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[sir_kevith]

When you say jailbars, do you just mean huge scanlines? I thought that was considered a plus around here, haha. Picture seems pretty nice to me at least.

I didn't even consider the power supply could be an issue...I'm using the standard Genesis 2 power supply I believe. Could that be why the carts work perfectly but CD's are acting up? I tried booting up Sonic CD, and was making these loud screeching/scratching sounds, it takes forever to load, and keeps skipping cutscenes. The disc is in fine condition. I then tried playing Rebel Assault, and it just keeps getting stuck on the "checking disc" screen.

The jailbars are kind of at an angle on the pic but they run vertically down the screen. You can notice them in that guy's blue hair there and in the sky.

I think your CD drive sounds good if it's able to read discs still. I would take some compressed air and blast at the lens a bit and maybe some rubbing alcohol on a swab and clean the lens. I'd also definitely try tracking down a correct power supply too.

Looks like the CDX power supply is rated for 1.5 amps while a Genesis 2 is rated for 0.85. The CD drive might not be getting enough power to get a strong read.

 

[Friend of Sonic]

This is horribly off topic but does anyone know of any fix I could try for discs that can't be read? I tried getting them resurfaced a couple of times, but no dice. I've read about goofy solutions (brasso, peanut butter, car polisher) but are any of those methods superior to a resurfacing machine?

 

[televator]

those of you who don't dig scanlines...try em for certain games/systems, you might come around in some examples. me, i love arcade stuff with em on, for one.

I tend to stick to the 240p = scan lines rule. Even in 3d games, there are 2d elements like HUD and menus that tend to look good with scan lines.

 

[baphomet]

This is horribly off topic but does anyone know of any fix I could try for discs that can't be read? I tried getting them resurfaced a couple of times, but no dice. I've read about goofy solutions (brasso, peanut butter, car polisher) but are any of those methods superior to a resurfacing machine?

Professional resurfacing is pretty much the last resort. If it doesn't work there's not much else to do.

 

[Mercutio]

Gentlemen.

More PC Engine in RGB.

Look what you did, Baphomet. Look what you made possible.

 

[baphomet]

Looks great! I absolutely love the pce looks in RGB.

Also, basically all PC engines output some amount of jailbars in RGB. Yours are either so miniscule they're basically invisible, or there aren't any.

 

[GayForMaster]

Gentlemen.

More PC Engine in RGB.

Look what you did, Baphomet. Look what you made possible.

Man, nice photos. You're capturing how amazing it looks and I bet even that isn't what it looks like in real life.

 

[Friend of Sonic]

Professional resurfacing is pretty much the last resort. If it doesn't work there's not much else to do.

That is what I figured. Sad one of these is Disc 1 to Valkyrie Profile for PS1 but ah well, what are you going to do. Stuff happens

 

[Mercutio]

Looks great! I absolutely love the pce looks in RGB.

Also, basically all PC engines output some amount of jailbars in RGB. Yours are either so miniscule they're basically invisible, or there aren't any.

They aren't visible as far as I can tell, even in older games that use much larger areas of one color. The PCE is kind of incredible... You go from the early stuff like Dragon Spirit and Kato & Ken to Sapphire, Dracula X, and Bomberman 94. It's night and day; looks like two different systems.

 

[Ban Puncher]

800 lines vs 600 lines.

Who wins?

 

[baphomet]

800 lines vs 600 lines.

Who wins?

800 for sure.

 

[Huggers]

800 lines vs 600 lines.

Who wins?

800 by an immeasurable distance. Well 200 lines

 

[theSlacker]

Well I have heard people claim that they prefer lower, more standard TV like, amount of lines for some systems, like the n64, but I haven't ever tested out the differences side by side.

 

[Mercutio]

Man, nice photos. You're capturing how amazing it looks and I bet even that isn't what it looks like in real life.

They're definitely not as crisp in photos as they seem on the screen.

