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[Cthulhu_Steev]

Connie Yu mentioned something about a sparkly new "rendering pipeline" technique.

I think Shinobi's mate at Ubi said that, not Yu.

Speaking of Shinobi, he also appeared in the Official Playstation Magazine's rumour section this month as an 'industry insider', no less. Thuway and Mortimer heard weeping softly as I turned page.

 

[Handy Fake]

The jump in quality is impressive no doubt.

I am still sceptical about it being real time regardless of what ND say, it's not like they would admit if it was pre rendered anyway.

I expect there to be downgrades by release also, so you may wana do the same lol.

I think ND have been pretty much transparent with gamers since day one in all honesty. No smoke and mirrors with that lot.

 

[JayKay1337]

I want to believe , but they said the same thing for Killzone 2 at E3 2005

 

[TacticalFox88]

I'm bookmarking all of the naysayers and when ND delivers they will be publicly shamed.

 

[The Rain King]

Running on one PS4?! Even though I'd already seen it, I swear I did the Banderas once I scrolled down to the pic of Nate's face. Pure witchcraft.

 

[Handy Fake]

I think Shinobi's mate at Ubi said that, not Yu.

Speaking of Shinobi, he also appeared in the Official Playstation Magazine's rumour section this month as an 'industry insider', no less. Thuway and Mortimer heard weeping softly as I turned page.

Ah yes, apologies, I got muddled up.


Just saw this tweet by her though:

"Our U4 trailer is an in engine real game level running on a real PS4,Paolur trailer doesn't look good enough to be prerender CGI"

 

[dragonbane]

MSAA 4x, the slow movement and the light covering of DoF across parts of the face probably all combine to get rid of the jaggies. Also IIRC, under the right circumstances MSAA can give results quite similar to SSAA.

But native 1080p AND 60 fps? MSAA 4x would kill that immediately. The Order barely manages to hold 30 and is not even running at full 1920x1080. ND is amazing, but I mean...

 

[Amentallica]

You know you have approached singularity levels of conversation when that carmack tweet comes up. Probably the most misquoted statement on GAF.

I really wish people would research into the things they post, especially regarding tech.

People, this Uncharted demo looking how it does is not that surprising...

Looks fantastic, but that is not a game yet. Let's wait a bit until we see some 60fps gameplay before shitting the bed with hyperbolic fanboyism or with hateful blind doubt.

Look, at this point, and after seeing this teaser several dozen times, I'd take a drop to 30 fps just to maintain this visual fidelity should 60 fps not be possible without worsening the graphics.

 

[dgrdsv]

MSAA 4x, the slow movement and the light covering of DoF across parts of the face probably all combine to get rid of the jaggies. Also IIRC, under the right circumstances MSAA can give results quite similar to SSAA.

I doubt that they're using MSAA. More likely to be some mode of SMAA. And it's probably not a good idea to search for aliasing in a compressed video even if it's direct feed.

 

[cheezcake]

But native 1080p AND 60 fps? MSAA 4x would kill that immediately. The Order barely manages to hold 30 and is not even running at full 1920x1080. ND is amazing, but I mean...

The main reason MSAA is such a performance hog these days is because it doesn't play nicely with deferred render engines, I haven't read through a Forward+ paper in detail, I only know the basic principle of it, but MSAA performance cost should be quite a bit less. Plus The Order is also implementing that soft body physics stuff which I imagine would be pretty computationally expensive.

 

[TimeEffect]

I really hope we can get to see Nathan shirtless.

God. Yes.

Has he seriously never been? :O

What a massive tease

 

[Kintaro]

Maybe I am missing something here. Why is this so impressive? It was a carefully chosen scene with no action, one character, the environment and not a lot of things going on. I would hope it would look that good at this point.

 

[ScriptedReality]

Infamous second son am cry.

 

[Nethaniah]

Maybe I am missing something here. Why is this so impressive? It was a carefully chosen scene with no action, one character, the environment and not a lot of things going on. I would hope it would look that good at this point.

You dare question the naughty gods?

 

[Reese-015]

Maybe I am missing something here. Why is this so impressive? It was a carefully chosen scene with no action, one character, the environment and not a lot of things going on. I would hope it would look that good at this point.

