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[Reiko]

You're actually going to reference a game they farmed out to some unknown Japanese port shop, with a broken website, as your proof? Classy.

Ninja Gaiden 2 Sigma: Removes alpha heavy effects for better performance. (An entire chapter was neutered)
Red Dead Redemption: Removes alpha heavy grass for better performance
Mafia 2: Removes alpha heavy grass for better performance

Shall I continue?

If Sony pumped as much bandwidth in the PS3 as the PS2, none of these issues would be a problem.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

When they do reveal the consoles how open are we expecting them to be about the specs?

 

[bigboss370]

When they do reveal the consoles how open are we expecting them to be about the specs?

as open as they were when they revealed new consoles last time.

 

[systemfehler]

The only chance for Sony to release a significantly underpowered PS4 compared to the 720 has already passed. Weaker specs, low price and a early release "yesterday" could have been a valid strategy - but head on head launch and being number 3 in power, time and cost (since MS can nearly match any price Sony comes up with) sounds like they want to go out of business.

 

[mrklaw]

Forgive me for this intrusion that gives the same vibe a girl stepping in in the middle of some dudes' fight generally sends, but is it really that essential the PS4 ends up as powerfull as the next Xbox?
Sony can not compete with Microsoft cost wise, nor should they attemp to, imo. They need to find a good balance between performance, affordability and ease of use, a thing they've been oblivious too since the PS one (I'm putting Vita aside and limitin myself to home consoles space); their architectures have been roughly conceived, namely CPU centric, instead of them concentrating on offering a well rounded up machine...

Is gets brought up again and again.

Neither company can afford to break the bank other next machine. Sony, because they have financial pressures generally. MS, because the entertainment division doesn't make a huge amount of money and so massive investment/losses MIT not be signed off. Just because the overall company is highly profitable doesn't mean they are in an easier situation

And MS are potentially more likely to be distracted by trying to own the living room too quickly, or pushing a windows 8 agenda rather than focusing on gaming and let the rest come naturally which IMO Sony are more likely to do.



As for ram, I hope Sony don't just slap another separate bank of ram in at the last minute, it really needs to be integrated. But if they have made changes then i guess fast GDDR5 is out of the question for both machines due to board complexity? Unless they go for 1-2GB of that plus a bunch of slower ram for OS and cache.

 

[iamshadowlark]

When they do reveal the consoles how open are we expecting them to be about the specs?

Sony was pretty open last time when they revealed PS3, but then again, they were really trying to sell the system purely on the specs and what the box could do. I don't think they take that route again.

 

[H_Prestige]

Sony was pretty open last time when they revealed PS3, but then again, they were really trying to sell the system purely on the specs and what the box could do. I don't think they take that route again.

They revealed most of the Vita's specs when they unveiled it. It probably won't be like the ps3, but they're not going to be like nintendo.

 

[Averon]

I see no reason why MS or Sony would be shy to release Orbis and Durango's specs. Unless they go the Wii/Wii U route, that is.

 

[mr_nothin]

You're right. That's why it's not third party.


Planetside 2.

I do tend to remember Higby, the creative director, saying "....that doesnt mean it wont show up on other systems" when asked if there was a possibility of it coming out for PS3.

 

[iamshadowlark]

They revealed most of the Vita's specs when they unveiled it. It probably won't be like the ps3, but they're not going to be like nintendo.

Oh yea I didn't doubt that.

I see no reason why MS or Sony would be shy to release Orbis and Durango's specs. Unless they go the Wii/Wii U route, that is.

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of they don't wanna bore people with numbers this time around. Looking back to 05, a good 70% of the presentation was kind of technical.

 

[Reiko]

Oh yea I didn't doubt that.


Well, I was thinking more along the lines of they don't wanna bore people with numbers this time around. Looking back to 05, a good 70% of the presentation was kind of technical.

That's part of the fun.

Way better than hyperbole like Toy Story graphics and launching missiles.

 

[RaijinFY]

As for ram, I hope Sony don't just slap another separate bank of ram in at the last minute, it really needs to be integrated. But if they have made changes then i guess fast GDDR5 is out of the question for both machines due to board complexity? Unless they go for 1-2GB of that plus a bunch of slower ram for OS and cache.