 

[Peltz]

I tend to stick to the 240p = scan lines rule. Even in 3d games, there are 2d elements like HUD and menus that tend to look good with scan lines.

3d elements look better too. Scanlines make the edges of polygons look less jaggy.

 

[Mercutio]

3d elements look better too. Scanlines make the edges of polygons look less jaggy.

Huh. I hadn't thought of using Scanlines to ease jaggy 3D. That might be better to me than without.

 

[Laws00]

I've actually tried these cables: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=114&cp_id=11404&cs_id=1140401&p_id=5689&seq=1&format=2

They are Monoprice brand, and are actually very close to the official cables in terms of video quality. Unfortunately, they are sold out at the moment, but are set to restock on 5/15/15

thank you. i bought the mono price cables.

 

[televator]

3d elements look better too. Scanlines make the edges of polygons look less jaggy.

Yeh, das tru too.

 

[BONKERS]

3d elements look better too. Scanlines make the edges of polygons look less jaggy.

I have to disagree with this. But to each his own.

 

[D.Lo]

I mean, it's the 20th discussion about it in this thread, but it isn't even about what you think looks good, it's what looks actually correct.

240p games were designed on and designed to be displayed on monitors that showed blank scaliness. Even if you prefer the flat emulated look, scaliness are the real, correct look. Good 240p pixel artists took the idiosyncrasies of blank scanlines into account with their designs, and their graphics often look incorrect without them, particularly curves and shadows.

Technically yes the argument extends to display connections as well. For consoles that only supported composite, the graphics were designed for composite. The NES is the only major example of a true composite console. In reality the only change in going RGB is clarity, and there were RGB/Svideo NES models, so it's much less of an 'incorrect' image than a no-scanlines image.

Now emulated scaliness is a somewhat murkier subject, since they're an overlay rather than a natural part of an image. They don't have the uneven nature of real scaliness, and if you go pure black you end up with a 'venetian blind' look.

I make my own fake scaliness in photoshop for screenshots on my blog. I scale the native emulator shots to 640x480 then use a semi-transparent overlay. It's tricky with screenshots, and I have to make the overlay lighter, because depending on browser zoom the browser could scale them badly, resulting in an ugly moire pattern. You might see it with the middle one below:

This is effectively what the Framemesiter does as well. It's more subtle with NES game since they're quite blocky, but it makes rounder surfaces and generally makes non-square things appear more natural.

 

[BONKERS]

I mean, it's the 20th discussion about it in this thread, but it isn't even about what you think looks good, it's what looks actually correct.

240p games were designed on and designed to be displayed on monitors that showed blank scaliness. Even if you prefer the flat emulated look, scaliness are the real, correct look. Good 240p pixel artists took the idiosyncrasies of blank scanlines into account with their designs, and their graphics often look incorrect without them, particularly curves and shadows.

Technically yes the argument extends to display connections as well. For consoles that only supported composite, the graphics were designed for composite. The NES is the only major example of a true composite console. In reality the only change in going RGB is clarity, and there were RGB/Svideo NES models, so it's much less of an 'incorrect' image than a no-scanlines image.

Now emulated scaliness is a somewhat murkier subject, since they're an overlay rather than a natural part of an image. They don't have the uneven nature of real scaliness, and if you go pure black you end up with a 'venetian blind' look.

I make my own fake scaliness in photoshop for screenshots on my blog. I scale the native emulator shots to 640x480 then use a semi-transparent overlay. It's tricky with screenshots, and I have to make the overlay lighter, because depending on browser zoom the browser could scale them badly, resulting in an ugly moire pattern. You might see it with the middle one below:

This is effectively what the Framemesiter does as well. It's more subtle with NES game since they're quite blocky, but it makes rounder surfaces and generally makes non-square things appear more natural.

It's not about what's correct, simply whether scanlines make aliasing less apparent. Which is what he mentioned and that I disagreed with (Nothing to do with 240p.). Low res 3D still looks aliased and "Jaggy" even at 240p on a CRT.