It's subtle, it's mostly in the image quality. It's normally extremely difficult to get rid of any and all aliasing the way they did in this footage. Only ways to get an image look this clean would usually take crazy amounts of processing power so a lot of us are a bit puzzled by that.

 

[Kintaro]

You dare question the naughty god?

Question? No. I expect this given the circumstances of the scene. =P Just like I expect fighting games to look pretty sick this generation too. Given their circumstances.

 

[BadWolf]

The visuals were crazy impressive as is but if they can run them at 1080/60fps then it will really show the hardware's power and the lack of effort/skill on the part of other developers.

 

[sixamp]

I really wish naughty dog were a PC dev. They could have made their. Games this pretty years ago.

 

[R_Deckard]

I want to believe , but they said the same thing for Killzone 2 at E3 2005

That WASN'T ND.

This is DEFO realtime, I have gone through it now and you can see the shadows Aliasing and running lower that 60 on the leaves in the jungle as it pans across.

Also you can see the angular sections to his top on his right arm as he sits up and some flickering on his arm prior to his shadow casting across the arm.

His little finger clips through his ring on his hand and the water is 2 maps over each other as he sits up with a mesh texture running, if this was CGI that would be connected and fully tessellated, the drips of him have no contact with Nate or the water as they drip in.

They are truly GODS, I cannot wait to see what this and the rest of the PS4 cycle brings, even X1 owners should be happy as we are now seeing TRUE next Gen games.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Maybe I am missing something here. Why is this so impressive? It was a carefully chosen scene with no action, one character, the environment and not a lot of things going on. I would hope it would look that good at this point.

Well imagine that when drake starts walking through the jungle the camera pulls in and your now playing with those visuals.


Does that click?

 

[jacksepticeye]

It's amazing how far technology in games has come

 

[dwells]

The visuals were crazy impressive as is but if they can run them at 1080/60fps then it will really show the hardware's power and the lack of effort/skill on the part of other developers.

I wouldn't say a lack of effort or skill on other developers' parts, just that ND happens to be extremely, extremely talented. Just because Usain Bolt is leagues ahead of everyone else doesn't mean the other runners aren't skilled and putting in the effort.

 

[Reese-015]

WAIT A SEC

I just realized that there is no quote from any of the ND devs/reps that it is running in real-time. Corinne Yu avoids the word 'real-time' at all times, instead uses words like real in-game level etc. Beyond3D and that other site may have been told the exact same things, leading them to report that it is indeed 'real-time'. Easy to make that mistake but there's a difference there.

 

[Handy Fake]

WAIT A SEC

I just realized that there is no quote from any of the ND devs/reps that it is running in real-time. Corinne Yu avoids the word 'real-time' at all times, instead uses words like real in-game level etc. Beyond3D and that other site may have been told the exact same things, leading them to report that it is indeed 'real-time'. Easy to make that mistake but there's a difference there.

"Our U4 trailer is an in engine real game level running on a real PS4,Paolur trailer doesn't look good enough to be prerender CGI"

 

[Lord Error]

I still can't believe they've accomplished essentially perfect level of AA in a 1080p/60 game that looks like this. Just doesn't seem possible given history of realtime graphics.

 

[TacticalFox88]

WAIT A SEC

I just realized that there is no quote from any of the ND devs/reps that it is running in real-time. Corinne Yu avoids the word 'real-time' at all times, instead uses words like real in-game level etc. Beyond3D and that other site may have been told the exact same things, leading them to report that it is indeed 'real-time'. Easy to make that mistake but there's a difference there.

And here we go...

Again

 

[Reese-015]

"Our U4 trailer is an in engine real game level running on a real PS4,Paolur trailer doesn't look good enough to be prerender CGI"

EXACTLY.

I mean... Yes it's in-engine. Yes it's a 'real game level'. Yes it's running on a real PS4. But...

Why the hell not say it's real-time?!

All of this could still refer to in-engine stuff recorded at a low fps and supersampled and played back at a high fps. This is how many game cutscenes are done.

Corinne Yu is a super smart and experienced dev, she knows what she's doing, if she doesn't outright simply say "yep it's real-time", there's a good reason for that imo.

This is getting interesting .

 

[ScepticMatt]

What AA are they using that not even the eyelashes are aliased, that looks like supersampled level IQ but there's no way you could use SSAA or MSAA and hope to hit 60fps.

