year in March.
Other bad news is that interest payments (literally money down the drain) have increased by £5.8bn in the current year, basically wiping out any savings made in spending and social security payments are up by about £7.5bn because of benefit changes made by IDS. This figure is supposed to come down in 2013 quite rapidly, but I am not convinced.
The bad news is that current spending has gone up YoY, but that is more to do with restating public sector 'investment' into current spending from Brown's spurious investments. The real measure of public sector spending is down by about £5bn this year compared to the 12 months prior which is the measure of the cuts made. This figure should be about £10bn by the end of the year in March.
Other bad news is that interest payments (literally money down the drain) have increased by £5.8bn in the current year, basically wiping out any savings made in spending and social security payments are up by about £7.5bn because of benefit changes made by IDS. This figure is supposed to come down in 2013 quite rapidly, but I am not convinced.
killer_clank
Member
this whole eu situation is COMPLETELY FUCKING INSANE. Normally I try not to be offensive, but people who argue to leave the EU entirely are fucking total idiot nutjobs, who've been completely misled and twisted into their views by the utter shit and half truths presented by the daily mail and the express.
What do they even want? Leave the eU but still have free trade? If you want the free trade, you have to agree to the regulations, whether in or out.
The worst fucking part is all these "LEAVE TEH EU, ALL THE RED TAPE AND THE REGULATIONS AND THE ELF N SAFETY AND BENT VEGETABLES" just don't understand how many jobs and companies are dependent on the EU, and how many jobs would be lost if we were to leave.
In normal situations, I would support a referendum, since I believe in democracy, but I simply can't trust it to be run well, after the UTTER FUCKING TRAVESTY that was the AV referendum. Half truths and utter lies. The campaign would just descend into "BUT THE ELF N SAFETY AND VEGETABLES AND MY TAXES GOING TO EUROPE" shit would win out.
Fuck these people.
What do they even want? Leave the eU but still have free trade? If you want the free trade, you have to agree to the regulations, whether in or out.
The worst fucking part is all these "LEAVE TEH EU, ALL THE RED TAPE AND THE REGULATIONS AND THE ELF N SAFETY AND BENT VEGETABLES" just don't understand how many jobs and companies are dependent on the EU, and how many jobs would be lost if we were to leave.
In normal situations, I would support a referendum, since I believe in democracy, but I simply can't trust it to be run well, after the UTTER FUCKING TRAVESTY that was the AV referendum. Half truths and utter lies. The campaign would just descend into "BUT THE ELF N SAFETY AND VEGETABLES AND MY TAXES GOING TO EUROPE" shit would win out.
Fuck these people.
StealthGoblin
Banned
I'm not for pulling out of the EU altogether, but we do need some of our powers repatriated.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Before ranting about a subject you clearly don't understand I suggest you read about it first. Leaving the EU would not end in Armageddon as you suggest. Access to the common market is all but guaranteed since we have a £20bn trade deficit with the EU15, i.e. we spend more money buying good from them than they do from us.
Becoming semi-detached with EFTA is what most sane people want because you get the common market without the crazy social and political aspects of the EU that really does cost time, money and jobs. You must also remember that Britain and the EU are members of the WTO so if the EU decided to put up artificial trade barriers up against Britain as revenge for leaving the EU, Britain would win and the barriers removed or the EU would face expulsion from the WTO, hastening their economic decline.
Another thing you have missed is the cascade effect of Britain leaving the EU, I would be very, very surprised if Sweden, Denmark and Finland didn't follow us to the exit. Scandinavian countries look at Norway and see how things could have been in their own countries and if it was proven that the sky wouldn't fall, as you suggest, if one left the EU then I think they would dash for the door before the EU became one of those clubs you could join but never leave.
On the EU difficulties and Eurozone, well here it is laid out in simple terms.
Greece is about to go bankrupt and bondholders are expected to take upto 75% haircuts on their holdings. French banks are the largest holders of Greek debt, and they would be expected to take the same haircut on their assets which means losses of around $120bn in the sector. That means the French banks will go bankrupt without a bailout or full nationalisation. France can't afford to nationalise its banking sector like we did in 2008, their economy doesn't really have the underlying strength to take on trillions in Euro denominated debts from PIGS nations. That means if they tried they would face the same situation Ireland had earlier in 2010 where the government backstopped the banks but found themselves unable to afford it so their ratings were cut and they were forced into a bailout from an EU/IMF/UK fund.
