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[Lord Couture]

All we know is Ramsay sends a letter to Jon saying Stannis has been defeated. Most expected the letter to be a lie, but with the show he might be telling the truth. How the battle is fought or won or lost we have no clue.

Why is Ramsey sending a letter to Jon for? Is Myrcelle dead in the books too? Thanks for your input.

We're actually not sure who is the real author of that letter. In fact, I think there are more people who think Mance Rayder wrote it, probably because he wants the wildlings to join him in Winterfell. (In the books, Mance is still alive and Jon along with Mel sent him to save Arya Stark, as Jon believes Arya has been married to Ramsay. So Mance ends up in Winterfell and helps (fake)Arya and Theon to escape the castle. He is still in Winterfell, but we don't know what happened to him. Some people think he's hiding in the crypt, others believe that he's now in captivity.)

Interesting... So Jon could live on through Ghost? Do all the Starks have the ability to warg?

Yes, all the Starks kid have the ability to ward, as confirmed by GRRM himself. As others have mentionned, there have been several moments where Jon and Arya respectively warged Ghost and Nymeria without them knowing. We did not have a POV for Robb, but it is heavily implied that he warged Grey Wind during his campaign in the Riverlands and the Westerlands. Same for Rickon with Shaggydog.

Only Sansa has yet to show warging ability, because her direwolf Lady was killed so early. Maybe she will warg another animal later in the story, maybe not. But she has the ability.

Honestly, one of the bigger problems with the show right now is that the Boltons face no opposition for the Red Wedding.

The other Northern houses either don't exist, or don't care.

It's funny how Ramsay had to marry Sansa so the Boltons could gain legitimacy as Wardens of the North, but there was no one to oppose to them.

The wedding was quickly done in a small set. They did not even bother telling/inviting the other Northern houses. Heck, Jon received tons of letters in Castle Black, but he never learned about this wedding.

 

[Forkball]

Right, so I may be grasping straws here but what are the chances Jon Snow will be revived by Mel? Clearly she picked the wrong guy and has couldnt have returned to Castle Black at such an opportune time?

A million percent. What else is Mel and Davos going to do at the wall besides revive Jon? What about the entire Night's Watch/Wildlings/White Walker storyline? No way they are just dropping that. Yeah, they're saying "KIT'S GONE FOR GOOD" but I don't buy it. Is Jon Snow dead? Absolutely. Is Kit Harrington gone from the show forever? Hell no. They MIGHT take him out for a season, but even that is pushing it. At the very least, his body has to show up again next season like Tywin. I say when they inevitably burn him, Mel does some R'hllor stuff and he rises out of the flames alive ala Dany. It's like poetry. It rhymes (seriously though I think that is a good parallel).

So for other storylines next year...

+EURON and Iron Islands stuff. Hopefully we get a good Kingsmoot. Cutting Victarion though is ultra lame. I guess he will do some evil bastard stuff and then attack the Reach.
+Sam in Oldtown. He learns some maester junk and maybe something about the white walkers. We also might see if there are any citadel conspiracies like many theorize.
+Tarlys. I guess this may overlap with Sam. They could be involved at King's Landing or perhaps with the Euron storyline if he attacks the Reach.
+Daario and Jorah use their witcher senses to track footsteps and dropped rings.
+Season 2 remake with Tyrion and Varys ruling a city
+Dany does... something? I'm really not sure what she could possibly do with the Dothraki. Maybe D&D will turn her into a brutal rape victim like Sansa, oh joy.
+Bran and flashbacks. I bet we get a lot of Bran next year. Hell we are running out of Starks so they need to feature him more. We already know we are getting a flashback, so we might get more that possibly reveal R + L = J and maybe some white walker shenanigans.
+More dealings with the Sparrows and Cersei's trail. CLEGANEBOWL
+Jaime fucks around or something? Maybe he will go to Volantis why not.
+I guess Brienne finds Theon and Sansa. And they go where? Maybe the Wall. We know that Sansa knows Jon Snow is/was the Lord Commander, plus that Bran is alive, so that might inspire her to seek refuge there. It will be crazy if we get Mel, Davos, Sansa, Theon, Brienne, and Pod on the wall next year.
+Ramsay crushes anyone he comes across. Maybe more plot regarding Fat Walda's new child and some conflict with Roose.
+Arya continues her training and general killing spree
+I guess Ellaria goes on the run? Maybe Hotah hunts them down. WITH BRONN. Now that's a road trip.