I really don't know shit about computer graphics, so I don't even know if this is plausible, but could they have come up with their own proprietary AA solution? Given the closed box nature of the console and not having to worry about compatibility issues?

Just talking out of my ass (speculation):

Using a forward+ renderer
* making MSAA cheaper
* Alpha blended geometry (especially for hair)
Using better temporal supersampling, like SMAA 1Tx

Hiding AA with
* Depth of field
* Motion blur
* Grain
* low contrast edges

 

[Handy Fake]

EXACTLY.

I mean... Yes it's in-engine. Yes it's a 'real game level'. Yes it's running on a real PS4. But...

Why the hell not say it's real-time?!

All of this could still refer to in-engine stuff recorded at a low fps and supersampled and played back at a high fps. This is how many game cutscenes are done.

Corinne Yu is a super smart and experienced dev, she knows what she's doing, if she doesn't outright simply say "yep it's real-time", there's a good reason for that imo.

This is getting interesting .

Aye, I get you.

I really don't think ND are the type of devs to pull the wool over people's eyes. I'm sticking with that.

 

[Callibretto]

All of this could still refer to in-engine stuff recorded at a low fps and supersampled and played back at a high fps. This is how many game cutscenes are done.

Corinne Yu is a super smart and experienced dev, she knows what she's doing, if she doesn't outright simply say "yep it's real-time", there's a good reason for that imo.

This is getting interesting .

that's called pre rendered. and she said it's not it.

 

[Insane Metal]

PS4 related, a fan video a pal from another board made https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ3ChROqDJI

Really cool.

 

[Violater]

Sigh.. some people really have an appetite for crow.

 

[Kintaro]

Well imagine that when drake starts walking through the jungle the camera pulls in and your now playing with those visuals.

Does that click?

If it does? Cool. But it doesn't right now.

It looks great, but from what we were given to look at, it should look great. So, it's not really a surprise nor will I go ga-ga over it. This is what I expect from 1st party devs. Their games should look the best.

Right now, Witcher 3 is quite a bit more impressive to me. But that's because I've been able to see a lot more from it. =P

 

[SaucyJack]

EXACTLY.

I mean... Yes it's in-engine. Yes it's a 'real game level'. Yes it's running on a real PS4. But...

Why the hell not say it's real-time?!

All of this could still refer to in-engine stuff recorded at a low fps and supersampled and played back at a high fps. This is how many game cutscenes are done.

Corinne Yu is a super smart and experienced dev, she knows what she's doing, if she doesn't outright simply say "yep it's real-time", there's a good reason for that imo.

This is getting interesting .

140 character tweet limit.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

All of this could still refer to in-engine stuff recorded at a low fps and supersampled and played back at a high fps. This is how many game cutscenes are done.

Read the OP.

We've studied the video in a little more depth and have concluded that it's definitely running at native 1080p resolution (as opposed to being rendered at a very high resolution, then scaled down - a process known as super-sampling).

 

[cheezcake]

Just talking out of my ass (speculation):

Using a forward+ renderer
* making MSAA cheaper
* Alpha blended geometry (especially for hair)
Using better temporal supersampling, like SMAA 1Tx

Hiding AA with
* Depth of field
* Motion blur
* Grain
* low contrast edges

Haha thats actually the exact same conclusion I came to above, except the temporal AA component which is most likely true as well. Given that we know The Order is already using a forward+ renderer it makes a fair bit of sense.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

EXACTLY.

I mean... Yes it's in-engine. Yes it's a 'real game level'. Yes it's running on a real PS4. But...

Why the hell not say it's real-time?!

All of this could still refer to in-engine stuff recorded at a low fps and supersampled and played back at a high fps. This is how many game cutscenes are done.

Corinne Yu is a super smart and experienced dev, she knows what she's doing, if she doesn't outright simply say "yep it's real-time", there's a good reason for that imo.

This is getting interesting .

Well, the point is that Uncharted4 doesn't have prerendered cutscenes, its all real-time.
I guess thats whats confusing people.
Uncharted 1-3 had prerendered cutscenes, so ingame and in-engine could still mean prerendered, but since U4 doesn't have prerendered cutscenes that basically confirmes its realtime.