Well if they go with an APU only machine, i dont know how they could do a separate ram pool like the PS3. It's either unified or nothing.
They didnt have any choice with the PS3 because they went so late to get an nvidia solution they had to take the chip and its associated with it.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Neither company can afford to break the bank other next machine. Sony, because they have financial pressures generally. MS, because the entertainment division doesn't make a huge amount of money and so massive investment/losses MIT not be signed off. Just because the overall company is highly profitable doesn't mean they are in an easier situation

I don't really agree with that assessment. Over the course of the whole generation, Microsoft's Xbox division has clearly been focused on profitability, what with the paid online service (which, lest we forget, has successfully gone up in price when almost everyone suggested that they should drop the subscription model altogether) and very few price adjustments, when there easily could've been more, accompanied by a larger cut of the market share. Despite the fiasco that was RRoD and the costs it has incurred, they've done a good job proving the higher-ups that a large investment in that area can pay off. Besides, Xbox is still the driving force behind one of Microsoft's most important products going forward, and that, of course, is Live.

Sony, on the other hand, have gone for larger market penetration, sacrificing profitability in the process (they had to in order to remain competitive, owing to a number of misjudgments made in the planning stage). It's quite obvious that the Durango project is in a much better financial position, not only compared to Orbis, but also the previous Xbox consoles. That said, I don't think Microsoft's current Xbox people are as stupid as to break the bank on it - that didn't work for them with the original Xbox, and it didn't work for Sony with the PS3.

And MS are potentially more likely to be distracted by trying to own the living room too quickly, or pushing a windows 8 agenda rather than focusing on gaming and let the rest come naturally which IMO Sony are more likely to do.

I'd say Sony is just as likely to use Orbis to push a company-wide agenda. They're certainly not strangers to that concept, and this generation they did it twice - first with Blu-ray, and then with 3D (also with UMD and Memory Stick, if you lump handhelds together with home consoles). In fact, it was Microsoft who had the more organic approach with the 360, concentrating on core games first, and spreading out in later stages of the product's life. Sony, on the other hand, has been aggressively pushing the PS3 as an all-in-one machine from the outset (not unlike their handhelds, although the message has been somewhat toned down with Vita), getting some flak for it around the launch (from the press, not from certain consumers who simply loved additional features when they were called "multimedia", yet they seemingly fear them now that they're referred to as "entertainment").

Both companies have new management in place so the steps they take may be very different to what's happened before, but that remains to be seen.

 

[Proxy]

How much money did Microsoft have to set aside because of the 360's failure rate? A billion? Add that to the money they spent getting into the console business and has the Xbox actually made them money yet?

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

How much money did Microsoft have to set aside because of the 360's failure rate? A billion? Add that to the money they spent getting into the console business and has the Xbox actually made them money yet?

Xbox as a whole, no, the original Xbox was a sinkhole. Xbox 360 alone, they've broken even and likely made some money by now.

 

[thuway]

The only chance for Sony to release a significantly underpowered PS4 compared to the 720 has already passed. Weaker specs, low price and a early release "yesterday" could have been a valid strategy - but head on head launch and being number 3 in power, time and cost (since MS can nearly match any price Sony comes up with) sounds like they want to go out of business.

It makes no sense. A company who is blatantly posturing itself behind the hardcore gamer (Sony, Kaz Hirai's "focus" for the company) would not release an underpowered machine.

 

[SToRM]

While it is nice for hardcore gamers to have the most powerful console, I cannot remember a single generation where having the most powerful console has been a good thing to actually "win" the generation. The Xbox 1, N64, PS3 and PSP all lost from weaker (and cheaper) competitors. The only benefit is better looking exclusives.

 

[McHuj]

While it is nice for hardcore gamers to have the most powerful console, I cannot remember a single generation where having the most powerful console has been a good thing to actually "win" the generation. The Xbox 1, N64, PS3 and PSP all lost from weaker (and cheaper) competitors. The only benefit is better looking exclusives.