Man if GRRM doesn't pump out that book before April, we really have no idea where a lot of characters are going in terms of storyline. It could be anything. ANYTHING.

 

[Valhelm]

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/gam...e-jon-stannis-deaths-david-nutter-1201520137/

So that interview seems to confirm that Stannis is dead for good, but Jon is soon to be resurrected?

 

[FreddieQuell]

Alright thank you guys, sounds like I'll be sort of ok reading this thread.

Dorne was such a dissapointment btw. I was hoping it was going to be the new King's Landing and it turned out to be a sub-subplot with less development and relevance than goddamn Sam. Seriously, we got to see like a single sad room and like 3 actual charaters the whole season.

Dorne really should have been more to your expectation really. I'm not sure why the show went in the direction it did.

 

[WrenchNinja]

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/gam...e-jon-stannis-deaths-david-nutter-1201520137/

There’s also speculation about whether Stannis is truly dead. We didn’t see Brienne deliver that final, fatal blow.

I think that was basically in the script. Dan and David felt it best not to be gratuitous with that. You really got a sense that Stannis had nothing else to live for. Brienne’s life-long mission had come to an end. It’s a situation in which Stannis was ready to die and prepared to die. It would have been gratuitous.

Gratuitous? Are you fucking kidding me? After pointlessly having a girl raped, burning a kid, flayed an old lady, had a woman walk through a crowd naked with shit and insults hurled at her, had a pedophile beat some kids? Really?

I mean if Stannis isn't still alive, this is the weakest excuse I've ever seen.

 

[Aureon]

No, I mean what if the loss of the actual Stark girl made the Boltons fake one?

Yeah, and from a storytelling perspective, the question would be.. why not make them fake one from the start?

 

[WaffleTaco]

Kit Harrington is still going to be in Season 6. However they are dumb for doing a cliff hanger since most people think he's still alive anyway, and things are definitely get leaked next season.

 

[jett]

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/gam...e-jon-stannis-deaths-david-nutter-1201520137/

There’s been plenty of speculation online. So can you say emphatically that Jon Snow is dead?

I can say emphatically that Jon Snow is definitely dead. I keep hearing that phrase in my head, “Ding dong, the witch is dead.” After what you saw there, I think there’s no more clear picture whether he is dead or not.

Any chance he could be resurrected by Melisandre, who returned to Castle Black?

That’s not my concern. My concern was to take care of Jon Snow, and he’s now deader than dead.

Lol. Why do these people even try.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Gratuitous? Are you fucking kidding me? After pointlessly having a girl raped, burning a kid, flayed an old lady, had a woman walk through a crowd naked with shit and insults hurled at her, had a pedophile beat some kids? Really?

I mean if Stannis isn't still alive, this is the weakest excuse I've ever seen.

lmao these fucking guys...

 

[deleted]

I think the Ramsey actor has destroyed both Winterfell and It's Always Sunny in California for me...

He is the only thing aside from the middle of the Dorne plotline I absolutely despised. I just can't take that actor seriously including all of his involving actors besides his father.

I don't understand the hate for the Dorne plotline tbh. It isn't the best, but it's far from the Asha, Winterfell, Beyond the Wall (S4), Littlefinger or Brienne plots.
It felt like an introduction to characters and a setting that will get more important next season. Sure, there was some bad dialog, but mostly for one corny one liner. Otherwise it wasn't too bad.

Is it by the way possible, that Tommen is already dead?

 

[Burt]

Gratuitous? Are you fucking kidding me? After pointlessly having a girl raped, burning a kid, flayed an old lady, had a woman walk through a crowd naked with shit and insults hurled at her, had a pedophile beat some kids? Really?

I mean if Stannis isn't still alive, this is the weakest excuse I've ever seen.

Yeah, I mean I understand trying to be deceptive about it, but pulling it off requires at least a tiny bit of self-awareness to make it sound reasonable.

"I didn't want to show up without flowers because that would've been uncouth."