 

[TronLight]

MSAA 4x, the slow movement and the light covering of DoF across parts of the face probably all combine to get rid of the jaggies. Also IIRC, under the right circumstances MSAA can give results quite similar to SSAA.

Nope, MSAA only remoes jaggies from geometry, but shader aliasing, texture aliasing, specular aliasing would still be a problem. Not to mention the performance impact.

 

[DarkJC]

EXACTLY.

I mean... Yes it's in-engine. Yes it's a 'real game level'. Yes it's running on a real PS4. But...

Why the hell not say it's real-time?!

All of this could still refer to in-engine stuff recorded at a low fps and supersampled and played back at a high fps. This is how many game cutscenes are done.

Corinne Yu is a super smart and experienced dev, she knows what she's doing, if she doesn't outright simply say "yep it's real-time", there's a good reason for that imo.

This is getting interesting .

In the very first quote in the OP...

They (Naughty Dog’s Studio Coordinator Rodney Reece and Lead FX Artist Keith Guerrette) confirmed to us that the Uncharted 4 trailer showcased during Sony’s E3 2014 press conference was a part of an actual level in game. Secondly, they also confirmed that the entire trailer was running in real time on the PlayStation 4 and it was all in-engine.

 

[Threefingered]

Brand new here, so this is just my 2 cents that are probably not even worth 2 cents on this board...

Give a developer an area the size of a living room, and give them a great engine and a boatload of talented artists and I believe that a scene could look that good in-engine. I believe that the scene they showed was for real.

It's when you start expanding that area into a jungle-sized landscape, and adding all the components that make a level in a game(animations, enemies, particles, large scale physics, atmosphere, lighting, shadows, AI) that I have my doubts.

Thats all. Just thinking rationally...ND is an amazing developer though...I remain hopeful.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

If it does? Cool. But it doesn't right now.

It looks great, but from what we were given to look at, it should look great. So, it's not really a surprise nor will I go ga-ga over it. This is what I expect from 1st party devs. Their games should look the best.

Right now, Witcher 3 is quite a bit more impressive to me. But that's because I've been able to see a lot more from it. =P

If the visuals in this trailer are achievable in gameplay it is a tremendous leap above everything else. There is nothing even close to what were seeing in this clip.
What do you mean it should look great. Are you serious? Nobody expected we were getting games that looked like this, certainty not this early into the next gen. I
don't know if I thought we would see this till the next set of consoles.

 

[Jeronimo Jones]

Naughty Dog are wizards confirmed. Those guys and girls deliver.

 

[hwateber]

WAIT A SEC

I just realized that there is no quote from any of the ND devs/reps that it is running in real-time. Corinne Yu avoids the word 'real-time' at all times, instead uses words like real in-game level etc. Beyond3D and that other site may have been told the exact same things, leading them to report that it is indeed 'real-time'. Easy to make that mistake but there's a difference there.

Smh

 

[shandy706]

As I said earlier in the thread, and find it funny people are still surprised or arguing...I thought it was real time the second I saw it.

It does not look like CGI. (just as the lady close to it said)

It looks like perfectly possible, high detail, closed area graphics. Some developers are incredibly good at this. I honestly think those that have played a game like Ryse probably aren't surprised at all. I question how many people commenting have even played Infamous:SS and Ryse on a huge big-screen in their entertainment center. If so, this isn't a leap to think Naughty Dog can do what we see.

My initial reaction was "That looks good...looks real time too, wouldn't surprise me if it is."

Studios with great art/graphic talent can do stuff like this. There aren't many (ND/Epic/Crytek/etc.), but there are a few that can make people wonder how they do it. They're just incredibly talented when it comes to creating what they can with the hardware they are given.

 

[Reese-015]

that's called pre rendered. and she said it's not it.

She said it's not "prerender CGI", which refers to offline rendered CG. Could still be an in-engine recording. She did not say it's real-time.


I did read the OP but all 'confirmations' of it being real-time are not quotes atm. They may very well come from reporters being told that it is "in game visuals in 3D captured on a Playstation 4" as Corinne Yu tweeted and then writing that it's confirmed to be real-time.