In the case of the XBox and N64, they both came out a year later then the competition. Even PS3 did as well, but this gen isn't isn't over yet. If anything,I read that you shouldn't ship a year late.

 

[Massa]

Sony, on the other hand, have gone for larger market penetration, sacrificing profitability in the process (they had to in order to remain competitive, owing to a number of misjudgments made in the planning stage).

This is just not true. Sony and Microsoft have both focused on profitability, with Sony being more aggressive in price in NA and Microsot being more aggressive in Europe.

 

[thuway]

In the case of the XBox and N64, they both came out a year later then the competition. Even PS3 did as well, but this gen isn't isn't over yet. If anything,I read that you shouldn't ship a year late.

Correct. Also if we factor in Nintendo using cartridge based games and having lost the lion's share of third party titles, and the Xbox releasing with virtually zero fanfare and history- it becomes pitifully obvious power wasn't the issue for their sales folly.

 

[z0m3le]

In the case of the XBox and N64, they both came out a year later then the competition. Even PS3 did as well, but this gen isn't isn't over yet. If anything,I read that you shouldn't ship a year late.

The PSP launched within weeks of the DS, though Sony had a harder time bringing the platform worldwide, they still managed to release the console well before DS took off (DS sales were really slow until the DSlite)

 

[SToRM]

In the case of the XBox and N64, they both came out a year later then the competition. Even PS3 did as well, but this gen isn't isn't over yet. If anything,I read that you shouldn't ship a year late.

The Wii launched later than the 360 and around the same time as the PS3 and still managed to outsell them both by quite a big margin.
As long as the PS4 has a good power/price ratio and if they can keep the costs and learning curve for developing relatively low they will be fine.

 

[Zaventem]

Nintendo has a better history with handhelds though.Something would have to really fuck up to get it in a ps3 situation.

 

[thuway]

Nintendo has a better history with handhelds though.Something would have to really fuck up to get it in a ps3 situation.

Despite what people may suggest the 3DS is a disappointment. The Vita is a failure at best, but lets not pretend the 3DS situation is eons better. Both are making their way into irrelevance.

 

[z0m3le]

Nintendo has a better history with handhelds though.Something would have to really fuck up to get it in a ps3 situation.

I think that answer is far too simple, PSP could have taken off and beat out the DS. The problem was that the DS was more interesting as a gaming device (thanks in large part to it's library)

PS4 and XB3 will not be clones or twins, because Sony and Microsoft are very different companies, though their software might in large part be the same, the services and hardware will be as different as this last gen. In part because, Microsoft would want it to be so.

Despite what people may suggest the 3DS is a disappointment. The Vita is a failure at best, but lets not pretend the 3DS situation is eons better. Both are making their way into irrelevance.

It is, there is something like 8 times as many 3DS units in the wild than PSV. PSV had a huge drop in price over black friday with bundled games valuing twice what the sales price was, yet it couldn't even reach half of 3DS's sales. I just don't understand how 24 million 3DS units is some how a failure? it might not be what the DS was, but it's clearly a successful platform.

sorry about going off topic but those devices can't even be compared.

 

[Vol5]

Sony have historically had a 'Playstation Meeting' to announce a new console. I think this will be Q1 2013 for sure if they plan a Japan Xmas 2013 / Rest of world early 2014 release. But honestly, if it comes after the 720 and is perceived to be weaker, Sony will have an uphill battle to beat the current 360 holders / Live crowd for mind share.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

This is just not true. Sony and Microsoft have both focused on profitability, with Sony being more aggressive in price in NA and Microsot being more aggressive in Europe.

Really now? Sony's been losing more money per console since the very beginning, that's a very well known fact, and yet they dropped the price twice in PS3's first year, globally. That made the main PS3 SKU's price $399, down from $599 (the 20 GB $499 model was always rare and it mainly existed so that Sony could say that they had a $499 console; it was discontinued after just two quarters on the market). Sony's been more aggressive in pricing for the whole duration of the generation, globally, and they only started making profit recently (quarterly profit, that is, PS3 will probably never cover its huge initial losses).

This kind of revisionism would be funny it it wasn't a bit worrying.

