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[Alucrid]

Come on - you know very well that he doesn't believe those things in the way you have contextualized them.

In terms of No LGBT Rights - I don't agree with his stance on same sex marriage. But I haven't ever agreed with 100% of a politicians policies. I doubt that I am in the minority.

Its the same way that I think Hillary's stance on raising the national minimum wage is a bad idea but I will still be voting for her.

ok. how do you feel about his support of conversion therapy? or the fact that he views gay marriage as a societal collapse? or that he opposed a law that would prohibit discrimination against LGBT people in the workplace? or that he opposed the repeal of don't ask don't tell?

http://time.com/4406337/mike-pence-gay-rights-lgbt-religious-freedom/

 

[Jeffrey]

So all i got from this debate is that im 70% sure if Trump wins presidency... he's gonna get into an 'accident' and Pence will be made president.

Something about Pence... those eyes, are of a zodiac killer.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Im disappointed Tim interrupted so much, it hurt the message a bit, the message being facts of course, but like i say in the glorious information age facts mean jack fucking shit. the future has already been filmed in one of those depressing sci-fi movies youve seen before.

 

[QuantumZebra]

oh my god

https://twitter.com/fart/status/783456340920315904

 

[Toxi]

He'll paint it as party loyalty. He personally never advocated a lot of Trump's stances and he just positioned himself as the Conservative Champion the far right wanted all along.

Even if he does, if Trump loses bad, that stink is not gonna leave.

 

[RDreamer]

Sad that "composure" matters more to some people than the substance of what they are saying

That's the reason people seemed to slob all over Jon Huntsman when he was in.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Pence looked calm cool and collected, kaine looked like a kid, throwing insults all day, and interrupting.

Which makes the irony of who runs for who especially funny.

Pence wins by default imo

Which is why it hurts his ticket more than Clinton's. Pence offered no to very little defense of Trump, who is on the top of the ticket. Made Trump look even more crazy by extension.

 

[kcp12304]

CNN/ORC

Pence: 48
Kaine 42

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Come on - you know very well that he doesn't believe those things in the way you have contextualized them.

In terms of No LGBT Rights - I don't agree with his stance on same sex marriage. But I haven't ever agreed with 100% of a politicians policies. I doubt that I am in the minority.

Its the same way that I think Hillary's stance on raising the national minimum wage is a bad idea but I will still be voting for her.

No, it's not the "same way". His stance of LGBT rights is legit evil. Having a different opinion on min. wage doesn't remotely compare.

 

[Capella]

Trump was on trial tonight. Especially after his meltdown at the first debate.

Kaine was Prosecutor. He called Pence as a character witness.

Maybe Kaine went a bit HAM on the witness, but did Pence's testimony sway the Jury?

That's the ultimate question. Pence was the better debater but I'm not sure he sold Trump, he may have just sold Pence. Any good he did tonight could be totally wiped out Sunday if the 2nd debate is a repeat of the first.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Even if he does, if Trump loses bad, that stink is not gonna leave.

Which is why I half suspect he is just a commentator for 2020 and comes back for a real run in 2024. After 8 years people forget a lot.

 

[DrForester]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/vi...p-debate-zingers-tim-kaine-mike-pence-n660041

1. Pence: "You whipped out that Mexican thing again."

2. Kaine: "Why don't you trust women to make this choice? Why doesn't Donald trump trust women to make this choice for themselves?"

3. Kaine: "Putin is a dictator, not leader, anybody who thinks otherwise doesn't know Russian history."

4. Pence: "We can put cyber security first ... if we make sure the next secretary of state doesn't have a private server..."

5. Kaine: "Trump can't start a Twitter war with Miss Universe without shooting himself in the foot."

6. Kaine: "Trump has a personal Mt. Rushmore," including Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong Un and Saddam Hussein.

7. Pence: "I'll work with you when you go back to the Senate."

8. Kaine: "You can't have somebody at the top who demeans everybody he talks about."

9. Kaine: Pence was "chief cheerleader of the privatization" of the entitlement while he was a member of Congress.

10. Pence: Kaine and Clinton are running a campaign on an "avalanche of insults."

11. Kaine: "So it's smart not to pay for our military, it's smart not to pay for veterans, it's smart not to pay for teachers, I guess all of us who do pay for those things, I guess we're stupid."

12. Kaine: "'You're hired' president in Hillary Clinton or a 'you're fired' president in Donald Trump."

13. Pence: "Appreciated you're hired, you're fired thing, you use that a whole lot..."

14. Kaine: "You will look in vain" for an apology from Trump.

15. Kaine: "He's asking people to vote for somebody he cannot defend."

I think #11 should be #1. That was great.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Ok, I'm wrong for thinking CNN is leaning against Trump. I'm not arguing againts Clinton or shilling for Trump when I share my opinion that CNN, a media company, is sounding a narrative for a certain side more than another.

Just jump to your next conspiracy theory already. Your super biased CNN just showed 48% of viewers thought Pence won vs 42% of Kaine.