I have two current theories:
1. It's not real-time. It's clear that it's not cause of the incredible IQ and the fact that the first thing that would come to mind for a person such as Corinne Yu if she wanted to answer the question would obviously be to explicitly say that it IS in fact *real-time*. Instead, we're only getting "in game", "on a Playstation 4" and "in engine". This is hard to interpret as anything other than deliberately avoiding the use of the term 'real-time'.

2. It is real-time and the way ND is doing it is something along the lines of: using an excellent deferred rendering engine with some type of SMAA and perhaps even slight downsampling (didn't Metro: LL do something like that?) BUT the hair and facial hair would still break that perfect look so all hair rendering is done through a forward+ hair rendering system that uses perhaps something like 4xMSAA which can actually be done quite efficiently I imagine if it's just for the hair.

If it's the latter... Goddayum Naughty Dog. Well done. But I think it's the former.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

As I said earlier in the thread, and find it fun people are still surprised or arguing...I thought it was real time the second I saw it.

It does not look like CGI.

It looks like perfectly possible, high detail, closed area graphics. Some developers are incredibly good at this. I honestly think those that have played a game like Ryse probably aren't surprised at all. I question how many people commenting have even played Infamous:SS and Ryse on a huge big-screen in their entertainment center. If so, this isn't a leap to think Naughty Dog can do what we see.

My initial reaction was "That looks good...looks real time too, wouldn't surprise me if it is."

Studios with great art/graphic talent can do stuff like this. There aren't many (ND/Epic/Crytek/etc.), but there are a few that can make people wonder how they do it. They're just incredibly talented when it comes to creating what they can with the hardware they are given.

That is insanity.
I have played both Ryse and Infamous and while I agree those are spectacular looking games this is so far outside of the realm of any of that you just have to be joking. If the character models look like this trailer and the foliage, scenery and lighting is the same it is as I said a huge leap.

 

[Fried Food]

will buy for the graphics

 

[blastprocessor]

WOW running real-time, I've not seen visuals of this quality on my PC.

This is such an advancement in quality, l wasn't expecting this so early in the life cycle. One wonders what future first party games will look like because it's WWS whom will push the PS4 to it's limits.

My understanding is the game/cut-scenes are persistent, which is a nice touch.

 

[cheezcake]

That is insanity.
I have played both Ryse and Infamous and while I agree those are spectacular looking games this is so far outside of the realm of any of that you just have to be joking. If the character models look like this trailer and the foliage, scenery and lighting is the same it is as I said a huge leap.

I think this trailer is a perfect example of how under appreciated increases in IQ are, to be perfectly honest there is no particular graphical technique in this trailer which hasn't been done before. But seeing all these modern render techniques together, at 1080p, with some sort of black magic anti aliasing hasn't really been done before, ever. I feel if Ryse were on PC it would have the same visual fidelity that you see here. But unfortunately it isn't, and theres been an absolute dearth of technically ambitious pc games lately.

 

[shandy706]

That is insanity.
I have played both Ryse and Infamous and while I agree those are spectacular looking games this is so far outside of the realm of any of that you just have to be joking. If the character models look like this trailer and the foliage, scenery and lighting is the same it is as I said a huge leap.

I completely disagree character model wise, hair, lighting, foilage wise. The one thing I may give you is the water, but I'm still confident it is just a great detail they included. At 1080p on my 46" Aquos that looks like a gameplay model to me. Not CG. You can see the textures on the face..it's not a seamless CG render if it were CG.

I mentioned earlier...have you, and how many people have, swung the camera to within inches of Marius' face in Ryse? It's incredibly detailed. His hair is absolutely INSANE...in REAL TIME.

I'm an absolute detail/graphics lover. I stop in games and will run the camera into my characters faces...look at their clothing, materials, every object in a scene. I'll spend an hour in a single room studying things (my initial schooling was in graphic art and game design, I ended up in civil engineering).

The PS4 is more powerful...so I don't doubt this being possible and seeing things like Marius' REALTIME character model, especially up close, it doesn't at all look to be impossible or shocking. Do people not think ND is capable of this?

DOF, well done lighting, confined areas, and many other tricks can create incredible looking scenes.

I have to agree. Comparing that trailer to visuals of Ryse and Infamous.....not much sense going on there.

You know what, I'm just going to have to accept some people don't pay as much attention to detail when actually playing games as I do.

Point is, I have no doubt this is in-engine using the games assets in a controlled environment.