What the French want is the EFSF to be used to bail out their banks, the Germans, as primary contributors, are not going to say yes to their money being used to bail out irresponsible French banks when their own banks are being bailed out with German money rather than EFSF money. The other thing the French want is for the EFSF to be leveraged to borrow money from the markets and use that to bail out EU countries, but that kind of turns the EFSF into Eurobonds by the back door as once leveraged the fund would start paying interest, and Germany would be liable for most of that. So again, Germany are putting up massive resistance to that idea, as are the UK because it devalues Bunds and we hold upwards of £500bn worth of Bunds in this country.
Basically France are about to go through what we did in 2008, an unpopular bailing out and recapitalisation/nationalisation of their failed banks but instead of paying for it themselves they want the rest of Europe to pay for it. The rest of Europe have told them to fuck off.
Becoming semi-detached with EFTA is what most sane people want because you get the common market without the crazy social and political aspects of the EU that really does cost time, money and jobs. You must also remember that Britain and the EU are members of the WTO so if the EU decided to put up artificial trade barriers up against Britain as revenge for leaving the EU, Britain would win and the barriers removed or the EU would face expulsion from the WTO, hastening their economic decline.
Another thing you have missed is the cascade effect of Britain leaving the EU, I would be very, very surprised if Sweden, Denmark and Finland didn't follow us to the exit. Scandinavian countries look at Norway and see how things could have been in their own countries and if it was proven that the sky wouldn't fall, as you suggest, if one left the EU then I think they would dash for the door before the EU became one of those clubs you could join but never leave.
On the EU difficulties and Eurozone, well here it is laid out in simple terms.
Greece is about to go bankrupt and bondholders are expected to take upto 75% haircuts on their holdings. French banks are the largest holders of Greek debt, and they would be expected to take the same haircut on their assets which means losses of around $120bn in the sector. That means the French banks will go bankrupt without a bailout or full nationalisation. France can't afford to nationalise its banking sector like we did in 2008, their economy doesn't really have the underlying strength to take on trillions in Euro denominated debts from PIGS nations. That means if they tried they would face the same situation Ireland had earlier in 2010 where the government backstopped the banks but found themselves unable to afford it so their ratings were cut and they were forced into a bailout from an EU/IMF/UK fund.
What the French want is the EFSF to be used to bail out their banks, the Germans, as primary contributors, are not going to say yes to their money being used to bail out irresponsible French banks when their own banks are being bailed out with German money rather than EFSF money. The other thing the French want is for the EFSF to be leveraged to borrow money from the markets and use that to bail out EU countries, but that kind of turns the EFSF into Eurobonds by the back door as once leveraged the fund would start paying interest, and Germany would be liable for most of that. So again, Germany are putting up massive resistance to that idea, as are the UK because it devalues Bunds and we hold upwards of £500bn worth of Bunds in this country.
Basically France are about to go through what we did in 2008, an unpopular bailing out and recapitalisation/nationalisation of their failed banks but instead of paying for it themselves they want the rest of Europe to pay for it. The rest of Europe have told them to fuck off.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Galvanise_ said:
Trouble is, it is rather hard to work out which ones it would make sense to repatriate. There are all sorts of knock-on effects.
I'm reasonably comfortable with the current scope of the EU, what I'm unhappy with the the woefully sluggish and expensive bureaucracy that goes with it, and the apparent unaccountability of much of what the Commission does. That is something it's better to tackle from the inside, unless you actually want the EU to fail in the long term, which I can't see as being a good idea.
There's a huge amount has been achieved in particular around free trade that would be stupid to throw away.
Go on, those powers you want repatriated - name three of 'em.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Chinner said:
Hey, I resent that. I never ever deal with insurance salesmen.