 

[Massa]

Really now? Sony's been losing more money per console since the very beginning, that's a very well known fact, and yet they dropped the price twice in PS3's first year, globally. That made the main PS3 SKU's price $399, down from $599 (the 20 GB $499 model was always rare and it mainly existed so that Sony could say that they had a $499 console; it was discontinued after just two quarters on the market). Sony's been more aggressive in pricing for the whole duration of the generation, globally, and they only started making profit recently (quarterly profit, that is, PS3 will probably never cover its huge initial losses).

This kind of revisionism would be funny it it wasn't a bit worrying.

If you have forgotten already Sony is the company that had everyone from CEO's to developers crying out publicly for a price drop, even threatening to drop support for the system if they didn't.

That's just the facts.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

If you have forgotten already Sony is the company that had everyone from CEO's to developers crying out publicly for a price drop, even threatening to drop support for the system if they didn't.

That's just the facts.

Which is exactly what I said - Sony's been concentrating on market adoption instead of profitability because they had to do that in order to remain competitive.

 

[NemesisPrime]

Which is exactly what I said - Sony's been concentrating on market adoption instead of profitability because they had to do that in order to remain competitive.

QFT.

Also a lot of first party output is also because Sony did not have a lot of third party support and the only way they could "differentiate" is by developing a lot of stuff themselves (and that seems to have worked to a certain degree).

 

[Log4Girlz]

Despite what people may suggest the 3DS is a disappointment. The Vita is a failure at best, but lets not pretend the 3DS situation is eons better. Both are making their way into irrelevance.

The 3DS is eons better.

 

[onQ123]

Despite what people may suggest the 3DS is a disappointment. The Vita is a failure at best, but lets not pretend the 3DS situation is eons better. Both are making their way into irrelevance.

3DS is doing good 24 million in 2 years (I think) I'm not sure how that can be bad or irrelevant. the US isn't the whole world.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Unless they're using mobile SoCs ala Apple (<10W), I'm not sure what your point is or what the relevance is to consoles.

OK lets look at 28nm.

The technology is available in super low-power (SLP), high performance-plus (HPP) and low power, high performance (LPH) technology offerings, to cater to the complex requirements of next-generation SoC's.

The 28nm technologies are based on bulk silicon substrates, and are designed for a wide variety of applications from high performance such as graphics and wired networking to mobile computing and digital consumer to low power wireless mobile applications that require long battery lifetime.

All three SLP, HPP and LPH utilize high k metal gate (HKMG) technology for superior control of the channel with high on currents and low leakage current. Scheduled for risk production after the ramp of 32nm, 28nm is the second technology for high volume production at GLOBALFOUNDRIES that utilizes HKMG.

In the chart above, cost goes up with higher performance silicon in three steps with PS3 game console CPU speeds (3Ghz) on the border of LPH and HPP. Next generation PS4 Jaguar clock will be 1.6Ghz with a 2.4 Ghz turbo so that places it in the middle of Low Power. @ 20nm it would likely be Super Low Power = cheapest and most popular supported by both TSMC and GlFlo; 20nm will be used for multiple refreshes with only the transistors changing not the "back plane", wiring stays at 20nm = Apple SoC @20nm but without worrying about battery life can be driven harder up to the allowable TDP ~= 50W which is half the Current PS3 at max and what's speculated in the leaked Xbox 720 powerpoint for 8X Xbox 360 and was also either 22nm SOI (FD-SOI) or 28nm G=LPH. 20nm Low Power designs scale with little change to 20nm FD-SOI and it would then be possible to include BC at little additional cost beyond IBM PPC IP costs and Yield issues. A Linkedin cite has work on SPE registers at 22nm not 28/32nm and there is a Multi-Processor Architecture PPUSPU (Sony patent).

Back to 28nm: Have you considered who will make next generation? IF @ 28nm then the designs can not be shared between TSMC and GloFlo. Are you assuming only one Fab will be getting all the work for Xbox3 and PS4? What about TSVs; I have found GloFlo only supporting 20nm TSVs not 28nm in articles. So no TSVs and no ultrawide memory? Pads only around the outside of the chip?