I think you misread my comment is all.

 

[D.Lo]

It's not about what's correct, simply whether scanlines make aliasing less apparent. Which is what he mentioned and that I disagreed with (Nothing to do with 240p.). Low res 3D still looks aliased and "Jaggy" even at 240p on a CRT.

I think you misread my comment is all.

Wasn't a direct reply to you, just adding to the general discussion over the last couple of pages.

Yep 3D 240p still looks jaggy with scanlines, but less so IMO. They were still designed to be viewed with scaliness, but it's not as clear an argument as the one I was making about 2D 240p art design.

 

[BocoDragon]

Has anyone tried to use PS1 classics on PS3 through the Framemeister + scanlines?

I've increasingly turned to PSN for games which I think I will never own physically (i.e. Tron Bonne or Suikoden II), but yes these games (especially 2D ones) really need scanlines imo!!

Does this work?

And how should I set it up? I don't want to just run the PS3 through the Framemeister for modern games. Maybe I could get an HDMI splitter and run one to the TV and the other to one of those wasted HDMI inputs on the Framemeister. Or maybe I could connect a component cable instead? How does PS3 behave with HDMI and component hooked up at the same time?

 

[Peagles]

You call that a SCART cable? This, is a SCART cable!

Spoiler

/Aussie accent

Compared to previous winner of the "super thick" SCART cable award, lol.

 

[Khaz]

That's what I call a Scart cable! People complaining with buzzing sound never had a cable that thick!



Consoles need a Scart saviour, there are only cheap thin Scart cables out there now.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Has anyone tried to use PS1 classics on PS3 through the Framemeister + scanlines?

I've increasingly turned to PSN for games which I think I will never own physically (i.e. Tron Bonne or Suikoden II), but yes these games (especially 2D ones) really need scanlines imo!!

Does this work?

And how should I set it up? I don't want to just run the PS3 through the Framemeister for modern games. Maybe I could get an HDMI splitter and run one to the TV and the other to one of those wasted HDMI inputs on the Framemeister. Or maybe I could connect a component cable instead? How does PS3 behave with HDMI and component hooked up at the same time?

I asked this a page or two ago. I was told not to bother. Latency etc

re scart cables this is what I'm using

beef!

 

[Huggers]

Currently rocking this bad boy. Pretty decent

 

[speedlolita]

That's what I call a Scart cable! People complaining with buzzing sound never had a cable that thick!



Consoles need a Scart saviour, there are only cheap thin Scart cables out there now.

Those SCART cables are only thick because they're wired for all 21 pins. Of course, consoles need around half that.

I have official SCART cables for Mega Drive, Saturn (both revisions of cable), PlayStation, Dreamcast, Xbox, PlayStation 2 and GameCube and only the Sony cables are even close to being as thick as a fully wired SCART cable.

 

[Charles Brandon]

scart cable girth pissing contest lol

 

[Huggers]

scart cable girth pissing contest lol

Hahaha. Thread highlight imo

 

[theSlacker]

You call that a SCART cable? This, is a SCART cable!

Spoiler

/Aussie accent

Compared to previous winner of the "super thick" SCART cable award, lol.

Are you absolutely sure that that isn't a snake disguised as a scart cable? That's how they get ya.

 

[IrishNinja]

scart cable girth pissing contest lol

it took a while, but we're finally here~

 

[Timu]

scart cable girth pissing contest lol

"My cable is bigger than yours" is what I got from this, lol.

 

[Peagles]

Those SCART cables are only thick because they're wired for all 21 pins. Of course, consoles need around half that.

I have official SCART cables for Mega Drive, Saturn (both revisions of cable), PlayStation, Dreamcast, Xbox, PlayStation 2 and GameCube and only the Sony cables are even close to being as thick as a fully wired SCART cable.

Yes, but I think that's only one element. The two compared in my photo above are both wired for 21 pins but there's still quite a difference in thickness between them.