- Florida Man, after missing his daughter's graduation because he smoked a ton of meth and took a tractor on the highway

 

[foxtrot3d]

Gratuitous? Are you fucking kidding me? After pointlessly having a girl raped, burning a kid, flayed an old lady, had a woman walk through a crowd naked with shit and insults hurled at her, had a pedophile beat some kids? Really?

I mean if Stannis isn't still alive, this is the weakest excuse I've ever seen.

Again, I don't believe them. Stannis is alive.

 

[Kain]

I prefer Stannis dead than D&D pissing on his character again like they've been doing since season 2.

 

[ZeroMaverick]

So the show has now caught up to the last book?

Just curious. I haven't read any of the books.

 

[Real Hero]

So the show has now caught up to the last book?

Just curious. I haven't read any of the books.

Mostly but its pretty different now

 

[ZeroMaverick]

Mostly but its pretty different now

Yeah, I figured. Thanks for the response.

 

[SpaceHorror]

Honestly, despite my criticism of Stannis' plot for most of this season and how ridiculous the execution of Brienne's revenge was.

I'm glad she killed him (if he's dead) rather than fucking Ramsay flaying him or some shit. It was enough that D&D's favorite psychopath broke Stannis completely with TWENTY GOOD MEN. To have him then gleefully torture and flay him would have been unbearable, whether he deserves it for burning Shireen or not. I'm just sick of him getting the better of everyone no matter what.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Again, I don't believe them. Stannis is alive.

Yep.

This is like Jamie and Brienne all over again. The first time Brienne met Jamie she assumed everything she heard about Jamie, not know what really happened. And I don't think Brienne would be a person who would execute an injured combatant. She's too honorable

 

[Kain]

So the show has now caught up to the last book?

Just curious. I haven't read any of the books.

Any resemblance between the books and the show is pure coincidence.

 

[ZeroMaverick]

Any resemblance between the books and the show is pure coincidence.

I wonder how they'll handle next season if Martin isn't finished. Will they just take everything in a completely different direction?

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Should I be worried that kit Harington said definitely he's not coming back? And is in that tennis thing with Andy Samberg?

 

[Ratrat]

It would also mean not including him in trailers, keeping him away from pre season interviews, not attending special events and premieres.

Plus, as soon as he's sighted on set, we'll have to do a post on it at Watchers.

The ruse won't work.

What if... they already filmed his resurrection and they save it for a late season 6 episode?

 

[Kain]

I wonder how they'll handle next season if Martin isn't finished. Will they just take everything in a completely different direction?

If by different you mean wrong, yeah, sure.

 

[Massa]

Again, I don't believe them. Stannis is alive.

There's no point in keeping him alive, what would he do? "Do your duty" was a great line specifically because Stannis failed to do that by falling into Melisandre's magic. He's done.

 

[Chococat]

Remember when people thought Shireen having greyscale was going to turn out to be significant? Back when there were still Baratheons in Westeros?

I later came to the conclusion that Shireen's version of Greyscale was just there to introduce the reader early on to the concept. The real outbreak is going to come from Jon Connington.

 

[Faddy]

So that interview seems to confirm that Stannis is dead for good, but Jon is soon to be resurrected?

After reading it I am more convinced that Stannis is alive. I thought it was for the best he was dead with his plot of taking the throne over, he was not the chosen one.

However I think there is a newly created opening at the Wall for someone who values doing their duty. Maybe fanfiction wishes but Stannis as the next Lord Commander, holding the Wall against the White Walkers would be amazing. He would be doing some serious atonement.

 

[Jayof9s]

So the show has now caught up to the last book?

Just curious. I haven't read any of the books.

Pretty much.

There are a few plot lines that are so different it's almost impossible to judge the progress but it seems unlikely they will incorporate much/any of the book material due to the way things have changed (Sansa, Brienne, Jamie, Dorne)

A few characters have 1-2 chapters of material left (Theon, Arya, Sam)

And there are other plots that have been dropped entirely, most of which have little/no chance of appearing at this point but some that will likely be developed further.

And they seem to be ahead in at least one plot area (Stannis)

Anything else ended more or less the same as the books.

 

[Burt]

Should I be worried that kit Harington said definitely he's not coming back? And is in that tennis thing with Andy Samberg?

Nah. The tennis thing is a movie that's probably already shot. He did Pompeii during GoT too.