Globalfoundries said Thursday that it had begun to install a special set of production tools to create through-silicon vias (TSVs) in semiconductor wafers processed on the company's leading-edge 20nm technology platform at Fab 8. The TSV capabilities will allow customers to stack multiple chips on top of each other, providing another avenue for delivering the demanding requirements of future electronic devices.

Globalfoundries' new Fab 8 campus stands as one of the most technologically advanced wafer fabs in the world and the largest leading-edge semiconductor foundry in the United States. The site is focused on leading-edge manufacturing at 32/28nm and below, with 20nm technology development well underway. The first full-flow silicon with TSVs is expected to start running at Fab 8 in Q3 2012.

There is a rumor that the first run of Thebe chips happened at the end of Q2.

Assuming a late 2013 launch, they would have the design finished by now, and are producing early silicon to check up on yields; as fixed designs, they can't rely on binning, so it does them no good if they have a bunch of functioning chips that need to be thrown out because they don't meet TDP requirements at a target clock speed.

You are double assuming given an assumption of a 2013 launch that it should have a finished design by early 2012, correct? The design choices and roadmap occurred much earlier with simulated Jaguar CPUs and final GPU which would be either 8000 or more likely a 9000 series full HSA GPU. This is necessary to prove the design. Test runs of individual components (building blocks) AMD is going to use for other projects have been forged on test wafers for years (sometime after 2008 for 28nm and 20nm). Development for 20nm was by industry agreement delayed 3 years by all except Intel just as OpenMax 1.2 was delayed 3 years for no reason from 2008 to 2011. Isn't next generation over due and by how long?

AMD - Sony - Microsoft have been planning next generation since 2010 (Linkedin cites) with AMD since 2007 planning their building block 3D stacking 20nm full HSA. My assumption is that the Sony CTO article mentioning TSVs and another Sony CTO saying essential the same means they targeted when stacked memory and TSVs would be used.

http://www.i-micronews.com/upload/3DPackaging/AC_3D Packaging_August2012_Web.pdf

Sony&#8217;s next game station logic- on-interposer will reportedly similarly be fabbed by Global Foundries, and packaged by a collaborating OSAT (probably ASE, StatsChipPAC, SPIL or again Amkor).

and GF appears to only support 20nm for TSVs. At 20nm TSMC and GloFlo can produce the PS4. Techniques for testing and standards for carriers and thinning as well as packaging don't scale well; I.E. from 28 to 20nm and is another reason the industry is staying with a 20nm plane for the next three to 4 years.

And yes this is highly speculative as 28nm is the safe bet as a mature process and everyone is assuming 28nm. I don't like being the only one, or one of two, who are considered crazy but it fits and could be possible. Over the next 5 years there will be 600 million NEW "connected" homes which equates to 5X the last generation game console volume. If you produce at 28nm a complete redesign including transposer and pad alignment is required for 20nm. A 20nm design can keep the same pad and transposer for the next three refreshes with each successive refresh for transistors allowing for less power and wast heat till fanless, in what 2 years, and possible to include in TVs and other CE equipment.

Sony did not "refresh" the PS3 @ 32/28 as it was probably not cost effective but we assume next generation would be cost effective at 28nm? There is also the possibility that a 20nm PS4 with BC will be cheap enough to replace the PS3 pricepoint even with a shrink (XDR and DDR3 would be getting expensive) and having to support two hardware lines a cost not needed.

 

[z0m3le]

Sony have historically had a 'Playstation Meeting' to announce a new console. I think this will be Q1 2013 for sure if they plan a Japan Xmas 2013 / Rest of world early 2014 release. But honestly, if it comes after the 720 and is perceived to be weaker, Sony will have an uphill battle to beat the current 360 holders / Live crowd for mind share.

This is what I'm worried about, from the rumors, it's indeed different. If XB3 has already become the lead sku on these games, then it's going to be pretty hard to hold the market share it had this last gen.

3DS is doing good 24 million in 2 years (I think) I'm not sure how that can be bad or irrelevant. the US isn't the whole world.