 

[Bancho]

Gentlemen.

More PC Engine in RGB.

Look what you did, Baphomet. Look what you made possible.

Looks great! The PC engine looks fantastic in RGB. I remember doing my Core GFX and trying Side Arms and thinking man that picture is fantastic.

 

[speedlolita]

Yes, but I think that's only one element. The two compared in my photo above are both wired for 21 pins but there's still quite a difference in thickness between them.

Well of course, the thicker one will have more/better shielding. It also has an apparently superfluous braided sleeve too.

 

[Peagles]

Well of course, the thicker one will have more/better shielding. It also has an apparently superfluous braided sleeve too.

Yep, and better shielding is exactly what people are wanting in their console cables, official or otherwise. That's what Khaz was trying to get across.

 

[GayForMaster]

Anyone here with Viletim RGB on their nes? The picture is damn perfect but I'm getting a lot of shaking on my pvm. Mario Bros 3 and a few other games had a bit of shaking but it seemed to fix by adjusting the cart, however kirby's adventure was consistently shaky.

 

[RedFyn]

Hopefully this is the right place to ask. I'm looking for a cheap composite switcher (4-5 ports preferably although I'm sure I could find uses for more) with the cords all plugging into the back. I've found a few but they're pretty bulky and was wondering if there were any recommended ones.

 

[Peagles]

Anyone here with Viletim RGB on their nes? The picture is damn perfect but I'm getting a lot of shaking on my pvm. Mario Bros 3 and a few other games had a bit of shaking but it seemed to fix by adjusting the cart, however kirby's adventure was consistently shaky.

I have a Viletim board in mine but I've not seen any shaking, even mid-install when I was testing. What exactly does it look like?

 

[BONKERS]

Anyone here with Viletim RGB on their nes? The picture is damn perfect but I'm getting a lot of shaking on my pvm. Mario Bros 3 and a few other games had a bit of shaking but it seemed to fix by adjusting the cart, however kirby's adventure was consistently shaky.

Sounds like a sync issue. Perhaps the cable or how you have sync wired to output.

 

[missile]

I mean, it's the 20th discussion about it in this thread, but it isn't even about what you think looks good, it's what looks actually correct.

240p games were designed on and designed to be displayed on monitors that showed blank scaliness. Even if you prefer the flat emulated look, scaliness are the real, correct look. Good 240p pixel artists took the idiosyncrasies of blank scanlines into account with their designs, and their graphics often look incorrect without them, particularly curves and shadows.

Technically yes the argument extends to display connections as well. For consoles that only supported composite, the graphics were designed for composite. The NES is the only major example of a true composite console. In reality the only change in going RGB is clarity, and there were RGB/Svideo NES models, so it's much less of an 'incorrect' image than a no-scanlines image.

Now emulated scaliness is a somewhat murkier subject, since they're an overlay rather than a natural part of an image. They don't have the uneven nature of real scaliness, and if you go pure black you end up with a 'venetian blind' look.

I make my own fake scaliness in photoshop for screenshots on my blog. I scale the native emulator shots to 640x480 then use a semi-transparent overlay. It's tricky with screenshots, and I have to make the overlay lighter, because depending on browser zoom the browser could scale them badly, resulting in an ugly moire pattern. You might see it with the middle one below:

This is effectively what the Framemesiter does as well. It's more subtle with NES game since they're quite blocky, but it makes rounder surfaces and generally makes non-square things appear more natural.

Scanlines indeed can lessen the aliasing of 2d/3d to some degree because
your eye interpolates between the lines and as such soften the sharp peaks of
the edges to some degree. But you may introduce new aliasing due to the
scanlines. However, once there is alias in a picture it will stay forever.
There is no way to remove aliasing once introduce unless you have the
original source. But we can make aliasing less appeared to the eye by using
special sampling/screening patterns. Different story.