The lying is so pervasive in every single one of these interviews that it has to be a coordinated effort. Whaddya know, they're struggling with subtlety.

 

[Mr Git]

Pretty sure Dorne will just be completely forgotten next series. They couldn't even be bothered labelling it properly in the opening sequence - Sunspear is just labelled 'Dorne'.

 

[foxtrot3d]

There's no point in keeping him alive, what would he do? "Do your duty" was a great line specifically because Stannis failed to do that by falling into Melisandre's magic. He's done.

Dunno, I wish they did kill him after ruining his character but he's clearly alive. The "do your duty" line obviously made Brienne remember she has a duty to save Sansa.

 

[eot]

So for other storylines next year...

You forgot about LF. He promised he'd take Vale troops up north.

So the show has now caught up to the last book?

Just curious. I haven't read any of the books.

Yes, but it looks like some of the storylines and characters they didn't include will appear next season with their book4/5 material.

 

[Jayof9s]

Dunno, I wish they did kill him after ruining his character but he's clearly alive. The "do your duty" line obviously made Brienne remember she has a duty to save Sansa.

The question is... what purpose in the story does Stannis have without an army or any support? Honestly, I don't see any way for him to add more to the story if he is alive. Help clear Brienne's name? No one cares who killed Renly at this point.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Dunno, I wish they did kill him after ruining his character but he's clearly alive. The "do your duty" line obviously made Brienne remember she has a duty to save Sansa.

They join forces to rescue sansa. He gives up his conquest for the crown. Tries for redemption.

 

[Faddy]

Nah. The tennis thing is a movie that's probably already shot. He did Pompeii during GoT too.

The lying is so pervasive in every single one of these interviews that it has to be a coordinated effort. Whaddya know, they're struggling with subtlety.

I don't think they are trying to be subtle. There is no real way to be subtle about this. They need their ruse to last a month or two at the most. For people to have gotten the emotional impact of the finale and the possibility that Jon might be dead.

Remember the tens of millions of worldwide viewers aren't necessarily as obsessive as you or I. They may read about the show in the aftermath but they won't be looking at casting and set leaks.

 

[Woody Invincible]

Girlfriend hated Stannis all the way up to the finale, but hopes he is alive after episode 10. She now understands that he was just a man convinced that the fate of the world depended on him, and his willingness to sacrifice his own daughter for the greater good was a sign of his commitment.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Dunno, I wish they did kill him after ruining his character but he's clearly alive. The "do your duty" line obviously made Brienne remember she has a duty to save Sansa.

I don't think Brienne is about killing a defenseless person either. I'm sure she wants to kill Stannis to avenge Renly, but not like that.

 

[ToyMachine228]

After reading it I am more convinced that Stannis is alive. I thought it was for the best he was dead with his plot of taking the throne over, he was not the chosen one.

However I think there is a newly created opening at the Wall for someone who values doing their duty. Maybe fanfiction wishes but Stannis as the next Lord Commander, holding the Wall against the White Walkers would be amazing. He would be doing some serious atonement.

This. I've said it several times in this thread as well. Stannis has the perfect personality to lead the Night's Watch and already has a history with them. With no family left and his hopes of the throne smashed, he will do the only thing left to do. Take the black and quickly become Lord Commander. They will respect him as he literally saved them against the Wildlings and has the iron will to make that lot follow him. I think that his scene with Sam this season where he told Sam to keep reading about the White Walkers was the planting of the seed that Stannis will be back at the wall and be fighting against the White Walkers. Maybe he'll even die in that role, but it would at least give him a more fitting death.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Dunno man. Wouldn't the NW be in danger for taking in Stannis? The Boltons are immune to rules

My guess would be Brienne needing a more experienced and more reliable pair of hands since Pod is in no shape for that if they want to rescue/find Sansa

 

[dubq]

Who?

Superfans who believe they are bigger than the subject they are fans of.

I have just one question.

Was it Lena Headey during the walk of atonement, or a body double, with her face CGI'ed on? Really seemed that way. I know it was a body double during the part where she's getting washed and cut though, but what about the actual walk?

It was a body double with TERRIBLE CGI on the face. Half the time her face was looking in a different direction from her actual head.