 

[EatinOlives]

CNN/ORC

Pence: 48
Kaine 42

Expected, people will focus on his demeanor as they wait for the media to unpack everything that was actually said over the course of the rest of the week.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

You don't win any type of debate if you lie the whole time.

This is America though.

 

[TS-08]

By far the most talked about aspect of the debate I'm seeing is how much Pence didn't defend Trump, and how this felt more like Pence putting himself over for 2020 than pushing the Trump/Pence ticket. That is terrible talking point for the campaign.

 

[fallingdove]

This shit boggles me. Pence is so extreme to the right that I wouldn't even expect Trump to embrace all of his policy positions.

Unless you're completely blind to substance, why would anyone think Pence is somehow more palatable?

You are saying he is less palatable than Trump? Wow.

That said, I value candidates that have conviction. I never said I would vote for Pence if he ran but I can appreciate someone that sticks to their principles instead of simply playing to the crowd.

 

[dabig2]

I think Kaine needed to interrupt and stay on attack. Otherwise he would have come off as weak. Pence looked like some kind of cartoon villain, and his chuckles came off bad. Also lies, lies, lies. Deny, deny, deny. There was no substance to anything he said. The only place I see him scoring any points are with religious folks for his views on abortion.

Yeah. Frankly, the job of a VP isn't merely to "win" his debate. It's to fend off attacks from the top of the ticket and to manipulate the narrative afterwards. Pence being more calm isn't going to be in the news for more than a night. That doesn't drive a news cycle. What does drive a news cycle are all the fact checks and soundbites and drama, and that's something Pence was utterly eviscerated on. And the drama comes from Pence running away from the top of his ticket whereas Kaine fully embraced his. That will receive most of the attention going forward after everyone wakes up tomorrow morning.

I already said this is reminding me of 2012 VP debate a bit, but it really reminds me of 2008. The narrative afterwards was that Palin beat Biden because she was competent enough not to shit on the floor and smiled throughout with her faux charm. Biden in comparison was more rigid and facts oriented and thus he lost. This VP debate won't move the needle any more to the Republicans than those VP debates did. In fact it will hurt them since at least Palin and Ryan actually were arguing positively in favor for their top of the ticket.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

CNN/ORC

Pence: 48
Kaine 42

I don't think a narrow win like this helps Trump at all. I expect the lasting, meaningful narrative from this debate to be Pence's inability to defend his running mate's buffoonery.

 

[Futureman]

I think Kaine shouldn't have attacked so hard against Trump on basically every question (especially the Iran/nuclear thing over and over), but I think he won considering Pence really couldn't defend Trump on the barrage of shit he's spewed so far.

Would be an interesting election if these two were running for President.

 

[rokkerkory]

You think Trump will be happy with Pence not defending him?

 

[Codeblue]

Can they point to these poll numbers after calling them worthless a week ago?

 

[Sean C]

CNN/ORC

Pence: 48
Kaine 42

I think that's probably about right. Pence's style advantage puts him ahead, but narrowly.

 

[danm999]

Pence did almost nothing to defend Trump. At times it seemed like he didn't even know who he was.

That'll help Pence in 2020, unlikely to help Trump in 2016 though.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Which is why I half suspect he is just a commentator for 2020 and comes back for a real run in 2024. After 8 years people forget a lot.

Does he really have success from that though? Huckabee tried it and dropped out after Iowa, a state he won in 2008. Will he even be remotely relevant in 2024? Will the Republicans even look like a Pence party then?

 

[eBay Huckster]

CNN/ORC

Pence: 48
Kaine 42

reminder that CNN/ORC had 2012 pegged at 48-44 Ryan

 

[Tobor]

Fact checking explosion over the next couple of days will offset. Polls won't move at all on this.

Meanwhile, Trump campaign stays on defensive.

 

[Y2Kev]

I think that's probably about right. Pence's style advantage puts him ahead, but narrowly.

agreed. Honestly not bad. Thought after the first fifteen we were headed for a disaster.

 

[Mass Effect]

In what universe is CNN left wing? It sure as shit ain't this one. MSNBC? Sure, but CNN? Come on, son.

The one where everything that isn't Fox News-levels of right-leaning is considered the "liberal media."

 

[Calamari41]

This was an A-B test by the Trump campaign to see how it would go over to more or less brush off any attacks on Trump for the next debate and ignore them. Hillary beat him because she was able to draw him into the quagmire of defending himself all night. It will be interesting to see how the strategy played with the swayable voters out there.

 

[EatinOlives]

I don't think a narrow win like this helps Trump at all. I expect the lasting, meaningful narrative from this debate to be Pence's inability to defend his running mate's buffoonery.

Exactly. This isn't the kind of short-lived victory that'll help Trump. All this did was make Pence look better, but not Trump.

Not to mention that the VP debates aren't anywhere near as popular as the presidential ones.

 

[Toxi]

CNN/ORC

Pence: 48
Kaine 42

For comparison, after the first Presidential Debate...