 

[GayForMaster]

I have a Viletim board in mine but I've not seen any shaking, even mid-install when I was testing. What exactly does it look like?

Sounds like a sync issue. Perhaps the cable or how you have sync wired to output.

It also blacks out a few times in addition to the screen shaking, so it could be a sync issue like BONKERS said? As for what it looks like, it just has either severe shaking like Kirby's Adventure or for a bunch of other games I tested there is brief yet subtle shaking. I tried my SNES and none of this happens. If possible, could you both tell me which SCART you're using for your viletim NES?

I'm using this:

+ an SNES rgb cable bought from the UK gaming cables site. It worked perfectly on my Playchoice NES that I used to have, and it also works on my snes/64.

 

[Laws00]

omg the mono component cables for wii are soooooooooooooooooooooo god damn good.

its not blurry bullshit composite.

even on my 40 inch tv i can fucking tell. im going to put my old Polaroid 19inch tv to see or my moms Toshiba 19 inch. on a smaller screen

but i'm living

I'M FUCKING LIVING

Seeing Rondo of Blood, Gradius rebirth and 2. Holy shit

i want to test out the wide screen but i think i might not like it

 

[megamanfan1500]

omg the mono component cables for wii are soooooooooooooooooooooo god damn good.

its not blurry bullshit composite.

even on my 40 inch tv i can fucking tell. im going to put my old Polaroid 19inch tv to see or my moms Toshiba 19 inch. on a smaller screen

but i'm living

I'M FUCKING LIVING

Seeing Rondo of Blood, Gradius rebirth and 2. Holy shit

i want to test out the wide screen but i think i might not like it

Happy to hear it! I actually own the Nintendo brand Wii component cables as well, and the difference between it and monoprice are marginal at best. Besides, for the price and quality, you really can't beat monoprice cables. Happy gaming!

 

[baphomet]

It also blacks out a few times in addition to the screen shaking, so it could be a sync issue like BONKERS said? As for what it looks like, it just has either severe shaking like Kirby's Adventure or for a bunch of other games I tested there is brief yet subtle shaking. I tried my SNES and none of this happens. If possible, could you both tell me which SCART you're using for your viletim NES?

I'm using this:

+ an SNES rgb cable bought from the UK gaming cables site. It worked perfectly on my Playchoice NES that I used to have, and it also works on my snes/64.

It may be worth a shot to check and see if changing the sync signal to csync, luma, or lastly composite video to see if that changes anything. Depends on what type of cable youre using from the nes though, as some can already be wired for all of those.

 

[GayForMaster]

It may be worth a shot to check and see if changing the sync signal to csync, luma, or lastly composite video to see if that changes anything. Depends on what type of cable youre using from the nes though, as some can already be wired for all of those.

I think the cable I'm using is "luma" sync. So I should buy a csync and composite sync scart cable?

Edit: I see this http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Super-Ninten...620?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item259d05bfb4

Maybe the right cable to get since it says "For NES RGB" in the description?

 

[BONKERS]

That cable is wired for composite video for sync, so it may or may not fix the issue. (Also depending on what you have wired up for sync with the NESRGB >
You can have CSYNC wired up for sync,Luma(I'm not sure exactly on this one), Composite video for sync encoded from the NESRGB or the original Composite video (Which is also provided on the bard)



But also: You have to have the NESRGB wired to a custom AV socket that matches the SNES/N64/GCN with that cable.
Like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tn0cwSjLN8


I would open up your NES first and find out what you actually have wired up for Sync.
And whether say Luma/Chroma are wired to the DIN socket as well.

If your current cable is wired for luma sync, it may just be a matter of wiring in Luma to match the right pin I think

 

[speedlolita]

On the AV Famicom I modded, I cut the trace for composite video to that pin and wired up luma. Worked great with a regular cable.

 

[Ivan Amiibo]

is there any way to get scanlines to look right on a twitch stream with a xrgb mini? It looks great on my tv and like crap on the stream.