I wouldn't worry about it. If the lengths that Cameron and Hague are going to to bury the referendum proposal (Hague telling Tory MPs not to vote for it, three-line whip against it, Cam saying it's a distraction, etc.) are anything to go by, they at least realise it's bullhooey, too.killer_clank said:
And this mess is another reason for us to keep fighting to remove Murdoch and Friends from the UK media establishment. You all heard that the Murdochs only just survived a vote to oust them from the News International board of directors at their AGM last Friday, I take it? Seems not even their own shareholders want anything to do with them anymore. Plus, with more allegations of hacking (this time with computers) coming soon, there'll soon be an opportunity to get rid of them for good, I
And yet that's actually one of the Nasty Party's more progressive policies.Chinner said:
Anyone watch the SNP conference? Very uplifting. Loved his lines about how the days when Downing Street controlled the destiny of Scotland were finished.
I keep saying this, but we English need an Alex Salmond of our own. A progressive, positive politician who will speak up for England while being humble enough to recognise that there is a lot we can learn from abroad.
EDIT: Regarding the EU. I think most people, when properly informed, would be happy with the scope of the EU as it stands. I'd rather there was more EU involvement at the "edges" and less in the "centre" - by which I mean a stronger role in foreign and defence policy, a weaker role in domestic policies.
killer_clank
Member
Sir Fragula said:
Yep, any attempt by Westminster to hold an independence referendum on their own terms would be a total disaster on their part, even people inclined to vote to stay in the union would be outraged by that. I particularly liked the proposal to reaffirm the 1989 Scottish Claim of Right, that should put the opposition parties in a tight spot if they were actually considering holding a referendum of their own. The only fair way to go about it is for the referendum to be called by the Scottish parliament and government, who has a mandate to hold one, with 3 possible outcomes, status quo, devo max and independence. This is the best proposal that truly lets the Scottish people decide what they want.
I suspect devo max would win currently, and I'd be happy with that. It's essentially independence in all but name, and the more psychological barriers that are broken down to make people comfortable with eventually voting to remove all political ties. I'd be perfectly happy with cultural ties staying in full effect, a more Scandinavian structure to the British Isles would work much bettter I think.
Wait, what? You mean Chinner was actually serious? I'm confuzzled. More by the fact that I wouldn't put it past the Tories to set up concentration camps, especially if they were for illegal immigrants. Children Of Men without the baby drought, anyone?Sir Fragula said:
(Also, I don't believe zomg wants that, just to be clear.)
I do like Alex Salmond, but I wouldn't call him "humble" by any stretch of the imagination.Sir Fragula said:
Mind you, I've noticed a distinct separatist tone to some of your posts. In that vein, what make you of ETA's cessation of armed conflict over the weekend?
Well, I have no complaints about the Human Rights Act or the ECHR, and the only ones who do tend to be Daily Mail and Express readers, so fuck them. *sings Ode To Joy*Sir Fragula said:
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Sir Fragula said:
Nick Clegg then - unhampered by a coalition?
Not sure how you could get both. Unless there's some commonality in domestic policies it is hard to see how you'd get anywhere with common ground in defence (too dependent on really expensive procurement) and foreign (too dependent on trading alliances).
I suspect that, if the EU survives the current mess, there will be far more emphasis on government responsibilities of the member States and a little less of the rights-based stuff that we had an abundance of so far.
It is only fair to point out that the reason that much of the EU stuff seems horrendously complicated and onerous is the complicated and onerous barriers that the member States had put up in the first place. It isn't like it is the EU's fault that that was the starting point.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Dambrosi said:
Quite true. The Convention on Human Rights and the European Court of Human Rights are things created by the Council of Europe. This is not to be confused with either the European Council or the Council of the European Union. They are different things entirely.
Council of Europe is nothing to do with the EU. It has something like 54 member states - way more than the EU has. And the ECHR is completely distinct from the European Court of Justice - the latter is a body of the EU and its job it to interpret and apply EU law, the former is a body of the Council of Europe and its job is solely to interpret and apply the Convention on Human Rights.
Except that (I think) membership of the Council, or at least adherence to the Convention is a prerequisite for entry to the EU, the two are unrelated except, partially, geographically.
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