Heck it hasn't even been 2 years yet. It's doing fine though won't hit DS numbers (you know the gaming device that has sold better than any other gaming device)

 

[Massa]

Which is exactly what I said - Sony's been concentrating on market adoption instead of profitability because they had to do that in order to remain competitive.

So after months of incredibly poor sales with a price cut long overdue Sony still decides to wait until they can do it in a profitable manner, with a new, cheaper system, and what you get from that is that they weren't focusing on profitability?

Ok then. We'll have to disagree on this one.

 

[NemesisPrime]

So after months of incredibly poor sales with a price cut long overdue Sony still decides to wait until they can do it in a profitable manner, with a new, cheaper system, and what you get from that is that they weren't focusing on profitability?

Ok then. We'll have to disagree on this one.

Except they didn't wait... they had price cuts.

 

[Massa]

Except they didn't wait... they had price cuts.

The PS3 price cuts were accompanied by hardware revisions that were also much cheaper to manufacture. Even when it was clearly hurting them to wait for a revision, like in the late 2008/early 2009 period, they waited anyway.

 

[mrklaw]

Xbox as a whole, no, the original Xbox was a sinkhole. Xbox 360 alone, they've broken even and likely made some money by now.

Made some money compared to how much investment? The ROI is probably incredibly low compared to other areas in the company. That was the point I was trying to make (perhaps badly). If they are profit focused, invest billions and for only a minor return, the company as a whole may not want to continue that.

I'm sure they will, I'm just trying to provide an alternate angle to the usual 'Sony can't afford a ps4'.

 

[Monas]

Next gen will be very tricky for the console business and the VG industry as a whole.
The main problem is the escalating issue of developing costs for the games and the casual/mobile competition.
Sony or MS could make a machine with 8GB and Radeon Dual Graphics, but that does not mean they should. The economy can't handle the developing budget right now. The optimization for this kind of thing will take time and money.
So they will be more grounded this time. They will go for efficiency rather than raw power. The ideal is to make more with less.
Unless they spend much-much more on tools, than this gen, and optimizing the developing flow.

 

[Tears For Fears]

Sony is bleeding money from every orfice. They have every right to be conservative. MS doesn't have this problem, they just want to win the battle for the living room.

 

[Shikoro]

Sony is bleeding money from every orfice. They have every right to be conservative. MS doesn't have this problem, they just want to win the battle for the living room.

Wow, hyperbole much?

 

[z0m3le]

Wow, hyperbole much?

Bob ross, Painting with broad strokes

 

[Zabka]

There's no hyperbole when it comes to how bad Sony is doing. They lost something like $6 billion last year. MS had $6 billion in operating income in the last quarter.

 

[Tears For Fears]

Wow, hyperbole much?

Ignorance is no excuse to refuse what is fact.

 

[mrklaw]

Sony is bleeding money from every orfice. They have every right to be conservative. MS doesn't have this problem, they just want to win the battle for the living room.

a wounded animal is a dangerous one. If you're in a hole, you may want to double down on one of the few profitable areas of your business. Plus all the R&D cost is pretty much sunk now, you might as well release it (depending how much of a loss you're willing to take up front)

and like I said, just because MS as a whole is profitable, doesn't mean the xbox team gets a blank cheque to fuck about with

 

[Chuck Norris]

There's no hyperbole when it comes to how bad Sony is doing. They lost something like $6 billion last year. MS had $6 billion in operating income in the last quarter.

No they didn't

 

[AranhaHunter]

Really now? Sony's been losing more money per console since the very beginning, that's a very well known fact, and yet they dropped the price twice in PS3's first year, globally. That made the main PS3 SKU's price $399, down from $599 (the 20 GB $499 model was always rare and it mainly existed so that Sony could say that they had a $499 console; it was discontinued after just two quarters on the market). Sony's been more aggressive in pricing for the whole duration of the generation, globally, and they only started making profit recently (quarterly profit, that is, PS3 will probably never cover its huge initial losses).

This kind of revisionism would be funny it it wasn't a bit worrying.