 

[Ratrat]

So after deciding Brienne searching for Sansa was too boring, they are going to have Brienne search for Sansa with Ser Stannis Hunt and Pod. Only unknown to them, Sansa and Theon are out searching for Rickon in Skagos. I guess Ramsay will also be chasing Sansa and Reek...

Ugh, I can't imagine any way to salvage these storylines next season．

 

[eot]

So after deciding Brienne searching for Sansa was too boring, they are going to have Brienne search for Sansa with Ser Stannis Hunt and Pod.

It wasn't just boring, it was frustrating. The reader knew where Sansa was the entire time, and that Brienne had no chance of finding her. It was like someone being lost in the woods for an entire book.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Series high viewership for the finale

Sunday’s finale attracted a series-high 8.1 million viewers, according to TVBytheNumbers. That trumps the Season 5 premiere’s then-record breaking 8 million viewers. It’s also up 1 million viewers versus the Season 4 finale (7.1 million).

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I don't think Brienne is about killing a defenseless person either. I'm sure she wants to kill Stannis to avenge Renly, but not like that.

Brienne in the novels wasn't so keen on killing either. This one was like fuck the police

 

[Speevy]

If Jon were dead the night's watch story would be over, since no one wants to watch Aliser Thorne fail at wildling politics and the only thing left is for the whitewalkers to take over.

 

[Kaladin]

Series high viewership for the finale

Death and sorrow = high ratings

Expect double next season.

 

[Speevy]

Series high critic reviews for the episodes too.


Have book readers lost the plot or have D and D? A question for our time.

 

[TRios Zen]

Of the Stark Children:

Rob - dead
Jon (maybe not a Stark) - dead, but potentially resurrected by the Lord of Light - thus becoming less than he was.
Sansa - helpless AND a pawn of the man who conspired to kill her father.
Rickon - unable to walk, but learning some new skills
Arya - becoming not-a-stark (at least, that is where the House of B&W wants her)
Bran - MIA (seriously I'm not even sure I remember where Bran is in the books?).

Seems like a lot of the Stark-iness in Westeros is disappearing, huh?

IF Stannis is dead, all the Stags are gone now, so sorry House Barantheon, you played the GOT, and lost.

 

[Faddy]

Series high critic reviews for the episodes too.


Have book readers lost the plot or have D and D? A question for our time.

whynotboth.jpg

Mereen is much better.
Arya is slightly worse although not by much because some of the stuff in the HoBaW was mind blowingly awesome, other stuff tedious.
Cersei was note for note from the book
The Wall almost the same as the books

No Sansa sitting around doing nothing, no Brienne on her quest to nowhere.

The Winterfell plot could have been better paced but on the whole I thought it was pretty decent, it really captured the horror from the books.

Stannis could have been better, again pacing is an issue but I had no problem with him burning Shireen. Lets not kid ourselves, the man was a fanatic and would do anything to fulfill what he thought was his destiny.

Dorne was blah but it ended in an interesting place. At least it won't be five years of Vengeance, Justic. Fire and Blood then LOL Quentyn. Plus Tyene was a major plus. For all the supposed sexposition of the show most of the sexual scene were troubling to say the least. A severe lack of light hearted breast exposure this season.

Jaime was wasted in both aFfC and the show so whatever. I hope he has something better next year.

 

[Crisco]

You guys really need to get over Stannis lol. His arc is complete, it was never going to end any other way. If anything his situation in the books is way more desperate than on the show. He's going to die in the North, one way or another.

Jon Snow is also dead, but Jon Stark/Targaryen or Azor Ahai is alive and well

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Of the Stark Children:

Rob - dead
Jon (maybe not a Stark) - dead, but potentially resurrected by the Lord of Light - thus becoming less than he was.
Sansa - helpless AND a pawn of the man who conspired to kill her father.
Rickon - unable to walk, but learning some new skills
Arya - becoming not-a-stark (at least, that is where the House of B&W wants her)
Bran - MIA (seriously I'm not even sure I remember where Bran is in the books?).

Seems like a lot of the Stark-iness in Westeros is disappearing, huh?

IF Stannis is dead, all the Stags are gone now, so sorry House Barantheon, you played the GOT, and lost.

GRRM hates the Starks pretty much.