Clinton: 62
Trump: 27

 

[DrForester]

There won't be any memory of this debate since the 2nd Presidential Debate is only 5 days away.

 

[Futureman]

Pence did almost nothing to defend Trump. At times it seemed like he didn't even know who he was.

That'll help Pence in 2020, unlikely to help Trump in 2016 though.

I would say there were at least 5 times Kaine ripped Trump hard and Pence just said nothing and they moved on.

 

[eggandI]

Tens of millions of Americans do not mind that Mike Pence went up on TV and lied about things him and trump have literally been recorded saying. This country is fucked

 

[fallingdove]

No, it's not the "same way". His stance of LGBT rights is legit evil. Having a different opinion on min. wage doesn't remotely compare.

Not equating those policies - sorry you misunderstood.

I was simply illustrating that supporters typically don't support 100% of a candidates policies.

 

[ezrarh]

Tens of millions of Americans do not mind that Mike Pence went up on TV and lied about things him and trump have literally been recorded saying. This country is fucked

If I was a straight white male, I would go into sales and just lie my ass off and make a killing.

 

[Valhelm]

Fuck that bias out of here.

Tell me with a straight face that Donald Trump respects women, when he can't avoid commenting on their face, weight, or even bodily functions.

Tell me with a straight face that Trump respects minorities, when he called their communities Hellish, demanded death for innocent black men, and banned them from renting in his properties.

If you want to support this man, fine. But at least own up to his history of childishness and bigotry.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

CNN/ORC

Pence: 48
Kaine 42

Sounds about right

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

Tens of millions of Americans do not mind that Mike Pence went up on TV and lied about things him and trump have literally been recorded saying. This country is fucked

But but Kaine was being rude interupting the nice Saten looking fellow on the TV.

 

[Alucrid]

Tell me with a straight face that Donald Trump respects women, when he can't avoid commenting on their face, weight, or even bodily functions.

Tell me with a straight face that Trump respects minorities, when he called their communities Hellish, demanded death for innocent black men, and banned them from renting in his properties.

If you want to support this man, fine. But at least own up to his history of childishness and bigotry.

i'm like 90% sure he was joking

 

[Fat4all]

Not equating those policies - sorry you misunderstood.

I was simply illustrating that supporters typically don't support 100% of a candidates policies.

they are still choosing them to represent them, all their baggage included.

 

[HylianTom]

There won't be any memory of this debate since the 2nd Presidential Debate is only 5 days away.

Especially with a hurricane potentially making landfall in the next 72 hours.

 

[QuantumZebra]

By far the most talked about aspect of the debate I'm seeing is how much Pence didn't defend Trump, and how this felt more like Pence putting himself over for 2020 than pushing the Trump/Pence ticket. That is terrible talking point for the campaign.

Again I think Clinton used Kaine like a guided weapon. This wasn't about Kaine "winning" a debate... it was about him systematically dismantling Trump on a national stage in front of someone who straight up couldn't defend his boss.

It was genius if it plays out in the media.

 

[Monocle]

I think media should remain as unbiased as possible actually.

Yeah they should be totally neutral about a documented racist and fascist who advocates war crimes, has a dangerously weak grasp of foreign policy, promotes conspiracy theories, has nothing but nice things to say about an unscrupulous dictator, and bases one of the major selling points of his campaign (his supposed business expertise) on outright lies about his past and our economy. And that's a tiny sample of his bullshit.

Are you serious right now? The only place where neutrality is always the answer is a fantasy world where everything is true and all opinions are valid.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Not equating those policies - sorry you misunderstood.

I was simply illustrating that supporters typically don't support 100% of a candidates policies.

The point is that just one policy makes the candidate indefensible. (not that he's not terrible everywhere else as well)

 

[B-Dubs]

Tell me with a straight face that Donald Trump respects women, when he can't avoid commenting on their face, weight, or even bodily functions.

Tell me with a straight face that Trump respects minorities, when he called their communities Hellish, demanded death for innocent black men, and banned them from renting in his properties.

If you want to support this man, fine. But at least own up to his history of childishness and bigotry.

Damn dude, go easy on him why don't ya

 

[Valhelm]

i'm like 90% sure he was joking

Maaaybe, couldn't tell if this post was satire or not

Clinton News Network

Not belliebing their lies.

Pence won, plain and simple. Just ask the few delusional folks here.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Democrats need to lay off the Trump/Putin lovefest. It makes them sound as crazy as Trump saying "30,000 emails" every 5 minutes.

I'm a bit late here, but there is no universe in which a Presidential Candidate of either party should be cozying up to Russia and Putin. Furthermore, as voters, there's no universe in which we should be okay with it.

This should be a position that's non-partisan, but conservatives have been verbally sucking Putin off for a few years now, so...

 

[optimiss]

I think that's probably about right. Pence's style advantage puts him ahead, but narrowly.

You are probably right but why the fuck do people place more importance on style than substance? It boggles the mind.