I think they only dropped the price once in the first year unless you are counting each SKU drop, which would be weird ($599 to $499 for the 60-80GB and $499 - $399 for the 20-40GB SKU). I don't think they hit $299 until 2009 and then $249 in 2011 IIRC and that's where we stand now.

Anyways, I have a feeling that they are pretty profitable on their 2 SKUs ($279 for the 250GB bundle and $299 for the 500GB bundle). I'm guessing the price to make the PS3, with shipping, etc included is probably below $199, my guess is around $170-$180 right now, so they're making a pretty penny on each console sold. Everyone thought they would drop the price this year for the holiday, and they did the opposite, but I'm guessing with the PS4 virtually a lock for Fall 2013 (unfortunately) now and with the major 1st/2nd party (GOW, TLOU, Beyond) and 3rd party (GTAV, Bioshock Infinite, Dead Space 3, MGS:R) games hitting in the spring that they will need to drop the price early in the year, possibly february or march. The only major game without a set release date is MGSV/GZ/PP/whatever. What's everyone's guess as for the price drop and what kind of bundles they will have?

My guess is price drop to $199/$249 for the 250/500GB SKUS, possibly $169 if they introduce the 12GB in the US. Similar price drops in EU/JP. I'm guessing 250GB and below will be core (i.e. no games bundled) and 500GB will always be bundled with games, top choices for bundles are GOW:A, Bioshock Infinite, TLOU, GTAV, maybe Beyond.

Also, for fun, guesses on Sony's studios and what they're doing for PS4 with guesses on release dates.

- GG team 1 - WRPG fantasy IP. Probably 2015.
- GG team 2 - Killzone 4 for PS4. Launch window game, Fall 2013 to mid 2014.
- MM non tearway team - New creative IP doing whatever the hell it does, Fall 2014 at the earliest
- ND team 1 - Finishing up TLOU and then working on DLC while some of the team starts working on TLOU2 or a new IP for PS4 which will be a 2015 title.
- ND team 2 - Uncharted 4 or new IP Mid/Fall 2014.
- SSM team 1 - Stig's team. New FPS IP. I have a feeling that their involvement in starhawk was really to test out vehicles for this IP. Launch title, Fall 2013.
- SSM team 2 - Finishing up GOW:A then work on DLC for it while part of the team starts working on GOW4 for PS4. Probably 2015.
- Sony Bend - no ps4 games, unfortunately. Either Uncharted GA2 or Syphon Filter game for psv
- SP team 1 - Rumored to be 2 teams, so team 1 working on new IP for PS4's launch, Fall 2013.
- SP team 2 - infamous 3 for ps4. Mid 2015.
- PD - should have been 2 teams as well, but they're not. GT6P for PS4 launch, GT6 release Fall 2014/Mid 2015.
- SCEJ - Finishing Rain and Puppeteer for PS3. Ideally they would have some JRPGs cooking, new IPs, Dark Cloud, LoD, etc, but can't expect much from them, just some more patapons and locoroccos. Or maybe The Last Guardian in 2017.
- Sony San Diego - Finishing MLB 13 for ps3/psv and working on next generation engine for ps4. MLB14 will be on ps4/3/v in March '14.
- SCE London - more casual stuff. Home, Singstar, Buz ps4
- SCE Cambridge - Finish Killzone mercenary for vita after that, help out the other teams
- Evolution - My guess is wipeout PS4 for launch, Fall 2013.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

There's no hyperbole when it comes to how bad Sony is doing. They lost something like $6 billion last year. MS had $6 billion in operating income in the last quarter.

I already explained this earlier and someone said it above but when gaming is one of your few bright spots as a company, you don't scale it back, you double down. Just like they're doing with their other bright spots (like imaging).

 

[SPDIF]

No they didn't

Close enough. $5.31 Billion

Unless you were talking about Sony. I'm not sure

 

[NemesisPrime]

I'm guessing the price to make the PS3, with shipping, etc included is probably below $199, my guess is around $170-$180 right now, so they're making a pretty penny on each console sold

Your guess is almost certainly very wrong. They have gone down massily but the high yen is still an issue. I am sure they make some money now on PS3, but not a lot.